Mac Pro and Woodcrest: Confirmed?

[JFreak]

I bet the the Quad G5 will retain their value for awhile.

Yes, it will. Given that many pro apps are still not Universal, and that many times first ported version is somewhat buggy, the PPC hardware running native PPC software will become very valuable during the next 12ish months.

Why does it seem that about 105% of Mac-users are Photoshop-users as well (I bet that PhotoShop-users are in fact in the minority)?

Because 105% of Mac-users have bought Photoshop Elements bundled with a digital camera. 95% of those never bother to upgrade to full version and 82% of those never use the software anyway. Oh, and 67% of statistics are made on spot 😉

 

[Mord]

your all looking at the server specs which have no need for more than 8x pci-e, if that.

 

[JFreak]

Well, the Mini got more expensive, but it's capabilities went WAY up. Optical audio in and out, twice the USB-ports (fixing the two biggest complaints about the old Mini)

Way, costs about $1 for Apple to fix it. Great!

... built-in wireless, about twice as fast CPU and Core Image compliant video.

You cannot put a price tag for components such as CPU and GPU that get updated with every single hardware revision. Yes, in time they become more capable with every revision, but the relative price of such components does not change that much. The built-in wireless on the other hand is something of extra value; however, Apple cuts its own costs of eliminating an option, so it should not cost the customer that much extra.

Comparing price and capabilities, The Mini just got a whole lot cheaper 🙂. The low-end Mini costs the same as the old hi-end Mini, but the new low-end Mini is a lot better than the old hi-end Mini.

You should compare dollars to dollars when you say one is cheaper than another. You buy items with dollars and that's it. You look at the numbers and say that smaller value is cheaper. Didn't your mother teach you that?

your all looking at the server specs which have no need for more than 8x pci-e, if that.

At what point servers began to demand less than workstations or regular desktops? Server-grade hardware (SCSI cards for example) are 8x pcie, so I expect nothing less from Apple server hardware. Anything less would be a joke.

 

[Evangelion]

...not to mention: non-apple pro apps - waiting.

There are already such apps (Modo from Luxology for example). Just because Photoshop is not universal does not mean that nothing is.

 

[Mord]

At what point servers began to demand less than workstations or regular desktops? Server-grade hardware (SCSI cards for example) are 8x pcie, so I expect nothing less from Apple server hardware. Anything less would be a joke.

i meant for graphics.

oh and stop with the quadruple posting, you can reply and open the thread in another tab and copy quotes across to multi quote, or just learn the quoting syntax and use one window

as for why mac users use photoshop it's because the competitors suck, gimp is ok but nothing more, corel products make me want to pull my hair out and don't talk to me about fireworks is a completely different product.

 

[MacQuest]

Haven't read through all the posts, but I've always believed and said [since Intel's unveiling of it's Core line-up roadmap a few months ago, even before re-naming it Core 2] that Woodcrest would be used in Mac Pros.

CONROE WILL BE USED IN A NEW LINE OF CONSUMER TARGETED [gamers and people who like the option of being able to upgrade, even if they probably won't] MAC TOWERS. Go ahead, let the "this is just another headless iMac rumor again" flame-fest start 🙄. IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A SCREEN BUILT IN TO AN ALL IN ONE DESIGN, IT'S NOT AN IMAC DAMNIT!!! 😡

"Mac [whatever]", or maybe just "Mac", will probably have 1-2 models in the $1000 - $1500 range. If there's 3 models, which I doubt because they'll probably want to keep a $500 price difference between this and the lowest Mac Pro model @ $2000 [assuming Apple keeps the current pricing of the PowerMac line-up], it'll be a $1000 - $1700 range. These might sport the same aluminim alloy enclosure as the Mac Pro, but I'm betting that they'll use a different material, and possibly form-factor all-together to further distinguish this consumer tower line from the Mac Pro line.

I would really like to see a consumer priced, Conroe powered Mac tower [maybe it'll be a mini tower] with the same black finish as the current black MacBook.

That would be cool because then we would have 3 consumer Macs [not including the MacBooks]; 2 in white, the Mac mini [yes, I'm aware that it has a silver trim 🙄] and the iMac, and 1 in black [this new Mac consumer tower]. Maybe they'll offer it in white too... as long as the white doesn't turn yellow as reported with the white MacBooks [which has already been resolved], that would be cool too, but I doubt this option... but maybe. 😛

Oh the possibilities!!! 😀

EDIT:
Just read the AppleInsider article and saw this:
"The new systems, which will succeed the Power Mac G5 at the forefront of the company's product matrix, will also be available in a single processor configuration for a substantially reduced cost..."

The key part of that statement is "available in a single processor configuration for a substantially reduced cost". I'll bet that THAT will be the consumer priced, Conroe powered tower that I'm talking about, will NOT be Woodcrest powered, and won't be called Mac Pro [possibly Mac Pro mini, but I don't quite think so], as they won't be "Pro" class workstations powered by Intel's server class chips.

Just my 2 cents... 😉

 

[steve_hill4]

they'll be priced about in line with comparable systems. but that ain't cheap. I priced a dell precision workstation with dual xeon 5160 (3ghz woodcrest), 4GB 533 mhz DDR2 FB-DIMM RAM (apple may just use 667, only $50 more for the 4 gigs) , 2x500GB SATA 3gbps HD, 512mb Quadro FX 4500, no monitor, speakers etc. and it came out to just shy of $7800.

I then went on the apple store site, built a PM G5 quad with 4GB ECC 533mhz DDR2 SDRAM (4x1gb) which is not as expensive as FBDIMM memory, 2x500GB Sata HDDs (but i think sata 1.5gbps not 3.0), quadro FX 4500, and so on and it came out to a tad over $7000, just shy of $7300 when you add applecare in, since the dell workstation has an included 3 year plan.

See a huge price difference between your systems here and what stock Mac Pros will include. Almost certainly they will contain a single gig of ram, 256MB graphics and maybe a 300GB HDD. All you described will still be BTO.

As for Woodcrest, I was speaking to our Apple rep yesterday and he seemed in agreeance that they would have at least one quad, meaning Woodcrest, (he doesn't have access to official information, but seemed to agree he would be surprised if anything else was in the top end). Apple have also recently placed orders with Intel in preperation for WWDC, (which he seemed to confirm Apple will release the Mac Pro then, as if we were ever in doubt).

My predictions will be as follows:

MacBook - sticks with Yonah until probably MWSF, speed bumps in time for Christmas.

MacBook Pro - Merom as soon as possible, possibly WWDC.

Mac Mini - Yonah for now, Merom once iMac has been updated with new processors. Try to maintain sales as long as possible on cheaper chips.

iMac - Conroe. I know people will say heat, noise etc, but if Apple can do it for a similar price and similar style to the G5, they must do.

Mac xPress - Just put that name for fun, but not sure what it would be called. Conroe anyway and system is cheaper, smaller, lower spec Mac. Pretty much a headless iMac, maybe slightly higher spec for slightly lower price, (no display remember), maybe even a model starting just above the Mini in price. True cube replacement. Look out for it possibly at MWSF.

Mac Pro - Woodcrest in both single and double processors. Conroe would offer similar performance for the singles, but not sure if Apple would mix like that. Possibly dual socket motherboard in all, but single processor allowing later upgrade. WWDC announces G5 PowerMac available until 2nd half 2007 in limited supplies, (for those using apps not yet universal/still a mixture os OSX and classic).

xServe - Woodcrest. Nothing more to be said.

 

[steve_hill4]

just wondering, have you not seen my posts on the dell workstation? that has dual woodcrests, and, be still my heart 16X PCI EXPRESS! 🙂 That's how it has the quadro FX 4500 video card. And you can even get a version that has a riser for a 2nd PCI-Express 16X slot so you can have 2x the Quadro 4500!

Also, According to the articles on the appleinsider site, apple has had INTEL doing the logic board.

Exactly, the logic board will not be available off the shelf, so we don't know what will be on it yet.

Oh and if I'm not mistaken, isn't this a motherboard for Woodcrest that supports PCI express 16x?

http://www.iwill.net/product_2.asp?p_id=109

 

[steve_hill4]

Because 105% of Mac-users have bought Photoshop Elements bundled with a digital camera. 95% of those never bother to upgrade to full version and 82% of those never use the software anyway. Oh, and 67% of statistics are made on spot 😉

I thought it was 88.2%?

😉

Actually from a Guinness ad, which also stated men think of sex every 6 seconds, before cutting to a revolving pint glass, with a half second flash of a woman in lingerie about half way through.

 

[Glen Quagmire]

Where's the "Mac OS Rumors" option? (http://macosrumors.com/20060710B1.php)

They are still labouring under the illusion that Woodcrest will be quad core. A cursory glance at Intel's literature or on the web will reveal that Woody is a dual-core beast, nothing more.

(Disclaimer: I read MOR for entertainment, not for real news.)

Anyway, I'll take a 2.67Ghz (or more) dual-dual Mac Pro, please. In black.

 

[aswitcher]

I really hope they are right about a the low cost single chip version so we can make good home multimedia center.

 

[Evangelion]

Because 105% of Mac-users have bought Photoshop Elements bundled with a digital camera.

I have a digital camera, yet it didn't come with Photoshop Elements. Strange huh?

 

[Mord]

my scanner came with photoshop 5.

 

[tristan]

Spooky - I predicted this. Me and everyone else except a couple naysayers. I only buy laptops though, so I'm not really the target market. But I think this will be on every graphic designers desk by Xmas. Go Apple and Intel!

 

[Evangelion]

Way, costs about $1 for Apple to fix it. Great!

So what?

You cannot put a price tag for components such as CPU and GPU that get updated with every single hardware revision. Yes, in time they become more capable with every revision, but the relative price of such components does not change that much.

So you are saying that dual-core Core Due CPU costs Apple about as much as the G4 did? back when Mini had G4, the CPU was bottom of the barrel, with prices to match. The Core Duo (or solo for that matter) are actually very good CPU's and they do cost more than the G4 did. SO-DIMM is also more expenside than regural DDR-SDRAM is.

The built-in wireless on the other hand is something of extra value; however, Apple cuts its own costs of eliminating an option, so it should not cost the customer that much extra.

Why not? The customer receives more, why shouldn't he pay more for it? "because it doesn't cost that much more to the company!" Well boo-hoo! I bet that a car with 2-liter engine doesn't REALLY cost that much more to make than similar car with 1.6-liter engine, yet we have to pay more for the bigger engine. By your logic they should cost the same?

And how about the remote?

You should compare dollars to dollars when you say one is cheaper than another. You buy items with dollars and that's it. You look at the numbers and say that smaller value is cheaper. Didn't your mother teach you that?

OK, compare the prices then. You will see that you could buy a Mac Mini for $599 back then. And guess what? You can buy a Mac Mini for $599 even today! True, you can't get one for $499, but at this point I feel compelled to ask: So what? Since when did Macs become the rock-bottom computers with prices to match?

Hell, I have been watching some old Stevenotes recently. And I remember him introducing PowerMacs with prices starting at $1499. Why aren't we whining because PowerMacs are more expensive today?

 

[TangoCharlie]

Merom for iMac

Xeon! Conroe (Core 2 Duo)is going in the iMac

No, I believe Apple will pop the Core 2 Duo Merom into the iMac. It's supposedly a drop-in replacement for the current Core Duo processor the iMac currently uses.

Additionally, the Edu-iMac won't be upgraded for a while yet, so that when the new Merom iMac _is_ released (WWDC), there will be a bigger difference between the Edu-iMac and the full iMac.

I'm _sure_ that Apple has a surpise for us wrt the Conroe /Conroe XE CPU.... a nice smallish desktop Mac (we can hope, can't we?) 😎

 

[aswitcher]

I'm _sure_ that Apple has a surpise for us wrt the Conroe /Conroe XE CPU.... a nice smallish desktop Mac (we can hope, can't we?) 😎

And if they back it up fully with software features in Leopard and iLife07, Macs should leap ahead as multimedia machines...dedicated processor for video to avoid any missed frames recordings or playing.

 

[mi5moav]

Hmmm, I hope they change the moniker XEON just brings up old conotations. Though I hope the Xserve waits for Kentsfield or at least for SOSSA MAN.

 

[Manic Mouse]

No, I believe Apple will pop the Core 2 Duo Merom into the iMac. It's supposedly a drop-in replacement for the current Core Duo processor the iMac currently uses.

This will not be an option for Apple. They no longer live in the PPC world, now people can directly compare the specs on any Mac to the specs DELL or other PC vendors are offering.

The iMac is Apple's desktop computer, and currently the only one they offer. As such they will have to spec it as a desktop computer as much as humanly possible, and having a slower CORE 2 Duo than their competitors (when iMacs cost more) will not do them any favours.

Also bear in mind that Conroes are cheaper for apple to buy than Meroms, as well as offering faster clock speeds and more performance. So it wouldn't cost Apple much more, per machine, to put a 2.4Ghz conroe in rather than a 2.0Ghz merom.

The heat issue is also a non-starter. I have a laptop with a 3.2Ghz Pentium 4 in it, which runs a hell of a lot hotter than the Conroes will. Sure it isn't the smallest laptop ever, but it's comparable in size to an iMac, if anything it's slightly thinner. Many laptop venders have said they're putting conroes in their top laptops because of the extra performance, and if they can there's no reason Apple can't fit one into the iMac.

Apple can either put Meroms in the iMac and thus make an over-priced under-performing desktop or redesign the motherboard for Conroe and have a competitive desktop. If they want to continue their recent success with the switch to Intel they cannot afford to be lazy and simply drop a merom into the iMac.

Personally I'm also hoping for the option of a BTO X1800 graphics card. At the least I expect the VRAM on the X1600 to be bumped to 256Mb on all iMacs and for the screens to get a resolution bump. The 17" will get the same screen as the 17' Macbook Pro (1650x1050) and the 20" will get a resolution bump to something closer to True HD (like the cinema displays) which is what professionals will want to work with.

First post, woo!

EDIT: My dream iMac config would be:

17" 1650x1050
2.4Ghz conroe
2Gb RAM (BTO)
750Gb HDD (BTO)
x1800 512Mb (BTO)

And I would be willing to pay quite a bit for it. Fingers crossed apple offers it...

 

[MrCrowbar]

I wish I could say "I'm getting a woodie", but I can't right now... There are people watching 😛
Serously I think we'll see woodcrest in the MacPro for sure. Apple wants to stick with the "fastest desktop computer" I think.

 

[heisetax]

Price Increase or Price Decrease?

Yeah, I hope apple lower their price point for the pro models. It is way too much. I love mac computer, but come on; the prices vs the PC suckass.

I know Macs are way better then PC, but PCs are good tool too.

Unless Apple bucks their own trend of charging more for the Intel Mac replacements over the G4/G5 units, we may be in for a rather large increase at the higher end on up. Intel processors cost more than G4/G5 processors. The high end of any processor costs a lot more than the slower ones of the same type. Does all of this add up to price decreases or price increases? As much as I would like to see a price decrease, to me that just does not add up.

Bill the TaxMan

 

[adamfilip]

i think all the new mac pro will be quad core xeons (2 chips) just range in frequency.

 

[SPUY767]

I doubt that Apple are able to charge the "normal" Mac premium after the intel transition, since it is much simpler to compare Macs with another PCs. Almost like Apple for Apple. 😉

Name another consumer workstation with a XEON Processor in it. For XEON based machines, the Apple's will be a deal, much like the XServes were the cheapest 1u you could get with the power.

 

[amac4me]

Oh yeah, these babies will fly. Looking to replace my 2004 PowerMac G5 Dual 2.5

Bring it on 😀

 

[MacQuest]

I think AppleInsider is slightly wrong on this.

Mac mini:
- Apple will probably keep 32-bit Yonah chips in the Mac mini at least until 10.5 ships, but probably until MacWorld '07, AND drop the prices back down to $499 and $699 once Merom comes out in the next couple of months. This will spur Mac mini sales for the holiday season. At MacWorld [or maybe slightly before MW, during the holiday season if Merom chips get a price drop by then], the Mac mini will get Merom to take full advantage of 10.5 and slaughter the windows media center market and reign supreme in the media hub capacity [come on Apple, at least give it TV viewing capabilities even if you're not gonna give it PVR functionality because that may screw up the iMovie Video store that you're gonna announce with the vPod by Apple Expo Paris in September 😉]. Everybody's "gonna NEED 64-bit" by then... 🙄... even though they really won't and don't even know why they would need it, other than because of the fact that it exists.

MacBook
- Like the Mac mini, the MacBook will keep Yonah only until 10.5 ships, but probably until MacWorld '07.

I think MacWorld will be SJ's chance to say "6 months ago we completed our transition to Intel chips, a full 6 months ahead of the schedule that we had announced at WWDC in '05. During this past holiday season we shipped Mac OS X 10.5. Today we are proud to announce that ALL Macs have 64-bit Intel chips/processors and will be able to take FULL advantage of Mac OS X 10.5's features. One more thing..." [introduces the MacPad "m$ Origami" killer/PDA/tablet Mac hybrid, and the iPhone [general consumer]/MacPhone [smartphone Blackberry/Treo killer with Apple's own MVNO service, and more. 😉]

iMac
- May use Merom, but Conroe is likely after the Mac mini gets Merom late this year or at MW '07. Both the 17" & 20" will probably get stock x1800 256VRam [x1900 BTO], and the 17" will get speed bumped to at least 2.0Ghz [duh...] and the 20" will get 2.16, maybe 2.33Ghz [in which case the 17" will probably get 2.16] but I don't know if Apple will debut the 2.33 in a consumer Mac before a Pro Mac. I'll expect to see all of this right after WWDC [although the iMacs right at the 6 month mark NOW, so maybe before WWDC. Right now I think Apple's building up anticipation for it's desktops [both Pro AND consumer - see below]

"Mac [Whatever]" or just "Mac" - light-upgrader/gamer targeted, new tower [probably mini-tower, compared to Mac Pro], possibly non-aluminum enclosure to differentiate it from the Mac Pro and maybe match the consumer MacBook's enclosures [imagine one in MacBook Black or even iMac White... not so sure about one in MacBook white].
- This will be Apple's flagship Conroe powered Mac. This is why the iMac may stay with Merom, because this may be used as a distinguishing factor from the iMac. Although I believe that this towers' upgradeability option will be enough! 😀 There will probably be a an entry level with a 2.4Ghz [2.6, 2.8 BTO option] Conroe Core Duo and x1800 256VRam model around the $1000 [probably $1100, but $999 would KILL ALL of the windows desktop pc's sales] price point. An upgraded 2.6Ghz [2.8 BTO option] Conroe Core Duo model, with an x1900 256VRam GPU, larger hard drive, etc. will be at the $1500 price point [$1499].

$999 & $1399/$1499 would RULE, because we would finally have an "under $1000 tower Mac" that could compete with those sub-$1000 windows towers. We'll probably get $1099 and $1499 though, which is still GREAT, but I just wish Apple would hit that $999 mark for buyers' "psychological" reasons though.

Apple has NO need to go into the junky "$800 or less" tower trenches with it's tower Macs, and won't.

MacBook Pro
I agree with AI.

Mac Pro
I agree with AI.

Xserve
WILL NOT USE WOODCREST!!!
CORE 2 DUAL QUAD OCTA CORE MAC's starting with DUAL TIGERTON'S, later replaced with CORE 2 SINGLE OCTA CORE HARPERTOWN [obviously will be paired up to bring us a 16 CORE CORE 2 DUAL OCTA CORE HARPERTOWN, that will obviously later be replaced with 32 CORE... YES, 32 CORE!!!, DUNINGTON's...

j/k... I agree with AI. Woodcrest in Mac Pro... 😛

FUTURE OUTLOOK
Single Core 2 quad core "Kentsfield" [dual "Conroe" Core Duo's] in January. Don't know if we'll see those in the new consumer "Mac" tower though. Probably not.

However, dual Core 2 Core Quad/Quattro[?] "Tigerton's" [dual "Woodcrest" Core Quadro's/Quattros?] should bring us the first... drumroll please...

Core 2 OCTA Core Mac Pro's & Xserves in '07 though 😀

😕 ... just shoot me... 😉