Thank you. That's what happens when you check in on a forum with a 3.5" screen, while commuting.... you put your foot in your mouth, big time
I do stand by my comments if.....we were discussing a Macbook
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Mac Pro Build-to-Order Ship Dates Slip as Future Remains Uncertain
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Thank you. That's what happens when you check in on a forum with a 3.5" screen, while commuting.... you put your foot in your mouth, big time
I do stand by my comments if.....we were discussing a Macbook
Thanks for the heads up on this. You make some really really good points. Personally I am just the type of jackass that would have gone right out to buy something like this. So guidance is very much appreciated. Now I have a healthy bit of skepticism about it which is a good thing.
I'll bet you are right about the Mac Pro users having been with Apple for a long, long time.
I have always gone for the biggest, most powerful Apple computer right from the get-go.
Unfortunately, I think Apple is more of a gadget company than a computer company.
They did take the name "Computer" off of it's corporate name.
If Apple discontinues the Mac Pro, I think quite a few people will leave Apple.
Maybe there aren't enough Mac Pro users for Apple to worry about, I don't know.
Life won't be worth living.
Where art thou, Mac Pro?
On the one hand, I could see something like an enhanced Mac mini (shades of the xMac) taking the place of the Mac Pro .. however, the paradigm is that it would rely on Thunderbolt for the individualistic customization to various applications via a pile of external boxes.
External boxes .. cables ... ugh! Wasn't this why we got the iMac in the first place?
And while this does sound technically viable, let's take a case study.
What we often hear is a comparison of s a 27" iMac i7 versus a Mac Pro with Apple 27" LCD display, which works out to roughly $2000 vs $3500.
But not so fast: how much does it cost to add a couple of fast I/O drives to the iMac for those typically "Pro" level applications?
For the Mac Pro, its buy a couple of bare drives and slide them in...$300 goes a long ways.
But for the iMac, we're looking at dropping $1200 for a Promise R4.
Redoing the math: ($2000 + $1200) vs ($2500 + $1000 + 300)
= $3200 vs $3800.
So while $600 sounds pretty big, the difference had been $1500 (75% increase), and invoking just one element of product tailoring for the end application has resulted in the gap narrowing to only a 20% difference.
-hh
On the one hand, I could see something like an enhanced Mac mini (shades of the xMac) taking the place of the Mac Pro .. however, the paradigm is that it would rely on Thunderbolt for the individualistic customization to various applications via a pile of external boxes.
External boxes .. cables ... ugh! Wasn't this why we got the iMac in the first place?
And while this does sound technically viable, let's take a case study.
What we often hear is a comparison of s a 27" iMac i7 versus a Mac Pro with Apple 27" LCD display, which works out to roughly $2000 vs $3500.
But not so fast: how much does it cost to add a couple of fast I/O drives to the iMac for those typically "Pro" level applications?
For the Mac Pro, its buy a couple of bare drives and slide them in...$300 goes a long ways.
But for the iMac, we're looking at dropping $1200 for a Promise R4.
Redoing the math: ($2000 + $1200) vs ($2500 + $1000 + 300)
= $3200 vs $3800.
So while $600 sounds pretty big, the difference had been $1500 (75% increase), and invoking just one element of product tailoring for the end application has resulted in the gap narrowing to only a 20% difference.
-hh
I don't know what kind of agency your at or the work you do, so please don't take this as me talking down or anything like that. But for some of my clients we have several day renders on new MacPro's all the time.
Sure, I use a MacBookPro on the road to edit video, I did a small HD job today on one, but I have to use a MacPro if we're working with RED footage for sure. The last color correction I did on 4k footage took 16 hours or so to render on a maxed out MacPro. Our grfx guy has renders that take up most of the day on his 3d work, and even the last still photographer I worked with uses a Macbook Pro on set, but a MacPro at his office.
Yes, some job can get by on the macbook pros and Imacs, but for the really big files (and those are becoming more common) the power of the Tower is needed.
I had a client last year who got tired of renting suites and bought a imac to edit at his place on. That lasted about a month until he got tired of rendering all night on it and bought a MacPro.
Every time I hear someone say that T-Bolt is the solution I think of the attached Apple ad. Rat's nest of cables and boxes - that's T-Bolt.
To be fair, the number of business using the Xserve as a true enterprise server was TINY. Macs are usually served by small Mac-based workgroup servers or hung off Windows or UNIX networks. That's the reality.
The same can't be said of the Mac Pro, even if a lot of, say, professional graphic design is done on MacBook Pros or iMacs rather than hefty towers these days. It's not as if masses of R&D goes into them - they are basically a pretty standard intel motherboard and a posh case.
Only reason I would entertain the idea of a thunderbolt breakout box would be if I had no other Mac solution(and if it actually works).
LOL That dell next to the iMac looks like my dads computer till I just set him up with a new iMac. It's like a before and after of his desk. LOL!
Video takes all the grunt you can throw at it but there are still many more Macs used for 2D graphic design for print and web, where huge power isn't necessary and the MBP and MacBook Pros are now used by people that would have used G3 and G4 towers back in the day.
Apple still needs a Mac Pro for a long while yet but to ignore its growing niche-ness would be wrong. I can see them going for a single 12core model at a hefty price.
What is the real price?
But these PCI/E boxes can easily cost more than a loaded dual 6 core Mac Pro. Just go out & look if you do not believe me.
But these PCI/E boxes can easily cost more than a loaded dual 6 core Mac Pro. Just go out & look if you do not believe me.
I have a feeling a lot of "pros" are too married to their platform which is a mistake. It pays to be equally comfortable with mac/windows/linux. All have their certain strengths, all can get the job done at the end of day.
Being reliant on one sole company for your bread and butter isn't a great idea either. Look what happened to the final cut guys. Years of experience just flushed down the drain.
I'm pretty happy with my setup now. I got an iphone and MBP 13" for the casual stuff, for work I got a custom windows 7 based workstation. Apple making the funnest gadgets out there whilst I'm presented with tons of options/roadmaps/support with my computing for work.
Try it, might not go grey at an earlier age
Being reliant on one sole company for your bread and butter isn't a great idea either. Look what happened to the final cut guys. Years of experience just flushed down the drain.
I'm pretty happy with my setup now. I got an iphone and MBP 13" for the casual stuff, for work I got a custom windows 7 based workstation. Apple making the funnest gadgets out there whilst I'm presented with tons of options/roadmaps/support with my computing for work.
Try it, might not go grey at an earlier age
You must be new to the mac world: As recently as Snow Leopard, macs have been running PPC compiled apps just fine via Rosetta, so they would likely do something similar for an ARM MacBook Air. I'm not saying they will introduce an ARM MBA as I highly doubt it, especially given Intel's recent effort to reduce the TDP on their processors, but if they did, that's how they would do it.
I do actually believe you.
That's why I hope they continue manufacturing the mac pro. That way I don't have to ever go down that road.
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How does having less cables effect the outcome of your work? The answer is none.
It affects the experience of owning/using a device, which in this context is what matters.
There is science behind the benefits of a cleaner uncluttered workspace. Neater space = more focus.
informational article:
http://unclutterer.com/2011/03/29/s...ts-your-ability-to-focus-process-information/
pubmed article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21228167
I have a feeling a lot of "pros" are too married to their platform which is a mistake. It pays to be equally comfortable with mac/windows/linux. All have their certain strengths, all can get the job done at the end of day.
Being reliant on one sole company for your bread and butter isn't a great idea either. Look what happened to the final cut guys. Years of experience just flushed down the drain.
Try it, might not go grey at an earlier age
This.
Apple is at a crossroads, with a new CEO at the helm who will want to step out of Steve Jobs' shadow. What Apple do with hardware this year will set the tone for years to come.
Tim Cook seems to be somewhat more benign and more inclined to listen but having sentiment for Apple is a foolish game....And it's certainly not a two way relationship.
The idea of the (descendents of the) Power Mac line being discontinued actually makes me feel a little nauseated.
Unless, of course, they're scheduled for the high-end iMac, as the 6970 was...
Unless, of course, they're scheduled for the high-end iMac, as the 6970 was...
Apple's marketing with the imac promoted cable reduction. They always displayed it with a wireless keyboard and mouse, so that the only cable would be the power cord. That was all it was designed to be. Also there are a number of audio guys on here. Any of them can tell you that it's not just PCI slots for their protools cards. The Mac Pro also provides a silent solution. External boxes are not silent. You'll still need one for backups, but it can be powered down when you are working (as no one backs up in real time) providing a silent work area.
I know from buying bad products in the past at times
. It can be hard to find accurate information. PCI cards seem like a geek solution, yet they're simpler than having way too many boxes lying around. The imac really was designed for a different era. It wasn't actually designed so much for people who make their living from Apple products. It was leveraged into that space. I've seen photographers use them, but I've never seen any use them as a primary computer. I'm sure that exists, but it isn't an ideal solution. It's more like a good enough solution out of a given product pool. I've tried to work on that display before, and compared to what I am used to, it is just so annoying. For detail work in 3d modeling, photography, retouching, graphic design, color grading, etc. you want subdued lighting. Office lighting is awful. You get it as dim as possible where you can still comfortably walk around, and tone the display brightness down to a level that best matches the other devices in your workflow. Usually when I see someone with an imac, they're not only using that display, but using it with the brightness somewhere near maximum and set by eye in an office lighting situation. The difference between one and the other for doing critical work is just ridiculous. None of them understand that until they're shown the difference. Usually the theory is that it's better than their laptop, and none of them even remember crts (although I don't miss the flickering).
The basic theory with this stuff really isn't that complex. You internalize parts where the compromise is minimal. You only build outward when it solves a problem that can't feasibly be worked around internally (including if something costs too much to build). The mac pro is capable of acting as a catch all for a lot of demanding users, and most of these PCIe cards are tested on Mac Pros if suggested for use on a Mac. On displays, I have two in front of me. If I connected an additional Cinema display (can't use the TB display) or set up an imac beside them, you'd see the difference. Everyone can call the imac display beautiful all they like until they try this
. Also one of these is roughly five years old with some ridiculous number of hours on it (not my primary display any longer). It no longer looks perfect, but it lacks the issues I've seen in every imac of comparable age, almost none of which will be solved by simple software profiling via colorimeter device (purple edges, uniformity completely gone, weird saturated greys, etc.).
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This is a thread about the mac pros which are targetted at pros, not consumers with their concerns about wires messing up their feng-shui.