Mac Pro (Early 2008) Notes and Options

[BJNY]

Thank you. NOT software RAID, though.
There was some discussion months ago that the motherboard had/has hardware RAID capability built-in, but not enabled by Apple.

 

[errol]

The RAID card that you can get from Apple is pretty incredible, but at $1000 it's a bit pricey. There's another third party solution I saw somewhere at a couple hundred less.

 

[mistercoffee2]

Thank you. NOT software RAID, though.
There was some discussion months ago that the motherboard had/has hardware RAID capability built-in, but not enabled by Apple.

Yes. Software RAID. Uses SW driver layer to control the array.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID#Nested_levels

 

[mistercoffee2]

Yes, it is. The old Mac Pro used Intel's 5000X chipset, which supports DDR2-667 RAM, a 1333 MHz front side bus, and PCI Express 1.0 slots configurable at up to 26 lanes, by default as 16/1/4/4. The new Mac Pro uses Intel's 5400 chipset, which supports DDR2/3-800 RAM, a 1600 MHz front side bus, and PCI Express 2.0 slots nonconfigurable as 16/16/4/4. (40 total lanes, only the two 16x slots are PCI Express 2.0 slots, the other two are still just PCI Express 1.0)

Where can one find details such as this on the Mac Pro motherboard? Is there a high resolution photo anywhere. (not the new model of course)

 

[Umbongo]

That's what I guessed was the case. Thanks for the details. So when the Nehalem processors arrive in a few months it's back to the drawing board, so to speak, with a new motherboard. Makes one wonder why Apple didn't just wait another few months. Lots of development cost for such a short lifespan and so few sales. I'm guessing the Mac Pro doesn't sale in very large numbers compared to Dell's desktops or even the iMac.

I doubt it will be in a few months, even if Intel delivered everything at the earliest date we are still talking 6 months. More likely it will be a year or more before things are in a state where Apple can start shipping completed Mac Pros using Nehalem and it's associated components.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

That's what I guessed was the case. Thanks for the details. So when the Nehalem processors arrive in a few months it's back to the drawing board, so to speak, with a new motherboard. Makes one wonder why Apple didn't just wait another few months. Lots of development cost for such a short lifespan and so few sales. I'm guessing the Mac Pro doesn't sale in very large numbers compared to Dell's desktops or even the iMac.

As Umbongo suggests, Nehalem is not coming that soon. In all likelihood, it will be the VERY end of 2008 at the soonest. Likely there would be some delay between Nehalem's official introduction and Apple using it, just like with the delay with the intro of the new Mac Pro. So this new Mac Pro will likely see a good year of steady sales. With a probable speed bump in the middle, according to Intel's current roadmaps.

Is hardware RAID enabled with this new motherboard?

No, OS X still uses the software RAID when using the onboard controllers. (I have to admit that I have no firm confirmation of this, but I have nothing that even hints that it uses hardware RAID, which on Intel's integrated controllers, is really just a 'slightly hardware assisted software RAID'.) They do offer the add-in RAID controller, which now at least does support SAS on the Mac Pro. (On the previous Mac Pro, the add-in RAID controller was still SATA only, only the Xserve got SAS.)

 

[mistercoffee2]

As Umbongo suggests, Nehalem is not coming that soon. In all likelihood, it will be the VERY end of 2008 at the soonest. Likely there would be some delay between Nehalem's official introduction and Apple using it, just like with the delay with the intro of the new Mac Pro. So this new Mac Pro will likely see a good year of steady sales. With a probable speed bump in the middle, according to Intel's current roadmaps.

I agree, for the most part. I also believe the release date of Nehalem (Gainestown for Mac Pro) depends more on AMD then anything else. If AMD doesn't step up and challenge Intel's Penryn we may not see Nehalem for two or more years. Intel had already delayed some of the Penryn processors because their current line beats anything AMD has to offer. We need a healthy, competitive AMD.

 

[supercooled]

That is correct. You used to have to do a Configure now to add Bluetooth to your MP. Now it is built in automatically. I am puzzled why they did not include the Airport as well. In this day and age it should be standard. It is a $20 config, so why the hell make you buy that seperate. Pretty dumb in my opinion.

It's such a cheap component for $20 you would think they would just bundle it together for what you're paying in the system but the Apple apologists would defend it to the death how it could leave Mac Pros in corporate environments vulnerable to hacks or that because it is a workstation, and more important, a computer most frequently used in a place where CAT cables are in great supply that there is no need for Wifi. Bullocks to that! Greed, pure and simple.

 

[CWallace]

So when the Nehalem processors arrive in a few months it's back to the drawing board, so to speak, with a new motherboard. Makes one wonder why Apple didn't just wait another few months.

This would assume Apple plans to immediately go to Nehalem in the Mac Pro. Based on how long it took Apple to seriously update the previous Mac Pro, I expect such a move to be at a minimum of 12 months away, and possibly longer.

 

[MacRoom]

Rob-ART Of Bare Feats Confirms ATI Radeon 2600 XT Works In ALL Mac Pros

I read in Bare Feats Rob says it works so I emailed him to ask why he thought so and he replied:

ATI engineers told me it will work. They've been running it in their "old" Mac Pros for several months.

The Apple engineers confirmed last night that it works.

It's because it has both the EFI32 and EFI64 driver in the ROM. It will boot on all Mac Pros.

The GeForce 8800 GT has only the EFI64 ROM and will only boot on the newest Mac Pro.

Rob's also going to test for co-existence with the stock GeForce 7300 GT in the original Mac Pro. Expects his new 8-core to arrive monday and to have tests posted by Tuesday morning. He's using his MacWorld travel money to stay home in Hawaii and buy the new 8-core @ 3.2 GHz.

 

[jnc]

It's such a cheap component for $20 you would think they would just bundle it together for what you're paying in the system but the Apple apologists would defend it to the death how it could leave Mac Pros in corporate environments vulnerable to hacks or that because it is a workstation, and more important, a computer most frequently used in a place where CAT cables are in great supply that there is no need for Wifi. Bullocks to that! Greed, pure and simple.

You realise they could have just included Airport and made the MSRP $20 more, and you'd be none the wiser, probably praising Apple for finally having it as standard? Lol

 

[Rocketman]

You realize they could have just included Airport and made the MSRP $20 more, and you'd be none the wiser, probably praising Apple for finally having it as standard? Lol

Apple has done this pretty consistently and I attribute it to top-down management.

When they were proffering Firewire they delayed USB 2 release. USB 3 may be irrelevant, but FW 3200 is not. When then?

They abandoned rather than embracing Apple II OS. OS 4.2, 8.6, 9.2, 10.11. It should be concurrent OS'es. The processor supports it. And 10 instances of it.

Rocketman

 

[xbjllb]

No blu-ray option or support or mention at Mac Keynote

Gee, THANKS so much, Steve. Never thought I'd see the day when the Mac computer flagship model had NO support for the best video hard delivery format available. Blu-ray. And you're on the GD board!

I think I'm going to wait awhile before I purchase my tricked out Mac Pro, configured by Apple (for compatibility and not having to mess with installing crap just to save tons of money), at $10,000+, until you figure out that not having the best and latest video support in your flagship computer is pretty damn stupid. I have no interest in buying and having to install a third-party Blu-ray drive, with all the hell of the driver problems ALL versions of Mac OS has had over the years.

Oh. But I can buy a paper thin notebook computer that will destroy itself the second someone knocks into it or God forbid, it's dropped. Sure glad you have that lifetime replacement guarantee... oh, what, you don't? Sure plan on selling what, 3 to 4 to each customer over the unit's lifespan? Not to mention how notebooks eat drives like candy from all the endless jostling.

Or an iPhone. Yeah, I'll be doing a ton of video editing and delivery on that little toy.

Abandon your high end professional users and high technology status at GREAT peril.

Call me when you've got a blu-ray drive, STANDARD. And an option for two of them.

Until then, don't bother. What a wait for nothing.

 

[kingtj]

The whining is out in full force, I see!

Couldn't you just wait a while then, until Apple decides which drive they'd like to officially support in the Mac Pro - and spare us all the pointless complaining?

As people have said from the beginning, this Macworld expo is traditionally geared towards *consumer* products. It isn't the place Apple would normally be expected to make a big announcement affecting only their "Pro" users and hardware (like a decision to start officially supporting Blu-Ray).

They didn't even so much as make a bullet-point out of the fact that the XServes and Mac Pros received a hardware upgrade -- because again, it wasn't geared towards that audience.

As for the Macbook Air, I don't think it's liable to "destroy itself" any more quickly than Sony's Vaio TX models have destroyed themselves..... That is to say, it should be just fine for people who realize you should handle expensive hardware with some measure of care. (And hell, if you're THAT against hard drives in portables because they "crash all the time with the endless jostling", then Apple's SSD flash drive option is IDEAL for you.)

Any time you deal with an ultra light-weight and/or ultra-slim notebook, you're talking about a niche market interested in it -- because it involves more of the compromises you already have to make just to make a computer into a portable. It's all a question of how willing one is to give up some functionality for portability, and now, Apple has something to offer people who are pretty far over on the "portability" side of the continuum.

I'm no Apple "apologist" - but at the same time, I think they take a LOT more flack than is justified at times. This is one of those cases. People put Apple up on such a high pedestal, they get all bent out of shape when Apple doesn't make every single little business decision the exact way THEY think it should go.

The new Mac Pro has only been available a grand total of what? 2 weeks or so now? And it's probably only been close to this same time-frame that we've witnessed some major movie studios finally taking a stand that leads us to believe HD-DVD really IS on the way out. Mac Pros will get Blu-Ray drive options ... just not right "out of the gate".

Gee, THANKS so much, Steve. Never thought I'd see the day when the Mac computer flagship model had NO support for the best video hard delivery format available. Blu-ray. And you're on the GD board!

I think I'm going to wait awhile before I purchase my tricked out Mac Pro, configured by Apple (for compatibility and not having to mess with installing crap just to save tons of money), at $10,000+, until you figure out that not having the best and latest video support in your flagship computer is pretty damn stupid. I have no interest in buying and having to install a third-party Blu-ray drive, with all the hell of the driver problems ALL versions of Mac OS has had over the years.

Oh. But I can buy a paper thin notebook computer that will destroy itself the second someone knocks into it or God forbid, it's dropped. Sure glad you have that lifetime replacement guarantee... oh, what, you don't? Sure plan on selling what, 3 to 4 to each customer over the unit's lifespan? Not to mention how notebooks eat drives like candy from all the endless jostling.

Or an iPhone. Yeah, I'll be doing a ton of video editing and delivery on that little toy.

Abandon your high end professional users and high technology status at GREAT peril.

Call me when you've got a blu-ray drive, STANDARD. And an option for two of them.

Until then, don't bother. What a wait for nothing.

 

[CWallace]

Gee, THANKS so much, Steve. Never thought I'd see the day when the Mac computer flagship model had NO support for the best video hard delivery format available. Blu-ray. And you're on the GD board!

You can buy Mac-compatible Blu-Ray drives from at least one source, and likely more. And all will likely be less then what Apple would charge.

And Roxio Toast supports burning to Blu-Ray, so you can use that to burn your projects.

So unless you must have an Apple-branded solution, you have options.

 

[xbjllb]

Whining? My WHINING just pulled $10,000+ out of Apple's coffers

My point still stands. Mac Towers USED to be cutting edge technology.

No more. And my WHINING just pulled $10,000+ out of Apple's coffers. With GREAT pleasure.

Hope it stings. Mac flagship products MUST be on the cutting edge of technology, or else they are USELESS to their deep pocket pro market that needs, indeed, relies on having such cutting edge.

Pros who for the most part, do need an Apple-branded solution and apple-supported drives and drivers and are the ONLY ones willing to pay the ridiculous premiums for them.

That's me. But not now. Maybe not ever as Jobs continues to chase the least common denominator.

Whining? Yeah. $10,000+ worth of whining. Which trumps your two cent defense.

Processor speed ain't EVERYTHING. Not in the "pro video editing solution".

 

[Jonny427]

My point still stands. Mac Towers USED to be cutting edge technology.

No more. And my WHINING just pulled $10,000+ out of Apple's coffers. With GREAT pleasure.

Hope it stings. Mac flagship products MUST be on the cutting edge of technology, or else they are USELESS to their deep pocket pro market that needs, indeed, relies on having such cutting edge.

Pros who for the most part, do need an Apple-branded solution and apple-supported drives and drivers and are the ONLY ones willing to pay the ridiculous premiums for them.

That's me. But not now. Maybe not ever as Jobs continues to chase the least common denominator.

Whining? Yeah. $10,000+ worth of whining. Which trumps your two cent defense.

Processor speed ain't EVERYTHING. Not in the "pro video editing solution".

Your intelligence does not seem up to the standard of a video professional willing to drop $10k on a computer. If you just look around, you would see that there are perfectly compatible BD drives on the market for WAY less than apple would ever charge.

Saying the Mac Pro is not absolute cutting edge ONLY because of its lack of Blu-Ray support is laughable, considering every other component (less the midrange graphics card =P) is right at the forefront.

 

[xbjllb]

Your intelligence does not seem up to the standard of a video professional willing to drop $10k on a computer.

Sticks and stones, sticks and stones. Apple, unlike you, knows FULL WELL there is a $10,000+ cart at the Apple store in the same name I use here, that won't be fulfilled until they have a blu-ray drive, standard, or at the very least, an option.

If you just look around, you would see that there are perfectly compatible BD drives on the market for WAY less than apple would ever charge.

As I stated, I'm quite aware of that. I don't want to hassle with installation and crappy drivers and Mac OS using me as a beta tester on new versions of Leopard that will render my third party drive unusuable. My time is just too valuable for that bs, and yes, it is bs. More power to the people that do it to save a buck and the people that have to do it to save a buck, but that's NOT me.

Saying the Mac Pro is not absolute cutting edge ONLY because of its lack of Blu-Ray support is laughable, considering every other component (less the midrange graphics card =P) is right at the forefront.

The Apple flagship, the Mac Pro, ABSOLUTELY needs to be at the forefront IN EVERY WAY. Like it ALWAYS was in the past. What is laughable is to cut Apple slack when they blow it, bigtime.

And you don't sound like a professional video editor, either, or you'd get it.

 

[fergusonbk]

graphics card

Enough about the mac pro being for gaming or whatever, it's a beast. My question is all these people are referring to the 8800gt as mediocre, is this accurate? My roomate has a year old macpro with the x1900xt I believe and it's pretty damn good for games, the 8800gt can only be better right? Anyone know how much (I was thinking about 50% better hopefully). And would this be a nice gift to replace his older graphics card since the 8800 works on older mac pros now? (I would only do it if it was gona offer a visible speed and graphics bump). Thanks people stop the beefing answer the questions.
beretta

 

[diamond.g]

Enough about the mac pro being for gaming or whatever, it's a beast. My question is all these people are referring to the 8800gt as mediocre, is this accurate? My roomate has a year old macpro with the x1900xt I believe and it's pretty damn good for games, the 8800gt can only be better right? Anyone know how much (I was thinking about 50% better hopefully). And would this be a nice gift to replace his older graphics card since the 8800 works on older mac pros now? (I would only do it if it was gona offer a visible speed and graphics bump). Thanks people stop the beefing answer the questions.
beretta

According to Apple the 8800GT wont work on the older MP. The 8800GT is a good card, it just isn't top of the line.