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If you are going to pay a hefty price for a Mac Apple should let you consider customizing it the way you want. It’s simple as that.

Why else do we pay premium prices for Apple products?
Don't know if that was a rhetorical question. If it was, then rhetorical answer...
--It's not Android
--It's not Windows
--It's not Google
--It has an Apple logo on it
--Better privacy stance
--Better for creative types
--Better workflows
--They really are that loyal to Apple
--Better integration into the Apple ecosystem.
--no ads/fewer of them/better ads at least
 
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It’s really starting to sound like there will be no meaningful difference between the rumored Mac Pro and a Mac Studio — it’s a souped-up Mini with no options for expanded functionality.

If that’s the case, just kill the Pro.
 
here come the pages of people who never even planned on purchasing the thing complaining…
Yes, but second hand purchases are a thing, and in lieu of Apple ever making a mid-priced expandable tower, a used Mac Pro is the closest people can get. So developments here are relevant to people other than Pixar.

It’s really simple, the Macpro doesn’t even sell in the millions per year. Neither does the Mac Studio.
The cost of making custom parts for it that make the computer totally upgradable is a huge waste of money for them.
The problem with that is the implication for macOS as a platform. It basically says that the only form factors that are profitable for Apple to make are laptops and SFF desktops. That may be so, but that's Apple's problem - it leaves a large number of use cases which can only be filled by Windows PCs. Which makes it hard for an organisation to be Mac-only, and easy to be Windows-only.
 
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This does not sound promising for the future of the Mac Pro but all we have at this point are rumors. Every single new Apple Silicon device that replaced an Intel device has been a huge step up in every way. Will Apple really let their flagship Mac be the one device that’s actually a downgrade with Apple Silicon? I don’t think so.

Personally I think the Mac Pro will use a modified version of the M2 Ultra perhaps with a few extra cores. Maybe this modified version will allow users to upgrade their RAM for system memory while the internal unified RAM is reserved for GPU task. For an extra power bump, Apple could create their own GPU that can plug in and work with the built in M2 Ultra to add additional GPU grunt. From there Apple could make their newer chips (M3 ultra, M4 ultra, etc) available to purchase as a standalone unit that can be installed in the Mac Pro chassis to upgrade to the latest CPU. I believe there were rumors last year about Apple modifying their silicon for use with the Mac Pro so maybe this is a possibility.

I just can’t see them releasing another Trash Can like, locked down Mac Pro, right after releasing such a customizable Mac Pro. It’s already bad enough that they are apparently using the same design…
Not specifically "picking" on @terminator-jq, so don't take it that way LOL. If Apple wants to allow for upgradeable RAM for the "new" MacPro, they could easily do this by making a distinct SOC for the Pro line, that does not include the RAM on package. Instead it could have a (very) high-speed bus that connects to a series of expandable "sockets" on the logic board. These sockets could support as much memory as they want to, and would allow for custom configuration and potential upgrade after purchase. The biggest advantage brought by the current method of on-package, is the amount of bandwidth they are able to achieve that wouldn't be possible with current DIMM specifications. Which means the expandable MacPro RAM would have to be custom/proprietary to the MacPro in order to meet these requirements. This would also give Apple total control over quality and allow them to guarantee the performance. Incidentally this is a nice segue to my next point.....

The "Trash Can" Mac Pro was actually a great idea that had a terrible execution. The primary concept was to allow for the same level of customization as the older model, but make most of it external. There are two primary problems with how this Mac Pro was actually marketed, one the necessary Intel chips produced more heat than the cooling system was able to mitigate effectively (probably due to the targeted size for this model), and the expansion options were custom/proprietary. For whatever reason, Apple didn't make many upgrades available for the "Trash Can" Mac Pro. And since it was proprietary, third-party vendors were not able to step-up and fill the void. The concept about proprietary RAM for the Apple Silicon Mac Pro could face the same fate, if Apple doesn't properly support it :-(
 
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I'm kind of at a point where I'm thinking, "Does it actually matter that these stay on Intel?"

The software translation layers and everything work so well, it seems like that's not a bad option. AS is perfect for 90% of their lineup, would it really be that bad to just update the intel chips or drop some AMD ryzen epics in there?

Mac Studio seems like it's a really good desktop for probably most all of their power users as it is. Why try to shoehorn AS into a use case that just doesn't fit?
Because Apple is lazy. Or, to borrow a business term, they prefer to optimize their resources. They’d rather only develop for one architecture. The rest of us be damned.

:confused:
 
"Popular with Creative Professionals"

I'm wondering who the market is for $20-50,000 Mac Pros, outside of Pixar and Marvel Studios.

Graphic Designers? Print Publishing? Web design? software development? Photographers? Audio rendering? 3D modellers?

There's nothing in those workflows that a Mac Studio or M2 Pro Mini can't handle easily, with spare capacity left over. And they've been shown handling video editing effortlessly.

An M2 Pro Geekbench-marks above a 16-core 2019 Mac Pro. The M2 Ultra Studio is going to be insane. For which creatives is that not enough?
Say, you're kidding, Mac Studio is a toy. Have you seen the performance of Intel's 13th generation and the capabilities of the NVIDIA 4000 series cards?
You need RAY TRACING at the hardware level, AV1 encoder at the hardware level, in the VFX field you need workstations over 1 tera ram, 4-6 quadro cards linked together... where will you get this performance in the joke called Apple Silicon.
 
We are approaching a point soon where SoC solutions are going to out perform none SoC machines for almost all normal use cases. It doesn’t matter how many cores your GPU has, or how fast it can run, if there is a bottleneck in the transmission of data due to the GPU being external to the processor then you are going to be performance limited.

There are major gains to be had from keeping the GPU, CPU are cache all on a single dye and as companies develop even smaller and more precise fabrication techniques I think we will come to think of external GPU (even if it’s a different chip on the same board as the CPU) as quite antiquated.
 
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On chip memory is exactly what makes M1 and M2 so powerful and this is also coming to x86 etc. It's the only way to reduce memory latency. This should maybe be stated in the article, but I understand users want flexibility, but I would not sacrifice efficiency and latency for that.

Signal propagates about 150mm per ns so you'll lose a few ns with DIMMs and they could have same databus width, so in reality user upgradable DIMMs would just barely impact performance. It's not an issue.

The motherboard layout would be more complicated and they'd use a bit more power but this is a workstation anyway.
 
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We are approaching a point soon where SoC solutions are going to out perform none SoC machines for almost all normal use cases. It doesn’t matter how many cores your GPU has, or how fast it can run, if there is a bottleneck in the transmission of data due to the GPU being external to the processor then you are going to be performance limited.

There are major gains to be had from keeping the GPU, CPU are cache all on a single dye and as companies develop even smaller and more precise fabrication techniques I think we will come to think of external GPU (even if it’s a different chip on the same board as the CPU) as quite antiquated.
Except that no-one is going to be sticking GTX4090 level silicon inside an SoC, with all the other stuff. So regardless of the advantages you mention (which are real), there is a downside to the SoC approach too.

Plus for many use cases, you can load data into the GPU VRAM and let it get on with it, unimpeded by 'bottlenecks' (which are somewhat relative anyway if we consider the bandwidth of PCIe 5.0 x16).
 
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Screw the user upgradable ram - i mean I have 192gigs of Ram in my mac pro from 3 years ago and it's perfect for this machine, and still will be perfect in a few years.
The missing video engines and aging GPUs and low single core speed are the issues. Those are the parts that you want to upgrade. So the most important thing that they need to nail is a TON of gpu cores IMO. and make those expandable via MPX Modules made by apple
 
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You need RAY TRACING at the hardware level,
I guess my point is: what portion of "Creative Professionals" do Ray Tracing? OK, there's a market for animation and CGI, but the extent to which "Pros" (doing every other type of thing) need a Mac Pro is decreasing each year.
 
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Apple knows they screwed up with the trash can pro. They’ve had this feedback for decades, as well, from pro users. And let’s not forget that they are now making their own chips.

So what is to stop them from creating a special chip for Professionals that enables third party graphics cards, memory upgrades & PCIe & ports out the wazoo? Nothing. And it could be an entirely different chip named something like MP1 as in MacPro 1. In fact I’d bet that’s exactly what they will do. There are rumors that it will have the same chassis…and that would make NO SENSE if it weren’t highly expandable. Follow the money…they’ll make a fortune with an expandable Mac Pro.
 
Until the Fans quit buying them, Apple will continue this trend. They will never allow users to have the option to upgrade certain components over a 5-10 year span, when they can force them to buy every 3-5 years to keep up with what’s needed.
Steve Jobs insisted to Steve Wozniak that they (Apple) have end-to-end control (much to Woz's ire). IIRC, it was something he insisted on till the very end?
 
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Something has changed with apple, nothing is exciting anymore no keynotes or products even wwdc has been dissatisfied, what has happened, maybe they have hired people that don’t know the best stuff and let people go that did, something is very odd it’s just catch up now with small changes which can be even worse, the Mac Pro was a con
I think it’s just a cycle humans go through. People excited about the Mac were likely not understood by folks that, in their youth, were excited about the Apple II. While I’m hoping this doesn’t come to pass, I imagine that, at some point in the future, I, too might think that nothing about Apple is exciting anymore. It’s harder to be excited after experiencing so much “life” that, in some ways, is more exciting.

If that happens, I can look at those excited younger folks and know that, in about 30 years, they won’t be excited anymore either. :D
 
Probably a terrible idea, but I'm still curious about: a bare minimum motherboard. Doesn't have built-in USB, audio, bluetooth, wireless, or graphics. Let the customer decide how many & kind of CPU slots. Intel i7? 1 or more Xeons? AMD Threadripper? Then that'll determine types and number of RAM slots, as well as PCIe lanes. Based on the number of PCIe lanes, the customer can choose how many of which type of PCIe slots. A single 16x for graphics, a 4x for storage, and a few 1x for USB and wireless? Or maybe two 16x for graphics, a few 1x for ethernet and USB, and boot off network storage? I know it would take a while to assemble it, but that kind of customizability would be crazy.
 
Sounds bad. Only M2 Ultra 76xGPU for Mac Pro. No Dual M2 Ultra, no user upgrades?
It‘s basically a Mac Studio M2 Ultra then. 🤨
Slower than any RTX3090 GPU system then, can‘t be true.
 
If you are going to pay a hefty price for a Mac Apple should let you consider customizing it the way you want. It’s simple as that.

Why else do we pay premium prices for Apple products?
Good question. Other than Mac Pro's, Macs really haven't been user-upgradeable since Apple silicon. I guess we come here for the snazzy industrial design and Mac ecosystem … and stay here for the same.
 
If the RAM and GPU are bound to the M2 chip, they could make THAT changeable. Want more memory, a better GPU or upgrade to an M3 chip? Buy a new "M3 Ultra chipboard" for the Mac Pro. This board just has just the SoC and RAM and is plugged in to a main board containing the storage and PCI-e cards etc.

It could work, and would make upgrades somewhat affordable.
That was what I was implying on my earlier post. When you think of the benefits of using unified memory with a SoC, you come to realize the older populate memory or plug in a SSD replacement just wastes too much space with designs. Also consider the thermal efficiency of not having things laid out with lower heat pipes that dissipates across multiple chips like some laptop designs. Apple can certainly make a modular AS platform computer, it's just a question of how the chassis that this goes in would look like. I was thinking of more like some traditional slotted STE's I've used, not the same old PC tower designs.
 
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