They should be concerned - I'm really looking forward to seeing what Apple do with the Mac Pro, and the delay in the release just adds to the anticipation.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Mac Pro Enthusiasts Raise Concerns Over Upgrade Limitations of Apple Silicon
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
A PRO machine which cannot be upgraded...So Funny. You are a so called tech company. You claim that you are making a chip, and you are unable to come up with a pro machine which has a proper modularity. Really funny story
)
)
Here's what I think Apple will do, or is planning for future generations...
This generation's mac pro may only have an M2 Max/Ultra with fixed RAM and PCI slots, but I think in the future - potentially M3-series, will have the option to install additional M-series processors as either PCI cards or perhaps some other kind of upgradability.
That way the user gets upgradability of CPU and RAM, and Apple gets to direct all of that $$$ towards them.
This generation's mac pro may only have an M2 Max/Ultra with fixed RAM and PCI slots, but I think in the future - potentially M3-series, will have the option to install additional M-series processors as either PCI cards or perhaps some other kind of upgradability.
That way the user gets upgradability of CPU and RAM, and Apple gets to direct all of that $$$ towards them.
Businesses usually don't add memory after the fact do they? Usually they buy the configuration they want up front. This whole debate about socketed memory has more to do with looking at this from the traditional PC consumer, then thinking of someone that has the money and buys what they want and just deploys the workstation/server.A PRO machine which cannot be upgraded...So Funny. You are a so called tech company. You claim that you are making a chip, and you are unable to come up with a pro machine which has a proper modularity. Really funny story
Like a compute module? That might be a good idea for upgrading, but would require apple to invest in a secondhand market and it just does not feel like an apple-thing to do.
Maybe, just maybe, Apple will surprise us with some iteration of Mac Pro that offers AS + the GPU, RAM and other flexibility pro users need. For those needing dual-boot environments, I’m less hopeful.
Either way, it’s kinda fun - if not weird - to have Mac Pro headlines again. I can’t help but think back to MR’s earliest days when Power Macs dominated these forums.
Either way, it’s kinda fun - if not weird - to have Mac Pro headlines again. I can’t help but think back to MR’s earliest days when Power Macs dominated these forums.
Last edited:
I work in IT, and would love socketed RAM & drives. I hate the idea of having to replace the whole device just because just the SSD died.
In the 3D, Animation and Simulation based professions, for us, a Pro machine is always an upgradable one with a Ram capacity usually going up to 1Tb for some specific simulations so as to have less cache files and 2-3 Gpus for particularly rendering. I really wonder what kind of soldered machine could measure up to?
Gurman is killing us with all the back and forth rumors. Pick a lane Mark! 😉
I take this tweet as his opinion/observation/stating the obvious of the Apple Silicon GPU situation, rather than reporting some specific leaked information from a source.
I hope Mac Pro continues to support GPU expansion, even if it’s just a more powerful discrete Apple GPU option in addition to the integrated GPU in M2 Ultra.
If Mac Pro only includes the integrated GPU in M2 Ultra and no other GPU option, that may be fine for audio engineers and many video editors (not motion graphics / VFX artists), some scientific/academic applications.
But if they want to keep courting the most demanding GPU customers for 3D / VFX rendering applications, I’d hope they continue to quietly offer an Intel Mac Pro option with AMD GPU support, like they did with M1 Mac Mini.
I take this tweet as his opinion/observation/stating the obvious of the Apple Silicon GPU situation, rather than reporting some specific leaked information from a source.
I hope Mac Pro continues to support GPU expansion, even if it’s just a more powerful discrete Apple GPU option in addition to the integrated GPU in M2 Ultra.
If Mac Pro only includes the integrated GPU in M2 Ultra and no other GPU option, that may be fine for audio engineers and many video editors (not motion graphics / VFX artists), some scientific/academic applications.
But if they want to keep courting the most demanding GPU customers for 3D / VFX rendering applications, I’d hope they continue to quietly offer an Intel Mac Pro option with AMD GPU support, like they did with M1 Mac Mini.
They need to not “corporatize” it and just make it modular. Professional users needs change over time. These machines are being used for heavy duty work, not as a thin client in an office.
If they chose to use socketed SoC board modules each with its bank of memory, why couldn't they treat this easily as a computer cluster?
Any chance they just leverage a better cooling system to slightly upclock a M2 Ultra chip? 200 extra MGhz = "M2 Extreme"
yeah, I just sucked it up and bought PC workstations to sit alongside the macs. Still dont regret that decision which I made 2 years ago for my studio basically the day Apple Silicon was announced.
In the meantime the GPU's have been upgraded twice.......
Never? I guess my 2012 MacPro with multiple upgrades is a figment of my imagination? And the MacPro7,1 doesn't exist apparently. "Never again" perhaps, but I hope not.
That is absolutely outrageous!!! Even in the automotive market such price gouging would be ridiculous.
In current Mac's the swap space when you run low on memory is the ssd. They could write code that moves that swap space to an expandable area of fast RAM for the Pro.
As far as the GPU, an Ultra will have up to 56 cores, but I suspect they will find a way to support discrete GPU's as well.
As far as the GPU, an Ultra will have up to 56 cores, but I suspect they will find a way to support discrete GPU's as well.
Then I wouldn’t worry about the new Mac Pro, Apple will figure something out to support those clients😊
I’m wondering if somehow Apple will make it so you have 4 sockets and can plug in M2 Ultra chips to add both GPU & Memory together.
Maybe we’ll see a hardware RAID controller for storage.
Who knows. Exciting times ahead!
Maybe we’ll see a hardware RAID controller for storage.
Who knows. Exciting times ahead!
I brought this up quite some time ago and again at the launch of the Mac Studio. Most users applaud Apple's aspirations of developing GPUs tech, however there's a degree of specificity in various industries that if not missing is definitely behind the curve for various industries where a better, more open, more capable Mac Pro would be highly valued. The idea should be for Apple to plow forward with their GPU plans while still supporting power users in more than one industry with GPU options.
Nvidia and AMD GPUs should be part of the mix even if it's only in after market retail. Compatibility should be more than just the most expensive card physically configured in a way different to any other GPU on the market making them exponentially more expensive.
If going back to Intel is the only way than Apple needs to be prepared to fork back to x86. If Apple doesn't want to do it directly they should find a partner like Sony, for which there are a number of areas of cross collaboration that already exist and would be beneficial for both companies.
Continuing with the "You're not allowed to have access to the CUDA libraries OR AMD GPUs because Nvidia was mean to us and AMD wouldn't do what we wanted 100% of the time" shouldn't even be in the equation and it never should have been.
Nvidia and AMD GPUs should be part of the mix even if it's only in after market retail. Compatibility should be more than just the most expensive card physically configured in a way different to any other GPU on the market making them exponentially more expensive.
If going back to Intel is the only way than Apple needs to be prepared to fork back to x86. If Apple doesn't want to do it directly they should find a partner like Sony, for which there are a number of areas of cross collaboration that already exist and would be beneficial for both companies.
Continuing with the "You're not allowed to have access to the CUDA libraries OR AMD GPUs because Nvidia was mean to us and AMD wouldn't do what we wanted 100% of the time" shouldn't even be in the equation and it never should have been.
I’m 99% certain that Apple are going to deliver something special for Mac Pro … they understand the market and they know what creative / engineering professionals need.
The Mac Studio on my desk is crazy powerful and nails xCode, AfterEffects and Logic at bonkers speeds — I really do not believe Apple will release a Mac Pro that’s only offering storage over its smaller sibling. It need to offer expansion on all fronts. Otherwise there’s no point, just max out a Studio instead.
i look forward to being surprised!
The Mac Studio on my desk is crazy powerful and nails xCode, AfterEffects and Logic at bonkers speeds — I really do not believe Apple will release a Mac Pro that’s only offering storage over its smaller sibling. It need to offer expansion on all fronts. Otherwise there’s no point, just max out a Studio instead.
i look forward to being surprised!
Hence why Apple should get a partner like Sony to buy back their computer division and do it. Sony always needed a solid customer base and a Mac designed as a 3D beast utilizing proprietary and industry standards would do that. Day and date Playstation releases on a lower end AMD CPU/powerful GPU build would expand Apple's desktop reach with quite a lot of non-traditional Apple customers.
No it was most certainly NOT a great idea.
The cost of replacing the missing functionality was around $2K. That number isn't picked out of a hat, btw - I specced it out when the trashcan was released.
Or we leave, if we want to get work done. It is what I did. I do 3d art, and as such Macs are now non starters after 15 years of Power Macs & Mac Pros.
Yes - and that is what a lot of us wanted.
Threadripper based Mac Pros would have been nirvana - and would have sold a lot more than the 7,1. They would have sold even more, if Apple had signed off on the Nvidia drivers for both Turing and Ampere cards.
As far as Apple is concerned - you don't exist as an Apple customer, if you are still trying to keep an 11 year old computer running.
At some point, you have to let go of old hardware - you truly don't realize how far behind you are.
Apple only understands one portion of the creative/engineering needs. Video production using Apple only software.
Everybody else was abandoned - I am one of those folks - I do 3d art, and I finally threw in the towel when the 7,1 was launched. My Ryzen system outperforms the base 7,1 for less than 1/3 of the price.
“ Apart from space for media and networking cards, that leaves only storage as the main user-upgradeable component in the Mac Pro”
Disappointing, but not all all surprising. Given the arc of Apple Silicon development and Apple’s leanings, I had no expectations of PCIe GPU support. I half expected no PCIe support at all. Not that I have that kind of budget as a “wokin’ class” Creative pro. But Apple needs to bring more to the table if they hope to make this machine attractive to the (shrinking) market that can afford it. We are reminded that Apple’s moneymaker is iPhones, not macs, and the Mac Pro has the dead last smallest slice of their market share. Apple is not going to bend heaven and earth for the MP.
Disappointing, but not all all surprising. Given the arc of Apple Silicon development and Apple’s leanings, I had no expectations of PCIe GPU support. I half expected no PCIe support at all. Not that I have that kind of budget as a “wokin’ class” Creative pro. But Apple needs to bring more to the table if they hope to make this machine attractive to the (shrinking) market that can afford it. We are reminded that Apple’s moneymaker is iPhones, not macs, and the Mac Pro has the dead last smallest slice of their market share. Apple is not going to bend heaven and earth for the MP.