Mac Pro now or wait?

[suneohair]

A Lot of people are depending on macworld, but if it doesn't happen then, are you still willing to wait, and wait, and wait ??
i use cs3 apps and am happy, 8 cores wont make any difference to cs3 apps, Strikes me a lot of people have missed out on Mac Pro's with the promise of updated MP's coming soon, buy now, update later, why miss out, you will always be able to shift a mac pro when the times right

No, in a single CS3 app, eight-cores will be wasted. But most people... multi-task gasp!!! PS, LR, etc etc. I for one am not running one app at a time. That is the beauty of our multi-core age. This "it doesn't utilize all the CPUs for this one filter!" has to be one of the dumbest I have heard in awhile. It doesn't need to. And to some degree, it can only do it so fast, there are may other limiting factors in todays machines that may only allow for one-core to be used in any given task. Plus, the fact that it does use more than one core at a time suggests it has the ability to use all the cores, it just might not need to do that. So judging an app with no technical knowledge of how it was written, and solely on how much you "cpu meter" reads is about as useful as a talking to a rock. I am baffled by those who want to see 100% utilization to feel like their hardware is being used properly.

This buy now and update later crap is really stupid, and terribly bad advice. I don't see a point in buying a vastly outdated machine today only to have it lose a ton of value in a few months. If the Mac Pro goes all eight-core, you can expect current Mac Pros to plummet in price. Probably close to Quad G5 levels. How is it a smart financial decision to do that?

I don't really feel I have missed out on anything. The current Mac Pro was the same Mac Pro it was in August of 2006. What am I missing in late 2007? Oh, I am missing the chance to blow my money on a computer that is outdated... oh.

 

[Mr.Noisy]

This buy now and update later crap is really stupid, and terribly bad advice. I don't see a point in buying a vastly outdated machine today only to have it lose a ton of value in a few months. If the Mac Pro goes all eight-core, you can expect current Mac Pros to plummet in price. Probably close to Quad G5 levels. How is it a smart financial decision to do that?

I don't really feel I have missed out on anything. The current Mac Pro was the same Mac Pro it was in August of 2006. What am I missing in late 2007? Oh, I am missing the chance to blow my money on a computer that is outdated... oh.

Most people buying the Mac Pro can afford the lose, If the machines making them money anyway, whats a few hundred quid ???
why sit back waiting for the updates, strikes me your getting a little heated with all this going on, is it that you really wish you had invested and missed your chance?? me personally as soon as ive run this MP into the ground i'll just pop to the apple store and order a new one, unless the updates are worth it, then i'll get one when they are released, no big deal only a few grand

 

[OnePumpChump]

This buy now and update later crap is really stupid, and terribly bad advice. I don't see a point in buying a vastly outdated machine today only to have it lose a ton of value in a few months. If the Mac Pro goes all eight-core, you can expect current Mac Pros to plummet in price. Probably close to Quad G5 levels. How is it a smart financial decision to do that?

Exactly. Why is it so hard for everyone to understand this? If you can afford to wait, wait. You would just be throwing your money away if you didn't.

 

[GoKyu]

This will be my first Mac (been using PCs since about '89, and a C-64 before that, till '94 ), and it's really been a long time in coming.

I want to run away screaming from Windows (and I'm still running *XP* - Thank God I didn't upgrade to Vista...) and just get into a better OS and hardware setup.

So....HURRY UP APPLE!!!

-Bryan

 

[Macinposh]

No, in a single CS3 app, eight-cores will be wasted. But most people... multi-task gasp!!! PS, LR, etc etc. I for one am not running one app at a time. That is the beauty of our multi-core age. This "it doesn't utilize all the CPUs for this one filter!" has to be one of the dumbest I have heard in awhile.

Ooo! Multitasking!

Sorry but that doesnt work for ***** in real life. Well,unless you are Multimedia and working with video all the time.
In an normal photo/pre-press situation your workflow is quite different.
-You skoop you pics into lightroom,rate,choose and tune them.Then you export them.
At exporting you are for the first time having some free time (other wise,well,you are working..) so you can say read you mail or start your photoshop. Exporting a 40 pic batch of 16bit 72 Mb TIFFs takes only few minutes,that much time that you can re-fill your coffemug.
Then it is ready.
Then you start to work on your pictures in Photoshop,usually one by one.
You aint doing no bloody multitasking while you are working.

If are simultaneously testing layout compostition in Indesign,LR for reimporting or whatever it doesnt tax your system much.
Memory wise,yes,but processor wise,no.


So,in the photography area of working,you can shove the multitasking up the proverbal arse,imho.
ATM,you have a very linear workflow with no great benefits of multiple cores or multitasking.
In video,utterly different thing.
In music,a bit different thing.

This buy now and update later crap is really stupid, and terribly bad advice. I don't see a point in buying a vastly outdated machine today only to have it lose a ton of value in a few months.

As stated above.
For certain kind of production enviroments the current machines are ok.
If thread starter would have asked about MPs for 3D,music or video enviroments then,hell, he should definately wait!
The current MPs will have their "value" for years to come. Id expect their lifespan to be for additional 3-4 years before becoming bottleneck of production.

 

[suneohair]

I am sure you know his exact workflow...

If you really get no benefit to multi-cores, why not just get a single core G5? I mean, you would be getting work done just as fast right? You could save money and get the workflow going!

I personally, multitask, and yes I work with photos. It is not my primary task, but it is one of the things I have open when doing work.

I am going to have to disagree with you on the multitasking, because again, while you may only be doing one thing. You have the OS, maybe some music, email, etc etc etc. No one is doing just one thing anymore and the multi cores help offset that. Not saying he needs an eight-core of course.

Also, on the much earlier point that CPU utilization is an indication of poor core utilization. The fact that does indeed scale up for certain duties suggest that it can indeed use multiple cores. There just always isn't a need as by the time it would start dividing out the threads the task is done on the one core.

I don't think current Mac Pro is worth the amount being asked. That will further decay when the new ones arrive. My point is that it is not a good financial decision to buy the current Pro. Even though I make money with what I do, I am not foolish enough to waste my money. End of story. Maybe you feel that is not the case and so be it.

But what you are saying doesn't really have any truth to it and is extremely misleading especially in the area of core utilization and value.

 

[Macinposh]

But what you are saying doesn't really have any truth to it and is extremely misleading especially in the area of core utilization and value.

Well,have to say that we do have different kind of views...
Core utilization sucks donkey balls in PS CS3 (that is a know fact) and value of the computer seems to be relative.

I see it that if you need the computer now, you buy it now.
You use it for 4 years,it has earned the investment back with in 6 months and you get profit for the rest 3 1/2 years.
AND you get your job done in minimum amount of time. The computer not being the bottleneck,but the PS being.
And it will be at least untill CS4 somewhere next december. And there is fear that complete rewrite of the code (to take care of the multithreading problems) is expected in CS5.
That release is 2 1/2 years away ,if adobe keeps its long standing track record of having its product release cycle of 18 months.

You can check out some barefeats(?) where they compared the 4 core MP and 8 core MP and the performace difference was practically nil in photoshop.


So,imho,if you need the computer now,buy it now.
If you can wait for 1-2 months then definately wait. You will get a computer that is 2-3 times faster than the current 4 core MP on some optimized programs (video,music,Lightroom) and maybe 10-20% speedup on said photoshop.

Either way,you will have a good workhorse for years to come.

 

[Graphis]

It seems that everyone's expecting the bottom-to-mid range Mac Pro's to be vastly improved by any forthcoming upgrade (and I agree), but what do y'all think about the 8-core? It was only introduced in April, so is it likely to be upgraded so soon? Is there any precedent for upgrading a model so soon after introduction?
Or is it the case that Apple will have to upgrade it, as the upgraded bottom-to-mids would outperform the 8-core?
The reason I ask, is I want an 8-core: I'll wait if it's going to be worth it, but if it's not likely to be upgraded like the others, then I may as well get one now.

 

[suneohair]

It seems that everyone's expecting the bottom-to-mid range Mac Pro's to be vastly improved by any forthcoming upgrade (and I agree), but what do y'all think about the 8-core? It was only introduced in April, so is it likely to be upgraded so soon? Is there any precedent for upgrading a model so soon after introduction?
Or is it the case that Apple will have to upgrade it, as the upgraded bottom-to-mids would outperform the 8-core?
The reason I ask, is I want an 8-core: I'll wait if it's going to be worth it, but if it's not likely to be upgraded like the others, then I may as well get one now.

I suggest you research Xeon Harpertown.

 

[Graphis]

I suggest you research Xeon Harpertown.

Why? Do you know for sure that will put these chips in an upgrade to the 8-core? By pointing me off in that direction, you're implying that you know this is the case. Anyway, you didn't actually answer my question

 

[TripleCore]

It seems that everyone's expecting the bottom-to-mid range Mac Pro's to be vastly improved by any forthcoming upgrade (and I agree), but what do y'all think about the 8-core? It was only introduced in April, so is it likely to be upgraded so soon?

Sure, if it's a new chip refresh. There were some memory bottlenecking issues with the 8-core, so maybe that will be addressed in an update.

 

[Graphis]

There were some memory bottlenecking issues with the 8-core

Really? I wasn't aware of this... is there a thread or some other source where I could read up on this?

 

[TripleCore]

Barefeats has a nice comparison with the 4-core. The 8 cores DO improve performance, so you're still getting more power in the long run, but perhaps not as much as you really could get. People I have talked to say to wait until the next revision to buy one. The real benefit of the existing 8-core is mainly in rendering.

http://www.barefeats.com/octopro1.html

 

[Umbongo]

Why? Do you know for sure that will put these chips in an upgrade to the 8-core? By pointing me off in that direction, you're implying that you know this is the case. Anyway, you didn't actually answer my question

The current 8 core isn't a different model, it's a processor change just the same as the 2GHz and 3GHz options. It's highly unlikely Apple will use anything but two quad core xeon processors in all the new mac pro configurations.

 

[Graphis]

I had a look at the Barefeats comparison: very interesting.
I'm mainly an artist/illustrator, working in Painter and Photoshop, although I have started to incorporate 3D into my work (lo end at this point, Poser, Bryce, ZBrush etc, although I hope to move up to Maya or something similar later), so render time is important to me, and no doubt will become even more important as time goes by.
I also do some bread-and-butter design work, using Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, InDesign, Acrobat and DreamWeaver.

All things considered, it looks as if I'd be better off waiting for the upgrade, but only untill MacWorld: I can't really wait any longer.

On the other hand, there's some great deals around at the moment. I could get a current 8-core with a free 500GB 2nd internal drive, 5GB of RAM, and a new A3 printer, for the same price as buying just the machine direct from Apple.... it's very tempting.

 

[TripleCore]

I am a designer, so I don't need lots more horsepower for that. But I do need it for 3D. If you are interested in doing 3D illustration, take a look at modo. Maya may be overkill and overpriced for what you need (good to know if you are in the industry pipeline, which uses it a lot).

 

[Graphis]

Modo looks great, and a fraction of the cost of Maya. Thanks for that tip!
Especially as I don't want to get into actual animation, a lot of maya's features would be useless to me, which is why I've baulked at the price before now. Once I finally get a new Mac Pro, Modo will be the first new app I buy.

 

[suneohair]

Why? Do you know for sure that will put these chips in an upgrade to the 8-core? By pointing me off in that direction, you're implying that you know this is the case. Anyway, you didn't actually answer my question

Yes. They will. Apple isn't going to replace the bottom options with eight-core Harpertowns while leaving the Clovertown in the top end model. That would be plain silly. I thought that would be clear to you but evidently not.

By pointing you in the direction I did, you should have been able to get a good idea of what is coming if you had bothered to research, regardless of whether or not my implication is correct it is at the very least a logical one. And if you look into the Harpertown line you will see where the "eight-core" is going. It is going to be replaced by a higher end eight-core while the base model, at least, will also be getting eight-cores. So yes, your question was answered, you just didn't bother to actually look into it. There is enough information here such that I or anyone else should not have to hand feed information.

 

[98707]

...enough information here such that I or anyone else should not have to hand feed information.

 

[Graphis]

Thanks for your response. I didn't ask to be "hand fed", but (and forgive me if I appear to have assumed incorrectly), but I did think that the reason (one reason, anyway) for this forum was so that we could ask each other's advice and opinions, thus avoiding the need for each individual to go off and do their own research?
It's called sharing, I believe. But if you don't actually like answering questions from people who don't know as much as you do, then maybe you're in the wrong place?

Anyway, that aside, thanks for actually elaborating your previous answer.

 

[suneohair]

Thanks for your response. I didn't ask to be "hand fed", but (and forgive me if I appear to have assumed incorrectly), but I did think that the reason (one reason, anyway) for this forum was so that we could ask each other's advice and opinions, thus avoiding the need for each individual to go off and do their own research?
It's called sharing, I believe. But if you don't actually like answering questions from people who don't know as much as you do, then maybe you're in the wrong place?

Anyway, that aside, thanks for actually elaborating your previous answer.

Like I said, I gave you a quick pointer with the time I had. There is thread with Harpertown in the title here, and by far the leading thread dare I say on the entire internet, covering the next Mac Pro and what it will potentially have.

I have no problem answering questions, but what you were asking has been covered time and time again on these forums. There is no sense in repeating it again and again.

If you didn't like the pointer I gave or decided to reply without actually using it, that is fine but you had the information you needed to get your answer (and more), whether you liked it or not and without further elaboration on my part.