That came to my mind too when Steve told us during the keynote that they were working on the new iToy for 18 months.
There's only one person left in the MP division cleaning some prototype motherboards from the dust.
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Mac Pro release speculation
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That came to my mind too when Steve told us during the keynote that they were working on the new iToy for 18 months.
There's only one person left in the MP division cleaning some prototype motherboards from the dust.
With the 'holiday' update... Really? Its not like a bunch of folks find the Mac Pro under their trees or menorahs during the holiday season.
And again summer doesn't mean videographers, photographers, and editors take a break (isn't June the big wedding month? Lots of freelance work to do there).
There is no rhyme or reason to the Mac pro line, it is truly apples only professional machine, although it is prosumer as well. The iMac is at best prosumer as well, but hardly professional, although I bet a lot of studios have them for various manipulation, but at the core you need some expansion to have the compatibility you need with your other professional tools, cameras anyone?
At this point as a prosumer, I think I'll have the money in my savings account getting interest in the meantime, mainly because at this close to a refresh, I'd kick myself for not waiting. Mind you all I am running on a Power Mac G4, and a loud ebay'd G5, with a MacBook Pro being my sweet spot at the moment. So for the other prosumers out there that can't justify a new desktop every other year. I'd rather get the full lifespan of a new model then get a few weeks or a few months out of the 2009.
Just my humble thoughts.
And to the thread police I think I saw an offender in the iPhone forums...
And again summer doesn't mean videographers, photographers, and editors take a break (isn't June the big wedding month? Lots of freelance work to do there).
There is no rhyme or reason to the Mac pro line, it is truly apples only professional machine, although it is prosumer as well. The iMac is at best prosumer as well, but hardly professional, although I bet a lot of studios have them for various manipulation, but at the core you need some expansion to have the compatibility you need with your other professional tools, cameras anyone?
At this point as a prosumer, I think I'll have the money in my savings account getting interest in the meantime, mainly because at this close to a refresh, I'd kick myself for not waiting. Mind you all I am running on a Power Mac G4, and a loud ebay'd G5, with a MacBook Pro being my sweet spot at the moment. So for the other prosumers out there that can't justify a new desktop every other year. I'd rather get the full lifespan of a new model then get a few weeks or a few months out of the 2009.
Just my humble thoughts.
And to the thread police I think I saw an offender in the iPhone forums...
Newsweek Article
.
Does iPhone 4 mean death of the Mac?
Part of the article:
"Dear Macintosh,
I hate to tell you this, but my guess is you’ve probably been sensing it already. I don’t know any good way to say it so let me just be blunt: You’ve been dropped. Dumped. It’s over.
I’m sorry. I know this hurts. But you need to face up to the truth–Steve Jobs just broke up with you. This happened yesterday at the World Wide Developers Conference. I know–why couldn’t he just do it in private? Well, you know Steve. He loves the spotlight.
So what did he talk about? He talked about iPads, and the App Store, and iBooks, and videogames. He talked about the new iPhone 4, with new video-chat software called FaceTime and a gyroscope that lets you shoot missiles into outer space and take pictures of Saturn or something. And he had lots and lots to say about his new mobile-phone operating system, which used to be called iPhone OS and now has changed its name to iOS 4.
But one thing Steve didn’t have much to say about was you. In fact, he didn’t talk about you at all. That’s not how it used to be. Remember the old days?
Why it seems like only yesterday that you, Mac, were all Steve wanted to talk about. You and your wonderful stable operating system that was so much better than Windows.
And remember those cool “I’m a Mac” ads? They were everywhere.
To anyone out there who thinks yesterday’s radio silence on the Macintosh was not significant, or who still is attempting to build a business around the—and, yes, I’m talking to you, Macworld magazine, and Macworld Expo, and Mac Life, and Macalope, and MacTech, and MyMac, and MacUser, and all the rest of you—well, dear friends, listen up...."
.
Does iPhone 4 mean death of the Mac?
Part of the article:
"Dear Macintosh,
I hate to tell you this, but my guess is you’ve probably been sensing it already. I don’t know any good way to say it so let me just be blunt: You’ve been dropped. Dumped. It’s over.
I’m sorry. I know this hurts. But you need to face up to the truth–Steve Jobs just broke up with you. This happened yesterday at the World Wide Developers Conference. I know–why couldn’t he just do it in private? Well, you know Steve. He loves the spotlight.
So what did he talk about? He talked about iPads, and the App Store, and iBooks, and videogames. He talked about the new iPhone 4, with new video-chat software called FaceTime and a gyroscope that lets you shoot missiles into outer space and take pictures of Saturn or something. And he had lots and lots to say about his new mobile-phone operating system, which used to be called iPhone OS and now has changed its name to iOS 4.
But one thing Steve didn’t have much to say about was you. In fact, he didn’t talk about you at all. That’s not how it used to be. Remember the old days?
Why it seems like only yesterday that you, Mac, were all Steve wanted to talk about. You and your wonderful stable operating system that was so much better than Windows.
And remember those cool “I’m a Mac” ads? They were everywhere.
To anyone out there who thinks yesterday’s radio silence on the Macintosh was not significant, or who still is attempting to build a business around the—and, yes, I’m talking to you, Macworld magazine, and Macworld Expo, and Mac Life, and Macalope, and MacTech, and MyMac, and MacUser, and all the rest of you—well, dear friends, listen up...."
and, one more thing...
With the release of the i7 iMacs there isn't much difference, speed wise, between a low end Mac Pro and a high end iMac. That lack of a difference was supposed to be erased with the Gulftown hexacore Mac Pro's. My bet is that Intel didn't produce enough hexacore chips and Apple is concurrently letting the octo-core Mac Pro supplies go down until they are ready to be selling the new hexacore Macs. It is too bad this didn't happen during WWDC.
With the release of the i7 iMacs there isn't much difference, speed wise, between a low end Mac Pro and a high end iMac. That lack of a difference was supposed to be erased with the Gulftown hexacore Mac Pro's. My bet is that Intel didn't produce enough hexacore chips and Apple is concurrently letting the octo-core Mac Pro supplies go down until they are ready to be selling the new hexacore Macs. It is too bad this didn't happen during WWDC.
There's enough that other vendors can produce CTO systems and ship within a week. So the "lack of parts" argument is false.
The articles that mentioned such issues focused on a specific means of obtaining them - Distributor Channels, which is for vendors that buy much smaller quantities. Apple, Dell, and HP for example, buy directly from Intel (aka Direct Channel via contracts).
The base architecture is the same, but there are differences between the different sockets (i.e. LGA1156 vs. LGA1366). In the case of the LGA1366, they're the same architecture, but a couple of major differences, such as a die shrink (32nm instead of 45nm) and an additional pair of cores for certain parts. There's a few other differences here and there, such as TDP ratings, and some tweaking of the features, such as improvements to Turbo mode and Virtualization.
For the LGA1156 parts, the memory controller is less sophisticated (dual channel instead of triple channel), and the interconnects are different (DMI instead of QPI). Some are Quad core (i7), while others are Dual core (i5). The specifics will depend on the exact part number (some features are/aren't available as well).
Excellent. This is what we need, us venting on here won't get us anywhere, if there are rumbles in the media maybe, just maybe we'll hear something.
Or perhaps Steve could write an open letter about it
Maybe Apple is becoming more and more like Microsoft. It took MS over five years to 'update' XP because they were distracted from their core business. And Vista was the result
Ouch, yes the truth hurts.
R.I.P. Mac.
I hope not. Though that "letter" to Steve Jobs is a little too unsettling, it's true Apple is going into a very money driven area. I'll remain optimistic though.
I want to see the Mac Pro continue (and all existing Macs). I'm using my iPhone less now and my Macs more for a variety of reasons (because what the machines can run). I don't use Mac Pros but...it might just be my next Mac down the line. I hope they are updated soon though. That would prove this Newsweek article wrong which would be a good thing.
would you consider dual channel to be "less" sophisticated? we know that the real world implementations do not see that much of an increase in, well, anything! do you see all computers eventually changing to tri-channel? or will we stick/go back to dual-channel?
don't forget TB (which appears to be the same rates for the CPUs), ECC capabilities, and the added security added onto the Xeon chips, dual CPU support of xeons, etc.
i dont really see how these effect 90% of users of a MacPro - but apple sees the Xeon CPU as an important selling point of their MP.
I would guess we are going back to dual-channeling as triple-channeling only brings a minor bump over dual-channeling (well, both are pretty useless IMO). Triple-channeling also limits your RAM slots as most computers still have paired number (2,4,6,8) so using e.g. 3 slots out of 4 is pretty dumb IMO.
Maybe we move towards hexa-channeling
Seriously, dual-channeling is more than fine in terms of performance, tri-channel only gives like 2% boost over it+ More RAM. LGA 1156 maxes out at 16GB while LGA 1366 can take at least twice as much.
LGA 1156 is for mainstream CPUs thus all Xeons (Lynnfield Xeons aren't count, they are same as non-Xeons
) use LGA 1366. Sure single CPU Mac Pro with LGA 1156 would be nice but Apple would anyway charge the same for it.
Yea it's rather annoying how the implementation has been done. Iirc the improvements of tri channel was somewhere about 5-10% more? Not too sure what the logic is behind that.
I agree, especially once you consider where the actual bottle necks of the computer are!Maybe we move towards hexa-channeling
ahh good point. Forgot about that.
you woukd never consider the mac pro to be a server machine though, it is still primarily a consumer computer. The Xserve? Yes of course. But not for the mac pro. That could be an area where apple could improve their numbers sold for the Mac pro, especially since there is no high end i7 gaming Mac.LGA 1156 is for mainstream CPUs thus all Xeons (Lynnfield Xeons aren't count, they are same as non-Xeons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths#Memory_Interconnect.2FRAM_buses
If that is reliable, tri-channel provides 50% increase in bandwidth over dual-channel but I think due other bottlenecks, the difference in real life is a lot smaller
Here we go again, the discussion about "xMac" has again been revived!
I agree that most people don't need ECC etc but now that there is quad core iMac, I doubt there is even need for one anymore. Before when iMacs used mobile CPUs, the gap between iMac and Mac Pro was a lot bigger. Now the biggest difference is upgradeability. Apple would anyway limit the upgradeability of xMac by giving only few overpriced GPU options
50% faster, ok thats interesting. i wonder when we will actually see the software take advantage of the hardware improvements
i recall a conversation with Tesselator a while back (where is he btw?) where he stated the scenarios where ECC is actually useful. pretty much, only the military needed it.. and not many other people.Here we go again, the discussion about "xMac" has again been revived!
the desktop iMac has brought it up to speed with the MP, but yea upgradability is non-existent. if apple were to bring out a quad core 960/980x or similar (maybe hexa-AMD?), with upgradability for 2xGPU, 4 DDR DIMMs, and maybe 4xHDD bays - that would be VERY attractive to a lot of potential switchers i feel.
You are already talking about Mac Pro
i7 960 is similar to Xeon W3570 (Xeon has 6.4GT/s QPI instead of 4.8GT/s). It should be with e.g. i7 930 which is sub-300$ CPU. Then add ATI 58xx to that and voilà.Well, we can always dream
Apple hasn't showed any love to xMac, or desktops in general lately. Make iMac thicker so it can use desktop GPU and that would satisfy gamers too
You are already talking about Mac Pro
Well, we can always dream
the "consumer" version would cost a lot less though, so technically and cost wise im not talking about the quad core MP
dream we shall
the "consumer" version would cost a lot less though, so technically and cost wise im not talking about the quad core MP
dream we shall
Well, quad core Mac Pro's CPU costs 284$
SO you would stick in 500$ CPU along with latest graphics and price it @1500$? You would pretty much offer the same as current Mac Pro without Xeon and stick better GPU in it and drop the price significantly
Well, quad core Mac Pro's CPU costs 284$
and therefore get ALOT more customers. apple could make a KILLING on that market, as a lot of people will not switch as the iMac isnt powerful enough GPU wise, and the MP is too expensive (and still pretty basic in the GPU sense of things). i do think that there is a large enough margin to implement another line of computers from apple.
too bad they are going mobile eh?
Jeez, I've had USB3.0 (and SATA3 and eSATA) on my PC for months. The new Mac had better have all three or I'm going PC only.
Hmm, well in the article they also quote Steve as saying:
We are focusing primarily (though not exclusively) on iPhone OS this year. Maybe next year we will focus primarily on the Mac. Just the normal cycle of things. No hidden meaning here.
To be honest anyone who think Apple is ditching the Mac is, well, stupid. Did you all forget that it was the iPod that saved the entire company? So they will now always have a very strong focus on the consumer products and why not?
They are also equally selling millions of Mac computers, everyone has had an update, the only ones that haven't are the Mac Pro, Mini and Air.
I would stop believing the rubbish in the media, as Steve yesterday indicated with his own facts an figures and his comment on the media posting rubbish about the company.
I am not going to predict the future of the Mac Pro but equally I am not naive enough to think Apple will stop selling computers
I think you need to look at it this way, Apple has a very strong and good relationship with all the Jo Blogs of the world making apps, it needs and wants to keep tat strength and needs to if anything improve on it with the launch of the iPad, it need the support, hence the WWDC focus.
All they have done is focus on what needs focus, the iPhone HAS to be changed yearly to keep up with the market, and the iPod also is updated in the same manor especially the touch because it's sactuated the market and is the only way to sell them, perhaps that's why it's always before Christmas?
People treat the Mac computers differently IMO, that's why it's not had as much focus. You want the latest Apple consumer gadget, you just want an Apple computer as a consumer.
But I can see the Pro being updated at some point soon, if not then I guess the i7 iMac would be the next best thing?
We are focusing primarily (though not exclusively) on iPhone OS this year. Maybe next year we will focus primarily on the Mac. Just the normal cycle of things. No hidden meaning here.
To be honest anyone who think Apple is ditching the Mac is, well, stupid. Did you all forget that it was the iPod that saved the entire company? So they will now always have a very strong focus on the consumer products and why not?
They are also equally selling millions of Mac computers, everyone has had an update, the only ones that haven't are the Mac Pro, Mini and Air.
I would stop believing the rubbish in the media, as Steve yesterday indicated with his own facts an figures and his comment on the media posting rubbish about the company.
I am not going to predict the future of the Mac Pro but equally I am not naive enough to think Apple will stop selling computers
I think you need to look at it this way, Apple has a very strong and good relationship with all the Jo Blogs of the world making apps, it needs and wants to keep tat strength and needs to if anything improve on it with the launch of the iPad, it need the support, hence the WWDC focus.
All they have done is focus on what needs focus, the iPhone HAS to be changed yearly to keep up with the market, and the iPod also is updated in the same manor especially the touch because it's sactuated the market and is the only way to sell them, perhaps that's why it's always before Christmas?
People treat the Mac computers differently IMO, that's why it's not had as much focus. You want the latest Apple consumer gadget, you just want an Apple computer as a consumer.
But I can see the Pro being updated at some point soon, if not then I guess the i7 iMac would be the next best thing?
That's quite the ringing endorsement of Mac by SJ
SJ says a lot of things. At the All Things Digital Conference last week he said that Apple can't focus on everything. He said they focus on areas where there is an upward trajectory. He also said that desktop computers are going to be used less and less by fewer and fewer people. It doesn't seem like SJ thinks computers have an upward trajectory any more.
The writing is more than on the walls. Computers and the desktop are not dead. 1 Million PC's are sold each day. Mac is dead; killed by SJ. IMHO he's jumping off the bandwagon too soon. He's selling short. It seems a shame to give Windows back the market share OS X fought for during the past decade in such a growth industry.
Agreed.., an upgrade is imminent.
Establish which computer(s) best suits your needs / fancy; proceed with an upgrade path accordingly.
But they were late.. And the MP update is late. Right?
One and then Two..
"Less Sophisticated" = fewer transistors used. The reason, is to make smaller parts for the mainstream market, which means more parts per wafer.
That ultimately translates to lower costs per part. Now they can choose to transfer this to the MSRP, keep it as increased margins, or a bit of both (compromise that makes both sides happy).
As per channels, the mainstream parts will have fewer, as it's not beneficial for such parts. It's the enterprise market that can benefit from it, and where Intel has expanded the channel count on future parts in the Xeon lines.
Turbo Boost = feature, as is Hyper Threading,... Some, such as ECC, are present in multiple parts, but not Enabled (i.e. i7-920 vs. W3520), and is continued with the newer parts (i.e. Xeon vs. Enthusiast Desktop parts that use LGA1366).
The reason is because it's the ONLY way to get a Dual Processor system. Desktop parts are impossible to do this with (technical reasons).
There's also the fact that "Xeon" invokes stablity under 100% load conditions in high availability environments (24/7 operation, as you tend to find with servers). Even if it's not used that way, it makes users feel confident that the system is reliable.
No. Look at future parts from Intel. They're actually going to scale it up (enterprise grade parts, not mainstream, as there's no need for it).
What you have to keep in mind, is that Triple Channel DDR3 (and expanded versions due in future parts) are meant for servers (i.e. Symetric Multi Processing). This, particularly with software that's been optimized for memory transfers, can actually utilize Triple Channel DDR3 now.
However, as software is almost always behind the hardware, there's precious little that's actually capable of utilizing it ATM (software needs to be updated, and that's going to take time).
It comes back to the software. Most can't utilize it, and some types of applications never will (i.e. "idiot at the other end of the keyboard" reliant ...err... applications that wait for user input
).The devices are where the $$$ is for Apple, as well as the content consumption (i.e. Apps sales and and advertising). As Apple's in business to make money, that's what they're going to follow.
Someone posted that SJ is about the products, not profits. BS IMO. He likes certain products (indictated by the recent focus/comments), but there's a financial motive for him as well. It could be argued job security as well, as if he was making decisions that caused the stock to tank/profits drop, he'd be fired. The Executive Board is all about ROI.
Not really.
Keep in mind, from the official date Intel releases parts, there's a lead time involved, which is typically 13 weeks. It was shorter than that in this case for other vendors such as Dell. Otherwise, they wouldn't be available quite yet.
You don't see systems available the same day as the parts are officially available. It's impossible, unless they made a contract with Intel to obtain parts earlier than any other vendor. Apple has done this in the past, but apparently not this time (nor did it happen with Nehalem IIRC).
Harpertowns were, and why they had systems available before anyone else.