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Mac Pro Rising
- Thread starter No One
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Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, Apple was a dead horse that was beating its rider, and we loved them for it. Today, they're the arrogant riders beating dead horses. I can't help but feel they're going in the wrong way.
JimmyPainter
macrumors member
Why did you have to go and bring up Amiga and SGI? Go ahead and throw Sun and Digital in there so you can get me full on totally depressed. As if what's happening at Apple isn't eating at me enough. I left the Hackintosh world behind when the Classic Mac Pro got cheap enough for me to afford. I will ride out another 10 years if possible on an upgraded Tube if they keep dropping in price. Unless something insanely great happens with some other OS, I will move back to Hackintosh a few years down the road if Apple doesn't wake up on their Hardware. The honest to goodness truth is though, I will stay with the BEST version of UNIX ever developed as long as it supports what ever hardware I have in the future. My Mac Pro 3,1 with it's 7970 is fast enough today and El Cap will do me for another 2 or 3 years at least. When it no longer fits the bill, I will move to NEWER used hardware. I was just looking at my MacBook Air's uptime yesterday ... 167 Days. Just close the lid, plug up some power for recharge, and every time the lid opens she is still running just as stable as she ever did. I have ran every version of Windows from 3.0 to 10. 20 different flavors of Linux. BE OS, OS 2, Solaris, and many many others. Nothing except Solaris was ever this stable but to be fair, the Solaris was running on SUN Boxes. Maybe there is something to be said for Same OS company on Same Hardware company. All I know is ... people have to make themselves happy. I can't choose your OS for you. This is why I continue to show up here hoping for a miracle.
Speaking of Digital (DEC) an OS designed for the hardware & hardware designed for the OS certainly delivers the most stable computing environment as anyone who ever used VMS on VAX or Alpha can confirm.
Great memories indeed...
Those were the days.
Like it or not the proprietary stuff always takes the best stability over open solutions.
But not all can be good...
Those were the days.
Like it or not the proprietary stuff always takes the best stability over open solutions.
But not all can be good...
FaithfulCalebTN
macrumors newbie
The hearts are listening to the Song of the Sirens. Apple will release an updated nMP when all the components are ready. That's it. Why not focus the nMP threads on discussions as to the status of the processors, gpus, memory, ssd aspects instead of Mexican Novella Style MNS storylines that simply have no basis in reality. Just because a manufacturer announces a product, doesn't mean the re-tooled component Apple needs is ready. Apple has taken its R&D hit on the nMP, it doesnt need volume, it needs acceptance and enhancement. The will be a hardware announcement in August, of this year.
pat500000
Suspended
Parts are ready for nMP....by the way...how do you know it will come out?
Hope you're right.
It's been said before, Apple is indeed waiting for the right parts.
But actually, the right parts for the great nMP (in my opinion that is) will only be available in a year or more with Skylake-W.
As I mentioned before, those will have 44 PCIe lanes and another 24 on the PCH.
Imagine having full 32 lanes for the GPUs and the remaining 12 on the CPU for 3 TB3 controllers. On the PCH we could fit 2 10GbE controllers and 2 (or even 4) full steam SSDs.
Cool, hem?
[doublepost=1469040752][/doublepost]By the way, with Developer beta 3 and now Public beta 2 of Sierra, anything new?
I guess only closer to the release we will see important info, if any.
It's been said before, Apple is indeed waiting for the right parts.
But actually, the right parts for the great nMP (in my opinion that is) will only be available in a year or more with Skylake-W.
As I mentioned before, those will have 44 PCIe lanes and another 24 on the PCH.
Imagine having full 32 lanes for the GPUs and the remaining 12 on the CPU for 3 TB3 controllers. On the PCH we could fit 2 10GbE controllers and 2 (or even 4) full steam SSDs.
Cool, hem?
[doublepost=1469040752][/doublepost]By the way, with Developer beta 3 and now Public beta 2 of Sierra, anything new?
I guess only closer to the release we will see important info, if any.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Did you mean to say that "the PCH is partly a PCIe switch, expanding 4 lanes from the CPU to 24 lanes on the board"?
Joe, it's been like that forever, there's no way around it.
Only when you have the full PCH integrated in the CPU die that particular bottleneck will disappear. Still, it's better than having "only" PCIe 2 connectivity.
And as Aiden will surely put it, dual CPU would be the best option. But then again, CPU-CPU link will also take part.
However, each device will use x4 PCIe3 (SSDs and 10GbE - the PCH in the nMP is used for almost nothing else, save BT and WiFi, audio and USB) and if there is no concurrent use (I'm sure sometimes it will happen) then the penalty should not be that great.
Maybe when Xeons get some 64 PCIe3 lanes, or get to PCIe4.
It seems Zen is rumors to have up to 128 lanes, and maybe even PCIe4.
[doublepost=1469094096][/doublepost]Kaby Lake on time?! Yields seem to be good.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10503/intel-begins-shipment-of-seventh-generation-core-kaby-lake
Only when you have the full PCH integrated in the CPU die that particular bottleneck will disappear. Still, it's better than having "only" PCIe 2 connectivity.
And as Aiden will surely put it, dual CPU would be the best option. But then again, CPU-CPU link will also take part.
However, each device will use x4 PCIe3 (SSDs and 10GbE - the PCH in the nMP is used for almost nothing else, save BT and WiFi, audio and USB) and if there is no concurrent use (I'm sure sometimes it will happen) then the penalty should not be that great.
Maybe when Xeons get some 64 PCIe3 lanes, or get to PCIe4.
It seems Zen is rumors to have up to 128 lanes, and maybe even PCIe4.
[doublepost=1469094096][/doublepost]Kaby Lake on time?! Yields seem to be good.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10503/intel-begins-shipment-of-seventh-generation-core-kaby-lake
Would anyone voluntarily pick a trash can over a cheese grater?
I'm considering a Mac Pro. Used, the cheese graters seem far better than the new Mac Pro. Sad.
The trash can is not an innovation, the size of the case was not a problem and was mostly a feature for pro users previously. I'd bet it costs Apple a load more to produce than the old cheese grater too.
I'm considering a Mac Pro. Used, the cheese graters seem far better than the new Mac Pro. Sad.
The trash can is not an innovation, the size of the case was not a problem and was mostly a feature for pro users previously. I'd bet it costs Apple a load more to produce than the old cheese grater too.
If you want Apple Care. Some people have businesses and want that support that goes with it. Despite what people say here not everyone needs internal expansion.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
[MOD NOTE]
enough with the bickering, a large number of posts were removed as they served no purpose
enough with the bickering, a large number of posts were removed as they served no purpose
koyoot
macrumors 603
I would pick. I like the concept of efficiency, and for my needs dual for Example Fiji or GP104 chips would be enough.
briloronmacrumo
macrumors 6502a
Thanks for the walk down memory lane. Really enjoyed the stable RSTS/E programming environment.
As much as I also love the cMP I'd also take an nMP any day.
Actually, as soon as it comes out I'm going for it.
Actually, as soon as it comes out I'm going for it.
I don't think it's an easy choice for the Cheese Grater. You won't get Thunderbolt, you're on the edge of the support range for a 2010 (and technically out of support for the 2009), you're anchored to a backplane that was neglected by Apple even at the time, and no AppleCare.
Cheese Grater has advantages for PCIe cards and price, but that's about it. At this rate, the cheese grater Mac Pros may only get another few years of support. I wouldn't be surprised to see support disappear in 10.13 or 10.14. By 2018 even the 2012 "rev" will be six years old.
It’s already out?
[doublepost=1469124656][/doublepost]
This. Dual drives and I’ll buy one. I think. I still hate the use of proprietary SSDs and GPUs.
monokakata
macrumors 68020
I ran VMS (in its various flavors) on a microVAX 3100, then an early Alphaserver, later DEC Alphastations and finally a Compaq Alphaserver. I was in the VMS world for 16 years (earlier, for 9 years, RT11 and RSX) and I'm here to say that I never had a system crash, never, not ever. App crashes, of course. But VMS never went down. And I beat the crap out of my systems physically -- it was a mobile operation. The mVAX 3100 was transported, set up, run, and taken home again something like 300 times with never a hardware or software failure, and that involved such unhappy circumstances as running it and its peripherals in a tent in Pittsburgh in a park in a heavy rain with a couple of inches of water running through the tent. Were we nervous? Yes, we were but everything worked perfectly, as it always did. Nobody could build hardware like DEC. Of course they cost a lot and the software licenses were breathtakingly expensive.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
And since I was a software engineer in the core VMS group (VAXclusters, to be specific) thank you for bankrolling my salary with those licenses.
If software has value for you, shouldn't you expect to pay for it? Certainly Apple is on that page....
tralfaz
macrumors member
Oh brother there are a lot of old farts like me on this forum. DEC, VAX/VMS RSX/11M, PDP, those terms bring back a flood of memories. Most of which suck. I wrote a whole lot of SYS$QIO calls with ASTs(ASychronous Traps) in them old days. Days working in SCIFs, big mettle boxes to keep all the RF inside, and away from the spooky spy van with all the aerials sticking out the top.
I remember working in one of those for weeks before they put in the separator wall between the machine area and the terminal area. Since the machines were more expensive than the engineers they kept the entire SCIF a frigid 50 degrees. You could only code for an hour at a time, before your hands became to stiff and numb to type anything. The solution was to periodically run behind the VAX-750 and warm your hands in exhaust vents from the VAX's squirrel cage fans.
And that's not even the worst memory that comes to mind. Not even close.
I remember working in one of those for weeks before they put in the separator wall between the machine area and the terminal area. Since the machines were more expensive than the engineers they kept the entire SCIF a frigid 50 degrees. You could only code for an hour at a time, before your hands became to stiff and numb to type anything. The solution was to periodically run behind the VAX-750 and warm your hands in exhaust vents from the VAX's squirrel cage fans.
And that's not even the worst memory that comes to mind. Not even close.
monokakata
macrumors 68020
Oh, for sure. You bet. And VMS (and FORTRAN IV and then later F77, plus the earlier OSs) had great value. The issue for my very small company was that we typically only grossed $50K - $70K a year, so those licenses did represent a serious investment. Fortunately, we only needed 3 or 4 seats.
I still have the license PAKs in a safe, although a couple of months ago I tried to fire up the Compaq AS10 and it wouldn't boot (it hasn't been in regular use since 2006, although it booted fine a year ago).
I have another bootable disk in it but a sign of the times is that I have no RS232 device of any kind anymore, and can't get into the console and choose the other disk. I've been tempted to go down to the local we-got-it-all used computer store and see if they've got anything I can use. I haven't finished taking all the data off it, although in truth I'm probably the only one who cares.
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