Mac Pro Suitable Xeon (Nehalem) Processors Due March 29th

[BenRoethig]

Sometimes Apple gets significantly early delivery of products from Intel before other manufacturers get delivery. I wonder if that'll happen in this case, which could mean an even earlier release of the mac pro update.

Perhaps. Apple buying the initial lots of chips could explain the large delay from from the virtually identically bloomsfield chips.

The only real difference between the two is that a Xeon will work in a multi-socket computer. The current Core i7 will only work in a single-socket motherboard.

The Gainestown "Xeon" (we won't know the real name until Intel announces it) is not a "better" chip - it just has the ability to run on a dual-socket motherboard, and it has a much, much higher price.

Nobody is asking for a quad Core i7 mini-tower as a "stopgap" - there's a huge hole in Apple's desktop product line.

Not only that, but especially with this release the bloomfield Core i7 (also Xeon 3500 with ECC support) and the Xeon 5500 (Gainestown) are identical with the exception of the quick path link. Likewise the current x58 desktop motherboard (Tylersburg SP) is identical to the new server/workstation board (Tylserburg DP) with the exception of a second quick path link. Same memory, same socket.

 

[darwinian]

Does anyone know if there's an NVIDIA board that could handle some of the newer Xeons? I'm asking this because the obvious laptop trend (and quite likely the iMac/Mac mini trend) was to move to NVIDIA chipsets. If such a solution exists from NVIDIA, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

Regarding graphics cards, even though OpenCL would support some ATI cards, doesn't Apple favor cohesion across the line whenever it can? Only the aging (but current) iMacs and the MPs are still using ATI cards. I'd bet on something NVIDIA in the new MPs.

 

[t0mat0]

If the next MP doesn't have a Blu-Ray burner, even as BTO, I'll be unimpressed. This would be the perfect opportunity for Apple to update FCP w/ the ability to burn Blu-Ray and also release some new pro (read: matte) displays and top it off w/ a new bit-kicking MP w/ BD burner.

I know Jobs said BD is a "whole bag of hurt," or whatever, but Apple has to understand that people want the ability to not only edit their video in HD but also to burn it onto HD media as well. FCP and FCX are getting a little long in the tooth. FCP, especially. It's what two years old now w/ no major update.

They can, can't they? They just need to get a drive and put it in their Mac Pro.
Just because it isn't default doesn't mean it's an option to actually do for the user.

 

[BenRoethig]

Does anyone know if there's an NVIDIA board that could handle some of the newer Xeons? I'm asking this because the obvious laptop trend (and quite likely the iMac/Mac mini trend) was to move to NVIDIA chipsets. If such a solution exists from NVIDIA, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

Intel is not licensing quickpath or socket 1366. That's why tylersburg has SLI support. Nvidia would have been shut out if they didn't work with intel on this solution.

 

[Macmel]

Sometimes Apple gets significantly early delivery of products from Intel before other manufacturers get delivery. I wonder if that'll happen in this case, which could mean an even earlier release of the mac pro update.

Not sure about that. Normally other manufacturers are using new processors before Apple. That's one of the reasons people complain about Apple being slow in their updates. I mean, there has to be something new available to update to in order to complain. When I bought my MBP early08, penryn processors were being offered by DELL and others for one month already.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

These Xeon based nehalem's will cost an absolute packet. Every new release of apple's products recently in the laptop department has also seen a considerable cost increase (even more so when you take into account the fact that remotes and cable converters must be bought separately now). Expect the mac pro is cost more in the refresh too.....

The new Xeon's may well be suitable for high end pro work, but I echo the sentiments of many here when I say they are not affordable... nowhere near.

I also dont want an iMac with its own screen.

I'd like a mini if it were priced effectively, but as its been about 18months since it was released Im not holding my breath. (plus then I can barely upgrade it when needed)... its a hobson's choice really.

Christ Apple.. no wonder your desktop sales are plummeting.. you are not building anything that 90% of people actually want or can afford.

And their excuse... a mid range tower will eat into their pro sales.. NEWSFLASH APPLE.. your pro sales are diving.. and we are in a recession.

Mid Range Tower please....

I really want a midrange tower. with upgradable video card slot, and.... blu-ray.

 

[Macmel]

I don't think Apple is going to put Blu-Ray drives. Ever.
They come standard in PCs since a couple of years now (I mean, if you buy something for more than $500), and Apple could just introduce them right away. It's just that they don't want to. If now is not the right timing, with this technology growing, it certainly won't be when the technology is not further necessary because of HD video in the internet.
Don't mention the backup thing because we all know that DVD is still alive due to its video capabilities and not the backup (which was impressive a few years ago coming from the CD). Most people use external hard drives now for backup.

 

[NoNameBrand]

We know nothing about Snow Leopard, but Harpertown was 2x performance on the same software over Clovertown

2x? I think you've got an error in your math, or your source does. Harpertown is up to 20% faster (1.2x), clock-for-clock than Clovertown, depending on task. See articles on Anandtech and Barefeats.com. Even Apple doesn't claim that much!

so what's wrong with having the software designed to improve performance picking up Nehalem's slack?

Nehalem's slack? Based on everything I've read, there's going to be a greater jump from Harpertown to Nehalem than there was from Clovertown to Harpertown. It's expected to be 20-30% faster, clock for clock (1.2-1.3x).

 

[eff pc]

Really I'm not sure why there is an attempt to correlate a drop in sales here with the hardware age. For server grade hardware the Mac Pro isn't that bad, it certainly wouldn't keep people from buying it if they needed a powerful machine.

There are far bigger concerns for Apple in the rest of the line up. They seemed to have lost their groove with respect to the Mini or that marketplace and the iMac is extremely limited with respect to it's architecture. Even that doesn't cover Apples biggest problem which is the total lack of a midrange product. Call it xMac if you want but the fact remains there is a huge hole in Apples line up. That would be a performance targetted machine to fill in performance and capability wise between iMac and the Pro. Today this should arrive as an i7 based machine with multiple disk drive slots and a good GPU card. Ideally it would be able to address 32GB of RAM too.

By the way when Apples new hardware does come, I'm expecting to see greatly improved main memory capabilities across the line up. It is the one thing that Apple has had it's head up it's back side for a very long time. I'm not sure where the Mac Pro should top out at but the recent announcements from Samsung indicate that the chips are there for really huge memory arrays.



Dave

Age does have something to do with it. As it gets older more and more are being sold and all the people that want one pretty much have one by this point so they are not going to buy another one with the same specs so a refresh would increase sales. Also the iMac is the "mid-range" mac (excluding notebooks). Mac mini is considered the low end mac desktop but on scale with all computers still above par

 

[porky]

Consumer chip? Are you serious? It's not THAT cheap you know. I'm selling it, so i know And also to companies.
I've seen benchmark scores with i7 and EFI-X, and I don't think if you buy quality parts, esp. memory the system is 'unstable'. It's perfect for professional home users but also for small companies. It's the missing desktop.

As far as I know Core i7 is a consumer chip. The Mac Pro is a professional/workstation computer.

So people who keep insisting Apple put in a consumer chip in this machine to hold them over until a new professional-grade chip becomes available please **** already, it will never happen. It would be highly inconsistent with what this machine is intended for and who its intended for.

It'd be like saying "hey Apple, update your computers with Ubuntu Linux until Snow Leopard is done to hold us over"

Gee, lets see the progression here.. Mac OS 10.5 Leopard... Ubuntu Linux... Mac OS 10.6 Snow Leopard. Does that progression make sense to you? No!

Neither does Workstation Processor -> Consumer Processor -> Workstation Processor.

Let's be logical here. Obviously if the Mac Pro is updated it will be updated with components of the same grade as in the previous version.

Despite what benchmarks may say speed-wise, the Core i7 is meant to be a desktop processor for consumers and it does not support key features required for a reliable workstation or server computer such as error correcting memory. For this, among other reasons, IT WILL NEVER BE IN A MAC PRO GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS THANKS.

STOP THE CORE i7 B.S. for Mac Pros, its a waste of everyone's time and this forum's bandwidth.

The iMac and the Mac Mini are the consumer grade products, so whatever consumer grade processors are available are fair game in those discussions, but leave them out of the Mac Pro. Mac Pro = Pro Machine = Pro Processors.

 

[commander.data]

Not only that, but especially with this release the bloomfield Core i7 (also Xeon 3500 with ECC support) and the Xeon 5500 (Gainestown) are identical with the exception of the quick path link. Likewise the current x58 desktop motherboard (Tylersburg SP) is identical to the new server/workstation board (Tylserburg DP) with the exception of a second quick path link. Same memory, same socket.

Well technically, Intel's other justification is that the DP Xeons go through a much more rigorous validation process than consumer products or even SP Xeons for both the CPUs and the chipsets so they should be more reliable for server or sensitive workstation applications. Of course, it's not like consumer or SP Xeon products are particularly unreliable, so we may be paying for something (more testing) that we don't particularly need.

And I too believe Apple will pre-release the official launch of DP Xeons. I believe Apple's done it before for Cloverton so it's not unlikely, especially because getting first dibs on DP Xeon will close the gap on people who were complaining Apple is slow to adopt Nehalem, even though Nehalem isn't the type of CPU that Apple currently uses in their product line, ie. high-end SP consumer desktop chips. Next Tuesday launch?

 

[Chicane-UK]

What would you be expecting to see in this tower that the single CPU version of the Mac Pro offers at the lower cost of $2,299.00? Admittedly its $100 more than the 24" iMac... I would say it would need a lower price point still and perhaps that is where the i7 could come in perhaps as soon as we see the prices for these CPUs go down some more.

I think pricewise, it'd have to come in near the midrange of the iMac pricing to be realistic. Considering you'd be losing the built in display, and not gaining anything other than modularity / upgradability in the system, that's not completely unrealistic.

As you say, the top of the range iMac is only $100 less than the bottom of the range Mac Pro. So for your $100 more you gain upgradability and two extra CPU cores, but you lose a 24" display, 180GB of HDD space, and some considerable graphics horsepower as the standard GPU in the Mac Pro is weaker than the 8800GS in the top iMac.

I think I'd be looking for a single quad core CPU, 2 or 4 RAM slots permitting up to 8GB, upgradable graphics card like the Mac Pro, only 2 slots for HDD's and a single superdrive (which was fixed / default for every system) upgradable to a blu-ray drive as a BTO option. I wouldn't be expecting a multitude of PCI-Express ports for upgrading the system in other ways - just those core components as upgradeable options.

I appreciate I'm just speaking 'for me' here as these would be my wants in such a system, but I doubt I'm alone.

 

[iMacmatician]

March 29 Gainestown release + 6~13 weeks = WWDC Mac Pro and Xserve announcement?

And I too believe Apple will pre-release the official launch of DP Xeons. I believe Apple's done it before for Cloverton so it's not unlikely, especially because getting first dibs on DP Xeon will close the gap on people who were complaining Apple is slow to adopt Nehalem, even though Nehalem isn't the type of CPU that Apple currently uses in their product line, ie. high-end SP consumer desktop chips. Next Tuesday launch?

Apple got the 3.0 GHz Clovertown early, as well as the 2.8 GHz Merom XE (I think). The difference is that these CPUs are just speed bumps on existing CPUs, while Gainestown is a new CPU. I don't think Apple has gotten new CPUs (by that I mean new process/microarchitecture) early.

 

[splintah]

single chip non xeon

i want a single chip mac pro

xeons are too expensive
and only few people need more than 2 or 4 cores
most apps are still singlethreaded

 

[motulist]

Not sure about that. Normally other manufacturers are using new processors before Apple. That's one of the reasons people complain about Apple being slow in their updates. I mean, there has to be something new available to update to in order to complain. When I bought my MBP early08, penryn processors were being offered by DELL and others for one month already.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I'm referring to things like this:

http://news.worldofapple.com/archives/2008/04/28/apple-gets-first-dibs-on-intel-cpu/

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37152/135/

 

[AidenShaw]

I'd expect a savings of $1100, to be frank.

What would you be expecting to see in this tower that the single CPU version of the Mac Pro offers at the lower cost of $2,299.00? Admittedly its $100 more than the 24" iMac... I would say it would need a lower price point still and perhaps that is where the i7 could come in perhaps as soon as we see the prices for these CPUs go down some more.

The quad Mac Pro is a terrible value, unless you need to fill it with max memory.

The price of the entry Dell Core i7 mini-tower has been lowered to $899. Apple could put the same parts in a premium designer case and sell it for $1199.

Starting Price $899

Ship Date: 2/5/2009

Components

• Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit
• Intel® Core™i7-920 Processor(8MB L2 Cache, 2.66GHz)
• 1Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis
• 3GB DDR3 Tri-Channel SDRAM at 1066MHz - 3 DIMMs
• 500GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
• Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
• ATI Radeon HD 3450 256MB
• Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
• Dell USB Consumer Multimedia Keyboard
• Dell Premium Laser Mouse

 

[Modacke]

Even if Apple does update the Mac Pro in march, I think I will wait for wwdc in June because Snow Leopard will most likely be introduced then. Apple will most likely be giving the Mac Pro an update without a event, because of Steve's illness.

Just My thoughts...........

 

[AidenShaw]

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I'm referring to things like this:

http://news.worldofapple.com/archives/2008/04/28/apple-gets-first-dibs-on-intel-cpu/

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37152/135/

But those were before Apple so dished on Intel and switched to Nvidia for chipsets.

I don't think that Intel is going to do any special favors for Apple in the near term....

 

[commander.data]

Apple got the 3.0 GHz Clovertown early, as well as the 2.8 GHz Merom XE (I think). The difference is that these CPUs are just speed bumps on existing CPUs, while Gainestown is a new CPU. I don't think Apple has gotten new CPUs (by that I mean new process/microarchitecture) early.

Apple may have gotten the Yonah Core Duo early in the initial MacBook Pro and iMac since I believe Core Duo's official launch was at IDF 2006 and Macworld happened a week before or something. Although admittedly, Yonah samples were already in the wild and actual availability in store shelves didn't really happen until February.

 

[AidenShaw]

Apple may have gotten the Yonah Core Duo early in the initial MacBook Pro and iMac since I believe Core Duo's official launch was at IDF 2006 and Macworld happened a week before or something. Although admittedly, Yonah samples were already in the wild and actual availability in store shelves didn't really happen until February.

Definitely Apple did not get Yonah early.

Yonah was announced at CES, and a number of manufacturers showed systems. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/166625/

The Imac and MacBook with Yonah was announced the following week at MacWorld.

You are right, though, about Yonah availability being very low in January.

 

[kiteless]

The current mac pros are actually not over-priced at all.

Compare them to workstations from Dell, HP or Lenovo. Some of these are only single Xeons for the same price or double Xeons for at least 1000 dollars more. The Apple Mac Pro is EASILY the cheapest workstation PC I have been able to find.

Sure compare it to a cheaper i7 by Dell, but you get a computer that users complain is so loud you can't think, and doesn't have any server grade parts in it. ECC ram, etc.

I do still agree that there is a HUGE hole in the apple line up and it makes me angry to see them doing nothing to their mini and imacs...

Anyways....

 

[Scottsdale]

What would you be expecting to see in this tower that the single CPU version of the Mac Pro offers at the lower cost of $2,299.00? Admittedly its $100 more than the 24" iMac... I would say it would need a lower price point still and perhaps that is where the i7 could come in perhaps as soon as we see the prices for these CPUs go down some more.

Well, I know it's not the same but, I received an email from Costco over the weekend with Dell desktops. The particular one that I thought why can't Apple do that, was a Core I7 for $999. So why can't Apple make a headless mid-range Mac and sell it for $1299?

What Apple would get is Windows to OS X "switchers!" A bunch of people want this product and would make the switch. Apple is really good at making it's core fan base happy when it updates its Mac Pros and iMacs, but it could really expand its fan base by offering a "headless" Core I7 Mac now.

The Mac Pro isn't affordable, and the iMac lacks the ability for expansion. There is a market of people who have built PCs or have always bought desktop case computers because they enjoy upgrading an optical drive, adding a new card, and swapping the video card. These people enjoy the incremental possibilities for a true desktop.

I believe that Apple needs to consider a desktop or headless Mac now more than ever. In this economy, it needs to capitalize where it can expand its fan base by creating a new generation of Mac lovers.

I know Apple has ignored this opportunity in the past, but it will be able to sell more cinema displays when people are ordering their new "desktop" Macs. An introduction of a new line of Apple Cinema Displays are expected, and this is how Apple can encourage the desktop Mac buyers to spend more making up the difference in total sales price for each new Mac sale.

I know it probably will not happen, but it sure is fun to dream about it.

 

[jaw04005]

I don't think Apple is going to put Blu-Ray drives. Ever.They come standard in PCs since a couple of years now (I mean, if you buy something for more than $500), and Apple could just introduce them right away.

I wouldn't consider Blu-ray a standard on PCs even now. It's usually an upgrade option for around $150 to $200 more.

But the rest of your point still stands.

 

[bassanoclapper]

Nope, June.

Is that WWDC?

 

[splintah]

The quad Mac Pro is a terrible value, unless you need to fill it with max memory.

The price of the entry Dell Core i7 mini-tower has been lowered to $899. Apple could put the same parts in a premium designer case and sell it for $1199.


http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/314x314/desktop-studioxps-435mt-left-314.jpg

Starting Price $899

Ship Date: 2/5/2009

Components

• Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-Bit
• Intel® Core™i7-920 Processor(8MB L2 Cache, 2.66GHz)
• 1Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis
• 3GB DDR3 Tri-Channel SDRAM at 1066MHz - 3 DIMMs
• 500GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
• Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
• ATI Radeon HD 3450 256MB
• Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
• Dell USB Consumer Multimedia Keyboard
• Dell Premium Laser Mouse

I would LOVE to have something like that