Westmere will be the first 6-core Intel DP and high-end desktop CPU, in H1 2010. Core count isn't increasing that much, at least not yet.
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Mac Pro Suitable Xeon (Nehalem) Processors Due March 29th
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Which just goes to show Intel isn't likely to use an 8 core system in a DP setup...
The 6 core part has been available for 4 months now. If Intel was feeling any real pressure from AMD it would have been released as an extreme part.
Precisely. These 8-core Gainestown rumors are unfounded.
You mean some Dunnington chips rebranded as Core 2 CPUs? You have a point there
March 29th? What a nice birthday present that'll make - thanks Apple
Yeah, but - not for Canada.
http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/Search.cfm?Ne=5000&Ntt=Blu-Ray&Ntk=Primary&Ns=P_Price|0&N=6866
Just because Apple doesn't sell it, doesn't mean you can't get it.
Wow.
I don't know if this is right or not but I think it is. Amazon is showing the Nehalem Xeon with a price tag of $1500. We all know the Mac Pro brings 2 Xeons and currently starts at $2800. So if 2 Nehalem Xeons cost $3000 then that means the Mac Pro will possible cost something like $4000+. Which will be a huge hit to your wallet especially today with this crappy economy. Lets just wait and see. These new Xeons are said to be stupid fast so this Mac Pro will be a Monster.
I don't know if this is right or not but I think it is. Amazon is showing the Nehalem Xeon with a price tag of $1500. We all know the Mac Pro brings 2 Xeons and currently starts at $2800. So if 2 Nehalem Xeons cost $3000 then that means the Mac Pro will possible cost something like $4000+. Which will be a huge hit to your wallet especially today with this crappy economy. Lets just wait and see. These new Xeons are said to be stupid fast so this Mac Pro will be a Monster.
Economy nothing. The people that these computers are designed for will be able to afford them.
The 3.2GHz Gainestown, the W5580, will be $1,600 per chip, meaning $3,200 just for the two chips.
The base model will be around $2,999.
They hit the price points, but the capability gap is still huge. Anyone who thinks that the iMac is a suitable desktop replacement needs their head examined. Its the best looking computer on the market and the best design for a family machine, but for the traditional lower end PowerMac user, I can describe it as nothing less than an insult.
Sheesh! Now I know why Tallest Skil requested on the Mac Pro thread that discussions for xMac be held elsewhere. This "mid level desktop" conversation totally hijacked this thread!!!!!!!!! Someone who gives a darn, please create a dedicated thread for it and stop muddying up the Mac Pro discussions.
The most expensive Xeon will be $3200 a pair. The base model Mac Pro will use cheaper Xeons.
Sheesh! Now I know why Tallest Skil requested on the Mac Pro thread that discussions for xMac be held elsewhere. This "mid level desktop" conversation totally hijacked this thread!!!!!!!!! Someone who gives a darn, please create a dedicated thread for it and stop muddying up the Mac Pro discussions.
George Lucas and the five other people who need a dual Xeon setup don't frequent message boards. It would be a very lonely thread if we're just talking about the high end.
Cheaper, hehe....
If wiki is even remotely accurate, not a whole lot cheaper... The Mac Pro may increase in price, unless Apple chooses to go with the E55xx models versus the X55xx (and W5580) models.
I meant cheaper Xeons than the top-end $1600 ones.
The base price will likely increase from the current one to the new one.
xMac
- 1 Core i7 (model 920)
- 3 DIMM slots (3/6/12 GB RAM)
- 1 PCIe 2.0 x16 slot
- 1 PCIe x4 slot
- 2 PCIe x1 slots
- 1 optical drive
- 2 hard drives
- 5 USB (2 front, 3 back)
- 2 FireWire 800 (1 front, 1 back)
- 1 Ethernet port
- audio is combined like the MacBook
- dual octo-core "Beckton" Xeon processors
- anything else Apple wants to add to make it "pro"
Even if it reduces sales of laptops, it is still product line canabalization.
Perhaps, but IMO not particularly likely.
The more plausible consumer demographic is that they're simply being frugal: the 'mini-tower' is an attempt to maximize their bang-for-their-buck by a combination of minimizing the upfront cost (which is what excludes the Mac Pro ... not its size) and they're willing to DIY their own incrimental upgrades sometime in the future, typically when the cost of currently expensive items have come down.
And BTW, the "humongous" Mac Pro in comparison to the Dell XPS Desktop that you cited is only roughly an inch wider, an inch deeper ... and yes, 6" taller, but it also has one more 3.5" internal drive bay. And we should also keep in mind that roughly half of this 'extra height' is not the box, but the Mac's 'handles' design which in part provides for better air circulation which increases product lifespan. But if those few inches bother you that much, simply take a hacksaw to the handles to cut them off.
If they're not customers today, then basically the only reason why is because they're not buying into Apple's value paradigm, of which OS X is the cornerstone.
Because these non-customers effectively want Apple to sell hardware at essentially prices equal to the commodity PC builders, this means that there's virtually zero profit to be had in the sale for Apple...especially since price parity will require Apple to slash the effective cost of the OS X licence on that hardware to what Dell pays Microsoft for Windows (IIRC, around $30). Thus, Apple would probably make a better profit if they were to tolerate illegal Hackintosh configurations, since Apple at least (in theory) gets the $100 sale from a retail copy of OS X: that's a better ROI for Apple.
This whole debate has nothing to do with the technical product line gap, but the business case aspects of what a technical solution to plug the gap may or may not accomplish to the financial bottom line. The pragmatic bottom line from the consumer's perspective is that well over 70% of them are voting with their wallet and saying that ease of internal expansion isn't a high priority. For those of us who do value it (of which I am one), we should simply recognize that its those millions of Apple customers that are the higher priority marketplace segment for Apple.
As such, my recommendation remains unchanged: get your niche consumer segment organized, get a lawyer and have the 10,000 or so xMac 'demanders' vote with their wallet by each putting up $1000 in escrow. Your lawyer can then approach Apple with that $10M in escrow to show that you're serious. Until then, you're going to be ignored.
-hh
i'll simply take my money and put it somewhere else where no lawyers get anything and give it to a company who actually wants my money
i simply don't get the compromise attitude ... and i'm simply not willing to pay premium for compromising left and right and only get old out-of-date hardware for it while lacking modern must have features
I'm one of those people. I've been a Mac owner since 1992, but I've only purchased two computers from Apple because I've usually found better value in the used market. I'm older now and I don't want to take my chances without a warranty (my wife doubly so), but there remains no appealing hardware in the Mac lineup.
One of the things I've learned over the years is that no matter how big my hard drive is, it will fill up. I've also learned that hard drives fail, sometimes a week after you buy them sometimes a few years later. My response to both issues is to buy a new hard drive every year and relegate the old one to backup duties. I've had four hard drives die on me over the years, but thanks to my replacement strategy I've never lost a single file and never more than an hour of my time. The current iMac is a nightmare to upgrade so unless that and a lot of other things change I will continue to boycott it. My wife would then have to decide between a used Mac Pro we can afford and a new one we can't.
Although I see little point in CPU or GPU upgrades today, having an open expansion slot is appealing to me because Apple does two things that drive many of us crazy: remove hardware before it has outlived its usefulness and ignore new hardware that has proven itself in the PC market. An example of the former is FireWire 400 while eSATA seems like a no-brainer given how many Mac owners buy external hard drives.
I think the wait for a Nehalem based Mac Pro will be worth it, but leaving a machine on the price list for well over a year without a price drop or even a minor RAM or hard drive upgrade must be having an effect on sales. It still boggles my mind that anyone is willing to pay full price for the 18 month old Mac mini.
My wish list
Just to weigh in on the whole Mac Pro 'lite' discussion...
My wish list is for something along the lines of a Mac Mini, but with dual DVI ports so I can hook up two 24" monitors to it. Hell I'd even settle for a MacBook [Pro] that can have 2x 24" monitors hooked up.
I don't need grunt, I don't need hardcore graphics, I don't need excessive disk space....I just need screen real-estate.
At the moment the only option is a MacPro but with more options than I need and more cost than justifiable. If I was made of money I'd love a full spec MacPro with multiple 30" monitors and all teh bells and whistles but it would simply be overkill.
anyway, just my 2.2c
AB
Just to weigh in on the whole Mac Pro 'lite' discussion...
My wish list is for something along the lines of a Mac Mini, but with dual DVI ports so I can hook up two 24" monitors to it. Hell I'd even settle for a MacBook [Pro] that can have 2x 24" monitors hooked up.
I don't need grunt, I don't need hardcore graphics, I don't need excessive disk space....I just need screen real-estate.
At the moment the only option is a MacPro but with more options than I need and more cost than justifiable. If I was made of money I'd love a full spec MacPro with multiple 30" monitors and all teh bells and whistles but it would simply be overkill.
anyway, just my 2.2c
AB
Xeons need to support 2x QuickPath Interconnects (one is needed per socket) and Gainstown support slightly faster memory, DDR3 1333 vs DDR3 1066 on i7.
So the ability to run on dual-socket isn't just simple gate being flipped on/off in the silicon... Does this justify the price? That is for consumers to decide
I've said this a thousand times. Blu-Ray is dead! There are so many cheaper, faster and better ways to store data.
The ease of digital delivery by NetFlix, Apple-TV, X-Box, is driving the nail in Blu-Rays coffin.
I know what you're thinking, "but you can't get 1080P from them", yes, that's true, but the majority prefer the convenience over the quality.
Besides you buy a backwards compatible 32GB compact flash card for $70.00 today.
The ease of digital delivery by NetFlix, Apple-TV, X-Box, is driving the nail in Blu-Rays coffin.
I know what you're thinking, "but you can't get 1080P from them", yes, that's true, but the majority prefer the convenience over the quality.
Besides you buy a backwards compatible 32GB compact flash card for $70.00 today.
You seem to have missed a word in Aiden's post. A mini tower would attract additional sales, people who don't buy any Mac today because Apple doesn't offer a product they want.
I'm not a customer today, but I am a Mac owner and have been for 17 years. I buy used pro towers when the price drops enough for me to afford them.
The xMac supporters (not demanders) do NOT want Apple to sell machines at PC prices. We want a real desktop computer at a fair price. 50% more than a similar HP or Dell seems fair to me. That would put a modern quad core Mac desktop at the $1499 price point.
Are you seriously calling the PC tower market niche? Even with the economy in the tank the US market alone is worth at 25 million units this year. I believe an xMac would attract more than enough new sales to warrant having an additional product in the Apple lineup.