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Mac Pro to Equivalent PC Price Comparison (laying the debate to rest)
- Thread starter Mercuric Oxide
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I think the problem is not the price-value of macintosh systems, but the lack of a mid-range upgradable tower on their product lineup. Basically an iMac but not as ugly and in the shape of a tower (yes, iMacs are ugly).
If you could purchase a base system for $700-$800 then upgrade graphics, processor, memory, hard drive bays, optical drive bays, etc than i think a lot of people would shut up.
If you could purchase a base system for $700-$800 then upgrade graphics, processor, memory, hard drive bays, optical drive bays, etc than i think a lot of people would shut up.
Being able to OC the processor has nothing to do with anything. Barely anyone out there overclocks their processor. People on hardware enthusiast forums are such a small minority that your statement seems like you almost had to be joking. And most dells don't allow you to OC them, nor do HPs or any number of other manufacturers. Some high end ones do of course, but they are often insanely expensive (read: workstation priced) and targeted at gamers and not the average user. The Dell Precisions do not allow you to as far as I know.
And most users aren't going to notice the difference between a 2.8ghz iMac and a 3ghz mid-tower that they wouldn't know nor care if they could OC. The average user will, however, notice that the screen on the iMac looks great to them and will also notice that there is a distinct lack of cables behind their desk which will make them all kinds of happy. I'm no fan of the iMac for myself as I will always need more power (if my office had given me the go ahead on the 8 core you can bet i'd be using it) than the iMac can provide.
But its nice to have such power and no matter how I look at it, more power=better!
The processors Apple is using in the Mac Pro are the most expensive Xeon processors on the market.
It's hard to really build a PC getting the equivalent processor and getting it all cheaper. Most of the "high-end" gaming systems are using the Q6xxx or Q9xxx series of processors, which are blazing fast, but not workstation processors. You can build a system with one of those for under $2k, but if you want a true 8-core socket 771 machine it's going to cost you. Very expensive.
It's hard to really build a PC getting the equivalent processor and getting it all cheaper. Most of the "high-end" gaming systems are using the Q6xxx or Q9xxx series of processors, which are blazing fast, but not workstation processors. You can build a system with one of those for under $2k, but if you want a true 8-core socket 771 machine it's going to cost you. Very expensive.
I hate this about forums, it drives me insane. What people need to start to understand is, it doesn't matter what you need, it's about what you want. If all I do is check my e-mails once a day, i should still be able to go on a forum and ask advice about a Mac Pro. If people have the money and the yearning to buy a high-end product, that is their decision.
I don't think its the form factor on it own that puts people off the iMac. My opinion is that a lot of people are pushed into buying the Mac Pro for its *comparatively reasonable* upgrade-ability.
The fact of the matter is, OP is right, you cannot build a like-for-like PC for the same price. And its stupid to even try and differ with that, at this point in time. Your getting this machine built for you, your getting a guaranteed build from Apple, your getting it delivered to your door. There's a lot more than just components you get when ordering from Apple.
If you don't want a performance machine, or don't have the money, then you get a mac mini, macbook, or iMac. Which are still good machines, and will last you a long time. If you are a performance user, then maybe you need to think about saving the money because there is no super cheap solution, the Mac Pro is a good investment, especially against a PC.
tl;dr
Good thread.
Phil Schiller talked about this over a year ago. PCs spec-for-spec are more expensive than Apple. And when he said "PC" he meant Dell.
Everyone thinks Apple are so expensive. You think, wow, $3000 dollars for a Mac Pro?! I can buy a Dell tower for like $500 bucks! Yeh, but you get what you pay for. Look at the features of the Mac Pro. It's top of the line. Dell doesn't advertise their top of the line, because it's a BTO. They only advertise their cheap, entry level $500 PCs. So they give the illusion that they are waaay cheaper. But the PCs are stripped down. Way down.
Same with their laptops. Sure, you can pick up a Dell laptop for like $600 bucks. And people think Macs are so expensive because the MacBook Pro is $2000+. Again, you get what you pay for. In Apple's case, this is a good thing because you get an amazing feature set, incredible design and build quality (no plastic) and don't forget OS X!!
Apple sells laptops: the MacBook, the Air, and the Pro. They sell desktops: the Mini, the iMac, and the Mac Pro. That's not a lot of computers. As far as I'm concerned, they are all top of the line choices when it comes to bang for your buck. Dell and similar PC manufacturers have dozens upon dozens of lines. And the Dell you buy today is discontinued 3 months down the road. They have entry level, mid-class, and upscale BTO machines. Apple for the most part does not have entry level. They say they do with the MacBook and the Mini, but they are not.
I've looked too. For example, go build a top of the line Dell that matches the specs of the Mac Pro and you'll see that machine is hundreds more. You'll spend hundreds more and not get things like OS X, optical audio, FireWire800, and Blue Tooth. You will however have an inferior operating system and a really ugly case with a gaudy blue LED.
Trust me, the "Apple tax" is a myth.
Everyone thinks Apple are so expensive. You think, wow, $3000 dollars for a Mac Pro?! I can buy a Dell tower for like $500 bucks! Yeh, but you get what you pay for. Look at the features of the Mac Pro. It's top of the line. Dell doesn't advertise their top of the line, because it's a BTO. They only advertise their cheap, entry level $500 PCs. So they give the illusion that they are waaay cheaper. But the PCs are stripped down. Way down.
Same with their laptops. Sure, you can pick up a Dell laptop for like $600 bucks. And people think Macs are so expensive because the MacBook Pro is $2000+. Again, you get what you pay for. In Apple's case, this is a good thing because you get an amazing feature set, incredible design and build quality (no plastic) and don't forget OS X!!
Apple sells laptops: the MacBook, the Air, and the Pro. They sell desktops: the Mini, the iMac, and the Mac Pro. That's not a lot of computers. As far as I'm concerned, they are all top of the line choices when it comes to bang for your buck. Dell and similar PC manufacturers have dozens upon dozens of lines. And the Dell you buy today is discontinued 3 months down the road. They have entry level, mid-class, and upscale BTO machines. Apple for the most part does not have entry level. They say they do with the MacBook and the Mini, but they are not.
I've looked too. For example, go build a top of the line Dell that matches the specs of the Mac Pro and you'll see that machine is hundreds more. You'll spend hundreds more and not get things like OS X, optical audio, FireWire800, and Blue Tooth. You will however have an inferior operating system and a really ugly case with a gaudy blue LED.
Trust me, the "Apple tax" is a myth.
I didn't even think people argued about the cost of Mac Pros..? Fact is whilst people argue about niché this and that, that's exactly what the Mac Pro is, a specialist product for a specialist market. The iMac is the thing that sells, it's aimed at the largest market, and they are Mac Taxed through the absolute eyeballs (Could you imagine someone who didn't know any better speccing one up with more ram because they were told its better?!). Hard to accept they saw you coming from a country mile off, isn't it?
You've laid a debate to rest that wasn't awoken in the first place! Do it for the iMac and get back to us about Mac Tax.
You've laid a debate to rest that wasn't awoken in the first place! Do it for the iMac and get back to us about Mac Tax.
I built it already. It's a better specced machine for less. You will have the choice of adding the vast majority of soundcards on the market. Firewire 800 interface is $40. Bluetooth and N can be specified.
What you definitely won't get on the Pro, in addition to what I mentioned in my previous post, is support worth a damn.
How hard is it to get into people's heads that you're making a compromise purely for the eye candy?
I had to chime in my thoughts on this subject too. Really, as I see it, theres no big debate when it comes to price on the MacPro. When you consider the hardware that is powering this beast of a computer the price isnt so ridiculous, in fact its on par, and sometimes cheaper, then what is out there in the pc market. Ive been pricing systems for a few weeks now and have put a lot of thought into this very subject. And really, what advantages and disadvantages would a MacPro have over a custom built computer? Ive dreamed of having a MacPro for years, but actually now that I have the money to slap down on a system Ive found myself doubting the MacPro. Lets look at all the facts shall we? Most of these do apply to me and may not apply to you, so keep that in mind. Also, dont be a hater. I love Mac! I just dropped 2.8k for a 17inch MBP and I enjoy every moment of its macyness. Im just giving my perspective on the situation as I see it, and my needs and desires of a computer dont necessarily correlate with your needs and desires in a computer. Also, remember one important thing here, not everyone can run Mac OSX exclusively, or wants to.
I work in the video game industry and we run a number of game engines that will only work on mac. On top of that, I use 3d Studio Max almost exclusively when it comes to creating content for video games. There is Maya, and Cinema4d, and whatever else, but most of the industry (in my expierence!) uses 3d Studio Max, besides that it is my preferred 3d program. When Im in OSX I use programs like Aperture and Firefox, sometimes Photoshop. Im looking at the Mac Pro for its hardware and not necessarily its software. I can run these programs on my MBP without problems; they do little to actually push the processing performance of the MBP anyway. I also do sound recording and editing on the MBP. The MBP works great for this since I can take it with me to record in the field.
The MacPro works fine for that situation since I can run windows on it. It does bring up a concern though. Macs are known for having problems with 3dsmaxs license system. I encountered this problem on my MBP and I dont use 3dsmax on it because of that. That actually is a big concern and serious problem. I could install just windows on the MacPro and that would cure that problem, but it defeats one of the advantages the Mac Pro has, which is being able to run OSX.
One of the other problems I have is that in my work I deal with a lot of cutting edge technologies, its the way the industry is. The MacPro has some raw power to it, but it fails in other areas, notable when it comes to graphics. Sure, the Mac Pro has a 8800GT. But you have to take into consideration that the 8800gt that they provide isnt the highest end 8800 available and I also have concern over if Apple or any other company will provide new graphics cards as new technologies come out. In my humble opinion, Ive never felt that Apple was good in this regard. They dont provide wussy video cards with their systems, but they dont always provide the cutting edge technology either when it comes to graphics and that is exactly what I need. You can make the argument that I should jump up to a higher end video card, like the Quadro, but you have to remember something here. I work in the video game industry. It has to be able to perform well in a game engine; I need to be able to see all the special effects and fancy lighting so I know its set up right, so I know Ive set it up right. Theres a number of times too that Ill be working in a level that hasnt been optimized for speed, and I need that raw power to be able to push through it so I can do my job without having to wait 3 seconds for a frame to render when Im playing through a level. Its not always real-time though, when building highpoly models so we can bake normal maps, it isnt so uncommon to reach 300,000 polygons, or even go as high as a couple of million. The source textures we work with arent anything to laugh at either. Ive worked with textures at 2048x2048 with hundreds of layers. Thats a lot of data to push around. You might have 4 separate 2048 maps, diffuse, specular, specular power, and normal map. When youre previewing these maps in real time in a view port it can be a strain on resources as it shuffles all those pixels around. The view ports in 3d studio max arent that highly optimized either, so theres a certain amount of overhead that isnt there in the game engine, and certainly isnt there once everything has been optimized. Ideally youd want to preview this stuff in the game engine, but that isnt always the case.
The MacPro provides some good processing power and its one of the main reasons I looked into the MacPro. At that price point its hard to beat and Id love to have 8 cores working on my side. I know itd help me get through some task easier and faster. Processing power is only one part of that equation though.
This is a constantly evolving industry too. What is hot this month may be old news 6 months from now. With PC hardware theres a lot of options for me to upgrade my computer, to improve its performance, to allow me to take part in current trends. I dont always get that with a Mac, even the highend MacPro. Its a highly tuned workstation, but its upgrade path isnt as rosy and open as your typical PC. Worse yet, I feel and worry that Ill be at the mercy of what trends apple decides it wants to take part in. The proprietary nature of apple makes this worse. What happens if I need to swap out the PSU for a new one? If I have a PC Im confident that Id be able to go down to my local computer shop and pick one up, easy as cake! Installing it is no problem either. If I had a mac pro, I am not so sure. I suppose I could go to my local mac shop, but are they going to be able to give me one? And if so, how much is that even going to cost? What if I needed to swap in some new hardware and it pushes up the psu requirements past the 1000watt mark? I suppose thats not such a big problem since there isnt a whole lot I can actually cram into the MacPro case, but this is something Ive thought about for the pc because I actually have the option to expand it even further, to expand it in the realm of maybe needing more power then that.
The case is a cosmetic thing, but really its something we all put a lot of thought into and the case sometimes seems just as important as the cpu or graphics card. I dont think its fair to say all PC cases are ugly. The style of a case is a purely personal thing. Remember that, thats an important point here that I think people overlook. The style of a case comes down to personal preference!! Just because you like it doesnt mean everyone else does, and just because you think a case may be ugly, that doesnt mean everyone else does. That being said, I love, and I mean LOVE the design of Apple products. I think they bring a certain amount of design to this market that other manufactures completely overlook. But that is not to say all PC cases are ugly, Ive come across some very attractive cases and have found some cases I really liked. Take this into consideration though. With a PC case it may last me a couple of builds. Theres standards in place so all motherboards work with all cases, well nearly anyway. My point is that I have a few cases that I really like and Im able to use them and keep using them even as the hardware inside those cases change. There are some nicely designed and engineered cases out there, some that are up on par with Apples designs. The MacPro case on the other hand is a proprietary design. If I get a new motherboard two years from now Im not going to be able to pop it into the MacPro case, at least not without some substantial modifications.
Id like to make a comment here real quick on the design of the Macbook Pro. It is by far, in my opinion, one of the best designed laptops. Its a sleek design that doesnt feel cluttered or overly complicated. This is something I think about each time I look at PC laptops. I especially like that they dont try sticking a card reader or something in there. It has the basics of what it needs and doesnt try to over complicate the design by including stuff it doesnt. My father has a gateway laptop with a 5in1 card reader built in that I find rather ugly. Further more the card reader doesnt support the kind of memory card he has for his camera!
Theres a lot of discussion that goes on about if apple computers are worth their price tag, about which system is better, which operating system is better. There are comparisons to pc hardware and benchmark comparisons and all kinds of other comparisons. Ive seen full on arguments that I wondered if theyd break out into fist fights, and over what? Mac users are always so quick to point out the flaws in Windows and the pc industry in general. Likewise, pc users are always so quick to point out the flaws in Apple and OSX. You have to realize though that there is no one size fits all and we all have our own preferences to what we want and need out of a computer. Before you go off pointing out the flaws in the other platform, to put it one way, you should take the plank out of your own eye before you try and take the splinter out of mine. I dont think either platform is superior to the other; they both have their strength and weaknesses. Apple makes a well designed product and a very good operating system. I own a number of apple products and find them to be priced fairly and function very well. I think they bring a unique design perspective to a rather beige industry. They also fill a number of niches that the pc industry just doesnt cover. I find OSX to be a well designed and thought out operating system. I especially like Leopard. On the flip side, I like WindowsXP. Windows has its problems, but then what piece of software doesnt? Especially when you consider that XP has to play nice with a zillion different hardware configurations. OSX only has to play nice with a hand full of hardware configurations, and thats a lot easier to deal with. It makes me think of video game consoles. I find bugs in console games to be unacceptable to a degree. I feel when youre programming for one piece of hardware its easier to pinpoint bugs and fix them. But when you program a high-end render engine that has to work on any number of different hardware configurations, its very difficult to make it completely rock solid. I think this is a good comparison. Apple has the advantage in this situation because they have control over their hardware and what computers their software goes on. I have to imagine a lot more work went into WindowsXP though to make sure it worked on as many computer as they could get it to. By the way, I think its important to mention; Ive never had a major problem with WindowsXP and I find it to be a stable operating system. It works for me and so does OSX.
I wrote this so you would have an idea about the decision I made. I wrote it in such depth to help understand why I made the decision to not buy a Mac Pro. Most importantly I wrote this because I was hard torn between getting a Mac Pro or a PC and I wanted to show that its not such a black and white issue. Computers are such a personal thing and we all have our own needs when it comes to computing. Ive wanted a highend mac workstation for so long, but when I broke the situation I down I found that in a couple of key areas the MacPro didnt provide what I needed. Because I have made the decision to go with a PC I have lost a couple of key advantages that I would have got with the MacPro. I do have my MacBook Pro though and that allows me to run OSX and all of the mac programs I have. The MacBook Pro is everything I want in a laptop and fits my needs perfectly for a laptop and in some instances it exceeds them.
I work in the video game industry and we run a number of game engines that will only work on mac. On top of that, I use 3d Studio Max almost exclusively when it comes to creating content for video games. There is Maya, and Cinema4d, and whatever else, but most of the industry (in my expierence!) uses 3d Studio Max, besides that it is my preferred 3d program. When Im in OSX I use programs like Aperture and Firefox, sometimes Photoshop. Im looking at the Mac Pro for its hardware and not necessarily its software. I can run these programs on my MBP without problems; they do little to actually push the processing performance of the MBP anyway. I also do sound recording and editing on the MBP. The MBP works great for this since I can take it with me to record in the field.
The MacPro works fine for that situation since I can run windows on it. It does bring up a concern though. Macs are known for having problems with 3dsmaxs license system. I encountered this problem on my MBP and I dont use 3dsmax on it because of that. That actually is a big concern and serious problem. I could install just windows on the MacPro and that would cure that problem, but it defeats one of the advantages the Mac Pro has, which is being able to run OSX.
One of the other problems I have is that in my work I deal with a lot of cutting edge technologies, its the way the industry is. The MacPro has some raw power to it, but it fails in other areas, notable when it comes to graphics. Sure, the Mac Pro has a 8800GT. But you have to take into consideration that the 8800gt that they provide isnt the highest end 8800 available and I also have concern over if Apple or any other company will provide new graphics cards as new technologies come out. In my humble opinion, Ive never felt that Apple was good in this regard. They dont provide wussy video cards with their systems, but they dont always provide the cutting edge technology either when it comes to graphics and that is exactly what I need. You can make the argument that I should jump up to a higher end video card, like the Quadro, but you have to remember something here. I work in the video game industry. It has to be able to perform well in a game engine; I need to be able to see all the special effects and fancy lighting so I know its set up right, so I know Ive set it up right. Theres a number of times too that Ill be working in a level that hasnt been optimized for speed, and I need that raw power to be able to push through it so I can do my job without having to wait 3 seconds for a frame to render when Im playing through a level. Its not always real-time though, when building highpoly models so we can bake normal maps, it isnt so uncommon to reach 300,000 polygons, or even go as high as a couple of million. The source textures we work with arent anything to laugh at either. Ive worked with textures at 2048x2048 with hundreds of layers. Thats a lot of data to push around. You might have 4 separate 2048 maps, diffuse, specular, specular power, and normal map. When youre previewing these maps in real time in a view port it can be a strain on resources as it shuffles all those pixels around. The view ports in 3d studio max arent that highly optimized either, so theres a certain amount of overhead that isnt there in the game engine, and certainly isnt there once everything has been optimized. Ideally youd want to preview this stuff in the game engine, but that isnt always the case.
The MacPro provides some good processing power and its one of the main reasons I looked into the MacPro. At that price point its hard to beat and Id love to have 8 cores working on my side. I know itd help me get through some task easier and faster. Processing power is only one part of that equation though.
This is a constantly evolving industry too. What is hot this month may be old news 6 months from now. With PC hardware theres a lot of options for me to upgrade my computer, to improve its performance, to allow me to take part in current trends. I dont always get that with a Mac, even the highend MacPro. Its a highly tuned workstation, but its upgrade path isnt as rosy and open as your typical PC. Worse yet, I feel and worry that Ill be at the mercy of what trends apple decides it wants to take part in. The proprietary nature of apple makes this worse. What happens if I need to swap out the PSU for a new one? If I have a PC Im confident that Id be able to go down to my local computer shop and pick one up, easy as cake! Installing it is no problem either. If I had a mac pro, I am not so sure. I suppose I could go to my local mac shop, but are they going to be able to give me one? And if so, how much is that even going to cost? What if I needed to swap in some new hardware and it pushes up the psu requirements past the 1000watt mark? I suppose thats not such a big problem since there isnt a whole lot I can actually cram into the MacPro case, but this is something Ive thought about for the pc because I actually have the option to expand it even further, to expand it in the realm of maybe needing more power then that.
The case is a cosmetic thing, but really its something we all put a lot of thought into and the case sometimes seems just as important as the cpu or graphics card. I dont think its fair to say all PC cases are ugly. The style of a case is a purely personal thing. Remember that, thats an important point here that I think people overlook. The style of a case comes down to personal preference!! Just because you like it doesnt mean everyone else does, and just because you think a case may be ugly, that doesnt mean everyone else does. That being said, I love, and I mean LOVE the design of Apple products. I think they bring a certain amount of design to this market that other manufactures completely overlook. But that is not to say all PC cases are ugly, Ive come across some very attractive cases and have found some cases I really liked. Take this into consideration though. With a PC case it may last me a couple of builds. Theres standards in place so all motherboards work with all cases, well nearly anyway. My point is that I have a few cases that I really like and Im able to use them and keep using them even as the hardware inside those cases change. There are some nicely designed and engineered cases out there, some that are up on par with Apples designs. The MacPro case on the other hand is a proprietary design. If I get a new motherboard two years from now Im not going to be able to pop it into the MacPro case, at least not without some substantial modifications.
Id like to make a comment here real quick on the design of the Macbook Pro. It is by far, in my opinion, one of the best designed laptops. Its a sleek design that doesnt feel cluttered or overly complicated. This is something I think about each time I look at PC laptops. I especially like that they dont try sticking a card reader or something in there. It has the basics of what it needs and doesnt try to over complicate the design by including stuff it doesnt. My father has a gateway laptop with a 5in1 card reader built in that I find rather ugly. Further more the card reader doesnt support the kind of memory card he has for his camera!
Theres a lot of discussion that goes on about if apple computers are worth their price tag, about which system is better, which operating system is better. There are comparisons to pc hardware and benchmark comparisons and all kinds of other comparisons. Ive seen full on arguments that I wondered if theyd break out into fist fights, and over what? Mac users are always so quick to point out the flaws in Windows and the pc industry in general. Likewise, pc users are always so quick to point out the flaws in Apple and OSX. You have to realize though that there is no one size fits all and we all have our own preferences to what we want and need out of a computer. Before you go off pointing out the flaws in the other platform, to put it one way, you should take the plank out of your own eye before you try and take the splinter out of mine. I dont think either platform is superior to the other; they both have their strength and weaknesses. Apple makes a well designed product and a very good operating system. I own a number of apple products and find them to be priced fairly and function very well. I think they bring a unique design perspective to a rather beige industry. They also fill a number of niches that the pc industry just doesnt cover. I find OSX to be a well designed and thought out operating system. I especially like Leopard. On the flip side, I like WindowsXP. Windows has its problems, but then what piece of software doesnt? Especially when you consider that XP has to play nice with a zillion different hardware configurations. OSX only has to play nice with a hand full of hardware configurations, and thats a lot easier to deal with. It makes me think of video game consoles. I find bugs in console games to be unacceptable to a degree. I feel when youre programming for one piece of hardware its easier to pinpoint bugs and fix them. But when you program a high-end render engine that has to work on any number of different hardware configurations, its very difficult to make it completely rock solid. I think this is a good comparison. Apple has the advantage in this situation because they have control over their hardware and what computers their software goes on. I have to imagine a lot more work went into WindowsXP though to make sure it worked on as many computer as they could get it to. By the way, I think its important to mention; Ive never had a major problem with WindowsXP and I find it to be a stable operating system. It works for me and so does OSX.
I wrote this so you would have an idea about the decision I made. I wrote it in such depth to help understand why I made the decision to not buy a Mac Pro. Most importantly I wrote this because I was hard torn between getting a Mac Pro or a PC and I wanted to show that its not such a black and white issue. Computers are such a personal thing and we all have our own needs when it comes to computing. Ive wanted a highend mac workstation for so long, but when I broke the situation I down I found that in a couple of key areas the MacPro didnt provide what I needed. Because I have made the decision to go with a PC I have lost a couple of key advantages that I would have got with the MacPro. I do have my MacBook Pro though and that allows me to run OSX and all of the mac programs I have. The MacBook Pro is everything I want in a laptop and fits my needs perfectly for a laptop and in some instances it exceeds them.
my house mate came and asked me to play fifa on a PS2. i was reading your post and said to him in 10m in will be there. i could not continue reading. This is a lot man.
For $2920 from Newegg.com I priced out the following stuff
Dual 2.33GHZ quad core harpertown xeon processors
Supermicro harpertown board
16GB worth of Kinston FB-DIMM 667
4x 500GB SATA drives
8800GT video
Antec P182 case and a very good 750W PSU
Blueray player/DVD burner
Vista64 business OEM
Sure 2.33Ghz < 3Ghz thats in the Mac Pro, but considering the four drives, 16GB RAM and blueray playback and the 8800GT for under 3K, I think thats just fine. I'm sure a power user will not be hurting due to the lower clock speed
Dual 2.33GHZ quad core harpertown xeon processors
Supermicro harpertown board
16GB worth of Kinston FB-DIMM 667
4x 500GB SATA drives
8800GT video
Antec P182 case and a very good 750W PSU
Blueray player/DVD burner
Vista64 business OEM
Sure 2.33Ghz < 3Ghz thats in the Mac Pro, but considering the four drives, 16GB RAM and blueray playback and the 8800GT for under 3K, I think thats just fine. I'm sure a power user will not be hurting due to the lower clock speed
You make a really good point about the macpro not meeting everyone's needs. I agree with what you say - if the macpro isn't for you, you will know and will understand the choices you need to make. That being said, I'm sure that ALOT of people would love it if apple made some effort to bring their macpro closer to its PC brethren in the respect of upgradability/universal access for graphics cards.
I've known a bit of people that were quick to judge the mac pro too. I've sat and explained the benefits and advantages of it though and have managed to get a couple people to open their eyes. I'm surprised to have been able to sway a few hard core pc fans on the subject. It is a very good and capable system. It does make me smile to know more people are opening up to the possibilities of the mac platform.
The Apple Tax, I like that... Haha. I've never actually heard it put that way, but there is a bit of truth there I think. Even so, the imac systems, they are nice systems. If you're in the market for something like a MacPro then the imac is going to be garbage. Still though, I think the imacs are cool. I really hate having wires everywhere and you've got to admit, they've really tackled that problem. To the defense of the imac, a computer has to function well, but it has to fit into your space too. That is one thing the imac can do well and that you can't always accomplish as elegantly with a home built computer. A skilled computer builder can do wonders here, but for most end users they don't want to deal with the added hassle of putting a system together.
Laying the debate to rest ?
It is interesting, given this thread's title, that it is getting longer and longer!
It is interesting, given this thread's title, that it is getting longer and longer!
You're getting desperate now
Why am I getting desperate, when I have - and am in a position to compare - 2007/8 Pros and Dell Precision 690's / T7400s, not to mention XPS 720H2C's which will blow the doors off the Pro for general entertainment use? (and we won't get into my latest, because the compressor went on it)
It is interesting, given this thread's title, that it is getting longer and longer!
Perhaps it's because the OP didn't have much of a clue.