mac pro vs pc help?

[twoodcc]

here is a video of me editing HD video in iMovie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_SNyPPUQU

please take notice of what i have running. and it's also hosting up about 10 php sites, which not all sites are being accessed.

for those with a 2009 mac pro, especially the 2.26 octo, does iMovie act like that?

oh, and the video should be HD after a little while

 

[twoodcc]

what about a pc from here: http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Intel_Core_i7_Configurator/detail

with a i7-965 extreme 3.2 ghz and 12 GB of ram for under $2100 with a bluray burner?

 

[Dr.Pants]

Alright, first of all, I cannot make sense of iMovie being used with the MacPro. Final Cut Express, I think, is a much better (budget) option. Also, from iMovie experts here, does that program only address a certain amount of RAM? To me it looks like the files are cached on-disk... But maybe if you played that and looked at the activity monitor or some way to show your CPU and RAM usage would really benefit as to what specifically was going on.

 

[twoodcc]

Alright, first of all, I cannot make sense of iMovie being used with the MacPro. Final Cut Express, I think, is a much better (budget) option. Also, from iMovie experts here, does that program only address a certain amount of RAM? To me it looks like the files are cached on-disk... But maybe if you played that and looked at the activity monitor or some way to show your CPU and RAM usage would really benefit as to what specifically was going on.

the video is just a test to show how the system is running. for the video editing that i do, imovie should be fine. but everything is in HD of course.

i still have imovie open now, and am currently using about 5 GB of ram out of my 14 GB. i assume this was the same during that video.

you can see my processor usage in the dock. the video is in HD now on youtube, so you can see it better.

 

[Tesselator]

here is a video of me editing HD video in iMovie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_SNyPPUQU

please take notice of what i have running. and it's also hosting up about 10 php sites, which not all sites are being accessed.

for those with a 2009 mac pro, especially the 2.26 octo, does iMovie act like that?

oh, and the video should be HD after a little while

I edit 720p in iMovie '09 version 8.0.2 (741) on a 1920x1200 screen with as many or more clips than you had loaded and mine just flies. No matter how fast I select or move across the clips it keeps up. My RAID 0 drive set sure rattles and rolls as I do so tho. I never see my 8 x5355 cores hit over 20% for all cores. I occasionally see one core pop up above the others to maybe 35% or 40% though. That fits I guess as yours were at 40% ~ 60% most of the time with 80% peaks. Mostly what's stressed in my system when editing and selecting heavy are the drives.

 

[Dr.Pants]

*facedesk*

Sorry, I was not looking at the dock b/c I'm still not as familiar with OSX as I should be - Still, looking over the video again, have you noticed your CPU usage drops off during the pauses? It could just be me, but it looks like the computer is doing nothing during the long pauses in video. To me that says that your HDDs are the bottleneck...

Anybody else think this is a reasonable assumption?

 

[steveza]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Gates+Foundation+eugenics&btnG=Search

EDIT: I think the Yahoo Answers link is a pretty good summary.
But this is kinda OT beyond the original brief remark so I hope not to expand the discussion in that direction.

Interesting (I think) - I'll read some of it later. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Tesselator]

Anybody else think this is a reasonable assumption?

Yup! I agree too!

I just spent some time testing 1080p and iMovie's "Large" import on both a single 70 MB/s drive and on my 350 MB/s RAID 0 and there's a massive difference!

Large is smooth like soft butter on a summer's day on the RAID and smooth but with a hick-up every once in a while on the single 1TB drive.

1080p is very reasonable on the RAID. It feels a little heavy once in awhile but mostly smooth at reasonable jog and select rates. On the single 1TB drive it's just like his youtube example - almost exactly.

 

[twoodcc]

*facedesk*

Sorry, I was not looking at the dock b/c I'm still not as familiar with OSX as I should be - Still, looking over the video again, have you noticed your CPU usage drops off during the pauses? It could just be me, but it looks like the computer is doing nothing during the long pauses in video. To me that says that your HDDs are the bottleneck...

Anybody else think this is a reasonable assumption?

Yup! I agree too!

I just spent some time testing 1080p and iMovie's "Large" import on both a single 70 MB/s drive and on my 350 MB/s RAID 0 and there's a massive difference!

Large is smooth like soft butter on a summer's day on the RAID and smooth but with a hick-up every once in a while on the single 1TB drive.

1080p is very reasonable on the RAID. It feels a little heavy once in awhile but mostly smooth at reasonable jog and select rates. On the single 1TB drive it's just like his youtube example - almost exactly.

thanks for the replies.

so ya'll think it's my hard drives then?

the video i'm editing in the youtube example is off my 1080P camera.

so, with RAID 0, i double my chances of drive failure, correct?

also, are you using just a software raid?

 

[velocityg4]

what about systems like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229070

with the i7 920? granted, that thing is ugly. but systems similar to that?

edit: or this: http://shop2.frys.com/product/5833593

As far as the Core i7 systems go I would stick with the DIY route. That way you can get a handsome case, choose all the parts, save some money and have a bloatware free Windows install. By carefully choosing the parts you could also make it a sweet hackintosh, just be prepared to spend some time tweaking things to work right.

Since you are editing HD video you may want to consider building an 8core Xeon workstation. Though a mid range Core i7 with a good overclock would be no slouch either.

You could have a case like the Antec P182

There are literally hundreds of cases to choose from. Though if you go with building a server your case choices may be more limited to hold the larger motherboard.

 

[stonyc]

P182 is a great case, have one now housing a dual boot hackintosh setup.

I would look into the new P183 (P182 with upgrades)... has a roomier PSU bay and better front fan placement. In addition, it has improved air flow.

 

[twoodcc]

thanks for the replies. but i'd rather not go the DIY route. especially with spending this kind of money on a system

 

[Dr.Pants]

To the OP, yes, with RAID-0 you double your chances of hard-drive failure; however, four HDDs on a RAID 10 array is a pretty sweet method of backup. Unfortunately, the space is halved, but you avoid some of the pitfalls of RAID 5. From what I've read at least (and I am not saying RAID 5 is bad)

 

[nanofrog]

so ya'll think it's my hard drives then?

YES. HDD's are the biggest bottleneck for most users, not the CPU(s) clock frequency.

so, with RAID 0, i double my chances of drive failure, correct?

YES. Take the failure rate of a single drive and mulitply it by the number of drives in the stripe. So the more drives you use, the greater the chance of a failure.

OS X's software RAID capabilities include RAID 10, which would offer you redundancy as well. Just a thought, and may be worth reading up on.

Anything beyond that (5/6/50/60), would require a hardware solution.

As far as the Core i7 systems go I would stick with the DIY route. That way you can get a handsome case, choose all the parts, save some money and have a bloatware free Windows install. By carefully choosing the parts you could also make it a sweet hackintosh, just be prepared to spend some time tweaking things to work right.

It might be an option for some, but isn't attractive to everyone.

That said, my current system is DIY. I do like the ability to spec out specific hardware, and the "junk free" OS installation is a nice bonus.

 

[davewolfs]

Here goes:

ASUS P6T6 Workstation Revolution
Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.8Ghz
12GB Corsair DDR3 @ 1600Mhz
2xWestern Digital 1.5TB Green running in Raid 1 Mirror
1xIntel X-25M as OS + Program Drive
2xWD640GB Blue as Raid 0
EVGA NVidia Nforce GTX 275
Antec Signature 850 PSU (Could probably go less, but I got a great deal on this open box)
Antec P182 Case
Prolimatech Meganehalem Cooler
Scythe S-Flex Silent Fans
Windows 7

Everything works perfectly except for sleep, seems that some of the X58 boards have issues with sleep and overclocking but apparently it can be resolved through a bios update or by reducing your clock speed.

 

[nanofrog]

Here goes:

ASUS P6T6 Workstation Revolution
Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.8Ghz
12GB Corsair DDR3 @ 1600Mhz
2xWestern Digital 1.5TB Green running in Raid 1 Mirror
1xIntel X-25M as OS + Program Drive
2xWD640GB Blue as Raid 0
EVGA NVidia Nforce GTX 275
Antec Signature 850 PSU (Could probably go less, but I got a great deal on this open box)
Antec P182 Case
Prolimatech Meganehalem Cooler
Scythe S-Flex Silent Fans
Windows 7

Everything works perfectly except for sleep, seems that some of the X58 boards have issues with sleep and overclocking but apparently it can be resolved through a bios update.

I have the same board, but no problems with sleep with the latest firmware. Works quite well, and OC capability improved with the this firmware revision as well. The increase in the multiplier for the 920/940 helped.

OC did take some effort, but I used different memory (ECC), as I plan to replace the 920 with a W3570 if I ever manage to locate one.

A new BIOS is due out soon. 0508 IIRC.

 

[Gonk42]

OC did take some effort, but I used different memory (ECC), as I plan to replace the 920 with a W3570 if I ever manage to locate one.

I've been costing up various DIY builds. At scan they
only have the 5520 in stock (i.e. none of the 3500 series at all
and no other 5500s) and only one dual processor board. They
haven't even listed the W3570 (or any of the 3500s) yet.
I guess Dell/Apple/HP etc have grabbed all the first batches of chips.
No one else in the UK seems to have any stock either.

 

[twoodcc]

Here goes:

ASUS P6T6 Workstation Revolution
Intel Core i7 920 @ 3.8Ghz
12GB Corsair DDR3 @ 1600Mhz
2xWestern Digital 1.5TB Green running in Raid 1 Mirror
1xIntel X-25M as OS + Program Drive
2xWD640GB Blue as Raid 0
EVGA NVidia Nforce GTX 275
Antec Signature 850 PSU (Could probably go less, but I got a great deal on this open box)
Antec P182 Case
Prolimatech Meganehalem Cooler
Scythe S-Flex Silent Fans
Windows 7

Everything works perfectly except for sleep, seems that some of the X58 boards have issues with sleep and overclocking but apparently it can be resolved through a bios update or by reducing your clock speed.

thanks for posting. can you post any benchmarks at all?

I've been costing up various DIY builds. At scan they
only have the 5520 in stock (i.e. none of the 3500 series at all
and no other 5500s) and only one dual processor board. They
haven't even listed the W3570 (or any of the 3500s) yet.
I guess Dell/Apple/HP etc have grabbed all the first batches of chips.
No one else in the UK seems to have any stock either.

what is the W3570?

 

[nanofrog]

I've been costing up various DIY builds. At scan they
only have the 5520 in stock (i.e. none of the 3500 series at all
and no other 5500s) and only one dual processor board. They
haven't even listed the W3570 (or any of the 3500s) yet.
I guess Dell/Apple/HP etc have grabbed all the first batches of chips.
No one else in the UK seems to have any stock either.

Try directron.com, as they ship to the UK IIRC. I've used them before, and the prices and service are decent.

Here's a list of their current X55xx parts (includes X5570 and E5540). I'd be interested in OC'ing an couple of E5520's, but so far, I've not discovered a board that allows it yet. I've been hoping ASUS would release something, but so far, nothing has surfaced. Going by their recent history, it will be awhile if they do (OC capable DP 5400 series board that competed with the Skulltrail).

 

[davewolfs]

35xx is a XEON Branded i7 Chip, it can use ECC that is about it.

Here are Cinebench scores, no point in posting Geekbench as the results from Windows to OS X are not directly comparable.

CINEBENCH R10
****************************************************

Tester :

Processor : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz
MHz : 3800
Number of CPUs : 8
Operating System : WINDOWS 64 BIT 6.0.6001

Graphics Card : GeForce GTX 275/PCI/SSE2
Resolution : <fill this out>
Color Depth : <fill this out>

****************************************************

Rendering (Single CPU): 5352 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 21949 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 4.02

Shading (OpenGL Standard) : 6800 CB-GFX


****************************************************

 

[davewolfs]

Try directron.com, as they ship to the UK IIRC. I've used them before, and the prices and service are decent.

Here's a list of their current X55xx parts (includes X5570 and E5540). I'd be interested in OC'ing an couple of E5520's, but so far, I've not discovered a board that allows it yet. I've been hoping ASUS would release something, but so far, nothing has surfaced. Going by their recent history, it will be awhile if they do (OC capable DP 5400 series board that competed with the Skulltrail).

They have a number of boards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...200302 50001315 1071346469&name=Dual LGA 1366

But none are of the enthusiast type.

 

[nanofrog]

thanks for posting. can you post any benchmarks at all?

I'll see what I can post later tonight.

ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution
Core i7 920, OC'd to 4.11GHz
6GB OCZ Platinum DDR3 @ 1600MHz (it didn't do as well with Crucial UDIMM ECC, due to slower CAS=7, so it's stored for later)
ATI HD Radeon 4870 1GB
300GB Velociraptor (boot)
8*WD 320GB RE3 RAID 5 (ARC-1231ML)
Lian Li PC-V2010 Full Tower (Silver)
2x Lian Li EX-H34 Hot Swap bays
Corsair HX1000W PSU
Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 cooler
Noctua NF-P12 fans (4)
Yate Loon 140mm (2)
Vista 64 Ultimate
Linux

what is the W3570?

Basically, the i7-965 with ECC.

 

[nanofrog]

They have a number of boards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...200302 50001315 1071346469&name=Dual LGA 1366

But none are of the enthusiast type.

I know, I check board manufacturer's sites often, and newegg's boards last night.
Ugh... When I think about the money I've spent at newegg....

ASUS has recently come up with this, though it's only an SP board. It might be interesting for those into CUDA.

 

[Consultant]

thanks for the reply.

so you do think the current octo 2.26 would be a huge upgrade?

yes, i am currently working on getting a true backup plan together. i currently have 1 TB drive, 2 x 500 GB drives, and 1 x 750 GB drive. i do have several externals, but since i moved recently, i have not managed to get them out yet.

The 2009 Mac Pro has much more power than a 3 year old Mac Pro.

so, with RAID 0, i double my chances of drive failure, correct?

Yes, but you can do multi drive Raid 5 to reduce that chance. However you need to buy drives of different batch so they won't fail around the same time.

 

[Gonk42]

Try directron.com, as they ship to the UK IIRC. I've used them before, and the prices and service are decent.

Here's a list of their current X55xx parts (includes X5570 and E5540). I'd be interested in OC'ing an couple of E5520's, but so far, I've not discovered a board that allows it yet. I've been hoping ASUS would release something, but so far, nothing has surfaced. Going by their recent history, it will be awhile if they do (OC capable DP 5400 series board that competed with the Skulltrail).

Thanks for the info. I see that scan have just got the 5580 in stock (I guess they giving it priority given the recent review in Custom PC) and also one of the Supermicro boards is now in stock though as it is a server rather than workstation board it is not much good.