An 8 core would be better (in general). But what are you doing exactly?
I ask, as I'm trying to understand your usage/loading. Are all VM's going to be operational and loaded simultaneously? (I'm assuming they will).
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mac pro vs pc help?
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I ask, as I'm trying to understand your usage/loading. Are all VM's going to be operational and loaded simultaneously? (I'm assuming they will).
the main thing the VMs would be for would be for testing. so nothing super important on them or anything. but i'd also like to learn more about them and how to use them efficiently
but the pc is faster and cheaper?
linux and windows - probably ubuntu and vista. and maybe other linux distros. and if i can, leopard as well.
well, how many would depend on my system. running 1 right now on my current mac pro is about all i can do. i mean, i can run more, maybe 1 or 2 more, but then i can't even use the host system at all.
so basically, right now, i'm not using any VMs, though i have in the past. if i got a new mac pro, i would be using more.
how do you think the i7 would do with VMs?
Dr.Pants
macrumors 65816
I would think fewer cores would mean less headroom for VMs. If what you are testing needs a large overhead, the MacPro would be better. If not, the cheaper i7 would work.
BUT
I remember you saying that the MySQL data is priceless. If it is that important, then keep your old MacPro when you upgrade to whatever you upgrade to. Sure, it is more costly, but backing up the data to the old machine (in addition to updating the old machine as well) should make you sleep better at night know that if your system decides to die, you can just pop in the old system while you get your up-to-date system replaced or fixed.
BUT
I remember you saying that the MySQL data is priceless. If it is that important, then keep your old MacPro when you upgrade to whatever you upgrade to. Sure, it is more costly, but backing up the data to the old machine (in addition to updating the old machine as well) should make you sleep better at night know that if your system decides to die, you can just pop in the old system while you get your up-to-date system replaced or fixed.
It should be able to handle what you're wanting to do, with modest resources. If you need higher allocations per VM, I'd think a DP system would be in order though. 😉
Quantity and resources info is why I was hesitant. 😉 😛
you are correct. if i do get a new mac pro, i would keep the old one as a backup, for the exact reason you just said.
but the question right now is, pc or mac pro? i can run my server on the pc, just not leopard or snow leopard server. which i would like to get experience with, but i can run those on any of my other macs and my current mac pro
so which do you recommend? i'd be saving about 30% if i get a pc, compared to the 2.26 octo mac pro
What kind of resources do you need for each VM (allocation)?
For OS + 2VM's (1 core each), you'd be fine with the i7. I 'm still not quite certain of you're needs, and don't want to steer you down the wrong path.
honestly i'm not quite sure. since i'm not really using VMs at the moment all that much. but if i had another system, i would be using them more.
i'm sure vista/xp/win 7 would need more resources than linux.
also, with either the i7 or the mac pro, i'd get 12 GB of RAM for the machine
Hmm... Seems like you've still got some thinking to do... 🙂 Decisions, decisions..//Grrr 😀 😛
Can you start with the number of VM's you'd like to run, and work backwards for needed resources?
If you don't know what you need then chances are you'd be fine with a Quad PC or Quad Mac. I really don't think you need an Octo for the type of stuff you do.
Decide what you want, for me the decision was easy. All the software that I would have run on a Mac is available on PC. Also, I run software that is PC only. Finally, I wanted to get the most for my $$$ and building a custom rig was not an issue so in the end I went PC, but that is not necessarily the right route for everybody.
If you want something no hassle, arrives in a box, plug it in and it just works, you really can't go wrong with a Mac.
Decide what you want, for me the decision was easy. All the software that I would have run on a Mac is available on PC. Also, I run software that is PC only. Finally, I wanted to get the most for my $$$ and building a custom rig was not an issue so in the end I went PC, but that is not necessarily the right route for everybody.
If you want something no hassle, arrives in a box, plug it in and it just works, you really can't go wrong with a Mac.
Tesselator
macrumors 601
Now you've lost me. There's a common server type that exists only on PC? Wait, I can answer that... Nope! 😀
Hmm... Sounds really familiar... 😉 😀 Oh. Wait, I'm typing on it. 😛
Twisting words again? 😱 How dare you try to have fun! 😀 😛
Oh, the joys of mulitple OS systems. 🙂
Tesselator
macrumors 601
Funny!
I find it funny you guys should be talking about VM's on a Mac Pro, because thats the exact reason why I am thinking of buying one.
Here is my dilemma though:
I am a Machinima maker, that means I use games to make movies. The only problem is is that I need a program that only exists on windows. This program is called WoWmodelviewer. Its a program that shows models of the game World of Warcraft, which you can pose in a certain animation, record it and then use it in a program called After Effects (atleast thats how I work).
So my question is: Is it possible to run XP\Vista\Windows 7 (whichever achieves the best result) on a Mac Pro, while running this Modelviewer (which shows 3D models) AND while recording the animations I make with these models, all at the same time. This must all be with a decent Frames Per Second.
So after I recorded this footage I would love to be able to edit this inside an Apple enviroment, Not Windows. Thats why I want a Mac Pro ofcourse 😛
But this all depends on the virtual machine and the kind of computer I have, so my question number 2 is:
How can I optimize my virtual machine? What kind of hardware would the virtual machine benefit the most from?
Is it even possible to use a virtual machine for 3D applications?
If this can work, I will buy a Mac Pro quad. If it doenst then im afraid I have to buy a Windows machine what will be decent for video editting, but I would hate that 🙁
Who can help me out? 😛
I find it funny you guys should be talking about VM's on a Mac Pro, because thats the exact reason why I am thinking of buying one.
Here is my dilemma though:
I am a Machinima maker, that means I use games to make movies. The only problem is is that I need a program that only exists on windows. This program is called WoWmodelviewer. Its a program that shows models of the game World of Warcraft, which you can pose in a certain animation, record it and then use it in a program called After Effects (atleast thats how I work).
So my question is: Is it possible to run XP\Vista\Windows 7 (whichever achieves the best result) on a Mac Pro, while running this Modelviewer (which shows 3D models) AND while recording the animations I make with these models, all at the same time. This must all be with a decent Frames Per Second.
So after I recorded this footage I would love to be able to edit this inside an Apple enviroment, Not Windows. Thats why I want a Mac Pro ofcourse 😛
But this all depends on the virtual machine and the kind of computer I have, so my question number 2 is:
How can I optimize my virtual machine? What kind of hardware would the virtual machine benefit the most from?
Is it even possible to use a virtual machine for 3D applications?
If this can work, I will buy a Mac Pro quad. If it doenst then im afraid I have to buy a Windows machine what will be decent for video editting, but I would hate that 🙁
Who can help me out? 😛
LMAO! 😀 Nicely done. 😉I can't help it! I blame it on my dictionary. 🙄
What kind of resources do you need for all of this?
(I'm not really familiar with the software you mention, but for some reason, have the impression it's rather hungry).
The good news is, the Nehalem architecture is geared for VM. 🙂 (VT-D function in the chip, and DDR3).
As for running OS X, you have the option of a hack, but buying a Mac is much easier. 😉 Worst case, do what's needed in Windows, save the data, and reboot into OS X for editing. A PITA as far as convenience, but it would work. And as it's from a vendor, the system does carry a warranty. 😀
Any additional information you can offer would help immensely, and hopefully, get you the right information. 🙂
yes, decisions....decisions
well, i'd like to run 2-3 VMs. and they wouldn't be doing anything crazy. mainly running scripts and just web browsing (though, if i run scripts that use the web browser, this can be taxing)
4 VMs would probably be the most. no more than that i think
Dr.Pants
macrumors 65816
Well, here's a little budgeting for you - Do you own another computer that you play WoW on? If so, if it has a spare DVI-out, you can just buy a Blackmagic Intensity card and an HDMI-DVI adapter - then record live to a speedy RAID array. If it does not have that, and instead uses a VGA port, there are such things as VGA-component adapters, I think the blackmagic intensity pro has a breakout cable with component on it. Buy two HDDs, run them in software RAID-0, and back up to a larger, slower drive on a quad 2.66; you should be able to do that with little to no problem, and it would probably be easier with two machines (one being the "broadcast" machine and the Mac being the recorder/editor) then having an all-in-one solution, and it would probably save a ton of money on cores that may not be needed. The only downside is that I think the Intensity only records in a 16:9 ratio... that may cause some headaches if your computer monitor is not 16:9 or does not support 1:1 pixel mapping. I'm into machinima... Not WoW Machinima, but that's how I would work with the program
😀 Nice to see a fellow machinimator on here.
Hmm...
I haven't tried up to four. I've only tried 2, as I may be allocating more resources than is actually necessary. So I'm impatient. 😉 😛
What kind of resources do you want for each VM?
(I wouldn't think scripting would need that much, but I don't play with it as often as I'd like). Too little time, too many interests... 😀
i'm not quite sure. i'm trying windows 7 in virtualbox right now, and it's kinda slow. i gave it 1200 MB of ram, like 70 vram, and it didn't ask for how many cores.
but this is just a test.
Tesselator
macrumors 601
Define decent!
Frame Size:
FPS:
But yes, I do this sometimes. Not Machinima but I'll screen record video (using OS X) of 3D applications running on Vista VM. I'm not using the fastest tool available for this. I'm using an app called Snapz Pro X ( http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/snapzprox/ ) for video and one called Layers for stills ( http://the.layersapp.com/about/ ). In Snapz I guess I'm guaranteed to get 640 x 480 @ 30FPS. And I guess I could get 720p at 12 or 15 FPS tho I haven't tried it specifically as a test. I've copied entire DVD movies at 24FPS (~90min.) just to see if it would work. 🙂 It did.
Beats me. Never tried to optimize one. I just install the OS and pick settings I think make sense. I can get used workstation grade (read FAST, capable, and stable) machines from 2 or 3 years ago for $200 so if I want something other than convenience I just go actual machine (AM ?) instead of VM. Sitting just next to my Mac I have nine other very worthy multi proc and/or multi core machines.
Kinda. I use MotionBuilder occasionally. It's not real fun though. I guess Quake III Arena would get about 20 or 30 FPS (I think I'm going to try it and see 🙂). Nowhere near the 300 to 800 FPS I get in Mac native or on one of my AMs. These VMs are suing some kind of virtual layer for the graphics driver and it's like 1/10th to 1/20th the performance. The two I've tried are VMWare's Fusion and Parallels' Desktop. People have routinely told me then Fusion is better/faster but from what what I've seen Parallels is about twice as fast and much more stable. <shrug> I have VMs of Solaris, XP (64 & 32), Vista 64, and a few Linux distributions currently Ubuntu Studio.
I like Mac better than Windoze and for political reasons (Gates Foundation willingly and knowingly euthanizes black Africans and the world's poor!) I try very hard not to pay for or support anything MicroSoft. For Machinima I guess it's all doable on either platform alone and Windoze is probably a more robust and capable environment for it; having a little better drivers and more games natively available. Adding VMs into the mix sounds very problematic to me. I think for the screen recording part of it Cider might be much better. I dunno, I haven't tried a cider game yet - that I know of.
BTW, My machine spec: 2006 MP 1.1 motherboard, Dual 2.66 x5355 xeons (8-cores total), 12GB RAM, 7300 GT NVidia w/256 MB), Software RAID, etc. etc.
.
Windows is still a resource hog. 😀 Running natively and idle, Vista 64 is consuming a little over 2GB of memory. 🙄 So be sure to have enough memory available for VM's. 😉
Still deciding? Btw, the new windows dock is way cooler 😉
yes, still deciding. so you have leopard running inside windows 7? how does it run?
yes i know. right now i have just over 1 GB free of my 14 GB while running the windows 7 VM and not doing much in Leopard, though the webserver is still running of course.