Mac Pro Westmere 2010 dual Hexa CPU upgrade recommendations

Krubbadoo

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 29, 2015
27
4
Hello.
Been searching this for a while.
I am looking to upgrade both 4 core 2.4 CPU's.
I've got chance to locally get a pair of X5670 (2.93 ghz 6 core) at a pretty cheap price with warranty.
On ebay and various other online locations I see 3.33 (x5680) and 3.46 (x5690) 6 core CPU's.

I work both in Cubase and Ableton live with a lot of big VST's and plugins and want to avoid freezing as much as possible.

On 12 core machines is there a significant margin between these 3 processor clock performances in Audio production?

I am also affraid that since Apple did stop offering 12 cores at 3.06 clock will there be chances of overheating at higher clocks?

My last question... Will I see a difference in CPU crackling tolerance at lower latencies between these 3 processors? Thanks a lot.

Martin
 

lowendlinux

macrumors 603
Sep 24, 2014
5,297
6,550
Germany
While I don't do what you do I'd be inclined to stick with the 95W processors (5670/5675) simply based on the fact that I don't want to hear the computer and you're more likely to with the hotter processors. WRT speed I went from 5650's to 5675's and I don't notice a huge improvement in performance in renders but that doesn't really help you with audio stuff.
 

carylee2002

macrumors member
Jul 27, 2008
91
8
Need more info on what your current setup is. Mac Pro 3,1 is very different in using cpu's compared to 4,1's or 5,1's. Also how much ram do you have? Ram upgrade is maybe all you really need
 

flowrider

macrumors 603
Nov 23, 2012
6,255
2,384
On ebay and various other online locations I see 3.33 (x5680) and 3.46 (x5690) 6 core CPU's.

I am also affraid that since Apple did stop offering 12 cores at 3.06 clock will there be chances of overheating at higher clocks?

Martin
From your post I'm assuming you have a 2010 5,1 DP Mac Pro with E5620 CPUs. There are many of us on this forum running 130W CPUs on 4,1 and 5,1 Mac Pros. I have run both W5590 and am now running X5677s. My CPUs run cool and I have no issues. Do a search and you'll get many results of members running high wattage (X5680 and X5690) DPs with no issues.

Lou
 

lewnworxx

macrumors member
Mar 19, 2015
65
4
I've upgraded mine to 5690's with zero issues. Only reason I get fan noise at all is the dual gtx 970's rendering around the clock. When not rendering (say working in logic) the fans don't even come off idle. I would worry about the noise.
 

Krubbadoo

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 29, 2015
27
4
My setup is indeed a dual 2.4 quad core with 24 GB ram. Is there any perceptible performance difference between X5670 (2.93) and X5675 (3.06) ? One of my main concerns is low latency tolerance to pops and clicks.
My audio card is Metric Halo ULN-2
Thanks to all for helping!
 
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h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
14,501
7,031
Hong Kong
My setup is indeed a dual 2.4 quad core with 24 GB ram. Is there any perceptible performance difference between X5670 (2.93) and X5675 (3.06) ? One of my main concerns is low latency tolerance to pops and clicks.
My audio card is Metric Halo ULN-2
Thanks to all for helping!
TBO, any modern CPU should be fast enough for the pops and clicks. However, depends on the actual situation, a SSD may help a lot.
 

nico76

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2009
3
0
Updated my AudioLab's MP 5.1 from X5645 to X5675 and it improves the performance, indeed. My actual configuration is: 2 x X5675 (3.06 GHz), 96 GB ECC RAM, 4x 1TB SSD 850 PRO and AMD R9 280X 3GB. The workflow is really great and enough for the next two years.
 

carylee2002

macrumors member
Jul 27, 2008
91
8
My setup is indeed a dual 2.4 quad core with 24 GB ram. Is there any perceptible performance difference between X5670 (2.93) and X5675 (3.06) ? One of my main concerns is low latency tolerance to pops and clicks.
My audio card is Metric Halo ULN-2
Thanks to all for helping!
If your having pops and clicks issues...it just might be that you need to have your system all working from one common master timecode via BNC (Wordclock) or ADAT that carries common timecode. Not to mention using power conditioners within your electrical chain is a must for clean power as well as having a UPS in the system for protection during power outages.
 

Krubbadoo

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 29, 2015
27
4
Hello. My studio is all clocked with Burl converters. The clock is perfectly stable. Will I be able to put 2 Samsung 850 EVO on a Apricorn Duo-Velo? I'd like to have one for OS and one for my Sample libraries.
 

flowrider

macrumors 603
Nov 23, 2012
6,255
2,384
^^^^Yes. I am running two Apricorn Velocity Duo x2s. One has dual 840 Evos. The other an 840 Pro and an original series 840 SSD. I use the 840 Pro to boot from, but the other three drives are bottle as well. No issues.

Lou
 

Krubbadoo

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 29, 2015
27
4
^^^^Yes. I am running two Apricorn Velocity Duo x2s. One has dual 840 Evos. The other an 840 Pro and an original series 840 SSD. I use the 840 Pro to boot from, but the other three drives are bottle as well. No issues.

Lou

Lou, are you able to run a separate SSD boot drive and samples drive off one Velo Duo? That would be amazing for my setup.
Also you seem pretty knowledgeable, do you think a Dual 5675 would be a big upgrade from my dual 2.40 quad on my 2010 Westmere? Thanks a lot guys for your help.
 

flowrider

macrumors 603
Nov 23, 2012
6,255
2,384
^^^^Yes, all four drives act like discrete single SSDs. As far as dual X5675s go, yes it would be an upgrade and yes you would notice the difference. If it were me, I'd go faster like X5680 or X5690 CPUs. I'm running X5677s (dual 4 core @ 3.46GHz) because for the things I do speed was more important than the number of cores.

Lou
 

nico76

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2009
3
0
Thought about to upgrade to 5690 CPU's, but the 5675 CPU's need 95 W and the 5690 130W per CPU. I am using 3 UAD Octo cards in my Mac Pro, so I was a bit angry damaging the mainboard, that is why I decided to take the 5675 CPU's.
 

DPUser

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2012
935
231
Rancho Bohemia, California
Thought about to upgrade to 5690 CPU's, but the 5675 CPU's need 95 W and the 5690 130W per CPU. I am using 3 UAD Octo cards in my Mac Pro, so I was a bit angry damaging the mainboard, that is why I decided to take the 5675 CPU's.
From a post on Gearslutz;

Actual power draw per card model when running at full DSP load are listed below:

UAD-1: 15 Watts (Mpact 2)
UAD-1e: 9 watts (Mpact 2)
UAD-2 Solo: 5 Watts (3rd generation 21369 SHARC)
UAD-2 Duo: 7 Watts (3rd generation 21369 SHARC)
UAD-2 Quad: 10 Watts (3rd generation 21369 SHARC)
UAD-2 Octo: 8 Watts (latest 4th generation 21469 SHARC - smaller die, more efficient and consume less power)

As you can see, the original UAD-1 consumed nearly twice as much power at full load as a single UAD-2 Octo! In spite of having 2x the processing power of a Quad, the Octo actually consumes 20% less power.
 

juliodm

macrumors newbie
Feb 15, 2016
11
3
New York City
I've upgraded mine to 5690's with zero issues. Only reason I get fan noise at all is the dual gtx 970's rendering around the clock. When not rendering (say working in logic) the fans don't even come off idle. I would worry about the noise.
Hello. I have also just upgraded my 12-core 2.66 ghz to X5690 3.46 ghz 12-core.
I was wondering if you would not mind sharing some of your temps with me.
I was very timid about over tightening my heatsinks so I slowly tightened them over 3 days while I monitored temps and performance. The problem is I never thought to look at my CPU temps before the upgrade, so now I have no idea what 'normal' temps should be. on idle my current temps are:

CPU A Diode: 56c
CPU A Heatsink: 50c
CPU B Diode: 38c
CPU B Heatsink: 44c
Northbridge Chip: 74c
Northbridge Heatsink: 65c

On full load using Geekbench 3 CPU A diode hits 84c which concerns me. Before I tightened the heatsinks to where they are now it was hitting 98c. I know these new chips run hotter and use more electricity but I would think the heatsink fan would notice the heat and kick in sooner or something. Or maybe I need to tighten the heatsinks more. They are currently at the point where I am terrified of tightening any more.
Since this was my first time doing this there is the possibility that I did not apply enough thermal compound.
Im just not sure. Should I be worried about the 84c temps?
 

scott.n

macrumors 6502
Dec 17, 2010
337
78
Hello. I have also just upgraded my 12-core 2.66 ghz to X5690 3.46 ghz 12-core.
I was wondering if you would not mind sharing some of your temps with me.
I was very timid about over tightening my heatsinks so I slowly tightened them over 3 days while I monitored temps and performance. The problem is I never thought to look at my CPU temps before the upgrade, so now I have no idea what 'normal' temps should be. on idle my current temps are:

CPU A Diode: 56c
CPU A Heatsink: 50c
CPU B Diode: 38c
CPU B Heatsink: 44c
Northbridge Chip: 74c
Northbridge Heatsink: 65c

On full load using Geekbench 3 CPU A diode hits 84c which concerns me. Before I tightened the heatsinks to where they are now it was hitting 98c. I know these new chips run hotter and use more electricity but I would think the heatsink fan would notice the heat and kick in sooner or something. Or maybe I need to tighten the heatsinks more. They are currently at the point where I am terrified of tightening any more.
Since this was my first time doing this there is the possibility that I did not apply enough thermal compound.
Im just not sure. Should I be worried about the 84c temps?
Under load, the 84C temp seems reasonable. I wouldn't worry about that. However, the idle temp for CPU A is a little high. I would expect something in the low 40s. CPU B is fine.

Don't over tighten, whatever you do.

I would clean off the thermal paste and reapply for CPU A only.
 

juliodm

macrumors newbie
Feb 15, 2016
11
3
New York City
Under load, the 84C temp seems reasonable. I wouldn't worry about that. However, the idle temp for CPU A is a little high. I would expect something in the low 40s. CPU B is fine.

Don't over tighten, whatever you do.

I would clean off the thermal paste and reapply for CPU A only.

Thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly.
I was afraid of that to be honest. I will try your suggestion and redo the thermal paste.
Thanks again.
 

MacUser2525

macrumors 68020
Mar 17, 2007
2,044
327
Canada
I know these new chips run hotter and use more electricity but I would think the heatsink fan would notice the heat and kick in sooner or something. Or maybe I need to tighten the heatsinks more. They are currently at the point where I am terrified of tightening any more.
Since this was my first time doing this there is the possibility that I did not apply enough thermal compound.
Im just not sure. Should I be worried about the 84c temps?
That is fine for load temperature now your thinking and Apples are miles apart they go with the run them hot as hell before the fans kick in so it is silent idea. Been that way forever in all their machines you can get a program SMC Fan Control that will allow you to raise the defaults they use. As has been mentioned A looks like it needs new thermal pasting done and unlike a 4,1 dual machine upgrade with normal processors the 5,1 machines are impossible to over tighten the heat sinks. If you look at the way the screws are designed you will see a taper at the top which prevents the screw from going down too far when tightening them so when you put it back together go until it will not go for any more turns on it don't try to force any more at the end and you will have it to where it would be from the factory. Go with a cross over pattern when doing it ie. one screw at bottom tighten for few turns then diagonal up for couple turns continuing on this way don't remember whether A is the 5 screw one but if it is then after doing the four give it couple of turns continue on this way until fully seated for all.
 
Last edited:

scott.n

macrumors 6502
Dec 17, 2010
337
78
That is fine for load temperature now your thinking and Apples are miles apart they go with the run them hot as hell before the fans kick in so it is silent idea. Been that way forever in all their machines you can get a program SMC Fan Control that will allow you to raise the defaults they use. As has been mentioned A looks like it needs new thermal pasting done and unlike a 4,1 dual machine upgrade with normal processors the 5,1 machines are impossible to over tighten the heat sinks. If you look at the way the screws are designed you will see a taper at the top which prevents the screw from going down too far when tightening them so when you put it back together go until it will not go for any more turns on it don't try to force any more at the end and you will have it to where it would be from the factory. Go with a cross over pattern when doing it ie. one screw at bottom tighten for few turns then diagonal up for couple turns continuing on this way don't remember whether A is the 5 screw one but if it is then after doing the four give it couple of turns continue on this way until fully seated for all.
It is not "impossible to over tighten the heat sinks" on the 2010 dp or 2009/2010 single processor models. You can't damage the CPU or socket like with some 2009 dp upgrade methods, but you can strip the mounting posts from the processor board by over-tightening.

Don't ask me how I know this. :)

I find that with a T-handled hex wrench it's pretty obvious when the heat sinks are tightened enough.
 

MacUser2525

macrumors 68020
Mar 17, 2007
2,044
327
Canada
It is not "impossible to over tighten the heat sinks" on the 2010 dp or 2009/2010 single processor models. You can't damage the CPU or socket like with some 2009 dp upgrade methods, but you can strip the mounting posts from the processor board by over-tightening.

Don't ask me how I know this. :)

I find that with a T-handled hex wrench it's pretty obvious when the heat sinks are tightened enough.
Well if you go crazy on them then yeah you can get yourself in trouble. So impossible is not exactly it, extremely hard to do with normal force applied would be better way to put it I guess. Even that assumes you have used screw driver before and know how it works... A torx T15 screw driver with 3.5" to 4" or so shaft works fine for the idea too was something like $5 when I did it here couple years ago.
 

Larry-K

macrumors 68000
Jun 28, 2011
1,852
2,316
Hello.
Been searching this for a while.
I am looking to upgrade both 4 core 2.4 CPU's.
I've got chance to locally get a pair of X5670 (2.93 ghz 6 core) at a pretty cheap price with warranty.
On ebay and various other online locations I see 3.33 (x5680) and 3.46 (x5690) 6 core CPU's.

I work both in Cubase and Ableton live with a lot of big VST's and plugins and want to avoid freezing as much as possible.

On 12 core machines is there a significant margin between these 3 processor clock performances in Audio production?

I am also affraid that since Apple did stop offering 12 cores at 3.06 clock will there be chances of overheating at higher clocks?

My last question... Will I see a difference in CPU crackling tolerance at lower latencies between these 3 processors? Thanks a lot.

Martin
I went with 5690s, very happy with them, but I don't do audio.
[doublepost=1455567234][/doublepost]
It is not "impossible to over tighten the heat sinks" on the 2010 dp or 2009/2010 single processor models. You can't damage the CPU or socket like with some 2009 dp upgrade methods, but you can strip the mounting posts from the processor board by over-tightening.

Don't ask me how I know this. :)

I find that with a T-handled hex wrench it's pretty obvious when the heat sinks are tightened enough.
I agree, no problem on the 5,1.
 

juliodm

macrumors newbie
Feb 15, 2016
11
3
New York City
That is fine for load temperature now your thinking and Apples are miles apart they go with the run them hot as hell before the fans kick in so it is silent idea. Been that way forever in all their machines you can get a program SMC Fan Control that will allow you to raise the defaults they use. As has been mentioned A looks like it needs new thermal pasting done and unlike a 4,1 dual machine upgrade with normal processors the 5,1 machines are impossible to over tighten the heat sinks. If you look at the way the screws are designed you will see a taper at the top which prevents the screw from going down too far when tightening them so when you put it back together go until it will not go for any more turns on it don't try to force any more at the end and you will have it to where it would be from the factory. Go with a cross over pattern when doing it ie. one screw at bottom tighten for few turns then diagonal up for couple turns continuing on this way don't remember whether A is the 5 screw one but if it is then after doing the four give it couple of turns continue on this way until fully seated for all.

Wow! Great to know. THanks so much for the info. I really appreciate it. I was going to do it today, but I got sidetracked all darn day. It's going to have to wait till tomorrow. Thanks again guys.
 

juliodm

macrumors newbie
Feb 15, 2016
11
3
New York City
So I took off CPU A Heatsink and cleaned it. And then I saw a a hole in the copper of heatsink A. I then remembered that I had seen that when I did the upgrade. The hole had no thermal compound in it. Basically it was a bubble of air on the CPU. So I cleaned everything extra extra extra carefully and thoroughly. Then instead of the pea shaped/sized drop I did the first time I put a line of thermal compound on the cpu. Carefully placed the heatsink back on the cpu. Screwed the hex screws in and took my time and you guys were right, they do just stop at one point. I did the cross pattern for one full turn on every screw. The idle temperature of CPU A is now 45-46deg. And Full load on 64bit Geekbench hit 81 deg. I was hoping to keep it below 78.5 deg as per Intel's specs on these X5690 chips. Im not really sure what else I can do at this point to lower the temps.

Ive read some people talking about "lapping" the heatsink.
I assume that means polish to some degree. But I dont have any tools that can do that.
Plus the hole is a pretty serious hole. It's like a gouge. About 1mm deep and 1mm in circumference. And the internal color of it is not copper. It's like copper is only a surface treatment on the heatsink. Like a coat of copper.

What are your thoughts?
And thank you guys again for the info and the support.
 

MacUser2525

macrumors 68020
Mar 17, 2007
2,044
327
Canada
Lots of heat sinks are like that just copper on the surface for the better heat transfer to the underlying real heat sink metal. The gouge is not the best idea to have but your temperatures are reasonable. The intel specification would be one the tjmax things whatever it is called I would think, the point where they throttle is 100C I believe so you have plenty of headroom left. Lapping is just that polishing the cpu and heat sink until the have mirror like finish on them for better contact between them not recommended unless you know what you are doing/want to risk frying cpu you can't really hurt the heat sink unless you fill it full of gouges.
 
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