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I think they wanted the macbook air so they went to it first,heres the key they didn't want the vista laptop.

Actually, the reason why the MBA was targeted by the successful hacker is twofold:

  1. He already discovered a vulnerability in Safari for the iPhone last year so was pretty confident that a similar flaw could be found in the OS X version.
  2. He's a Mac user and confesses to not being familiar with other platforms as much.

It may be that he wasn't interested in a Vista laptop but more importantly he wasn't familiar with it so why waste time learning when you can go straight for the (apparently) easy money?
 
They're a prime sponsor along with about four other companies. Of course, that's totally irrelevant because MS sponsor a lot of events like this as it helps their team find vulnerabilities in their applications so they view it as a good thing.

On the other hand, Apple don't sponsor these events at all so you have to ask yourself what's better - sponsoring events that allow you to identify weaknesses so you can repair them and give increased security to your userbase or not bothering to look after their interests?

People who are claiming MS sponsor these events to discredit Apple are, frankly, silly because MS have been sponsoring similar events for years even when they ended up getting a right kicking out of them.


or maybe.. just maybe they're trying to show that Macs are not that secure after all. stick with vista. ul b okay for atleast one more day.!!
:D
 
According to MacWorld, ONLY the Macs were attacked first. Only after the Mac was exploited did anyone attack the PCs. Apparently, no one wanted the PC or Linux prizes?

Anyway, that fact alone makes the "Mac Hacked First" headline completely phony.

The correct title should be "Hackers Love to Win Macs First over PCs!"

You're not reading it correctly. The mac was hacked first because it was the only OS to fail on the second day. Vista and Ubuntu did not fail on the second day, therefore, they were hacked second/third. Put down the kool aid and pick up a dose of reality and common sense.
 
I have no issue with the actual hack.

What I have an issue with is with the "It only took 2 minutes to hack the Mac therefore Vista and Linux are a lot more secured."

This is completely off the mark, the hacker knew of the webkit issue months ahead of the competition and appear to have taken quite a bit of preparations well before the competition. The 2 minutes is the time it took him to execute the prepared hack.

The hacker for Vista was also ready with the exception that he did not count on SP1 so he had to rework the hack which took longer.

I and my team been at these competitions before and the Linux hackers a lot of times do not take as much time to prepare prior to the competition. This puts them at a very significant disadvantage to the hackers going after the other platforms.

Also this hacker has it in for Apple, this is not the first time he pull a stunt.

This is a worthless comparison, the skill of the hackers varies, the same hack can not be used against the other platforms, and you can walk into the building with the hack ready to go weeks before the competition starts.

Unfortunately most people do not know the difference that makes and simply think that the Macs are just push overs since it only takes two minutes to hack them.
 
I find that really hard to believe. It sounds similar if I said "yeah, I could write a best-selling novel, but I just don't feel like doing it...."

I have to admit, it sounded odd to me too. That's why I wanted to post the link, so you'd know I didn't make it up.

and.. would you care to answer that..!!?

Do I have to?

OK.

95% of the computers in the world run Windows.
There are over 100,000 viruses for Windows, plus untold numbers of spyware.

Mac OS + Linux has 5% of the comps in the world.
There are 0 viruses for Mac OS. I'm not sure about Linux, but I don't remember hearing of any. ( Maybe someone more knowledgeable about Linux can chime in.)

So, where do you think the computer security industry gets most of its revenue from?

There is no evidence to even suggest the contest was rigged, just as there is no denying the Mac got hacked. But it's hard to imagine them achieving a result that was more desirable.
 
Ok. I read most of the first page and most of the posts immediately prior to this one. What I saw first was all the non-Zealots lording it up over the fact that the MBA was hacked first; as though it were the easiest one to hack. Keep in mind that the first person that tried wanted the MBA for himself.

However, in reading the balance of the article itself, I saw where the independent security group that sponsored this contest noted that only 6% of all 113 vulnerabilities found since 2003 (only 113 in 5 years!?) remained unpatched... 6% of 113 is only 6.78 vulnerabilities!

Another commenter acknowledged that Apple's low market share may truly be part of the reason that there is no effective exploit against the Apple in the wild. He had to wonder if the 8% market share was the only reason and found it hard to believe that it was possible. I agree.

It still seems to me that certain analysts go out of their way to try to make Apple look bad. Time and again I have seen reports of a very few new vulnerabilities in the latest tests of the different Windows iterations due to certain vulnerabilities being classified as all part of one vulnerability, yet they do not do the same for Apple vulnerabilities, insisting that each and every one is a separate and unrelated problem!

Ok, I've been an Apple user for almost 30 years. During that time, I have never, ever had my Apple infected by a virus or intentional malware, though I admit that certain badly-crafted flash advertisements have caused my CPU usage to spike on an Intel Core2Duo chip. On the other hand, discounting tracking cookies that most spyware detectors tag on anyway, I have had my Windows boxes become infected by viruses despite active and current AV software installed and my IE browser bar hijacked several times, the worst of which was Xupiter back around '99. You tell me which machine was the more secure over all that time.

I can't explain why Apple is more secure any more than anyone else who isn't part of the industry. All I know is that I have never had a problem with my Apple from any form of intentional malware and that, for me, it is the most secure platform on the market today.

I have to admit, it sounded odd to me too. That's why I wanted to post the link, so you'd know I didn't make it up.



Do I have to?

OK.

95% of the computers in the world run Windows.
There are over 100,000 viruses for Windows, plus untold numbers of spyware.

Mac OS + Linux has 5% of the comps in the world.
There are 0 viruses for Mac OS. I'm not sure about Linux, but I don't remember hearing of any. ( Maybe someone more knowledgeable about Linux can chime in.)

So, where do you think the computer security industry gets most of its revenue from?

There is no evidence to even suggest the contest was rigged, just as there is no denying the Mac got hacked. But it's hard to imagine them achieving a result that was more desirable.

While I won't argue the gist of your statement I do have to offer a minor correction. By several recent studies, Windows now holds less than 89% of the installed base of world computers compared to the 95% back in 2001. This means that between Apple and Linux, they hold more than 11%. Those studies suggest that Linux now holds between 2.5% to 3.0% while Apple holds over 8%. This ratio of Windows to other OSs is dropping at an ever-increasing rate, the largest shift so far appearing between Dec. 06 and Dec. 07. While I don't ever expect perfect unity between the three, I do expect reasonable parity to develop over the next 5 to 10 years.
 
Ok, I've been an Apple user for almost 30 years. During that time, I have never, ever had my Apple infected by a virus or intentional malware,

I have to admit, in 15 years on Windows I never had a virus. Spyware on the other hand.....

My main complaint against Windows was how cumbersome it was to deal with, and how unstable it is in its own right.

though I admit that certain badly-crafted flash advertisements have caused my CPU usage to spike on an Intel Core2Duo chip.

OMG! Have you ever been to Nick.com? ( I have kids ) CPU usage of the web browser on my 2.16 Ghz C2D jumped to 135%!!! Same result for Safari, FF, and Camino.
 
This is completely off the mark, the hacker knew of the webkit issue months ahead of the competition and appear to have taken quite a bit of preparations well before the competition. The 2 minutes is the time it took him to execute the prepared hack.

Correct. It's totally unfair to use the two minute figure. However, what this does show is that a known weakness existed in Safari for weekswhich wasn't detected or patched.

The hacker for Vista was also ready with the exception that he did not count on SP1 so he had to rework the hack which took longer.

Whih illustrates that MS do react quicker to threats and try to close them. Heck, they have to!

Also this hacker has it in for Apple, this is not the first time he pull a stunt.

He's not got it in for Apple, he just exploited an opportunity that was available. According to zdnet, the hacker, Charlie Miller said:

"We could have chosen any of those three but had to make a judgement call on which would be the easiest and decided it would be Leopard," Miller said.

"Every time I look for [a flaw in Leopard] I find one. I can't say the same for Linux or Windows. I found the iPhone bug a year ago and that was a Safari bug as well. I've also found other bugs in QuickTime
."

This is a worthless comparison, the skill of the hackers varies, the same hack can not be used against the other platforms
Not true as the above demonstrates.

and you can walk into the building with the hack ready to go weeks before the competition starts.

As was the case with all the platforms.

Unfortunately most people do not know the difference that makes and simply think that the Macs are just push overs since it only takes two minutes to hack them.

Agree with this, the point remains that this exploit was available for weeks to work on.

While I won't argue the gist of your statement I do have to offer a minor correction. By several recent studies, Windows now holds less than 89% of the installed base of world computers compared to the 95% back in 2001. This means that between Apple and Linux, they hold more than 11%. Those studies suggest that Linux now holds between 2.5% to 3.0% while Apple holds over 8%. This ratio of Windows to other OSs is dropping at an ever-increasing rate, the largest shift so far appearing between Dec. 06 and Dec. 07. While I don't ever expect perfect unity between the three, I do expect reasonable parity to develop over the next 5 to 10 years.

Can you provide the source data for these figures please as they don't tie in with worldwide computer sales for 2007? If it's marketshare.hitlist then you should know that they aren't exactly accurate.
 
OMG! Have you ever been to Nick.com? ( I have kids ) CPU usage of the web browser on my 2.16 Ghz C2D jumped to 135%!!! Same result for Safari, FF, and Camino.

Actually, no. The problem was with a specific advertiser's flash ads on zdnet.com. This ad would peak my core2duo to 100% on BOTH cores. I later discovered that literally no one was immune to this particular ad if they had the Adobe Flash plugin.

Can you provide the source data for these figures please as they don't tie in with worldwide computer sales for 2007? If it's marketshare.hitlist then you should know that they aren't exactly accurate.

There is a difference between Market Share and Installed Base. If you want to look at market share (sales) then the Apple must have a much higher share since they showed 60% sales growth between Feb 07 and Feb 08 while all other manufacturers showed figures in the low single digits to mid-teens. They also showed far more growth in dollars than any of their competitors. While I no longer have the links to these specific articles these reports have only been released in the last three months; they shouldn't be too hard to locate (along with all the flaming that went along with them.) I will tell you that the site you linked was not one of the sources. I believe it was an article on eWeek, but I'm not certain.

By the way, you seem to have conveniently forgotten that the one who hacked Vista had to return home for a prepared file he forgot to include in his tools disk. If he had remembered that file, Vista might have fallen much, much quicker.
 
While I won't argue the gist of your statement I do have to offer a minor correction. By several recent studies, Windows now holds less than 89% of the installed base of world computers compared to the 95% back in 2001. This means that between Apple and Linux, they hold more than 11%. Those studies suggest that Linux now holds between 2.5% to 3.0% while Apple holds over 8%. This ratio of Windows to other OSs is dropping at an ever-increasing rate, the largest shift so far appearing between Dec. 06 and Dec. 07. While I don't ever expect perfect unity between the three, I do expect reasonable parity to develop over the next 5 to 10 years.

Meh, close enough for Government work. :D
 
It's amazing how nutty some can be and what lame excuses they offer in blind defense.

But, the bottom line is:

APPLE GOT HACKED.

APPLE HAS TO IMMEDIATELY ADDRESS THIS.

APPLE HAS TO BETTER FOCUS ON SECURITY IN THE FUTURE.

No "ifs," "ands," or "buts." Does anyone really expect corporations to respond to Apple's iPhone business push, if there is a perception that security is not top priority.

Apple makes great product, with the best design in the industry. But Apple is also incredibly unresponsive to end-user demands, and responds only when pushed hard by either hackers or competitors.

I use Vista for my HTPC (OS X for everything else. OS X is about 2 years behind Windows in HTPC development.)

It's amazing that MS actually places their techs in popular third-party forums, to help end-users, while Apple doesn't even have anyone answering questions on their own forum.
 
you've hit the nail on the head and so have others.....not as computer literate as a lot of you but i won't go higher than 10.4.11 i definitely am not going to get leopard nor ilife 08 or iwork 08 nor this time machine junk....there are a lot who are ready to attack anyone who criticizes Jobs etc but the FACT is a big hustle has been going on and you guys shouldn't have been so quick to buy leopard...i know a lot of you know how to get around and work with this and i wish i was as smart but tiger has never been any problem for me and so many are relating leopard problems, "08" problems, little things like including cords or stuff that now we have to pay for these are all the result of someone who has gotten a fat head and thinks he/they can con more and more...I bought the mac mini when it first came out and it was then that there were small signs that hustling was becoming more evident with the Mac product.....this guy needs to step back and realize that what goes up can also go down and the USA is heading into a depression and all this Mac stuff could go "poof" overnight....i'd make sure my bases are covered before i bought anymore Apple stuff of any kind until i see those at the top getting their act straight....funny thing is supporting cast and third party products are better than top management as far as satisfaction goes such as OWC, local Apple store etc....my two cents...


Ummm... right! I think... What did you say?

Personally I've been using Leopard since it came out and I haven't had a fraction of the problems so many others claim to have had. Then again, I also don't go for adding all the different OS enhancers that come out all the time, no matter what OS you use. There are a lot of new things I like about Leopard and nothing I don't like, though I admit I'm still learning new features within it that I never knew existed.

Nobody is really tanking on this latest depression except the housing industry. Unfortunately, when combined with the sudden leap in fuel costs and incentives to promote bio-fuels, not only is gas more expensive but so is food, with a lot of our former excess stores that were keeping the food prices down now being tapped for conversion to fuel and driving up the cost of grain which is not only used for human food but also as feed for cattle, pigs and chickens which drives up the cost of meat as well.In essence, by the costs in some cases as much as doubling, effective take-home pay is effectively halved. This means that everybody sees a downturn in wholesale and retail sales, not just Apple; who for some strange reason seems to be seeing an upturn in sales rather than down.
 
I have to admit, it sounded odd to me too. That's why I wanted to post the link, so you'd know I didn't make it up.



Do I have to?

OK.

95% of the computers in the world run Windows.
There are over 100,000 viruses for Windows, plus untold numbers of spyware.

Mac OS + Linux has 5% of the comps in the world.
There are 0 viruses for Mac OS. I'm not sure about Linux, but I don't remember hearing of any. ( Maybe someone more knowledgeable about Linux can chime in.)

So, where do you think the computer security industry gets most of its revenue from?

There is no evidence to even suggest the contest was rigged, just as there is no denying the Mac got hacked. But it's hard to imagine them achieving a result that was more desirable.

well.. if everything you did was because of a hint...
 
There is a difference between Market Share and Installed Base. If you want to look at market share (sales) then the Apple must have a much higher share since they showed 60% sales growth between Feb 07 and Feb 08 while all other manufacturers showed figures in the low single digits to mid-teens. They also showed far more growth in dollars than any of their competitors. While I no longer have the links to these specific articles these reports have only been released in the last three months; they shouldn't be too hard to locate (along with all the flaming that went along with them.) I will tell you that the site you linked was not one of the sources. I believe it was an article on eWeek, but I'm not certain.



By the way, you seem to have conveniently forgotten that the one who hacked Vista had to return home for a prepared file he forgot to include in his tools disk. If he had remembered that file, Vista might have fallen much, much quicker.

okay.. i did not know that.
i just thought he was caught off guard cz of sp1
 
I'm going to help fan the flames a minute here ....

Despite me being a big Apple fan, I'm going to come out and say something totally honest that many people may not like/want to hear.

Apple has been making a lot of **** software and **** computers since the day the Macintosh hit the shelves! This is nothing new, and certainly nothing that just came about because of the iPod.

Many of the older releases of MacOS (pre OS X) were quite pathetic! Remember MacOS 8.5 anyone? It was so buggy, they had to rush 8.51 out the door about a month later to fix data corruption and crashing issues.

Remember those Performa systems from around 1996-97? On-board, non-upgradeable video with insufficient video memory to even handle "millions of colors" mode. Yeah, THAT was a real wise decision for a machine catering to graphics and artist types.....

Or look at Apple's first revision of the G4 towers. It lacked an AGP video slot, and lacked an Airport card slot, and had HALF the bus speed of the next revision, the "Sawtooth G4". In fact, that first revision wasn't even manufactured for too long, leading many people to suspect Apple just built it to dump their inventory of left-over parts from G3 blue and white towers. Nice.....

Even OS X took a couple revisions to become anything worth considering as a real usable OS.

The harsh reality is, practically ALL computer manufacturers have been delivering sub-par hardware and buggy software. I just happen to like Apple's products better than the abysmal alternatives. I think everyone, Apple included, needs to do better though.


Well, it's no secret that Mac OS X is the least secure OS on the market today.

Apple has been making **** software and **** computers ever since they decided to put all their focus on the iPod and the impressive iPhone. They have limited resources. Since iPod became huge not ONE SINGLE hardware release did not have at least one recall on one of its part in the following 15 months.

10.5 was a colossal technical failure. Every softwares are buggy. Maybe it's time they separated the 2 businesses and star making really good computers that works for years again.
 
Yes, dear. Whatever you say. :rolleyes:

still a skeptic, eh banger?
okay.. how about the fact that the hackers had no information that vista would come in with SP1?
maybe microsoft banked that it's new SP1 would be able to keep the machine unexploited for maybe a couple of days. but alas!
and the argument about adobe and microsoft being the sponsors and still the hole found in vista was related to flash.. well that's how bad both of the companies actually are.
:rolleyes:
 
APPLE GOT HACKED.

APPLE HAS TO IMMEDIATELY ADDRESS THIS.

APPLE HAS TO BETTER FOCUS ON SECURITY IN THE FUTURE.

They have, the fix is in the latest Webkit build, and once its been tested it'll be in the Safari.

Whih illustrates that MS do react quicker to threats and try to close them. Heck, they have to!

Not really, Microsoft have had a few issues getting SP1 out the door, they've sort of released it but it isn't in Windows update, so its fair enough for them not to expect it ;).

EDIT:

Can you provide the source data for these figures please as they don't tie in with worldwide computer sales for 2007? If it's marketshare.hitlist then you should know that they aren't exactly accurate.

Hitslink think Linux's share is less than 1% and that OS X has a 7% share. So it isn't their data.

Personally I don't think their figures are amazing, and are US centric, but they aren't totally worthless.
 
Why is everyone trying to discredit the results of this test because the mac was hacked first? Im certain that if it were Vista that fell first there would be less debate on the validity of the competition.

The test illustrated a prepared exploit was in development for a while and hadn't been patched and the hacker used it and subsequently won.

He didn't pick the mac because the air was most desirable (such a silly argument) - winning the largest amount of money trumped the lappies

I don't think the results have any overarching meaning with respect to who is most secure

Microsoft sponsors tons of events like this and they usually fair poorly and there is no controversy then

Apple does have pie on its face when they go down first when their commercials tout their impervious OS

I have never had a virus on my windows box or my apple ever. XP and os X have been very reliable and safe for my YMMV
 
Why is everyone trying to discredit the results of this test because the mac was hacked first? Im certain that if it were Vista that fell first there would be less debate on the validity of the competition.

That is probably true :p. However reading up on this from last years conference, specifically:

The flaw for which Dai Zovi wrote an exploit exists solely in Safari, not in other browsers. Indeed, if the machine in the pwn-2-own contest had been running Vista, Macaulay wouldn't have bothered to try a remote IE exploit, he said.

"[IE flaws] are worth way more money—more people use them," he said.

Means I'm not so sure that it really says the Mac is less vulnerable.
 
Boring....

If you run as a non-admin, none of this happens. Reading email or going online with an admin account is the peak of ignorance and a totally invalid test. No one with security experience uses their admin account for daily work. It just doesn't make sense. This applies to OS X, Unix, IBM mainframe, Atari, Wii, X-Box 360, Commodore 64, CP/M, MP/M, DOS and Windows. The main reason people have security problems is because they run around naked on the Internet, trusting anyone. The world is not really that scary, but you should use reasonable precautions. Anyone who says we use OS X because it's secure is totally missing the usability point.
 
There is a difference between Market Share and Installed Base.

I know, but one drives the other.

If you want to look at market share (sales) then the Apple must have a much higher share since they showed 60% sales growth between Feb 07 and Feb 08 while all other manufacturers showed figures in the low single digits to mid-teens.

Not actually true. HP's global sales growth was 30% which doesn't sound as good as Apple's until you realise they shipped 50 million units and Apple shipped about 8 million. Growth needs to be taken in context of sales volumes or it's a meaningless statistic.

They also showed far more growth in dollars than any of their competitors.

Again, not true. I think they showed more revenue per unit but that's not the same thing.

By the way, you seem to have conveniently forgotten that the one who hacked Vista had to return home for a prepared file he forgot to include in his tools disk. If he had remembered that file, Vista might have fallen much, much quicker.

I've not forgotten it since I never actually mentioned it, however unless it took him an entire day to get his disk then it wouldn't have since Vista didn't fall until day three when third party applications were allowed to be exploited.
 
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