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Mac Studio M1 Ultra GPU will be beaten by AMD and Nvidia in just 6-7 months.

TiggrToo said:
So this is Apple’s problem just how again? Why should anyone continue to carry an API that’s not had an update for coming close to 5 years now?
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Backwards compatibility. Seems to be well supported on Linux and ... even Windows. Still.

TiggrToo said:
We’re getting to the crux of the problem here - and it’s not Apple.
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Yes, I want what they don't sell, so I'm not going to buy from them anymore. Easy. I really can't comprehend why you think it's odd -enough to be fixated on the idea for so long- that someone might prefer something other than MacOS on the M1 systems.

Seriously, Apple makes a decision (more than one, actually) that loses me as a customer and it's somehow my fault and I have to adapt to continue giving them money or whatever nonsense you're thinking...

Go play with SQL or whatever you do for a living. I'm done.
 
exoticSpice said:
Apple does not use industry standards and it hurts mac users rhe most.
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jjcs said:
Yet Mac users cheer them on.... I've never understood that.
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The apparent disconnect is the notion that a standard is the best way to do something. Turns out, that's not always the case --- a standard has to balance wide application against efficiency, and sometimes a new approach is worth leaving a standardized way of doing things.
 
exoticSpice said:
ugggg. Support vulkan Apple. Apple GPUs with Vulkan will enable software like Proton to work and the Mac will have a much bigger game library
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@jjcs already informed us that they were not interested in that either. That’s the issue I have with their ‘predicament’. They’re apparently not prepared to do anything except grumble.

I agree that it would be nice if Apple supported Vulkan - I think it would make a huge difference personally. But even if they did then our friend still wouldn’t be happy.
 
Abazigal said:
Remind me again how Apple makes money?
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iPhones mostly, but Apple has long had a some sort of RDF with their products that enabled them to tell customers what they actually wanted, whether or not they did actually need it, and many lapped it up.
 
jjcs said:
Seriously, Apple makes a decision (more than one, actually) that loses me as a customer and it's somehow my fault and I have to adapt to continue giving them money or whatever nonsense you're thinking...
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You’re the only one complaining bitterly about it though…
 
TiggrToo said:
@jjcs already informed us that they were not interested in that either. That’s the issue I have with their ‘predicament’. They’re apparently not prepared to do anything except grumble.

I agree that it would be nice if Apple supported Vulkan - I think it would make a huge difference personally. But even if they did then our friend still wouldn’t be happy.
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I think the problem is bigger than that. IIRC, @leman and others (forgetting who) have detailed some of the major differences in Apple's GPU arch that make Vulkan prohibitively difficult to support. In other words, it's not just a matter of "Apple doesn't want to support Vulkan," but "supporting Vulkan isn't really tenable."
 
jjcs said:
iPhones mostly
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Actually, if you look at their services, it’s not even really much of a hardware stance anymore, as much as it is about tethering the ecosystem of locking the consumer into Apple Pay, Apple TV, Apple Music, etc.

Consumers can dump the iPhone, but it’s not as easy to disassociate services if there’s a widespread connection, especially through the household. It also explains why services has grown exponentially over the last three years for Apple, if you look at their quarterly earning data reports.
 
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januarydrive7 said:
The apparent disconnect is the notion that a standard is the best way to do something. Turns out, that's not always the case --- a standard has to balance wide application against efficiency, and sometimes a new approach is worth leaving a standardized way of doing things.
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Then keep both. That tends to be best for the users, but vendor lock-in isn't (best for the users).
 
exoticSpice said:
ugggg. Support vulkan Apple. Apple GPUs with Vulkan will enable software like Proton to work and the Mac will have a much bigger game library
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Really don’t understand why people think Vulcan is some miracle cure. It really isn’t. It might be worth adopting DirectX if it was possible, but Vulcan gets Apple and it’s users nothing. Proton may be a great hack, but really it only benefits Valve. Already some Linux game devs are nervous. People aren’t using native Linux tech and work is drying up for Linux game devs. Valve is contacting houses and saying to them, “don’t port game X to Linux, we’ll just use proton.“ This is not good news for Linux gamers in the long run.
 
Relentless Power said:
Actually, if you look at their services, it’s not even really much of a hardware stance anymore, as much as it is about tethering the ecosystem of locking the consumer into Apple Pay, Apple TV, Apple Music, etc.

Consumers can dump the iPhone, but it’s not as easy to disassociate services if there’s a widespread connection, especially through the household. It also explains why services has grown exponentially over the last three years for Apple, if you look at their quarterly earning data reports.
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MS did far less to get sued as a "monopoly" by the Feds.
 
januarydrive7 said:
I think the problem is bigger than that. IIRC, @leman and others (forgetting who) have detailed some of the major differences in Apple's GPU arch that make Vulkan prohibitively difficult to support. In other words, it's not just a matter of "Apple doesn't want to support Vulkan," but "supporting Vulkan isn't really tenable."
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Which very much may well be the case - so i’m not going to disagree either.
 
jjcs said:
MS did far less to get sued as a "monopoly" by the Feds.
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They got their fingers rapped for forcing THIRD PARTIES to install MS software at the expense of other software.

And by the time it was all said and done they pretty much got away with a nominal fine that didn’t even cause a scrape on the bottom line.
 
TiggrToo said:
They got their fingers rapped for forcing THIRD PARTIES to install MS software at the expense of other software.

And by the time it was all said and done they pretty much got away with a nominal fine that didn’t even cause a scrape on the bottom line.
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It did cause the DC MS office to change from a sales office to a lobbying outfit.
 
Bodhitree said:
It is hardware they have to implement. Its a new generation of the GPU architecture, including support for hardware ray tracing and faster general graphics hardware.
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Well, that makes me sad it’s not already in hardware, such as the Mac Studio I’m considering finally buying. Sigh.
 
jjcs said:
iPhones mostly, but Apple has long had a some sort of RDF with their products that enabled them to tell customers what they actually wanted, whether or not they did actually need it, and many lapped it up.
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The entire argument can essentially be summed up with one word - trust.

We Apple users buy Apple gear because we trust Apple to make this sort of product design decisions for us, and I think that this is one of the really important aspects of Apple that people really don't understand. That Apple really goes the distance in building trust relationships with their customers.

This doesn't mean that Apple is perfect or beyond reproach. Far from it, but Apple has been very good in the areas that I do care about, while I find I can still tolerate the areas in which they are weak in. Their relatively few competitors are the inverse, and I think you will find that while a lot of Apple users may struggle to articulate this point, it will nevertheless come out along this line if you poke them the right way.

It's the same as how people connect with their babysitter or hairdresser. I don't evaluate them solely on objective metrics. Instead, we connect based on how well we communicate, whether we trust them to be truthful and fair with us, how well we approach a given problem, and so on. That doesn't mean I am a cultist to the 40-year-old down the street who cuts my hair out of her apartment; it just means that my mom and I trust her and have built a rapport with her, and that's about 90% of what we're buying as part of that service.

To sum it all up, Apple users buy trust, not specs.
 
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jjcs said:
Apple likely pays the right people off to avoid it.
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Apple are far far far far from alone in doing that. Any large corporation will pay lobbyists to “represent them” in Washington (aka bribe their way to a peaceful life).
 
TiggrToo said:
Apple are far far far far from alone in doing that. Any large corporation will pay lobbyists to “represent them” in Washington (aka bribe their way to a peaceful life).
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Didn't say they were unusual at all in that regard.
 
Abazigal said:
To sum it all up, Apple users buy trust, not specs.
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Considering the pre-Intel later PPC offerings, they pretty much had to.

I trust Apple to look out for Apple's stock price. Nothing more. I don't trust Apple to know what I need more than I do. It's a tool. Nothing more.
 
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Apple has worked with game developers to bring some titles to the Mac using MoltenVK, so it is possible to run Vulkan on the Mac.
 
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