Mac Studio Ultra Poor GPU Performance

[DKerman]

I'm a long time Mac user and "upgraded" from a iMac Pro with an eGpu to a Mac Studio Ultra. What a disappointment. I have never been disappointed with a Mac product like this. I am happy with CPU performance but a lot of my work is GPU based. I can't upgrade, I can't connect an eGpu. I'm stuck. Now I'm having to buy a PC laptop that I CAN connect a eGpu to. It'll blow the Studio out of the water, but it's ridiculous that I have to do this. Anybody else feeling this?

 

[handheldgames]

With my current live video streaming platform, I constantly push the GPU to its max and as a result have issues maintaining a 1080P/60 fps output. Let's 'hope' Apple enables PCIe video in the new MacPro and as such, opens up the eGPUs to the Mac Studio. While I'm not holding my breath, it would be a great to have.

 

[designerdave72]

I'm a long time Mac user and "upgraded" from a iMac Pro with an eGpu to a Mac Studio Ultra. What a disappointment. I have never been disappointed with a Mac product like this. I am happy with CPU performance but a lot of my work is GPU based. I can't upgrade, I can't connect an eGpu. I'm stuck. Now I'm having to buy a PC laptop that I CAN connect a eGpu to. It'll blow the Studio out of the water, but it's ridiculous that I have to do this. Anybody else feeling this?

Another valid reason why Apple should never have discontinued the 27” intel iMac 😏

 

[lcubed]

I'm a long time Mac user and "upgraded" from a iMac Pro with an eGpu to a Mac Studio Ultra. What a disappointment. I have never been disappointed with a Mac product like this. I am happy with CPU performance but a lot of my work is GPU based. I can't upgrade, I can't connect an eGpu. I'm stuck. Now I'm having to buy a PC laptop that I CAN connect a eGpu to. It'll blow the Studio out of the water, but it's ridiculous that I have to do this. Anybody else feeling this?

which software? much of the software i'm using for photo editing has be rewritten by their developers (DXO, adobe, Topaz, et al) to take full advantage of the GPU's on the M1 chip

OTH, still waiting for matlab to become m1 silicon non-beta

 

[Jorbanead]

I’m a bit dumbfounded - the GPU in the Max is leagues better than my Vega 64 eGPU. What kinds of graphics cards are you comparing this to? (Just saying eGPU doesn’t give us context).

The ultra GPU

With my current live video streaming platform, I constantly push the GPU to its max and as a result have issues maintaining a 1080P/60 fps output. Let's 'hope' Apple enables PCIe video in the new MacPro and as such, opens up the eGPUs to the Mac Studio. While I'm not holding my breath, it would be a great to have.

Is this platform running Rosetta? If it’s not, I really struggle to see how the ULTRA chip can’t process 1080/60 footage.

My M1 Max studio can handle multiple streams of 4K footage flawlessly, with overlays and graphics. But that’s using native software.

 

[ikir]

Even M1 Max destroy most eGPU (thunderbolt slow downs actual performance) so you software is not native or badly configured. If you find slow a Mac Studio you are the issue or the software, not the Mac Studio.

 

[Killerbob]

I'm a long time Mac user and "upgraded" from a iMac Pro with an eGpu to a Mac Studio Ultra. What a disappointment. I have never been disappointed with a Mac product like this. I am happy with CPU performance but a lot of my work is GPU based.

Please let us know what exactly you are trying to do with what software...

Like others have pointed out, the Mac Studio really is quite a powerhouse for most things. I have a 2019 Mac Pro, configured with two Radeon Pro W6600X/8GB, and 192GB of RAM, and I am not sure it is a heck of a lot faster than my Mac Studio M1 Max. In my day-to-day work, I know it is not, only when compiling videos do I actually feel the difference...

 

[smithdr]

Depends on the software. For example, Davinci Resolve Fusion is not well optimized for the MBP16 M1Max with 64GB RAM and 32 GPU cores and suspect the same for Ultra. When I have a project that has lots of nodes (100+) Apple Motion is almost three times faster than Fusion.

 

[handheldgames]

Using the Mac Studio for Live Streaming with OBS, I consistently push the Mac Studio Ultra's GPU to 95% utilization. Where the lack of overhead prevents my ability to render a 1080p/60 video stream at 10,000 kb/s. FWIW... This is less than what a 5700XT can push on an AMD 3900X hackintosh with 128GB of RAM and PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD. From what I remember, the Vega 64 is on par with the 5700XT, so claims the Studio's GPU is leagues ahead is based on what?

Chips aside, claims of wonderful video encoding and playback performance on the Mac Studio has more to do with the media engines than the GPU. Or am I missing something here?

 

[ondioline]

Are you actually using the hardware encoder?

 

[handheldgames]

The GPU is already running at 95% without using it for hardware encoding. I don't have any overhead to use it as I won't be able to maintain 60fps. Additionally, for live streaming while the Apple VT h264 encoder does not run in 4:4:4 color space and that's not an option for my video pipeline. It's the only way I can get accurate color representation from the camera, through obs and off to youtube.

There is plenty of CPU overhead available to leverage software based h264. Not apples due to the color issues.

 

[Jorbanead]

From what I remember, the Vega 64 is on par with the 5700XT, so claims the Studio's GPU is leagues ahead is based on what?

From personal experience. I used to use an eGPU with a Vega 64 - my M1 MAX is way better. I don’t understand how your ULTRA chip is not on another planet compared to the Vega.

Something is wrong.

 

[StoneJack]

reinstall OS, inspect the hardware, pram reset

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

reinstall OS, inspect the hardware, pram reset

is it possible to reset the PRAM of a M1 Mac?

 

[Killerbob]

is it possible to reset the PRAM of a M1 Mac?

Not really - the post is behind the times, as is the suggestion...

Reset NVRAM on your Mac - Apple Support

If one or more settings stored in NVRAM don't work as expected on an Intel-based Mac, resetting NVRAM might help.

support.apple.com

The steps to reset NVRAM and PRAM don't apply to Mac computers with Apple silicon, and aren't needed on those computers.

 

[BrianBaughn]

The OP never came back to expound on what he's trying to do.

handheldgames is having an issue with OBS and should probably take it up with the OBS developers…they might be very interested. The Apple Silicon native version of OBS came out last fall but that doesn't mean that it's coded optimally.

Apple Silicon/Third-Party software issues like this don't surprise me at all.

 

[Jorbanead]

The OP never came back to expound on what he's trying to do.

handheldgames is having an issue with OBS and should probably take it up with the OBS developers…they might be very interested. The Apple Silicon native version of OBS came out last fall but that doesn't mean that it's coded optimally.

Apple Silicon/Third-Party software issues like this don't surprise me at all.

This entire post is odd.

OP has only ever made one post and it’s this one. No other comments. The last time they were on MR was the day they made this post.

They don’t at all seem interested in hearing what people have to say. They also have almost no context or info on what issues they were having other than GPU = bad.

Of course the Ultra GPU is no 4090 - but to say the Ultra GPU is bad? In what way?

 

[innerproduct]

Guys, If you ever did any 3d rendering you would know that the OP is correct. The only 3D renderer that is available in a current version for ASi as well as AMD is called Redshift. On my MBP16 32 core I render basic scenes slightly, but just slightly, faster than on the vega64 I had in one of my eGPUS connected to a my older 2017 MBP. I have two eGPUS on that machine, the other being a RX6900xt which is at least 2x as fast as a a M1Max. So, the old 2016 MBP renders scenes about 3x the speed of my MBP16 in absolute terms. Oc, on the road the story is different but when I mostly use MBPs at a desk with external monitor.
So for the only task I have where I actually need performance, I lost 2/3 of the perforamance going for a new MBP. Quite sad. Considered the Ultra when it came out but after hearing about the lousy GPU scaling for rendering I never bought it. Still waiting for a solution. (and I solve all my actual 3D needs on PC. Otherwise I would not have had any business)

 

[handheldgames]

This entire post is odd.

OP has only ever made one post and it’s this one. No other comments. The last time they were on MR was the day they made this post.

They don’t at all seem interested in hearing what people have to say. They also have almost no context or info on what issues they were having other than GPU = bad.

Of course the Ultra GPU is no 4090 - but to say the Ultra GPU is bad? In what way?

I'm more than happy to hear other peoples comments. The biggest issue here is people are trying to call out tasks that take advantage of the ProRes centric media engine as 'GPU' performance. Which it is not.

As I've mentioned, going from a 5700xt(intel optimized app) to the Mac Studio Ultra(arm64 optimized app), I've observed and am dealing with a drop in performance that, aligns with the previous post to my reply. Bottom line, people are bringing up real-world scenarios that others are discounting.

Regarding OBS, it's coded the same way for ARM-64 as it was for x86-64. While there perhaps may be Apple Silicon improvements that could be made to take advantage of the new hardware, OBS is a community developed project and forking the implementation specifically for Apple Silicon Macs is not an option for a cross platform application.

In that light, although OBS is not optimized fully for MacOS, throwing hardware horsepower at it was a way to overcome the deficiency. Unfortunately, as of last year, Apple's most powerful mac ever, the $4k mac studio ultra, falls short when it comes to GPU cycles with no way to extend the architecture with external GPUs.

 

[Jorbanead]

I'm more than happy to hear other peoples comments. The biggest issue here is people are trying to call out tasks that take advantage of the ProRes centric media engine as 'GPU' performance. Which it is not.

As I've mentioned, going from a 5700xt(intel optimized app) to the Mac Studio Ultra(arm64 optimized app), I've observed and am dealing with a drop in performance that, aligns with the previous post to my reply. Bottom line, people are bringing up real-world scenarios that others are discounting.

Regarding OBS, it's coded the same way for ARM-64 as it was for x86-64. While there perhaps may be Apple Silicon improvements that could be made to take advantage of the new hardware, OBS is a community developed project and forking the implementation specifically for Apple Silicon Macs is not an option for a cross platform application.

In that light, although OBS is not optimized fully for MacOS, throwing hardware horsepower at it was a way to overcome the deficiency. Unfortunately, as of last year, Apple's most powerful mac ever, the $4k mac studio ultra, falls short when it comes to GPU cycles with no way to extend the architecture with external GPUs.

You’re not the OP. I wasn’t talking about you.

But in my experience the Max GPU (not related to media encoding engines) has far exceeded my AMD Vega 64 GPU. OBS is not a metric to say “Ultra GPU is bad” that’s one program.

 

[handheldgames]

Guys, If you ever did any 3d rendering you would know that the OP is correct. The only 3D renderer that is available in a current version for ASi as well as AMD is called Redshift. On my MBP16 32 core I render basic scenes slightly, but just slightly, faster than on the vega64 I had in one of my eGPUS connected to a my older 2017 MBP. I have two eGPUS on that machine, the other being a RX6900xt which is at least 2x as fast as a a M1Max. So, the old 2016 MBP renders scenes about 3x the speed of my MBP16 in absolute terms. Oc, on the road the story is different but when I mostly use MBPs at a desk with external monitor.
So for the only task I have where I actually need performance, I lost 2/3 of the perforamance going for a new MBP. Quite sad. Considered the Ultra when it came out but after hearing about the lousy GPU scaling for rendering I never bought it. Still waiting for a solution. (and I solve all my actual 3D needs on PC. Otherwise I would not have had any business)

Good feedback...

You’re not the OP. I wasn’t talking about you.

But in my experience the Max GPU (not related to media encoding engines) has far exceeded my AMD Vega 64 GPU. OBS is not a metric to say “Ultra GPU is bad” that’s one program.

I think you missed the point. The lack of GPU overhead affects 3D performance (above) and 2D frame rendering performance, in my case obs.

What apps are you using and how much did you saturate the GPU on your Vega64 compared to the Studio Max?

 

[okkibs]

going from a 5700xt(intel optimized app) to the Mac Studio Ultra(arm64 optimized app), I've observed and am dealing with a drop in performance

This is an issue with OBS specifically as the native ASi version isn't well optimized for the ASi chips and causes your slowdowns despite the M1 Ultra being on par or faster than the 5700XT across all metrics. It isn't an issue with the M1 Ultra, it's an issue for you using the M1 Ultra. You already know that and you know that you could get much more performance out of OBS either on a Windows machine or a hackintosh with a 6900 XT.

All this has nothing to do with the issue of OP unless they're using OBS as well, but we don't know since they abandoned the thread.

 

[Jorbanead]

What apps are you using and how much did you saturate the GPU on your Vega64 compared to the Studio Max?

Games, graphic design, photo editing: Using a lot of Adobe software, but also other design apps like Figma. I would often get very close to saturating the Vega 64 on big projects and of course games. Games that are also now running on Rosetta are still getting better FPS than on the Vega.