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Mac studio v1 fan noise - it's going to be one of the loudest Macs at idle.
- Thread starter AdamSeen
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In that link it says 15dB at idle?Mac Studio (2022) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support
support.apple.com
The sound power level is 2.5 Bels which is 25dB.
The readings will eventually be in decibels.*
*(https://www.ecma-international.org/wp-content/uploads/ECMA-109-10th-edition-December-2020.pdf)
Although this version of ECMA-109 currently continues to utilize bels as the unit with which sound power levels are declared, it is expected that future versions of this Standard will move toward the adoption of the decibel unit. The main reasons for this change are congruence with most other industries as well as reducing the confusion surrounding the meaning and significance of the bel to the public.
I will wait to receive mine before caring. I need to see real world use.
Okay I see you updated your original post with the link that states Sound Power Level.
Either way, as a sound engineer I can tell you that Sound Pressure Level is by far the more relevant as it relates to how we hear - but that also the SPL is largely dependent on your environment, placement in an acoustic space and what is in close proximity. These figures are notoriously hard to gauge from manufacturers' specs (too many variables) and best to wait for users in the field before making judgement.
You (OP) consistently ignore that Apple gives "SPL Operator Position" as 15dB right next to the Sound Power Level number you keep repeating.
Why do you persist in this?
Apple made a point about the Studios cooling design and (low) noise levels at their introduction of the machine, and the cooling apparatus actually seems quite sane, robust even. It pulls in air from a wide area and exhaust it via a generous perforated area that Apple went out of its way to comment on its low air flow impedance. This exhaust is also directed away from the assumed position of the user, which is why they present the SPL at the operator position - because this is taken into account in the design (halleluja!) and it is the number that is actually relevant to the user.
Now the proof of any pudding is in the eating, but the Studio, by design and total system power draw levels, should be capable of very quiet cooling - and Apples 15dB at operator position is indeed very low. To what extent that holds up when the machine gets stressed also remains to be seen, but it clearly has a vastly better thermal design than the MacBook Pros, Apple has actually leveraged the fact thay they have a desktop format device.
Fear mongering now is pointless. The machine will not only be in reviewer hands but in the hands of users. (Stores are generally quite noisy environments.) People will be able to make up their own minds.
Why do you persist in this?
Apple made a point about the Studios cooling design and (low) noise levels at their introduction of the machine, and the cooling apparatus actually seems quite sane, robust even. It pulls in air from a wide area and exhaust it via a generous perforated area that Apple went out of its way to comment on its low air flow impedance. This exhaust is also directed away from the assumed position of the user, which is why they present the SPL at the operator position - because this is taken into account in the design (halleluja!) and it is the number that is actually relevant to the user.
Now the proof of any pudding is in the eating, but the Studio, by design and total system power draw levels, should be capable of very quiet cooling - and Apples 15dB at operator position is indeed very low. To what extent that holds up when the machine gets stressed also remains to be seen, but it clearly has a vastly better thermal design than the MacBook Pros, Apple has actually leveraged the fact thay they have a desktop format device.
Fear mongering now is pointless. The machine will not only be in reviewer hands but in the hands of users. (Stores are generally quite noisy environments.) People will be able to make up their own minds.
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the OP seems to be having problems separating sound power and sound pressure level. in this case, we care about SPL
a former member of the Penn State Noise Control Lab
The sound power level is more relevant and accurate than the sound pressure level at the operator position because the sound pressure level at the operator position is non-standardised and there's no way to know what conditions it was tested in. e.g. Did they do it with sound-absorbing material?
For example, the iMac Pro is much quieter than the Mac Pro (2019). Yet the iMac Pro is 13dB (at operator position) vs 11dB Mac Pro. That would suggest the iMac Pro is louder - it is not.
"The sound power level (SWL) helps us around this. It is not dependent on distance, position or environment. This is the crucial difference. It is a theoretical value; it is not directly measurable. A noise source will have the same sound power irrespective of where it is placed. It gives us a level playing field to directly compare two sound sources. Predicting the noise levels from our plant enclosure is now much simpler, we can apply the same calculation to all of our equipment.
In summary, the SWL is very useful in quantifying how noisy a source is, like an extract fan or AHU, and therefore predicting the noise impact from a source in our new development, before it is built, without having to measure it. If you’re asked to provide noise data for something, your acoustician will always appreciate data which is given as a sound power level." - https://www.parkerjonesacoustics.com/insights/articles/sound-pressure-sound-power
Regardless, my posts center around talking about this issue and if it is a problem or not - which I hope it isn't - and we'll know in a couple of weeks. If it isn't a problem, fantastic. If it is, then we've got some history here and we can reference back to it.
This won't affect many, it's a niche issue and 99% of you won't give a damn about some fan noise.
For example, the iMac Pro is much quieter than the Mac Pro (2019). Yet the iMac Pro is 13dB (at operator position) vs 11dB Mac Pro. That would suggest the iMac Pro is louder - it is not.
"The sound power level (SWL) helps us around this. It is not dependent on distance, position or environment. This is the crucial difference. It is a theoretical value; it is not directly measurable. A noise source will have the same sound power irrespective of where it is placed. It gives us a level playing field to directly compare two sound sources. Predicting the noise levels from our plant enclosure is now much simpler, we can apply the same calculation to all of our equipment.
In summary, the SWL is very useful in quantifying how noisy a source is, like an extract fan or AHU, and therefore predicting the noise impact from a source in our new development, before it is built, without having to measure it. If you’re asked to provide noise data for something, your acoustician will always appreciate data which is given as a sound power level." - https://www.parkerjonesacoustics.com/insights/articles/sound-pressure-sound-power
Regardless, my posts center around talking about this issue and if it is a problem or not - which I hope it isn't - and we'll know in a couple of weeks. If it isn't a problem, fantastic. If it is, then we've got some history here and we can reference back to it.
This won't affect many, it's a niche issue and 99% of you won't give a damn about some fan noise.
With all due respect your comment seems as pointless as OP's original post. Even if a professional mic would pick up more or less noise it wouldn't change the fact that Mac Studio still would be more silent than my iMac which is the "loudest" Mac on the chart according to OP's source, i.e. Apple.
If I've never heard my "loud" iMac's fans even under heavy loud when I play games I can be sure that Mac Studio is NOT one of the loudest Macs. I can hear my iMac's air flow only when I put my ears near the vent on the backside. Another thing is that you can't move the iMac away if the noise bothers you without making your screen size worse, but you can move the Mac Studio further away if it would bother you.
The OP should have waited until they had tested Mac Studio under heavy load or seen some reviews before using yellow journalism and blowing up the subject with a clickbaiting title. This is a non-issue.
there are some very expensive (to acquire) IEEE standards for doing standardized airborne measurements. The standards include things like transducer measurement position, Hemi vs anechoic, T60 times, etc. Used to be a significant part of my job before i retired last month.
that said, Sound Pressure Level (SPL) is the one that matters here.
Pointless?
1st: Your iPhone is not a valid measuring device for this type of measurement. It’s simply not sensitive enough at that low level. Try to see how low a measurement you can’t get with it?
2nd: You are not stating where and how you took your 35 dB measurement, hence its even more pointless. Was it right next to the fan? At “operator position” (where ever that is?). Were you right next to the phone? Did you hold your breath? Did you touch it? What direction was the mic facing?
3rd: If you’re truly measuring 35 dB and perceive that as dead silent, then fine. That just shows that there’s something wrong with either your ears or your measurement.
4th: You are not getting the same measurement as Apple which again shows that your measurement is useless. And you are also measuring a 11 yo iMac probably filled with dust, bugs and everything. Comparing apples and oranges.
Apples own measurements are more trustworthy, but of course not perfect. If it’s the “operator position” or at the machine that’s most relevant depends on a lot. To me the “operator position” is like measuring the length of an earthworm or rubber band as long as they don’t state a fixed position/distance and orientation. On the iMac measurement it should be a given, but the other desktops… who knows?
But you are making two valid points: If YOU cannot hear your current iMac the YOU probably don’t have to worry about noise from the Studio. But that might as well be because your perception of “dead silent” is off.
And yes - We will all know more once critical reviewers within audio production have tried it in real life and shared their reviews. You can think of the OP’s motive about this post what you like. But the OP is at least with the numbers given trying his best to compare oranges and oranges and pointing out that it is a Mac with a higher sound level than the rest of the M1 crowd.
Noticeable and significant? We don’t know yet. For sure it’s not gonna make a difference for gaming or regular office use. In audio production it might be a different story.
This is Apple, it will be quieter than expected. They go out of their way (and other OEM’s have started to) to actually design the fan blades to produce a less noticeable pitch to their fans. I can’t imagine they haven’t done this for the Mac Studio as well.
This list has the Studio at 25 dB and the Trashcan at 20.5 dB. If these numbers are accurate that's not encouraging - I can hear my Trashcan just fine throughout the home office/living room area. There's never a question if it's powered on or off.
Yes, still pointless, because you seem to be missing the bigger picture or just ignoring it.
I’m not even sure what you are arguing against. Are you suggesting that my iMac 2011 should sound louder with proper measurement? That would make Mac Studio even quieter. Are you saying that my measurement is too high? That would also make the Mac Studio quieter because on paper it’s quieter than my iMac.
You criticize my ears and measurement and praise the OP for ”trying his best with the given numbers” while completely ignoring the fact that I also provided you with numbers from the same source, i.e. Apple.
That’s why your questioning is pointless, because you’re focusing on the wrong things to prove a point. It’s not about my numbers, ”dust and bugs” or ”apples and oranges” but actual data from Apple. You can question my ears, my iPhone and my methods but you can’t ignore Apple’s own measurement in a professional environment which you call ”more trustworthy”. It shows that my iMac is 5dB louder than Mac Studio. If you question that result then you should also question the OP instead of praising them because they use the same source to prove that Mac Studio is loud. Let’s not forget either that the OP also included Intel Macs in the chart and didn’t just compare to ”the rest of the M1 crowd”.
I never claimed that my measurement was scientific, everybody understands that but just for fun I measured the noise level again. This time I held the phone with the mic towards the iMac just like the last time, at the same height as my ears when sitting which is at the same level as my iMac’s top. The distance from the screen was about 70 cm (2.3 feet) and I held about an arm’s length to the phone. I also held my breath at 2 in the morning in a complete quiet room. This time I got about 29.5 dB. I got the same result with the iMac turned off which means the iMac is very quiet. I got about 34-35 dB when I put the mic near the iMac’s vent at the top.
I used NIOSH Sound Level Meter with my iPhone 7. It’s the most accurate app from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health according to this study. I would say that 29.5 dB is pretty accurate compared to Apple’s 30 dB.
Pointing out that Mac Studio is ”one of the loudest Macs” is like finding a new species of ants that are the loudest. While true why bother if you can’t even hear the ants scream. I guess those are the kind of people who would hear Mac Studio.
32.2 dB appears to be the ambient noise level in that environment.
his measurement equipment can't measure below the ambient.
the author notes other devices in the operating environment. without special measures in urban and other areas, it’s incredible difficult to get ambients levels below 20 dBA re 20 microPa.
I was just pointing out that using your phone to quantify noise at that low level is pointless, because it’s likely to be below the detection limit of the app/phone. The study you reference also clearly shows that. They measure 30 dB in an 25 dB environment with the noish app.
But in this post you did not compare apples and oranges. Good.
I guess I was confused by your first post which both had insults, your useless iPhone measurements, a sneaker and some fun test displayed, but the most important part with apples own measurement was just a link to an attachment. But let’s blame Mac rumors for that. Sometimes it’s a bit random what’s shown.
And yes - your Mac is spec’ed louder than the studio. Seems like the OP and the website didn’t include vintage macs. So apple has moved towards less noise since 2011 which I find great. If they are moving back towards more noise - not so great.
And I can hear my iMac 2020 27” which is spec’ed 2 dB lower than the studio.
I have a 6-core, sitting between the wall and a large monitor (invisible from my POV).
Not saying it's loud - just ... noticeable when its on. Like a midi tower PC with a silent kit.