Mac Vs. P.C. Convince someone today!

[habubauza]

Wow... just... wow.

You were doing just fine with your seven points, then the fanboy RDF kicked in. The 2500+ post Firewire is missing from the new Macbooks thread(s) should be enough to dispel the "only Pros need Firewire" debate. If not, the upgrade to Firewire 800 on the mini and iMac should be. We don't know what the OP's friend's Firewire camcorder is used for. Suppose it is used for family videos, meaning no revenue is being generated. How is the OP supposed to look at him with a straight face and say "you need to buy a professional laptop for $1000 extra"? (I guess this impossible task is what the OP is asking for help with ) If the friend needs coaxing to get a Mac laptop, we can safely assume he does not have a Mac desktop to carry his Firewire connection requirement. MBP sales are being cannibalized anyway... by Sony and Dell and... Apple might as well get a piece of that action.

To the OP: as others have said, that Sony has specs almost identical to the white Macbook. Bigger screen, but same resolution. Same speed FSB and type of RAM. It does have BluRay, ExpressCard (34mm like Apple uses) and a memory card reader but can't run OS X. The Macbook has Nvidia integrated graphics instead of Intel and can run iLife. I find iMovie infinitely better to use than Windows Movie Maker, but my wife's parents swear by WMM. Windows itself isn't horrible enough to spend an extra $1000, but iMovie is good enough to spend the extra $150 or so a memory upgrade to the white Macbook would cost. You would spend most of that back on anti-virus and a decent video editor to use with Windows.

Yeah, the White Macbook seems to be the best bang for the buck with the most hardware features. So that's my recommendation and I will move on. I have my own Macbook issues.

 

[beg_ne]

I wouldn't even try to well the MBP against that, it's insane to sell on the physical size of the screen 15". When the Resolution is the same as the MB 13" screen. I'd say go for the white MB or maybe Unibody if the case, screen etc. are worth it to the person.

Are things like the BluRay drive and Card readers something the user of the laptop will ever use? Those should be taken into account.

In general *I* think they tend to be useless "featuritis" that doesn't actually get used. Sometimes less is more.

 

[jzuena]

Yeah, the White Macbook seems to be the best bang for the buck with the most hardware features. So that's my recommendation and I will move on. I have my own Macbook issues.

My only Macbook problem is that I don't have one yet. I was planning on an Nvidia Whitebook until Apple refreshed the desktops. Since I do have an Apple desktop with Firewire and its replacement still has Firewire (800 even), I don't have to have Firewire on my next laptop. That at least brings the Unibodies back into consideration, although I'll probably still end up with the Whitebook. I'll probably try to wait it out long enough to see if the next Unibody refresh brings Firewire back.

I wouldn't even try to well the MBP against that, it's insane to sell on the physical size of the screen 15". When the Resolution is the same as the MB 13" screen. I'd say go for the white MB or maybe Unibody if the case, screen etc. are worth it to the person.

Are things like the BluRay drive and Card readers something the user of the laptop will ever use? Those should be taken into account.

In general *I* think they tend to be useless "featuritis" that doesn't actually get used. Sometimes less is more.

The only problem with the Unibody is that habubauza has already stated that the friend has a MiniDV camera. If the friend realizes later that he can't connect the camera up to his new Mac, who do you think he will make his first phone call to

 

[t0mat0]

Any mention about FW lack - you've got to put it into perspective that basically 1 generation of laptops is getting a raw deal, till USB 3 (or equivalent, though less likely) comes through. Heck, we're half way through pretty much the MacBook Pro product cycle. The laptop ranges are also having a much longer wait for Nehalem CPUs, and are constrained by TDP factors as to the GPU usage they can do. As lower TDP Core i7s become available, it'll filter through the Mac ranges, and hopefully have quite a decent effect. It's a pain, but if FW is that important to you, you have options and alternatives.

 

[stainlessliquid]

If you want to compare the MBP to something then the new Studio XPS is the best candidate, it looks nice and can be stacked with upgrades (including a high-res screen) for much less than the MBP.

2 yr old dell or sony sells for less than 50% original cost. while macs retain 75% value. there must be a reason no??

The reason is simple, its because there are more people selling PC's. Its the same reason new PCs are so much cheaper than new macs, PCs have to compete while macs dont. The resale value is a good selling point but selling a high priced item like a computer online is a headache with all the people trying to scam you, its not a viable option for most people.

You also asked about the new Unibodies being "stripped down"?

They're not... Before Apple releases a product or even begins to design a product, a thorough analysis of the market is made. What do MacBook users actually use on their machines? What do MacBook Pro users actually use on their machines? What features does the MacBook market really need and want? What about the MacBook Pro users?

So Pro users dont use firewire, they dont use a DVI connection, and they dont want a non-glossy screen? That doesnt make any sense. If you paid attention to the reaction of the new MBP you would see that Apple definitely did NOT do any kind of research about what that market wants.

1. A Mac works out of the box without the need for too much configuration.

It works out of the box, but how many boxes? Theyve stripped so many things out of their products that you have to buy a bunch of extra crap just to get basic professional usage out of it. Most other manufacturers dont do this, they give you everything you need in one box.

 

[NT1440]

So Pro users dont use firewire.

Man, then i guess that FW800 port is just a complete waste then.....

 

[CPD_1]

I love how everyone acts like this is the first time that Apple has dropped something in common use from a line of machines. Remember when they stopped including floppy drives in the first iMac? I'm sure nobody had floppies at the time.

The dropping of Firewire on the Unibody MB is exactly the same thing. They're phasing out something that is about to be made obsolete. I'm almost 99% positive that the next iteration will feature USB 3.0. For those who have firewire camcorders, sure it sucks, but that's how things are done. You know what other ports you don't see on Macs nowadays? Phone jacks, parallel ports, or ps/2 ports. There were plenty of folks using all of those things when Apple dropped them, and I'm sure there's still a few hold outs using their parallel port printers today, but holding on to things that are outdated only serves to clutter your system.

I'm a videographer. Aside from my personal machines below, I have two Mac Pros at any one time. I can, and sometimes do edit personal videos on my MacBook Pro, but anyone who really needs a firewire port should be looking at something other than the Unibody MacBook.

Just my opinion, FWIW.

EDIT: And, as pointed out above, I have a perfectly fine firewire port on my MBP. FW 800 is backwards compatible, and nobody forced me to upgrade from my older MBP to a new one. I chose it, and I chose to buy an ExpressCard 3/4 firewire card and an 800-->400 adapter.

 

[OneBlueFire]

Apple definitely did NOT do any kind of research about what that market wants.

LOL... So, you're saying that the 10,000 people who're complaining about the glossy screen on the 15" MBP are "the market"? That's a pretty small market... You made me laugh so hard... Hahahahahahaha!

 

[Gregintosh]

The resale value is a good selling point but selling a high priced item like a computer online is a headache with all the people trying to scam you, its not a viable option for most

That is very true. While in "theory" Macs retain more value it is far harder to find someone willing to fork over say $1,500 for a used computer than it is to find someone who is willing to fork over $500. In fact, I'd say its ten times harder.

This means that while in theory you can get more for your mac, be prepared to spend a lot of time finding a buyer. The best times to sell a mac for most users is when the new technology is about to be released so you can buy a new one.

Unfortunately, everyone has the same idea, so you definitely cannot command a high price around the time rumors start flying about updates because EVERYONE is trying to unload theirs. And after the new tech hits, its harder to get as much money because many casual users who have $1,500+ to spend on a computer also want the latest model for their money (and don't care if the latest model costs a few hundred more).

Perhaps the lowest end models can move (say you buy the $999 macbook with an education discount, and sell it for $650 or $700 a year later -- definitely be able to find a buyer), because at the lowest prices people count every penny they can save. But when you get into pro machines or anything above the $1,499 price point forget it. Its a whole different ball game. You will lose as much or close to as much value as a PC, and it will be a big pain the ass to find a buyer.

(Trust me, I learned this the hard way with my Macbook Air SSD in October, which took me a month to sell and I took a big hit on it even though it was only 8 months old. Thank god I got what I got for it anyway, because now new ones sell for less than what I was able to unload mine for).

 

[trip1ex]

Yeah that's one reason I've been sticking the lower end refurb iMacs. I think those move a bit easier when I go to resell them and they don't drop as much in value either.

I moved my nearly 1 yr old 20" 2.0ghz C2D aluminum iMac within a few days of listing it on Craigslist for $900 on Saturday. And I had to turn away another "angry with me" buyer the same day. I paid $1060 and got a free $100 printer from Apple's refurb site 1 year ago.

Today I bought a $1049 24" 2.4ghz refurb iMac. And got another free $100 printer. And my warranty is 1 yr again. I'll probably sell this printer just like I did the last one and lower my pricepoint.

Also easier to sell Macs because the choices are limited. EAsier for buyers to tell what they are getting than with a pc. And an iMac looks just as good a year later as a new one. No dustballs or flimsy trays or switches etc to be busted. And of course iMacs look pretty sharp to begin with.

I would never think of buying a whole pc from someone while I have bought a used iMac from a private buyer. It helps too if you sell them under the 1 year warranty. In this last sale of mine the iMac had 2 weeks of warranty left. Enough for the buyer to extend it if he or she wants and to make sure it isn't going to keel over the next day.

I think it is easier right now to move an aluminum Imac because they look the same as the new ones. The switch from white plastic to aluminum made it more difficult to move my old plastic Intel iMac when I decided to upgrade.

 

[NT1440]

That is very true. While in "theory" Macs retain more value it is far harder to find someone willing to fork over say $1,500 for a used computer than it is to find someone who is willing to fork over $500. In fact, I'd say its ten times harder.

I dont know about that, it seems pretty damn easy around here on craigslist.....


(maybe people in this area have more macs?)