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The new ARM-based devices are clients that would access Apple’s cloud mega-CPU and VMs. Services available by subscription only. Bring any software you already own/license and add it to your VMs. All arguments about CPUs, OSes, etc. are moot. Pay to play.
Speaking of which

"In a public recruitment advert, Apple has effectively announced that it’s developing new cloud-based services for third-party developers."

 
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yep. I’ll get one of each, probably. X86 for daily use, ARM for development and experimentation.
I might do the same eventually. I'll probably wait to see how the whole ARM situation shakes out before I make any investment in any Macs based on them, but I expect we'll see some impressive battery life gains. I'm optimistic that performance will be improved as well, if Apple's mobile chips in their current products are any indication.
 
The iDevice SoCs are not slightly elaborate. The latest models have neural logic as well as an FPGA. That second thing is kind of interesting: they may have also been using the FPGA in the lab to work on hardware x86-64 code translation, to facilitate high-performance emulation. If they have developed very good runtime translation logic, concerns about intel compatibility may be greatly diminished. This is no longer the '00s.
 
Ta-ta, Intel.

maybe, but they'd be replaced by AMD. ARM is not going to be a flagship processor in these anytime soon. things like the macbook pro are not going to be ARM when major professional programs do not take advantage of that chip
 
If they go all-ARM, will this eventually kill the Hackintoshes? I.e., ~7 years after they go all-ARM, they might release OS's that only run on those custom Apple chips.
 
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Prepare for all you softwares to be broken.
The softwares are likely broken as of Catalina anyway.
There will inevitably be a transition phase, using a "rosetta"-like translation layer for old Intel apps.
I don’t think so as anyone NEEDING to use an old Intel app can just keep their current system. No translation required.
January 2006 was the first few Intel Macs. August 7, 2006 was the Mac Pro announcement but when did it actually ship?
December 2006. I was counting from the day they started switching over all their systems to the day they were done, which is an impressive 12 months. We could see the first ARM systems released in Jan 2021 with all being updated by the end of 2021.
 
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I think Apple discovered a long time ago that all most users do with their Macs is web browsing and watch Youtube videos. Most users would be happy to have an iPad with a keyboard attached.

I would never by a Mac that can't run VMware or some other virtual machine software that allows a virtual Linux machine.

The Surface Pro X can run Linux via WSL / WSL2, surprised Apple haven't come up with something like that, yet....

I'd love an ARM based Mac mini for a home server, but I'd guess that desktop versions will be way down the line....
 
If they go all-ARM, will this eventually kill the Hackintoshes? I.e., ~7 years after they go all-ARM, they might release OS's that only run on those custom Apple chips.
I think it COULD kill the Hackintoshes, but folks who really want to do a thing sometimes ending up doing that thing no matter how difficult :)
 
Will be interesting to see how everything evolves in the next couple of years. With ARM Macs coming out, it will likely be the case that we will see iPad Pro running the same processor as a Macbook, and a similar one to say a MacBook Pro or future iMac.

With iPadOS becoming a more and more capable OS in its own right, it almost seems inevitable that eventually your going to see a slow form factor / interface merger (maybe convergence is a better word) of some kind. The first steps are already being taken with cross platform app purchases, then when all the devices are on ARM, it could be the same apps running with separate pointer/touch driven UI/UX, and then the third step will probably be where you can toggle between what interface you want, like dark and light mode today. I mean, how long is macOS going to be on major version 10??

I can’t see them trying to support two architectures simultaneously for very long, if at all. All the apps developed within Xcode will be architecture agnostic in any case, there‘s most likely going to be x86/64 binaries and ARM binaries that just get produced simultaneously when compiled, which will allow for seamless legacy x86/64 support. I envision it being done with a rollout of a new version of Xcode, so for most developers, all they would have to do is recompile the binary and then they would have a new version of the app that supports both architectures, just like that, ready for deployment. The key to that is going to be that it actually works, and that the process is as extremely easy for developers to manage. This means that it will have to be better than Catalyst currently is. It should be in most cases a one click process for devs.

If they launched a new ARM Macbook line with say the complete big desktop suites like MS Office, Adobe CC Suite, Premier, as well as all of their own apps (Final Cut Pro, etc) all ready to go from day one, they could pretty easily make the switch completely painless and transparent for the vast majority of users, without the ARM users even feeling like they are missing out on anything at all, maybe even feeling good about it, and the x86/64 machine owners just go on business as usual.

Of course they will need to have a virtualization tool ready to go for legacy apps...or do they? They dropped 32bit apps like a cancerous tumor, and basically said, “too bad,” to those that continued to rely on a certain app that won’t be upgraded. They’re still on Mojave, and will continue to be. (Whether that is good or bad is also a matter of debate among long time Apple users 🤣.

But, probably, like 32bit applications, it would make most sense to start communicating this change now, at least a full major OS release in advance...like now this year at WWDC. With a major change like this though, they probably will hold it close to their chests officially, as they wouldn’t want their stock to fluctuate on this news with the uncertainty of pulling it off successfully. A huge rollout launch with all the major players on board in a unified front would be a much more financially sound strategy.
 
Yes pesky unreliable chip partner Intel. That must be why it took 4 years to update the Mac Mini... :)
 
The concern i have is that they are going to lock it down hard. This 16" Macbook Pro may be my last Mac, particularly if they remove bootcamp functionality.

there will not be boot camp on arm based macs, they would have to recompile OS specifically for their chips. Will never happen.
I expect they will lock it down like iOS, you won’t be able to install apps without app store
 
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there will not be boot camp on arm based macs, they would have to recompile OS specifically for their chips. Will never happen.
I expect they will lock it down like iOS, you won’t be able to install apps without app store
There is already a Windows version for ARM, so Boot Camp is not entirely unreasonable.

I don't think they can push for a locked down macOS version, at least in the "pro" segment. Many users in that segment need more flexibility. At least to me, that would be a complete showstopper, far more problematic than a migration to ARM.
 
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Unless they have an absolutely killer x86 and x64 interpreter, then the last Intel Macbook might be the last Macbook I buy.
I've just read some comments on the "Apple switching to Intel" thread from 2005. Yours will also appear in the history books as we look back on this thread in 15 years.
 
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Between ditching 32 bit and now a new architecture change, all at record breaking obscene prices. Apple seems to be doing its utmost to make using their computers a chore.
 
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The Surface Pro X can run Linux via WSL / WSL2, surprised Apple haven't come up with something like that, yet....

WSL1 is a Microsoft-created system to re-create (most of) the Linux kernel APIs, allowing binaries compiled to run on a Linux kernel, to run 'natively' (i.e. no VM involved). It's not a dissimilar concept to Wine, where Windows compiled binaries run 'natively' on macOS/Linux/etc, with Wine providing the APIs that the binaries call.

WSL2 is an 'optimised' VM running on HyperV, but to enable it, windows is also running on HyperV.


The first isn't really required for macOS, because the vast majority of Linux compatible software can be compiled on macOS already - in part thanks to POSIX compliance.

The second is essentially a fancy way to run a VM and send commands to it. Given the state of point 1, most software people would be running via WSL already runs truly native on macOS.

If it truly doesn't run on macOS, a VM and a 2 line shell script (literally just `ssh name-of-vm-host -- "$@"`) will give you what the `wsl` command gives on Windows.



So what exactly is it that you think is somehow "missing", besides the built-in HyperV, which frankly is more of a hinderance than a help if you're not already balls-deep in using everything-microsoft.
 
If they make the new Macbook lineup as powerful as the new iPhone and keep the price relatively affordable (that's a joke), for me this is a good news. Maybe in 2030 I will be able to buy one... :))
 
Bummer, so no bootcamp then. only RT or some other borked version on these.

I wonder if it'll be an APU with graphics as well. Mac really needs to make gaming a thing now playable graphics has broadly become ubiquitous.
 
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The Surface Pro X can run Linux via WSL / WSL2, surprised Apple haven't come up with something like that, yet....
WSL1 is a Microsoft-created system to re-create (most of) the Linux kernel APIs, allowing binaries compiled to run on a Linux kernel, to run 'natively' (i.e. no VM involved).

The funny thing is macOS is "Mach services for FreeBSD". It is the Mach kernel, plus Apple's driver API, with pieces to present a FreeBSD API.
 
from announcement to last product launch Mac Pro 1,1

WWDC 2005 was the announcement, January 2006 was the first few Intel Macs. August 7, 2006 was the Mac Pro announcement but when did it actually ship?
They were available that day, so shipping time after order...pre-configured was just shipping time and BTO took slightly longer.
 
What do Vmware Fusion have to say about this? I run a Windows VM all day long for work. Windows on one display, MacOS on another. I'd hate to give up that way of working.
 
The more I think about this, the more I come to the conclusion that I simply don't trust Apple not to use this as an opportunity to remove functionality in the name of "security". I can't get the thought of a powerful ARM CPU mated to a totally locked down version of OS X that can only use software from the App store and hardware that has a licensed "Made for Mac" sticker on it. You gain some speed but lose freedom; is that worth it?
 
I've just read some comments on the "Apple switching to Intel" thread from 2005. Yours will also appear in the history books as we look back on this thread in 15 years.

This is different. Step from PPC to Intel was a step in the right direction, moving macs to x86 universe was not easy but it had plenty of advantages that out weighted the pains during transition phase.

It brought a wealth of software, made development easier and cheaper, hardware more compatible, today you can run a multitude of operating systems on macs (Linux, Windows)....

...this will all go away.
 
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This is different. Step from PPC to Intel was a step in the right direction, moving macs to x86 universe was not easy but it had plenty of advantages that out weighted the pains during transition phase.

It brought a wealth of software, made development easier and cheaper, hardware more compatible, today you can run a multitude of operating systems on macs (Linux, Windows)....

...this will all go away.
Both Windows and Linux have ARM versions. And, in Windows case, Microsoft is doing a lot to support old x86 software.
 
Makes a lot of sense...if ARM is cooler and last longer on battery, this is exactly what Apple wants, but how will that work when they obviously won't have ARM in a Mac Pro they just released?

As for bootcamp users, I guess Apple finally knows that its no longer a reason to keep it. Most of the software today is in the web, and the major software has a mac version, what Apple is saying is that "If you really need Windows...buy a Windows machine". There might be good news that running a virtual Windows on ARMs processor is possible... I don't know
 
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