Mac With Apple-Designed Arm Processor Coming in First Half of 2021

[Diseal3]

I understand what you are saying, but the vast vast vast majority of vendors do not provide Windows ARM versions of their binaries.
Most people running legacy, specialty, or gaming apps require Windows x86.

This does not support 64bit applications.

 

[cmaier]

I understand what you are saying, but the vast vast vast majority of vendors do not provide Windows ARM versions of their binaries.
Most people running legacy, specialty, or gaming apps require Windows x86.

This new mac can run iPadOS and iOS apps, which means you will see a bunch of new people buying macs (remember: the mac market is tiny compared to iOS), which will increase the size of the market, which will attract developers and encourage them to support ARM.

Windows didn't have the benefit of a massive ARM ecosystem to leverage off of.

 

[Falhófnir]

WWDC is the overwhelming likelihood for this - they have to announce the transition to developers alongside MacOS (maybe a new version/ series like 11.0?) - notably the MacBook Air was whittled down to one CPU option (i5) when it returned so I am thinking that might portend. I'm excited to see what Apple can do!

 

[rp2011]

Well, if this year’s WWDC invites are titled as another “Back to The Mac” event. It would certainly be apropos

 

[realtuner]

So many naysayers here.

Apple isn't going to force everyone over to ARM based devices on day one. Most likely the MacBook Air will get this processor first, since those users aren't running software that requires a lot of processing power. So people who run VMs, BootCamp or edit video have nothing to worry about as the MBP will certainly still be using Intel for a couple more years.

By introducing this on the "lightweight" machines first it gives developers plenty of time to try things out without leaving users stuck if they need more power.

Personally, I think a MacBook Air with built in cellular and ridiculous battery life that still runs most of the main Apps people use would sell like hotcakes.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Porting should be a straightforward recompile, which means all the major apps like Adobe's suite would be available on launch and hopefully other, smaller third-party apps would follow not long after.

It depends on the APIs and functions. If Apple doesn't change any of the APIs at all, and that every old function will continue to work, then you're right. But I'm not sure that's possible. Some of the APIs are unique to Intel. For example, the way you call the hardware-assisted HEVC encoder currently might be unique to Intel. I'm sure there will be a way to do the same thing on ARM, but it might be slightly different and will require a bit more of a rewrite in the software.

 

[Diseal3]

So many naysayers here.

Apple isn't going to force everyone over to ARM based devices on day one. Most likely the MacBook Air will get this processor first, since those users aren't running software that requires a lot of processing power. So people who run VMs, BootCamp or edit video have nothing to worry about as the MBP will certainly still be using Intel for a couple more years.

By introducing this on the "lightweight" machines first it gives developers plenty of time to try things out without leaving users stuck if they need more power.

Personally, I think a MacBook Air with built in cellular and ridiculous battery life that still runs most of the main Apps people use would sell like hotcakes.

I think this is the way it will go also. However, I strongly believe they will need to provide a means of virtualization for Windows as this is a major selling points for some people (Myself Included) who will just end up back with a Windows based laptop in order to get work done.

 

[cardfan]

So many naysayers here.

Apple isn't going to force everyone over to ARM based devices on day one. Most likely the MacBook Air will get this processor first, since those users aren't running software that requires a lot of processing power. So people who run VMs, BootCamp or edit video have nothing to worry about as the MBP will certainly still be using Intel for a couple more years.

By introducing this on the "lightweight" machines first it gives developers plenty of time to try things out without leaving users stuck if they need more power.

Personally, I think a MacBook Air with built in cellular and ridiculous battery life that still runs most of the main Apps people use would sell like hotcakes.

Except it's not going to run most of the apps that people use. Not as you know them. Perhaps ipad lite versions? You may as well use an ipad..

 

[cmaier]

It depends on the APIs and functions. If Apple doesn't change any of the APIs at all, and that every old function will continue to work, then you're right. But I'm not sure that's possible. Some of the APIs are unique to Intel. For example, the way you call the hardware-assisted HEVC encoder currently might be unique to Intel. I'm sure there will be a way to do the same thing on ARM, but it might be slightly different and will require a bit more of a rewrite in the software.

No, these functions are written at a higher level and would not require work. Apps that don't use the SDKs are where the problems will be. There aren't a lot of such programs, but some of them may be very important to some people.

 

[rp2011]

A whole lot of new Mac consumers will jump at it without hesitation. The legacy consumers will wait until their Macs need replacement to decide, which is about two to three years if their machines are relatively new.
Thats a good transition time.

 

[bsolar]

Unless they have an absolutely killer x86 and x64 interpreter, then the last Intel Macbook might be the last Macbook I buy.

There is just soooooooo much great software available for x86/x64 that is designed for traditional desktops and laptops that a switch away from x86/x64 would be giving up. Don't get me wrong, ARM is great but then might as well just have an iPad.

Switching to ARM doesn't mean those applications cannot be ported to it, sometimes very easily. The mileage may vary depending on the specific app, but usually anything coded at a high enough level should be trivial to port.

In the Linux world it's nothing new, there are already distributions supporting ARM architectures, e.g. Debian on Arm64:

Arm64 is an official debian release architecture in Jessie. (Yay!)

By the freeze on 5th November 2014, 10220 packages (93% of the archive) were built, and all the bootstrap uploads had been rebuilt. So nearly everything you expect is in the release

If your package does not build for arm64 it is usually trivial to fix, but sometimes a bit harder and sometimes a big deal.

 

[MallardDuck]

As an option, sure. As a replacement, it'd put a quick end to Mac use in corporate environments.

and it'd kiss gaming goodbye. Sure you might have iPad games, but the big titles would never port, and losing bootcamp would be the final fork in Mac gaming.

 

[cmaier]

Except it's not going to run most of the apps that people use. Not as you know them. Perhaps ipad lite versions? You may as well use an ipad..

I guarantee you that whatever Apple does, Office and Creative Cloud, and all of Apple's own pro software, will make the transition. So will most "big name" software and anything in the MAS.

What we lose will be software that's been dangling by a thread without updates for a long time.

 

[prometeus]

It's better you would write about S.P.Jobs his day... if you love apples

 

[Stella]

ARM will be fantastic on desktops and workstations, just like every other RISC architecture before it.

If you are willing to provide a desktop-style cooling solution (i.e. heatsink and fan) there's absolutely no reason ARM can't own x86-64.

Yes there is: existing software. People aren't going to buy ARM based processors if they can't run their existing software. Developers aren't going to target ARM based cpus is there's no market.

I'm thinking of windows market here, which is significantly higher than Macs.

 

[realtuner]

I think this is the way it will go also. However, I strongly believe they will need to provide a means of virtualization for Windows as this is a major selling points for some people (Myself Included) who will just end up back with a Windows based laptop in order to get work done.

We're a long way from there yet. I just bought a MBP 16", which I expect will still be working perfectly fine for many years to come. It will serve me well while Apple is making the transition.

Except it's not going to run most of the apps that people use. Not as you know them. Perhaps ipad lite versions? You may as well use an ipad..

You have absolutely nothing to back up this ridiculous claim.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

then the last Intel Macbook might be the last Macbook I buy.

The Intel Macs produced in the last year have all felt to me like “the last Mac many folks will buy.” People that need Intel compatibility in any way, including virtualization or emulation, will just get one of those. When compared to the millions of Macs sold every year, that number is likely to be infinitesimally tiny.

They can cream the current Macs and make everyone drool over the new machines.

This is my expectation. Anytime you have hardware designed specifically for software, and vice versa, you end up with a solution that outpaces benchmark expectations.

I am guessing Apple will keep 2 lines of products, both Intel (iMac, Macbook Pro) and Arm (Macbook, iPads etc).

In most every case where multiple lines could have been supported, Apple has shown themselves more willing to lean into the future. This helps to make things easier for developers, too as it removes uncertainty about the future.

 

[cmaier]

As an option, sure. As a replacement, it'd put a quick end to Mac use in corporate environments.

The *only* Apple hardware supported by most corporate environments is ARM-based.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I assume porting apps from iPad to Mac would be a lot simpler and that the Mac could greatly benefit from plenty of Apps.

 

[cmaier]

Yes there is: existing software. People aren't going to buy ARM based processors if they can't run their existing software. Developers aren't going to target ARM based cpus is there's no market.

There's "no market" for Mac software. It's tiny.

Switching to ARM will *grow* the market, not shrink it.

 

[H2SO4]

The concern i have is that they are going to lock it down hard. This 16" Macbook Pro may be my last Mac, particularly if they remove bootcamp functionality.

It'll turn out like the AppleTV where the older ones sell for more than the new ones.

 

[Kagio]

Short answer: it depends what you use a Mac for.

If you use the latest software from developers that already have a good presence in the iOS or Mac App Stores, then this transition will likely be relatively easy for you as long as you aren't an early adopter. Give it some time, and it will be seamless.

If you're the kind of user that has open source software, or generally gets your software from outside of any app store, or uses legacy software, this transition will probably suck.

The question isn't whether ARM can run everything (it can), it's whether developers will port everything to ARM. The answer to the latter isn't clear yet. Historically, developers have made a ton of mobile software (e.g., smartphone apps) for ARM. This is because Intel never had a meaningful presence in the mobile processor market. There has been some success for tablets, but only on iOS because Microsoft and Google have generally failed to get developers to make ARM tablet software on their platforms. All attempts to get developers to make ARM software for desktops and laptops has so far generally failed. Will Apple's switch finally be the catalyst that gets this going? We'll see.

As always, being an early adopter will probably be a headache. Look at the history of Apple's PowerPC to Intel transition. They didn't really hit their stride until a few generations in. First-gen ARM Macbooks will probably need to be replaced the soonest. If you want bang-for-buck and longevity, avoid the first and probably second generation of ARM Macs.

For both hardware and software reasons, I'd really say the average user should wait two years after the transition before making the switch to ARM.

The biggest implication will be the loss of support for legacy software. As a random example - there are a handful of apps for MacOS that support burning DVDs (yes, some people still do this). I am not confident the developers of those apps will re-write their apps to support ARM because as you can image the demand is very low. So it's highly unlikely that ARM Macs will ever support those apps. As another example - I have an open source app that converts one obscure file type to another. I am almost sure that app, which is really made for Linux, will never be ported to ARM.

The other major implication, and it has only been rumored, is that Apple will lock down MacOS like they have locked down iOS during the transition to ARM. In other words, MacOS will no longer allow apps to be installed from outside the official App Store. This will really turn off some developers from making software for Macs. Again, this is a rumor, but one that I consider likely.


It won't be a proper desktop/laptop. Hard as Google has tried, nobody considers ChromeBooks to be proper desktops/laptops. This will be the same.

Thank you very much man! really REALLY appreciate it.

Jesus that Mac lockdown sounds VERY scary .. I understand the app installing part, but you mean literally no file system, no through-terminal system manipulation, all that its bye too? <- this is the iOS lockdown level

 

[CarlJ]

There is just soooooooo much great software available for x86/x64 that is designed for traditional desktops and laptops that a switch away from x86/x64 would be giving up.

If that great software is compiled with Xcode, as nearly all Mac software is, then recompiling it for Apple's ARM-Mac chips is not going to be crazily difficult.

 

[dspdoc]

So I assume this will utterly break all software compatibility for companies like Avid, Adobe, Steinberg, PreSonus, Ableton and on and on and on...? This could be the PPC -> Intel nightmare all over again! I do not see these companies quickly rewriting all their software from the ground by any means. SMH

 

[Rogifan]

So the MacBook will be resurected.