MacBook Air 2018

[Ma2k5]

I won’t be surprised if Apple cares very little about that honestly.

They will move forward and on. They’ve never really cared too much about the compatibility part or capturing everyone and they will care less and less and less the bigger they get.

Workflows and tools will change and they want to lead there, not follow or live too far in the past.

Btw: I’m not saying I love all aspects of this, but it’s what I objectively expect.

I’ll give you my take on it (my education also meant I had to study RISC vs CISC processors, to even old Apple PowerPC CPU’s so I do find this area interesting).

Let’s assume for arguments sake you get more performance (this idea if 3x etc isn’t realistic, also you should look up the limitations of synthetic benchmarks which make iPad for example look more powerful than it is due to the architectural difference between the CPU’s).

If Apple went ARM next year, you’ll have a very Windows 10S experience. You’ll have to get apps which are on App Store, they may partner up with some vendors like Adobe or Microsoft to get their suite up. However, the idea of freely being able to download and use any software will be gone, as it is on Windows 10S.

For such limitations, it seems kind of pointless to have all that’s power - and then be limited in what you can do. Sounds like another one of their products right? The iPad .

But I want to discuss a more pressing issue - for the majority of users, it is never the case we are starving for more power. Why go through the headache of moving to ARM for gains that you won’t perceive at the cost of a huge amount of issues?

I think we are far from an ARM MacOS/Windows which I believe would be actually worth switching to. Three years and Apple hasn’t managed to fix the keyboard, can they reall make ARM work in less than 5 years?

I don’t envy the developers working on that project, I’d run a mile!

 

[turbineseaplane]

You can call a Ford a Ferrari and it won't be one. But if Ferrari buys the intellectual property for the Focus off Ford and then releases a Ferrari Focus, then it's a Ferrari.

Sorry that’s all too much for me to understand.

The point is the MacBook air was a much more powerful computer and it was far more flexible with build to order options on the CPU and covered a much wider range of potential uses in the past.

This new one is a 13” screen bolted onto a retina MacBook and simply called a MacBook Air while missing so much of what actually made a MacBook Air desirable to so many.
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But I want to discuss a more pressing issue - for the majority of users, it is never the case we are starving for more power. Why go through the headache of moving to ARM for gains that you won’t perceive at the cost of a huge amount of issues?

The reason for the headache is controlling all aspects of their designs, Which could have nearly incalculable upsides to those of us external to it.

To address the rest of your points I do expect this will go part and parcel with the marzipan apps and a wider range of what’s allowed within the App Store ecosystem.

The era of wide-open installing everything you want is likely coming to an end at least for Apple users… And honestly there are some good things about that from a security and vulnerability standpoint.

 

[EugW]

The main

I’ll give you my take on it (my education also meant I had to study RISC vs CISC processors, to even old Apple PowerPC CPU’s so I do find this area interesting).

Let’s assume for arguments sake you get more performance (this idea if 3x etc isn’t realistic, also you should look up the limitations of synthetic benchmarks which make iPad for example look more powerful than it is due to the architectural difference between the CPU’s).

If Apple went ARM next year, you’ll have a very Windows 10S experience. You’ll have to get apps which are on App Store, they may partner up with some vendors like Adobe or Microsoft to get their suite up. However, the idea of freely being able to download and use any software will be gone, as it is on Windows 10S.

For such limitations, it seems kind of pointless to have all that’s power - and then be limited in what you can do. Sounds like another one of their products right? The iPad .

But I want to discuss a more pressing issue - for the majority of users, it is never the case we are starving for more power. Why go through the headache of moving to ARM for gains that you won’t perceive at the cost of a huge amount of issues?

I think we are far from an ARM MacOS/Windows which I believe would be actually worth switching to.

Yes but you have to start somewhere. I predict we will have ARM Macs sooner rather than later... with Apple selling Intel Macs at the same time for years.

BTW, the argument that device compatibility is a huge problem is a reasonable one, but it isn't anywhere near as big of a problem on macOS as it is on Windows, since Apple controls the hardware design as well.

 

[raqball]

This new one is a 13” screen bolted onto a retina MacBook and simply called a MacBook Air while missing so much of what actually made a MacBook Air desirable to so many.

I am ready for Mac's to move on from Intel but I don't see it happening... Apple is all in on iPads and iPhones and as of late, appears as though they'd love to abandon the MacBooks......

The processor in the Air is basically an m5... Sure Intel calls it an i5 but...... I am not sure if I am going to keep my Air or not. I like have touchID without the TB but performance is rather underwhelming at this point and the dim screen is bummer # 2...

 

[turbineseaplane]

Yes but you have to start somewhere

Absolutely!

I’m ready like yesterday as long as they get Microsoft and Adobe apps on there.

Actually now that I’ve said that out loud I could exist without office and Photoshop because there are alternatives that work just great for what I need already.

I know that the first class mac developers will very quickly adopt these changes and all of that will cover all of my uses honestly.
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performance is rather underwhelming

If that’s your feeling about it when it’s brand new I don’t even know how you could consider keeping it, right?

 

[EugW]

First impressions coming from 2015 11" MBA:

• Machine is kind of big and heavy
• Key travel is small but feels tight
• Screen is really nice.
• Glad to have Space Grey after many years of silver 11" MBA

Yeah, my favourite small laptop of yesteryear was the 12" PowerBook/iBook. The 14" iBook feels awkward in comparison when in smaller spaces (economy class on the plane), and is a lot heavier.

Fast forward to modern times and my favourite small laptop is the 12" MacBook. The 13" models feel awkward in comparison when in smaller spaces (economy class on the plane), and are a lot heavier.

 

[raqball]

If that’s your feeling about it when it’s brand new I don’t even know how you could consider keeping it, right?

Every time I go to grab the box to get it ready to go back to the mothership, touchID calls my name.... It's really the only thing I dig about the Air.......

A TB MacBook is not even a consideration for me. Had one in 2016 and gimmick, gimmick, gimmick... I won't pay an extra cent for it....

Not sure what I am going to do but am leaning towards returning it.. If the iPad had a bit more functionality I'd consider the 12.9 with KB....

Am leaning towards a nTB but also researching the new iPad as a PC replacement.. The iPad # 1 downfall in that area for me at least is the inability to use a USB stick to transfer files ect to it..... The # 2 issue is lack of being able to download and install programs I use...

 

[Ma2k5]

The era of wide-open installing everything you want is likely coming to an end at least for Apple users… And honestly there are some good things about that from a security and vulnerability standpoint.

I disagree wholeheartedly about the limitations, it will kill of macOS and Apple will be aware of that. It’s completely differently to have iOS in a closed garden environment as it’s an end user experience - but macOS is required for development and 100 other uses that won’t work in a limited environment. There is a reason why Windows ARM/10S was never a success, its not what desktop OS is about.

When Apple do go the ARM route, and I’m expecting Microsoft to do so as well (Windows 10S won’t do), they won’t be making it anything like iOS, and they will try to make it exactly like todays macOS. But it’s some years to go.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I just hope you guys are all going to check back in here when the Arm Macs come…

Apples going to chart ahead on this stuff, issues be damned, trust me.
This is how they’ve always been.

I can promise you that I will be here and admit if I’m totally wrong about the future here

 

[EugW]

My benchmark:

MacBook Air, 16GB RAM, 512GB SDD

View attachment 802352

Comparing this to my 5 yer old MacBook Pro 13'' Late 2013, i7, 16GB RAM, performance is underwhelming.


Multi-Core is score is about 10% higher on my 5 year old machine. Single Core and OpenGL are better on the new Air.
Not sure for now but I tend towards sending it back and getting the fu*** TouchBar MBP 13'' inch as battery life seems pretty good with that machine, too, while also having that improved performance I am looking for.

So, 262. Hmmm...

Note that I get 265 on my Core m3 MacBook from 2017. It should be noted also that Macworld got 286 for the Air.

Do you have a lot of background processes running?

And yeah, how is the fan noise after you've run the test a few times?

 

[Ma2k5]

I just hope you guys are all going to check back in here when the Arm Macs come…

Apples going to chart ahead on this stuff, issues be damned, trust me.
This is how they’ve always been.

I can promise you that I will be here and admit if I’m totally wrong about the future here

As a developer, I honestly can’t trust you because its impossible that Apple make it a closed garden. They will go ARM one day no one is denying that, The only thing to speculate is when and how long it will take them to resolve the issues - but the closed garden idea is not even up for debate.

 

[EugW]

Every time I go to grab the box to get it ready to go back to the mothership, touchID calls my name.... It's really the only thing I dig about the Air.......

A TB MacBook is not even a consideration for me. Had one in 2016 and gimmick, gimmick, gimmick... I won't pay an extra cent for it....

Not sure what I am going to do but am leaning towards returning it.. If the iPad had a bit more functionality I'd consider the 12.9 with KB....

Am leaning towards a nTB but also researching the new iPad as a PC replacement.. The iPad # 1 downfall in that area for me at least is the inability to use a USB stick to transfer files ect to it..... The # 2 issue is lack of being able to download and install programs I use...

The new iPad Pro is USB-C, but I can't get anything productive done on an iPad regardless. The OS simply isn't suited it to it IMO, for what I do. MS Office for example is an exercise in frustration, for example.

In your shoes I'd get the non-TB MBP.

 

[Ma2k5]

The main

Yes but you have to start somewhere. I predict we will have ARM Macs sooner rather than later... with Apple selling Intel Macs at the same time for years.

BTW, the argument that device compatibility is a huge problem is a reasonable one, but it isn't anywhere near as big of a problem on macOS as it is on Windows, since Apple controls the hardware design as well.

Hardware more on the level of connected devices compatibility, not so much internal.

They will start, but not next year.

 

[EugW]

Hardware more on the level of connected devices compatibility, not so much internal.

They will start, but not next year.

I was thinking 2020.

 

[turbineseaplane]

As a developer, I honestly can’t trust you because its impossible that Apple make it a closed garden. They will go ARM one day no one is denying that, The only thing to speculate is when and how long it will take them to resolve the issues - but the closed garden idea is not even up for debate.

Agree to disagree.

Let’s just see how the closed garden goes with some of those Mac developers they reached out to in a effort to do it in a way that works for them -like Panic

I think people don’t realize that Apple cares about themselves and their goals for their platforms much more than they care about covering everybody’s existing usages or desired or potential usages and edge cases.

This is the mainstream device and lifestyle company at this point and as long as they cover their own primary developer and creative customer uses, they will do what they think is best.

Remember this is one of the things we’re supposed to love about a great company the charts ahead into the future. We’re counting on them to see the vision for their future and go towards it irrespective of pushback in the near term.

Again as I said earlier I’m not saying I love all aspects of that but I have to trust that they know what they’re doing.

All of this said, I can certainly see high end Intel Macs existing alongside of these things for a long time but it will be a very boring place to be most likely, sort of how it is right now on the Mac with iOS just getting all the love and all the hardware attention etc. etc.

 

[Ma2k5]

Agree to disagree.

Let’s just see how the closed garden goes with some of those Mac developers they reached out to in a effort to do it in a way that works for them -like Panic

I think people don’t realize that Apple cares about themselves and their goals for their platforms much more than they care about covering everybody’s existing usages or desired or potential usages and edge cases.

This is the mainstream device and lifestyle company at this point and as long as they cover their own primary developer and creative customer uses, they will do what they think is best.

Remember this is one of the things we’re supposed to love about a great company the charts ahead into the future. We’re counting on them to see the vision for their future and go towards it irrespective of pushback in the near term.

Again as I said earlier I’m not saying I love all aspects of that but I have to trust that they know what they’re doing.

I agree Apple know what they are doing - which is why they won’t make it a closed garden. Not sure where you got that idea from. They won’t kill the platform that was responsible for the success of iOS.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I agree Apple know what they are doing - which is why they won’t make it a closed garden. Not sure where you got that idea from. They won’t kill the platform that was responsible for the success of iOS.

All right… We arent making any headway here and I disagree with a lot of what you are saying so let’s just leave it here and see how life goes and not clutter the thread anymore.

Cheers

 

[Ma2k5]

All right… We arent making any headway here and I disagree with a lot of what you are saying so let’s just leave it here and see how life goes and not clutter the thread anymore.

Cheers

Sure, but just to confirm, there are no sources to suggest a closed macOS system that I missed right - and it’s pure speculation by you? To me, there is more chance that Apple pre-loads Windows on future MacBooks for an additional $99 and I’m being serious.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Sure, but just to confirm, there are no sources to suggest a closed macOS system that I missed right? To me, there is more chance that Apple pre-loads Windows on future MacBooks for an additional $99 and I’m being serious.

You think there is more chance that Apple is going to sell MacBooks with Windows pre-loaded on it than simply having a fully closed software garden?

You and I are on opposite ends of the future productions spectrum for sure.
Can we agree to disagree and move on and stop cluttering up the thread?

 

[EugW]

No way macOS will be completely closed on ARM. Kinda makes macOS pointless. May as well just buy an iPad (once it gets more macOS like features). But they could tighten macOS up to a certain extent, as they have been doing over the years.

Hardware more on the level of connected devices compatibility, not so much internal.

For external devices, they'll just tell everyone they have to deal with it themselves. In fact, they do that every year. All sorts of USB-C devices that worked with the 2016 Macs no longer worked with the 2017 Macs. Apple didn't care.

 

[turbineseaplane]

No way macOS will be completely closed on ARM. Kinda makes macOS pointless. May as well just buy an iPad. But they could tighten macOS up to a certain extent, as they have been doing over the years.

I guess were into semantics a little bit here, but if mainstream developers get on board that one cares about do you really think anybody will care if it’s fully closed beyond us dorks?

Most people just have their uses for their computer, professional or otherwise, and as long as that gets accomplished in a safe, secure, easy and efficient way, they’re onboard.

I can definitely see the Mac closed/regulated as an ecosystem but just finally having everything a user cares about software wise onboard with that ecosystem.

The only reason people balked at it so far is because they were trying to make it too tight of a control…

If they loosen that up, as you suggest, that problem will go away.
[doublepost=1541701209][/doublepost]Anyways… I just promised to stop talking about this and cluttering up the thread… LOL
I’m out of here for now - see you guys

Cheers

 

[Ma2k5]

I guess were into semantics a little bit here, but if mainstream developers get on board that you care about do you really think anybody will care if it’s fully closed beyond us dorks?

Most people just have their uses for their computer, professional or otherwise, and as long as that gets accomplished in a safe ,secure, easy and efficient way, they’re onboard.

I can completely see the Mac completely closed as an ecosystem but just finally having everything you care about on board with that ecosystem.

The only reason people balke at it so far is because they were trying to make it too tight of a control…
If they loosen that up, as you suggest, that problem will go away.

It might be you not having a developer background, but I have to let you know this is not a difference of opinion but a lack of knowledge about the world of development and developer OS needs. MacOS can’t be closed because it is used to create the software for the closed garden that Apple makes so much money off, including software for macOS

There is no magical mainstream developers, it doesn’t matter if most people only use a few apps - you will need some dorks with full autonomy to create all that magical experience you want. Any sort of closed system will hurt Apple and end customers who aren’t “dorks”. Apple can’t make even a semi closed system and have the developers make do or adjust - it doesn’t work like that.

There isn’t like 5 or 100 mainstream dev tools, there are 1000’s.

 

[Geert76]

there is a Software Update, specially for the new 2018 MacBook Air.

Downloading it now, it's 1,48Gb (pretty big, I think)

 

[turbineseaplane]

there is a Software Update, specially for the new 2018 MacBook Air.

Downloading it now, it's 1,48Gb (pretty big, I think)

Does it install a higher wattage processor?

 

[Geert76]

Does it install a higher wattage processor?

that, and I can finally make Nespresso coffee through my Macbook