MacBook Air 2018

[0014]

That’s all well and good - the issue is the nTB being only $100 more for that better screen and better processor, despite being 2 years old in design. You can try look for things better on the Air, but again, you are comparing to something 2 years out of date.

I wasn’t referring to the power. I was only referring to the screen.

Doesn’t matter that the nTB MBP is 2yr old tech. I can buy a 2yr old BMW M5 that is faster and better than a new 340i. Unless you compare like for like you aren’t doing yourself any favours. My 3.5yr old 13” rMBP is nigh on just as powerful as the MBA. But it’s still old tech.

But let’s look at the two laptops you’re comparing. Even though they are aimed at different users.

-Both are dual core
-The base MBP is not a great deal faster despite what people are saying. But it should be being a 2.3ghz vs a 1.6ghz. It’s Multicore score is only around the 8.8-9k mark. The MBA is around the 7.8-8k. It’s not as if it’s going to halve your compiling or editing times
-The screen is different in favour of the MBP
-The graphics are marginally better on the MBP
-Both can have 16gb RAM
-Battery life is supposedly better on the MBA (jury still out on that as it’s only just been released)
-Size is very similar
-Weight in favour of the MBA but not by much.
-Both have ac WiFi
-Both have 4.2 Bluetooth
-Both have USB-C/TB3
-MBA is cheaper not by much. But it is still cheaper.

The problem for most at the moment is the price difference between the MBA and MBP. But you also need to account for who the MBA and MBP are aimed at

MBA is aimed at students and those that need a computer to do basic word processing, spreadsheets, reports, surfing the web and the odd video/photo edit etc.

Base MBP is aimed at those with all of the above requirements plus more intense photo and video editing and the odd light game.

I see apple doing one of two things soon.

Dropping the nTB MBP altogether (I think most likely). Which will irk me a tad as I don’t like the TB.
Dropping the price of the MB and/or upgrading the specs and leaving the price as is.
A slight processor upgrade on the nTB MBP and price increase (unlikely given it’s not been touched this year when they upped the TB MBP’s)

I’m not defending Apple marketing strategy at the moment as it’s took me a few days to make sense of it. The pricing structure is odd. But for me if you don’t need the additional power then the MBA is perfectly fine. It may “only be another $100”. But it’s $100 you don’t need to spend and it will not make the laptop last that much longer than the MBA, if at all.

My 2015 MBP lifespan in theory will last just as long as the 2018 MBA and 2017 nTB MBP. After all it benchmarks in the same region as the MBA and not much less than the MBP.

But the way I look at it (and admittedly initially I viewed it different) is that the MBA with a far less powerful processor (1.6 vs 2.9) is getting slightly better single core, same multicore and similar OpenGL scores. So actually things have progressed quite a bit.

 

[tomscott1988]

Yea you spoke too soon on that one i was all for it until I kept hearing about these keyboard issues with the 3rd gen and the price differences.

I’ve actually looked online and with my discount I can get either the Air which will cost me £1,672.80 for 16GB Ram and 512GB SSD, HOWEVER for an extra £328.80 I can get the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar with 16GB Ram, core i5 quad core and 512GB SSD, with my discount that will come too £2,001.60

Maybe that much power is over kill for me but it is very temping to make the jump, especially when factoring in all the differences including the screen, the only thing that puts me off again is the 3rd gen keyboard. I will see what happens with this Air over the coming weeks,

Also I have been informed that Black Friday will start later this month and last year Apple gave away £120 gift cards with purchases of Mac’s, waiting for a couple more weeks won’t be a problem, but I will make a decision by then either way.

It’s taken me forever including the waiting, but Apple’s lineup is so confusing to me that it makes my head swirl it never use to be like this.

Well its pointless waiting now because it will be 10 months before another product will be announced. This is it for 2018.

If there were issues with the 3rd gen keyboard we would know about it by now, it seems like apple has fixed this issue and you either love it or hate it.

I have the gen 1 2015 macbook and i haven't had a single problem with it over the last 2 years, but I dont eat over it and keep it clean... but im not obsessive with cleaning it either. I know a lot of people dont treat their products the same way so mileage varies but I wouldn't have any issue buying another one as technically mine is the worst and its been fine.

TBH what you want to do these low end products arent really suitable for you anyway. You "CAN" do what you want to do but I dont think it will be a satisfactory experience considering the money. The 12" macbook can edit 4k video fine with final cut but the program has been designed to render previews in the background as soon as you start to render anything it absolutely falls flat on its face and takes forever.

Same with anything, it will work with lightroom too but importing and exporting is a futile experience.

TBH if you buy a macbook air with even measly specs 8gbs and 256gb its £1351 on perkbox, if you actually add specs that will be suitable for a 3-5 year period 16gb and 512gb ssd it jumps up to £1700.

Adding a 1.5tb drive puts it up to £2442...

The 2018 macbook pro 13 gets you a far better display being far brighter and colour accurate, you double the processing performance, far better integrated graphics, you get much faster ram and the weight difference is minimal.

Like you say the 2018 macbook pro 13 i5 quad 16gbs 512gb is £300 more than the macbook air with the same spec. Its a no brainer.

Think of the time youve waited... its £300... over a 5 year period this £2000 macbook pro will cost you £33 per month... just over a pound a day lol.

The longer you wait the older they get its a catch 22. Where do you draw the line? Being indecisive is just stupid with tech. Buy it, Enjoy it and be productive. Real life useage is completely different to these forums. The MBP gives you some room the macbook and macbook air dont.

The 13" macbook pro is the best device here for the work you want to do. It will drive a 5k monitor and outperforms 90% of all macs in a tiny package!

If you want to make more of it you could buy a EGPU and use your imac as a secondary display as it will run circles round that also.

TBH if you want to replace your laptop and iMac buy the new mac mini and use your iMac as a display... again the i7 512 mac mini is like £1344 and is one of the fastest machines you can buy and you can replace the ram yourself... add 32gbs ram at £266 you still under the £1700 for the macbook air.

The portable apple line up is confusing but there is certainly something for everyone here. I wish they would drop the old products but people will buy them and they will make money so... cant argue with their greedy logic.

Surface products look great but they are really unreliable and everyone I know who has had one has been disappointed and moved back. Specs are great in reality not so.

 

[Ma2k5]

I wasn’t referring to the power. I was only referring to the screen.

Doesn’t matter that the nTB MBP is 2yr old tech. I can buy a 2yr old BMW M5 that is faster and better than a new 340i. Unless you compare like for like you aren’t doing yourself any favours. My 3.5yr old 13” rMBP is nigh on just as powerful as the MBA. But it’s still old tech.

The car comparison is poor - and is actually validly used in many car reviews. When someone releases a car which is pretty much worse than 2 year old tech, it gets pretty badly shafted unless it made great strides elsewhere or it was significantly cheaper. Air failed to do that.

But let’s look at the two laptops you’re comparing. Even though they are aimed at different users.

-Both are dual core
-The base MBP is not a great deal faster despite what people are saying. But it should be being a 2.3ghz vs a 1.6ghz. It’s Multicore score is only around the 8.8-9k mark. The MBA is around the 7.8-8k. It’s not as if it’s going to halve your compiling or editing times
-The screen is different in favour of the MBP
-The graphics are marginally better on the MBP
-Both can have 16gb RAM
-Battery life is supposedly better on the MBA (jury still out on that as it’s only just been released)
-Size is very similar
-Weight in favour of the MBA but not by much.
-Both have ac WiFi
-Both have 4.2 Bluetooth
-Both have USB-C/TB3
-MBA is cheaper not by much. But it is still cheaper.

I would first take the benchmarks with a grain of salt - they make some processors appear more capable then they are. I got quite a few real world work flows that would work better smooth on the nTB but not on MBA, which these benchmarks mask.

On that list, there are some positives of the MBA you missed out, which was integrated wave 2 WiFi, TouchID and gen 3 keyboard.

I will say that GPU work will be quite different between the two machines, it’s not marginally better IMO, again benchmarks don’t always reflect real world usage.

The problem for most at the moment is the price difference between the MBA and MBP. But you also need to account for who the MBA and MBP are aimed at

MBA is aimed at students and those that need a computer to do basic word processing, spreadsheets, reports, surfing the web and the odd video/photo edit etc.

Base MBP is aimed at those with all of the above requirements plus more intense photo and video editing and the odd light game.

I see apple doing one of two things soon.

Dropping the nTB MBP altogether (I think most likely). Which will irk me a tad as I don’t like the TB.
Dropping the price of the MB and/or upgrading the specs and leaving the price as is.
A slight processor upgrade on the nTB MBP and price increase (unlikely given it’s not been touched this year when they upped the TB MBP’s)

I’m not defending Apple marketing strategy at the moment as it’s took me a few days to make sense of it. The pricing structure is odd. But for me if you don’t need the additional power then the MBA is perfectly fine. It may “only be another $100”. But it’s $100 you don’t need to spend and it will not make the laptop last that much longer than the MBA, if at all.

My 2015 MBP lifespan in theory will last just as long as the 2018 MBA and 2017 nTB MBP. After all it benchmarks in the same region as the MBA and not much less than the MBP.

But the way I look at it (and admittedly initially I viewed it different) is that the MBA with a far less powerful processor (1.6 vs 2.9) is getting slightly better single core, same multicore and similar OpenGL scores. So actually things have progressed quite a bit.

Apple will likely drop the nTB, which is fine.

I just wanted a product which smashes the 2 year old lazy nTB that Apple released. Instead they created a lazy product which doesn’t bring justice to the 10 year anniversary of MacBook Air. I didn’t want old tech on it such as the screen or the chassis - which is a copy of the nTB with an added wedge. The machine is larger than other Window laptops which host 15W CPU’s and have really strong performance. If they wanted to go this route, they should have made the Air even smaller/thinner. They could have done it with more R&D but they decided not to.

Since they created a lazy product, pricing should have been $999 to reflect that.

 

[0014]

The car comparison is poor - and is actually validly used in many car reviews. When someone releases a car which is pretty much worse than 2 year old tech, it gets pretty badly shafted unless it made great strides elsewhere or it was significantly cheaper. Air failed to do that.



I would first take the benchmarks with a grain of salt - they make some processors appear more capable then they are. I got quite a few real world work flows that would work better smooth on the nTB but not on MBA, which these benchmarks mask.

On that list, there are some positives of the MBA you missed out, which was integrated wave 2 WiFi, TouchID and gen 3 keyboard.

I will say that GPU work will be quite different between the two machines, it’s not marginally better IMO, again benchmarks don’t always reflect real world usage.



Apple will likely drop the nTB, which is fine.

I just wanted a product which smashes the 2 year old lazy nTB that Apple released. Instead they created a lazy product which doesn’t bring justice to the 10 year anniversary of MacBook Air. I didn’t want old tech on it such as the screen or the chassis - which is a copy of the nTB with an added wedge. The machine is larger than other Window laptops which host 15W CPU’s and have really strong performance. If they wanted to go this route, they should have made the Air even smaller/thinner. They could have done it with more R&D but they decided not to.

Since they created a lazy product, pricing should have been $999 to reflect that.

Car analysis isn’t poor. The difference is a 2yr old car is sold as a 2yr old car. Not a new one!

Also I was comparing 2 different class of cars as you and others are comparing 2 different class of laptops.

I agree Apple could have done way more with this new MBA. But it is still a marked increase over the previous MBA (which is what is should be compared to)

It’s ok comparing the MBA to equivalent Windoze machines. Tech wise the MBA loses out quite a bit. But the drive performance and OS is it’s saving grace.

I know benchmarks aren’t something to rely on. But until this MBA has been out a while we won’t have any real world performance ideas. So it’s the only thing we can gauge it off.

Has wave 2 WiFi been confirmed? I’ve only seen it say ac 2x2 MIMO.

I didn’t mention the keyboard as the Gen 3 apparently still has the same issues if the thread in the MBP section is anything to go by.

Didn’t mention the TouchID as I overlooked it.

Agree the price is steep and shouldn’t be. But if they can sell the old air for the same price and up the new air cost... They are a business after all.

I too wish they had done more as I wanted to get the MBA. I am still on the fence and at the moment I am leaning toward getting one. But I may end up passing it to my wife who is currently using my old 2012 MBP. So for her the difference will be a fair bit.

 

[Dave245]

Well its pointless waiting now because it will be 10 months before another product will be announced. This is it for 2018.

If there were issues with the 3rd gen keyboard we would know about it by now, it seems like apple has fixed this issue and you either love it or hate it.

I have the gen 1 2015 macbook and i haven't had a single problem with it over the last 2 years, but I dont eat over it and keep it clean... but im not obsessive with cleaning it either. I know a lot of people dont treat their products the same way so mileage varies but I wouldn't have any issue buying another one as technically mine is the worst and its been fine.

TBH what you want to do these low end products arent really suitable for you anyway. You "CAN" do what you want to do but I dont think it will be a satisfactory experience considering the money. The 12" macbook can edit 4k video fine with final cut but the program has been designed to render previews in the background as soon as you start to render anything it absolutely falls flat on its face and takes forever.

Same with anything, it will work with lightroom too but importing and exporting is a futile experience.

TBH if you buy a macbook air with even measly specs 8gbs and 256gb its £1351 on perkbox, if you actually add specs that will be suitable for a 3-5 year period 16gb and 512gb ssd it jumps up to £1700.

Adding a 1.5tb drive puts it up to £2442...

The 2018 macbook pro 13 gets you a far better display being far brighter and colour accurate, you double the processing performance, far better integrated graphics, you get much faster ram and the weight difference is minimal.

Like you say the 2018 macbook pro 13 i5 quad 16gbs 512gb is £300 more than the macbook air with the same spec. Its a no brainer.

Think of the time youve waited... its £300... over a 5 year period this £2000 macbook pro will cost you £33 per month... just over a pound a day lol.

The longer you wait the older they get its a catch 22. Where do you draw the line? Being indecisive is just stupid with tech. Buy it, Enjoy it and be productive. Real life useage is completely different to these forums. The MBP gives you some room the macbook and macbook air dont.

The 13" macbook pro is the best device here for the work you want to do. It will drive a 5k monitor and outperforms 90% of all macs in a tiny package!

If you want to make more of it you could buy a EGPU and use your imac as a secondary display as it will run circles round that also.

TBH if you want to replace your laptop and iMac buy the new mac mini and use your iMac as a display... again the i7 512 mac mini is like £1344 and is one of the fastest machines you can buy and you can replace the ram yourself... add 32gbs ram at £266 you still under the £1700 for the macbook air.

The portable apple line up is confusing but there is certainly something for everyone here. I wish they would drop the old products but people will buy them and they will make money so... cant argue with their greedy logic.

Surface products look great but they are really unreliable and everyone I know who has had one has been disappointed and moved back. Specs are great in reality not so.

I'm not waiting any longer now! the end of this month and i will be buying, that's only so that i can go to the Apple store and see in person (i don't have one that's just a walk away so i will make a day of it with friends).

You actually make a lot of sense here, i have been looking the price difference and even with my discount it is only a £328 difference, as you say over a 5 year period it's really nothing, its not the money that has been the issue in all honesty it's the confusion of what to buy. I've seen the Macbook Pro in store and i do really like the look of it, even if i wasn't going to use the Touch Bar all that much.

I had a 2011 Macbook Pro that served me really well over the 7 years that i had it, if a new Mac could do that i don't mind the cost, hell i don't even mind paying the higher prices for the fact that i had ZERO issues in 7 years
I think over time i've become bogged down with reading and rereading what people have said online, the stories of the new keyboard are off putting, especially since I'm a writer and i rely on a keyboard on a daily basis.

If i were to pick up the Macbook Pro with Touch Bar and upgrade it to 16GB Ram, do you know how much faster it would be over the Macbook Air? is it substantial?

 

[0014]

I'm not waiting any longer now! the end of this month and i will be buying, that's only so that i can go to the Apple store and see in person (i don't have one that's just a walk away so i will make a day of it with friends).

You actually make a lot of sense here, i have been looking the price difference and even with my discount it is only a £328 difference, as you say over a 5 year period it's really nothing, its not the money that has been the issue in all honesty it's the confusion of what to buy. I've seen the Macbook Pro in store and i do really like the look of it, even if i wasn't going to use the Touch Bar all that much.

I had a 2011 Macbook Pro that served me really well over the 7 years that i had it, if a new Mac could do that i don't mind the cost, hell i don't even mind paying the higher prices for the fact that i had ZERO issues in 7 years
I think over time i've become bogged down with reading and rereading what people have said online, the stories of the new keyboard are off putting, especially since I'm a writer and i rely on a keyboard on a daily basis.

If i were to pick up the Macbook Pro with Touch Bar and upgrade it to 16GB Ram, do you know how much faster it would be over the Macbook Air? is it substantial?

Yes. It’s a Quad Core. So you’re looking at around 80% or more faster over the MBA.

But that’s not in day to day use. It will only be noticeable in demanding apps/editing. Day to day use it will just feel a bit slicker and things like safari scrolling etc will be smoother (assuming you have good internet).

 

[Dave245]

Yes. It’s a Quad Core processer. So you’re looking at around 80% or more faster over the MBA.

But that’s not in day to day use. It will only be noticeable in demanding apps/editing. Day to day use it will just feel a bit slicker and things like safari scrolling etc will be smoother (assuming you have good internet).

We have fibre internet so that shouldn't be an issue. The only demanding tasks that i do are Pixelmator Pro, iMovie (BUT i might upgrade to Final Cut Pro) and some light gaming such as Two Point Hospital (the new hospital game that came out a few months back), all of which work on my current 2012 iMac anyway.
I'm going on the logic that if they work on a much older 2012 iMac, they will also work on a Macbook Pro 13" from 2018, that's if my logic is correct? i could be completely wrong as i'm not very techie when it comes to things like processor or graphic specs.

 

[0014]

We have fibre internet so that shouldn't be an issue. The only demanding tasks that i do are Pixelmator Pro, iMovie (BUT i might upgrade to Final Cut Pro) and some light gaming such as Two Point Hospital (the new hospital game that came out a few months back), all of which work on my current 2012 iMac anyway.
I'm going on the logic that if they work on a much older 2012 iMac, they will also work on a Macbook Pro 13" from 2018, that's if my logic is correct? i could be completely wrong as i'm not very techie when it comes to things like processor or graphic specs.

The issue with the games will be the graphics. Your iMac will have dedicated graphics whereas the 13” has intel graphics which are......****. But if it’s not too taxing graphics wise then you’ll be fine.

The other stuff depends more on the processor so you will be fine.

 

[tomscott1988]

I'm not waiting any longer now! the end of this month and i will be buying, that's only so that i can go to the Apple store and see in person (i don't have one that's just a walk away so i will make a day of it with friends).

You actually make a lot of sense here, i have been looking the price difference and even with my discount it is only a £328 difference, as you say over a 5 year period it's really nothing, its not the money that has been the issue in all honesty it's the confusion of what to buy. I've seen the Macbook Pro in store and i do really like the look of it, even if i wasn't going to use the Touch Bar all that much.

I had a 2011 Macbook Pro that served me really well over the 7 years that i had it, if a new Mac could do that i don't mind the cost, hell i don't even mind paying the higher prices for the fact that i had ZERO issues in 7 years
I think over time i've become bogged down with reading and rereading what people have said online, the stories of the new keyboard are off putting, especially since I'm a writer and i rely on a keyboard on a daily basis.

If i were to pick up the Macbook Pro with Touch Bar and upgrade it to 16GB Ram, do you know how much faster it would be over the Macbook Air? is it substantial?

Forums can be polarising and you get the best and worst of people explaining their needs which can make you feel like your similar.

TBH the speed difference may be stark but with other things may not be as noticeable.

The biggest noticeable difference for me going from the 2013 MBA to the 2015 MB is that normal things that are super quick and I took for granted on the MBA were now super noticeable on the MB. Wake up for example, the macbook just wont wake up and it can take 10-15 seconds, when it finally wakes up it slams the CPU for 30 seconds making everything unusable. I dont know if this is due to the 5w CPU but no other apple product I have owned does this and I find it very frustrating. Feels like its in a coma.

When safari boots it can be completely unresponsive, youtube, facebook etc it can take 20 seconds to figure itself out. Once it does this it runs like a champ just seems to slam the cpu then gets through it. I am almost certain this is due to the processor but after playing with the 2018 Macbook pro it does none of these things and is pretty much instantaneous. Unfortunately web browsing has now become quite processor intensive, i would be really upset to find a £1300 laptop is laggy while browsing facebook etc.

My main application lightroom on the other hand used to be almost unusable on the 2015 macbook, with a few Mac OS updates and better metal support on adobe's end it runs extremely well. Considering it benches at 2500 single and 4400 multi, those scores place it somewhere between 2009-11 mac performance for a 2015 machine. Importing and exporting is a very long process but once it makes the 1:1 files it does very well in the develop mode and has very few UI slowdowns.

On the other hand my 2010 Mac Pro blitzes the import and export due to the pure power of the machine but the UI in the develop mode is very laggy at times and frustrating. That is due to efficiencies of newer processors ramping up single core quickly and efficiently that the 10 year old xeon just doesnt do as well. Yet in benchmarks it does 3500 single and 15000 multi so on paper should be better in all respects... but its not.

For example on paper the 2018 base 13 macbook pro benches 4500 and 16500 which is far faster than my mac pro and its footprint is minuscule in comparison. This is why they are so impressive.

Take benchmarks with a pinch of salt tho, it doesn't tell the whole story.

When you start being productive with software that isnt strictly apple developed is where I see the biggest differences. Adobe for example, the clock speed and the larger wattage CPU make a huge difference to perceived performance. Really what you want is for the UI to be flawless and the more powerful processors help in this regard. Otherwise its a poor experience and you dont want to do the work.

With having Mac Pros for the majority of my professional career I have been spoilt with almost 0 slow downs in UI and general operation. When you start to use ultra portables they dont have desktop class components and the wattage is so low that there are compromises.

This is what people dont seem to understand that your paying really for how the tech has been organised and implemented rather than on paper specs. You wont find this level from the competition which is why they are far cheaper. Although Apple tax is getting worse.

Generally apple do a really good job of masking the disadvantages with mac OS but time has moved on and they are supporting huge variances of performance which does effect the lower end products.

You could talk about future proofing but it doesn't really exist, what people need is room to grow rather than future proofing as tech becomes outdated. Just need to make sure you have enough spec to run everything you do now flawlessly if it doesn't its not worth buying as it will only get worse as time goes by. Programs inevitably become more complex and power hungry.

Whats really funny is that I used to take a bootable drive with me to the Apple store boot it up on all the machines I was interested in and try my programs with my files. This gave me an almost exact perceived performance. I did this because apple doesnt load their "creative options" with any software but apple software and are unwilling to install Adobe CC. At this point apples dedicated program list is a pretty poor. If I was then happy with it then I would buy.

You cant do that anymore, with the T2 chip and the fact store models apparently dont run a proper OS but a test system. When I was in their last week I was in to buy an iMac pro, I couldn't test it and they were unwilling to put in the store password to boot my drive although it was a brand new installation because of GDPR.

Their answer was for me to buy the product, if im not happy then return it.

I said that maybe fine for a portable... but the iMac pro is massive, heavy and such a waste of time and effort and really not very environmentally friendly. Waste all round. Small issue that there is no chance im paying £5k for a computer to test it. You should be able to do this in store. Its pathetic.

 

[Dave245]

The issue with the games will be the graphics. Your iMac will have dedicated graphics whereas the 13” has intel graphics which are......****. But if it’s not too taxing graphics wise then you’ll be fine.

The other stuff depends more on the processor so you will be fine.

The highest spec game has a recommendation of, AMD Radeon Pro 570 for Two Point Hospital.

Other than that I wouldn’t tax the machine too much, editing video is a hobby and mostly in HD, photo editing is also more of a hobby with photos from my iPhone X, editing in Pixelmator Pro. The only Pro work I do is for my career and that’s writing, not something that will tax any machine (even with the tabs I have open for research in Safari).

 

[DanUC6]

Dim is the right word. I could barely see the screen at half brightness. At full brightness it left a lot to be desired. I would call that a dim screen. Please don’t tell fellow members what they can or can’t say.

Half-Brightness on your post...I can see perfectly fine.

 

[Geert76]

after 24 hours I am already used to the somewhat dimmer display of the Air (compared to a Pro).

And this Macbook Air is really zippy and speedy... I like it a lot!

 

[raqball]

Half-Brightness on your post...I can see perfectly fine.

The machine is fine indoors... Outdoors in direct sunlight is going to be an issue for many. If you don't use yours that way then cool but I do and I've had computers with similar nits and they are a no go...

I have no idea why Apple decided to go with this. 400 would have been better but why not keep it at Pro level? Users are fully capable of managing their own battery and most understand cranking up the brightness will diminish battery life.....

 

[Dave245]

Forums can be polarising and you get the best and worst of people explaining their needs which can make you feel like your similar.

TBH the speed difference may be stark but with other things may not be as noticeable.

The biggest noticeable difference for me going from the 2013 MBA to the 2015 MB is that normal things that are super quick and I took for granted on the MBA were now super noticeable on the MB. Wake up for example, the macbook just wont wake up and it can take 10-15 seconds, when it finally wakes up it slams the CPU for 30 seconds making everything unusable. I dont know if this is due to the 5w CPU but no other apple product I have owned does this and I find it very frustrating. Feels like its in a coma.

When safari boots it can be completely unresponsive, youtube, facebook etc it can take 20 seconds to figure itself out. Once it does this it runs like a champ just seems to slam the cpu then gets through it. I am almost certain this is due to the processor but after playing with the 2018 Macbook pro it does none of these things and is pretty much instantaneous. Unfortunately web browsing has now become quite processor intensive, i would be really upset to find a £1300 laptop is laggy while browsing facebook etc.

My main application lightroom on the other hand used to be almost unusable on the 2015 macbook, with a few Mac OS updates and better metal support on adobe's end it runs extremely well. Considering it benches at 2500 single and 4400 multi, those scores place it somewhere between 2009-11 mac performance for a 2015 machine. Importing and exporting is a very long process but once it makes the 1:1 files it does very well in the develop mode and has very few UI slowdowns.

On the other hand my 2010 Mac Pro blitzes the import and export due to the pure power of the machine but the UI in the develop mode is very laggy at times and frustrating. That is due to efficiencies of newer processors ramping up single core quickly and efficiently that the 10 year old xeon just doesnt do as well. Yet in benchmarks it does 3500 single and 15000 multi so on paper should be better in all respects... but its not.

For example on paper the 2018 base 13 macbook pro benches 4500 and 16500 which is far faster than my mac pro and its footprint is minuscule in comparison. This is why they are so impressive.

Take benchmarks with a pinch of salt tho, it doesn't tell the whole story.

When you start being productive with software that isnt strictly apple developed is where I see the biggest differences. Adobe for example, the clock speed and the larger wattage CPU make a huge difference to perceived performance. Really what you want is for the UI to be flawless and the more powerful processors help in this regard. Otherwise its a poor experience and you dont want to do the work.

With having Mac Pros for the majority of my professional career I have been spoilt with almost 0 slow downs in UI and general operation. When you start to use ultra portables they dont have desktop class components and the wattage is so low that there are compromises.

This is what people dont seem to understand that your paying really for how the tech has been organised and implemented rather than on paper specs. You wont find this level from the competition which is why they are far cheaper. Although Apple tax is getting worse.

Generally apple do a really good job of masking the disadvantages with mac OS but time has moved on and they are supporting huge variances of performance which does effect the lower end products.

You could talk about future proofing but it doesn't really exist, what people need is room to grow rather than future proofing as tech becomes outdated. Just need to make sure you have enough spec to run everything you do now flawlessly if it doesn't its not worth buying as it will only get worse as time goes by. Programs inevitably become more complex and power hungry.

Whats really funny is that I used to take a bootable drive with me to the Apple store boot it up on all the machines I was interested in and try my programs with my files. This gave me an almost exact perceived performance. I did this because apple doesnt load their "creative options" with any software but apple software and are unwilling to install Adobe CC. At this point apples dedicated program list is a pretty poor. If I was then happy with it then I would buy.

You cant do that anymore, with the T2 chip and the fact store models apparently dont run a proper OS but a test system. When I was in their last week I was in to buy an iMac pro, I couldn't test it and they were unwilling to put in the store password to boot my drive although it was a brand new installation because of GDPR.

Their answer was for me to buy the product, if im not happy then return it.

I said that maybe fine for a portable... but the iMac pro is massive, heavy and such a waste of time and effort and really not very environmentally friendly. Waste all round. Small issue that there is no chance im paying £5k for a computer to test it. You should be able to do this in store. Its pathetic.

Extra wiggle room is nice, it’s why I buy 16GB Ram over just the 8GB, that’s what I did with my 2012 iMac it has 16GB Ram and doesn’t have any issues (I don’t know if that’s the reason or not). Also even tho my video and photo editing are only hobbies at the moment, they could also get more powerful, for example I’m using my iPhone X to take pictures when there is a chance that in the future I could buy a DSLR camera, which I’m assuming would increase the size of the photos and therefore the power needed to edit them? I really don’t know, as I mentioned in a previous post I’m really not that techie at all.

One of the areas that I love Apple for is the security, it seems they actually care and put deep thinking into it. The T2 chip for example seems to be a great way of protecting the MacBook Pro and new MacBook Air, I read an article online that when you close the lid on both of those machines it disables the microphone so that no one can listen in on you, that is pretty cool, even if the odds of that happening are very low. Apple frustrate me in some areas but blow me away in others (there A12 chip is just amazing work, security is brilliant and MacOS is my favourite OS! Mojave is great).

 

[raqball]

after 24 hours I am already used to the somewhat dimmer display of the Air (compared to a Pro).

And this Macbook Air is really zippy and speedy... I like it a lot!

Agree.. I am getting use to it as well. Sadly, I won't know how bad it is outdoors until next summer... Yes, I am digging it too and hooray for touchID without that pathetic Touch Bar!

 

[DanUC6]

The screen looks like trash compared to even the 12” side by side. Not only the brightness but the colour profile is off or something.

Go to apple.com and scroll through and you can tell the Air looks washed out.

I wanted to replace my 2015 MacBook with this but I won’t go backward in screen quality compared to what I already have.

Was happy to accept the processor since it’s essentially a 13” Macbook but they can’t even get the screen right. The Pro screen is on another level past this

Trash..haha.

 

[0014]

Agree.. I am getting use to it as well. Sadly, I won't know how bad it is outdoors until next summer... Yes, I am digging it too and hooray for touchID without that pathetic Touch Bar!

Has it settled down now as wasn’t it sluggish for you at first? Is the boot still slow?

 

[blairh]

Half-Brightness on your post...I can see perfectly fine.

Congrats. I stand by my statement as that's what I viewed yesterday. Many reviews also back up my claims.

 

[raqball]

Has it settled down now as wasn’t it sluggish for you at first? Is the boot still slow?

It was exchanged yesterday and the new machine is much better... The display on the new one is also slightly brighter... Login now at boot about 30 seconds!

 

[Geert76]

and hooray for touchID without that pathetic Touch Bar!

this!!

I hated the TouchBar with a passion. Can't believe Apple thought that would improve your workflow/productivity.
Heck, it even did the opposite with my 2017 MacBook Pro TB

TouchID on this new Air is superb and instantly unlocking my Macbook.
Even much, much better and more accurate than TouchID on my iPhone 8 I had a year ago

 

[EugW]

Half-Brightness on your post...I can see perfectly fine.

That of course is a meaningless post unless you're in a very brightly lit room.

Just about any laptop including the cheapest no-name brand Windows ones will be bright enough indoors for an average lit room.

 

[raqball]

I hated the TouchBar with a passion. Can't believe Apple thought that would improve your workflow/productivity.
Heck, it even did the opposite with my 2017 MacBook Pro TB

TouchID on this new Air is superb and instantly unlocking my Macbook.
Even much, much better and more accurate than TouchID on my iPhone 8 I had a year ago

Ditto!

I have no idea why Apple thought it was a good idea and even less of an idea on why they've chosen to stick with that garbage.. Sure maybe offer it as a custom order but............

Really diggin touchID and used Apple Pay on the machine yesterday!

 

[EugW]

Forums can be polarising and you get the best and worst of people explaining their needs which can make you feel like your similar.

TBH the speed difference may be stark but with other things may not be as noticeable.

The biggest noticeable difference for me going from the 2013 MBA to the 2015 MB is that normal things that are super quick and I took for granted on the MBA were now super noticeable on the MB. Wake up for example, the macbook just wont wake up and it can take 10-15 seconds, when it finally wakes up it slams the CPU for 30 seconds making everything unusable. I dont know if this is due to the 5w CPU but no other apple product I have owned does this and I find it very frustrating. Feels like its in a coma.

When safari boots it can be completely unresponsive, youtube, facebook etc it can take 20 seconds to figure itself out. Once it does this it runs like a champ just seems to slam the cpu then gets through it. I am almost certain this is due to the processor but after playing with the 2018 Macbook pro it does none of these things and is pretty much instantaneous. Unfortunately web browsing has now become quite processor intensive, i would be really upset to find a £1300 laptop is laggy while browsing facebook etc.

I had been pining for YEARS for a 12" MacBook or 12" MacBook Pro. And then in 2015 Apple released one. Unfortunately, not only did I hate the keyboard, I found the unit to be quite slow. It was slow enough that even just surfing was affected, and this was back in 2015. So I held off. And then tried again in 2016, but unfortunately the keyboard was still problematic in 2016.

In contrast, the 2017 is a vast improvement in perceived performance over the 2015, with surfing and what not being way more responsive than the 2015 model. The 2017 feels like a modern machine. Furthermore, the keyboard is a huge improvement over the 2015. In addition, the 2017 includes full 10-bit 4K hardware HEVC video decode, so it doesn't break a sweat at 25% CPU usage decoding videos that a 2015 Core i7 iMac can't decode cleanly at 100% CPU usage.

For example, the entry level 2015 MacBook scores 211 in Cinebench, compared to 265 for the entry level 2017 MacBook, an improvement of 26% for the 2017 model. Also, in Geekbench, which essentially is a measurement of short term Turbo Boost and which aligns well with surfing experience much of the time, the comparative numbers are 4427 vs 6654, a difference of a whopping 50%! (The scores are based on thousands of test scores posted at their website, but individual machines that are optimized for the test with all extra services killed off will score maybe 5-10% higher.)

Performance-wise, the 2018 MacBook Air should be improved over my 2017 Core m3 MacBook. It will suck for hardcore multimedia applications, but it will be fine for a lot of non-Pro usage, and is light years ahead of your 2015 MacBook. IMO your 2015 MacBook was crippled at launch. Things changed drastically by 2017.

That said, for some things like HD video playback, on my 24 GB 2017 iMac Core i5, when I maximize to full screen everything is perfect. In the same software on the 16 GB 2017 Core m3 MacBook, I sometimes get a split second stutter in the video (which does not affect on the audio). I mean it's no big deal, but when you're used to perfect, an occasional slight stutter when changing window modes still is noticeable. I wonder if it's related to the GPU though. I'm comparing the iMac's Radeon Pro 575 vs a low clocked Intel HD 615.

As for stuff like wake up: No, it isn't the most speedy in the world, but I'd be interested to know more about what you describe. AFAIK, regular sleep only lasts for three hours, and then Apple pages out to disk for Standby Mode. Could this be related to reloading stuff? I will also note that current MacBooks have faster SSDs than the 2015 models.

I have no idea why Apple thought it was a good idea and even less of an idea on why they've chosen to stick with that garbage.. Sure maybe offer it as a custom order but............

Really diggin touchID and used Apple Pay on the machine yesterday!

The Final Cut people really seem to love it. I personally really dislike it though.

 

[Ma2k5]

A very balanced review:

Thoughts? I guess it kind of sums up my feeling, although I think he could have added that

1) MBA has TB3, 12” MacBook does not
2) Butterfly gen 3 can still be full of issues
3) Improved/Integrated WiFi

He did mention, and put side by side, the 12” and MBA and the MBA did appear very noticeably dimmer. I would be okay for it to be dimmer than the Pro but not so okay with it being dimmer than the 12” MacBook.

Battery life is also short (8.5 hours - so not horrendous I guess?). Some other machines he was getting 10+ hours easily.

I guess I’m somewhat disappointed this laptop didn’t get at least 12 hours considering the CPU and dim screen, the XPS has managed to get 9 hours on a bright 4K screen plus 15W CPU on *gasp* Windows OS! (And 13+ on its 1080 option).

 

[EugW]

The effect of the fan:

Compare that to the 12” MacBook here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...uns-of-cinebench.2073415/page-2#post-25271927

—-

Yep, the MBA is dim:

12” on left, MBA on right.

A very balanced review:

Thoughts? I guess it kind of sums up my feeling, although I think he could have added that

1) MBA has TB3, 12” MacBook does not
2) Butterfly gen 3 can still be full of issues
3) Improved/Integrated WiFi

He did mention, and put side by side, the 12” and MBA and the MBA did appear very noticeably dimmer. I would be okay for it to be dimmer than the Pro but not so okay with it being dimmer than the 12” MacBook.

Battery life is also short (8.5 hours - so not horrendous I guess?). Some other machines he was getting 10+ hours easily.

I guess I’m somewhat disappointed this laptop didn’t get at least 12 hours considering the CPU and dim screen, the XPS has managed to get 9 hours on a bright 4K screen plus 15W CPU on *gasp* Windows OS! (And 13+ on its 1080 option).