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I have been very happy with my 2017 MacBook with 16 GB RAM and i7; I don't put any unduly heavy loads on the cpu, since I have another machine for the "heavy lifting," so to speak. The 16 GB makes a noticeable difference and I am glad that I decided to update from my 2016 MacBook. I use my rMB for everyday stuff and she's a joy!
 
As I suspected, the table material makes a difference. The first time I ran the test on my 2017 MacBook Core m3, I ran it on a granite counter, and turned off WiFi and Bluetooth. I just ran it again, but this time ran it on a wood table (which would act more as an insulator, keeping the heat in), and kept on WiFi and Bluetooth.

First off, the Cinebench R15 test on the wood table followed a curve which more or less flattened out around the 240 point range after 20ish runs. No hard performance drop-offs either.

MacBook2017-CinebenchR15-Onlym3wood.png


As expected, the performance curve of the MacBook m3 on wood was shifted a bit lower than the performance curve of the MacBook m3 on granite (although the difference after 10 runs was less than 3%). Furthermore, the performance curve of my MacBook m3 on wood more closely followed the performance curve of Brookzy's MacBook i5.

MacBook2017-CinebenchR15-m3-wood.png


Above are the first 10 runs. Below is the raw data for all my 22 runs.

265
261
257
254
252
250
248
248
247
246
245
244
244
242
242
242
241
242
240
241
240
240
 
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I assume it would get less hot because their is nothing to insulate heat underneath the processor?
I wouldn't necessarily make that assumption since the lid is closed, so that would retain heat. OTOH, the screen backlight would be off so that could reduce heat. Mind you, the heat from the screen when the lid is open probably doesn't affect the CPU much, since it's in a different, separate compartment.
 
I wouldn't necessarily make that assumption since the lid is closed, so that would retain heat. OTOH, the screen backlight would be off so that would reduce heat.

It's usually the base of the laptop that gets the hottest?

Only one way to find out I guess :)

It would be interesting to see how it compares to your other results
 
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While it is good to standardise the heat sink factor for comparison test purposes, I don't see it as that important.

The CPU performance has dropped less than 10% over a sustained high use period.

10% CPU difference is not subjectively detectable in normal use.
 
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While it is good to standardise the heat sync factor for comparison test purposes, I don't see it as that important.

The CPU performance has dropped less than 10% over a sustained high use period.

10% CPU difference is not subjectively detectable in normal use.
I agree. It was just nice to confirm that the i5 wasn't behaving abnormally. The main reason my initial m3 had it doing better over time than the i5 was because I was using it on a stone countertop. Once I switched to wood, the m3 and i5 behaved similarly. However, the bigger point was that it appears there is no real point in getting the i5 (unless you need more storage), or the i7 for that matter... at least according to this test.

Over 10 runs, the fastest speed the i7 achieves is 275 (near the beginning of the 10 runs), and the slowest speed the m3 achieves is 246 (at the end of the 10 runs). The difference there is 29, which is just 11% slower than 275.

Furthermore, the biggest difference in this test on the same run between the i7 and the m3 is 268-250=18, or all of just 7%. As you said, subjectively there should be no discernable difference.

That said, for very bursty stuff, the i7 may feel a bit faster. According to Geekbench 4, it can achieve approximately 8450 multi-core, whereas the m3 achieves about 7050. That's a 17-20% difference. There is still no point for the i5 though, since it only achieves about 7480, which is only 6% difference vs the m3.

BTW, here again are Notebookcheck's 2016 Cinebench numbers:

2016 m3: 218 --> 185 (-15.1%)
2016 m5: 260 --> 229 (-11.9%)
2016 m7: 251 --> 207 (-17.5%)

Versus my m3 over the same 22 runs:

2017 m3: 265 --> 240 (-9.6%)
 
A little off topic but I thought it was an interesting comparison...

I'm getting a brand new desktop computer at my workplace next week. My workplace has 10000 people working here, and this is what they deploy across the entire organization: It seems they spec the new computers with a Core i3-3250 3.5 GHz dual-core with HyperThreading (4 threads). Well, it turns out this 55 Watt desktop CPU is still slower than the 2017 Core m3-7Y32 we have in our MacBooks in Geekbench 4. The Core i3 gets around 6750 in Geekbench 4 vs >7000 for the Core m3.

Truthfully, I'm not that concerned about the CPU speed, as the main bottleneck I'm stuck with is Windows 7 32-bit, due to software incompatibilities with the 64-bit version of Windows. So, out of the 4 GB RAM installed, it will likely have 3.42 GB available. Plus, it's got a spinning hard disk. The sad part is that it's still an improvement over what I'm using right now.

Meanwhile, my Core m3 MacBook has 16 GB RAM (minus whatever comparatively small amount is used by the GPU), plus PCIe SSD. No, this MacBook isn't a barn burner in terms of speed, but it's still faster than most of the business computers deployed across my 10000 worker strong workplace.
 
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This confirms what I suspected, the MB is in dire need of active cooling.

Also, it would be interesting to run these same benchmarks with a more direct cooling, perhaps a powerful fan under the laptop or some kind of cold plate making direct contact to the bottom, maybe a watercooling cpu block attached to the hottest spot under.
 
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This confirms what I suspected, the MB is in dire need of active cooling.

Also, it would be interesting to run these same benchmarks with a more direct cooling, perhaps a powerful fan under the laptop or some kind of cold plate making direct contact to the bottom, maybe a watercooling cpu block attached to the hottest spot under.

When I get my i7 later this week I’ll throw my 12” yeti ice block under it and do some tests.

It’s honestly the first thing I thought of doing after reading this thread and these tests.

Stupid prolly, but why not?
 
When I get my i7 later this week I’ll throw my 12” yeti ice block under it and do some tests.

It’s honestly the first thing I thought of doing after reading this thread and these tests.

Stupid prolly, but why not?
Awesome, will be waiting!
 
This confirms what I suspected, the MB is in dire need of active cooling.

Apple already make that computer...it is called the 13" MacBook Pro. You are missing the point of the ultraportable and silent MacBook.

Also, it would be interesting to run these same benchmarks with a more direct cooling, perhaps a powerful fan under the laptop or some kind of cold plate making direct contact to the bottom, maybe a watercooling cpu block attached to the hottest spot under.

Yes interesting, but the performance degrades less than 10% after 30 mins of high load....barely detectable in ordinary use.
[doublepost=1512552093][/doublepost]
When I get my i7 later this week I’ll throw my 12” yeti ice block under it and do some tests.

It’s honestly the first thing I thought of doing after reading this thread and these tests.

Stupid prolly, but why not?

Yes it will be interesting but if you think you need to do this to get back some of the barely noticeable 10% throttling, you are probably buying the wrong Mac. The MacBook is all about portability....at a price.
 
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Apple already make that computer...it is called the 13" MacBook Pro. You are missing the point of the ultraportable and silent MacBook.



Yes interesting, but the performance degrades less than 10% after 30 mins of high load....barely detectable in ordinary use.
[doublepost=1512552093][/doublepost]

Yes it will be interesting but if you think you need to do this to get back some of the barely noticeable 10% throttling, you are probably buying the wrong Mac. The MacBook is all about portability....at a price.

I agree... which is why I bought it over the MBP.

Doesn’t stop me from being curious and wanting to mess about a bit.

I’m not going to take an ice block on the plane with me, which is 80% of the reason why I bought this. I fly 150k-200k a year and I’m sick of not fitting my laptop in the seat back pocket. Even in first class. Delta changed most of the seat covers. I also have a Dell XPS 15 for more power hungry tasks and the MacBook seemed like the perfect purchase.

Time will tell.
 
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One thing I noticed is the MacBook can fit vertically under the seat on the airplane. Well, at least in premium economy class on Air Canada. (I didn't try regular economy class.)

And it fits a heluvalot better on the fold down meal tray than my 13" MacBook Pro ever did.

Performance for business applications is good. The 2015 MacBook Core m3 in my very limited testing seemed OK but slightly sluggish feeling, but that sluggishness disappeared with the 2017. This makes sense from the benchmarks, given that the 2015 m3 gets about 209 in Cinebench R15, whereas the 2017 m3 gets 264. That's over a 25% improvement. If you look at Geekbench 4, the comparative scores are around 4900 vs 7050, so that's well over a 40% improvement! Note that I have been able to use a much slower old MacBook Pro just fine for business apps, but that machine definitely felt quite sluggish. The 2015 m3 would have been a big improvement, but the 2017 is an even bigger improvement.

Plus the 2017's keyboard is much better.

I really hate the MacBook's iSight camera quality in a dark hotel room. It's just bad. However, it turns out it was not a big deal for me, because for FaceTime I preferred to use my iPhone 7 Plus anyway, as it's much easier to walk around the room with the phone.
 
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Apple already make that computer...it is called the 13" MacBook Pro. You are missing the point of the ultraportable and silent MacBook.

I get the silent and ultraportable, but does not mean that is ok to have a laptop that is constantly running at almost 100C all the time, just because is not properly cooled.

Yes interesting, but the performance degrades less than 10% after 30 mins of high load....barely detectable in ordinary use.

I had an i5 MB and the throttling made the system unbearably slow to use, granted, the operation that i was doing was creating a W7 VM and perhaps is too much for this laptop, but I'm sure that the degradation was more than 10%.

Yes it will be interesting but if you think you need to do this to get back some of the barely noticeable 10% throttling, you are probably buying the wrong Mac. The MacBook is all about portability....at a price.

Well, these type of test help us the customers realize that is not worth getting the i5 or i7 since the lack of proper cooling is holding these CPU's back.

I like the note on the first post, which states that under many circumstances, typical benchmarks are useless compared to real life usage, which as I mentioned, it ended affecting the usability of the machine.
 
I get the silent and ultraportable, but does not mean that is ok to have a laptop that is constantly running at almost 100C all the time, just because is not properly cooled.
These machines run relatively cool actually, unless you are maxing out the CPU with something really taxing like video encoding or whatever.

When I'm on the plane running my excel sheets and building my PowerPoint presentations, these machines are barely warm. 1080p h.264 video playback is also not a problem, since it's hardware decoded. Machine gets a bit warm, but that's it, as the CPU isn't working hard at all. Even playing back HEVC 4K video isn't a big problem, as it it uses under 25% CPU.
 
I had an i5 MB and the throttling made the system unbearably slow to use, granted, the operation that i was doing was creating a W7 VM and perhaps is too much for this laptop, but I'm sure that the degradation was more than 10%.

I have installed and used Win10 in Bootcamp and VMs on my 2016 M5 without noticing unbearable slowness.


Well, these type of test help us the customers realize that is not worth getting the i5 or i7 since the lack of proper cooling is holding these CPU's back.

The M3, i5 and i7 are all low powered mobile processors designed to be used without cooling. The i5 and i7 are not throttled back versions of the high power i5 and i7 in cooled Macs, so they are not being held back by lack of cooling. This is a bit of (IMHO) naughty naming by Apple/Intel.

I like the note on the first post, which states that under many circumstances, typical benchmarks are useless compared to real life usage, which as I mentioned, it ended affecting the usability of the machine.

Agreed, benchmarking is not real life usage, but it's about the only way to have any discussion.
 
If I planned on running Win 7/10 VMs on a regular basis, I would probably not be happy with an 8 GB Mac.

8 GB is the sweet spot for light to moderate business use without a VM. With heavier use and/or with a VM, IMO 16 GB is recommended.
 
I am loving the 16 GB on my MacBook 2017! I definitely notice a difference between what I experienced with the 2016 MB with 8 GB and what I have now..... even though I don't do a lot of stuff which potentially could tax the machine. The upgrade to the 2017 with 16 GB RAM was well worth it for me.
 
Any news/speculation on when Coffee Lake refresh might be happening?

I have to get a rMBP for work before Q1, but it looks like Coffee Lake won't happen before then.
 
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