MacBook Air: 8G or 16GM Memory?

[Cosmo M3]

Unused RAM is wasted RAM... I doubt my use, which is as a home user who occasionally will edit video and photos, would ever get anywhere close to needing 16GB...

Also, someone previously claimed MacOS would use up almost 4GB just at boot... Here is mine after a fresh reboot.,

[/QUOTE]

I think the struggle between 8GB and 16GB is overblown for most casual users.

 

[raqball]

I think the struggle between 8GB and 16GB is overblown for most casual users.

Agree.... My remarks were based on the debate here about 8 or 16 on a machine that intended for home users and students.. If someone truly needs more then this is probably not the right machine for them to pick...

I like it so far... The dim screen is growing on me but I'll give it the full 2 weeks to decide...

 

[Falcon80]

Agree.... My remarks were based on the debate here about 8 or 16 on a machine that intended for home users and students.. If someone truly needs more then this is probably not the right machine for them to pick...

I like it so far... The dim screen is growing on me but I'll give it the full 2 weeks to decide...

You mentioned earlier that the performance is sluggish. Any improvements now?

 

[EugW]

Why are people so concerned about future proofing their laptop? Most dont even keep it more than 3 years.

Besides, if macos runs fine on a basic 2011 mba with 4gb of ram why does a 2018 mba with double the ram needs to re-double?

how much future proofing do you need really?

macOS High Sierra runs fine on a 4 GB 2011 MBP if you don't do anything with it. However, even with light usage you will sometimes get the spinning beachball of death. OTOH, if you upgrade that thing to 8 GB, it is much smoother.

How do I know?

I currently have a 16 GB MacBook 2017, an 8 GB MacBook Pro 2009 (upgraded from 4, after having 2 GB previously), and an 8 GB MacBook 2008 (upgraded from 4, after having 2 GB previously). In fact, I ran the 8 GB MacBook Pro 2009 beside the 4 GB MacBook 2008 for several months before finally caving and upgrading the MacBook 2008 to 8 GB. While the MacBook 2008 was only a kitchen surfing and recipe machine, it would still get the occasional beachballs, and those were just annoying to someone used to not seeing them on other machines.

IMO, 2 GB is nearly unusable, and 4 GB is really only really light usage. IMO 8 GB should be the minimum for most users for a new machine, and 16 for very heavy multitaskers, especially if there is more than one user. (If my wife logs in, she never logs out. I figure it's about 2 GB per extra user.)

Actually for me, the sweet spot on a laptop would be 12 GB I think (baking in the fact that I keep my laptops 5+ years) but that option doesn't exist. For my iMac I went with 24 GB just because it's user upgradable and the extra 16 GB of 3rd party ram is uber cheap, although in all honestly, 16 would likely have been OK.

---

BTW, while not everyone needs 16 GB, the argument that it's stupid to pair 16 GB with a Y series processor is... well... stupid. As has been mentioned, for many people the CPU power of Y series machines is sufficient for most usage now. What trips people up are two things: 1) Lack of SSD, and 2) Lack of RAM.

On my Macs, much of what I do is business type applications, which can often take up a fair bit of RAM, but which don't actually stress the CPU that much.

tl;dr:

With a current version of macOS, 2 GB is horrible, 4 GB is OK for light usage but even for light usage 8 GB is noticeably better. Most may not need 16 GB, but many heavy multitaskers do.

For me, I think 12 GB on a laptop and 16 GB on a desktop would be perfect, but I went with 16 on the laptop (since 12 GB wasn't an option) and 24 GB on the desktop (because extra RAM was cheap as borscht).

 

[bambooshots]

I use a 2016 MacBook for student purposes.

I keep a lot of Chrome tabs open and I, personally, wish I had 16GB.

Been trying to convince myself to get a 2017 MacBook with 16GB or the new Air or maybe even at 13" MBP.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

macOS High Sierra runs fine on a 4 GB 2011 MBP if you don't do anything with it. However, even with light usage you will sometimes get the spinning beachball of death. OTOH, if you upgrade that thing to 8 GB, it is much smoother.

How do I know?

I currently have a 16 GB MacBook 2017, an 8 GB MacBook Pro 2009 (upgraded from 4, after having 2 GB previously), and an 8 GB MacBook 2008 (upgraded from 4, after having 2 GB previously). In fact, I ran the 8 GB MacBook Pro 2009 beside the 4 GB MacBook 2008 for several months before finally caving and upgrading the MacBook 2008 to 8 GB. While the MacBook 2008 was only a kitchen surfing and recipe machine, it would still get the occasional beachballs, and those were just annoying to someone used to not seeing them on other machines.

IMO, 2 GB is nearly unusable, and 4 GB is really only really light usage. IMO 8 GB should be the minimum for most users for a new machine, and 16 for very heavy multitaskers, especially if there is more than one user. (If my wife logs in, she never logs out. I figure it's about 2 GB per extra user.)

Actually for me, the sweet spot on a laptop would be 12 GB I think (baking in the fact that I keep my laptops 5+ years) but that option doesn't exist. For my iMac I went with 24 GB just because it's user upgradable and the extra 16 GB of 3rd party ram is uber cheap, although in all honestly, 16 would likely have been OK.

---

BTW, while not everyone needs 16 GB, the argument that it's stupid to pair 16 GB with a Y series processor is... well... stupid. As has been mentioned, for many people the CPU power of Y series machines is sufficient for most usage now. What trips people up are two things: 1) Lack of SSD, and 2) Lack of RAM.

On my Macs, much of what I do is business type applications, which can often take up a fair bit of RAM, but which don't actually stress the CPU that much.

tl;dr:

With a current version of macOS, 2 GB is horrible, 4 GB is OK for light usage but even for light usage 8 GB is noticeably better. Most may not need 16 GB, but many heavy multitaskers do.

For me, I think 12 GB on a laptop and 16 GB on a desktop would be perfect, but I went with 16 on the laptop (since 12 GB wasn't an option) and 24 GB on the desktop (because extra RAM was cheap as borscht).

I only scanned here but you seem to be comparing very different machines and focusing on a single metric - RAM. An older machine with 8GB of RAM will not be anywhere near the same as a modern day one with 8GB of RAM. There are so many other advances such as CPU, SSD speed etc. that make up for it. RAM is just one of many elements of a computer, and as other elements of the computer get faster, the need for RAM decreases.

Again, get what you want, but you need to really compare two equal machines with different RAM in order to gather a better perspective - I would always recommend upgrading the RAM in an older machine as often it's the cheapest way of gaining a performance boost, but on a modern machine I would worry that the overall system would be replaced long before you'd hit any RAM performance ceiling.

 

[617660]

macOS High Sierra runs fine on a 4 GB 2011 MBP if you don't do anything with it. However, even with light usage you will sometimes get the spinning beachball of death. OTOH, if you upgrade that thing to 8 GB, it is much smoother.

How do I know?

I currently have a 16 GB MacBook 2017, an 8 GB MacBook Pro 2009 (upgraded from 4, after having 2 GB previously), and an 8 GB MacBook 2008 (upgraded from 4, after having 2 GB previously). In fact, I ran the 8 GB MacBook Pro 2009 beside the 4 GB MacBook 2008 for several months before finally caving and upgrading the MacBook 2008 to 8 GB. While the MacBook 2008 was only a kitchen surfing and recipe machine, it would still get the occasional beachballs, and those were just annoying to someone used to not seeing them on other machines.

IMO, 2 GB is nearly unusable, and 4 GB is really only really light usage. IMO 8 GB should be the minimum for most users for a new machine, and 16 for very heavy multitaskers, especially if there is more than one user. (If my wife logs in, she never logs out. I figure it's about 2 GB per extra user.)

Actually for me, the sweet spot on a laptop would be 12 GB I think (baking in the fact that I keep my laptops 5+ years) but that option doesn't exist. For my iMac I went with 24 GB just because it's user upgradable and the extra 16 GB of 3rd party ram is uber cheap, although in all honestly, 16 would likely have been OK.

---

BTW, while not everyone needs 16 GB, the argument that it's stupid to pair 16 GB with a Y series processor is... well... stupid. As has been mentioned, for many people the CPU power of Y series machines is sufficient for most usage now. What trips people up are two things: 1) Lack of SSD, and 2) Lack of RAM.

On my Macs, much of what I do is business type applications, which can often take up a fair bit of RAM, but which don't actually stress the CPU that much.

tl;dr:

With a current version of macOS, 2 GB is horrible, 4 GB is OK for light usage but even for light usage 8 GB is noticeably better. Most may not need 16 GB, but many heavy multitaskers do.

For me, I think 12 GB on a laptop and 16 GB on a desktop would be perfect, but I went with 16 on the laptop (since 12 GB wasn't an option) and 24 GB on the desktop (because extra RAM was cheap as borscht).

I am not exactly a light user and a 2011 MBA with 4GB works just fine for me. I run virtual machine for SAS University, I edit movie via iMovie app, I watch 1080p video like no others. Internet browsing has been a breeze too. I mean I would have a hard time justifying a 2011 MBA with 8GB let alone a 2018 MBA with 16GB.

Clean install is the key. Before I did that, Mountain Lion brought my machine to a crawl.

 

[codo]

tl;dr If you want to keep your machine for the long haul - get 16 GB. RAM is not user serviceable anymore, so you have to think 5 years down the road... today!

I am typing this post on a MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2009) which I bought 9 years ago. It has served me so well... It was my primary machine until circa 2013. But back then in addition to everyday tasks (browsing, music, watching YouTube, office apps etc) I did a some video editing on a freelance basis. Today, this machine is my 'home' machine - I use it for non-work emails, browse the web, control my Sonos devices.. etc.

This machine has served me very, very well! Why has it lasted so long? Well I believe it was because I was able to double the amount of RAM in the machine, extending its life by many years.

In 2009, this machine came loaded with 4GB of DDR3. It was absolutely fine, at the time. However, as the years ticked by, even as the demands placed on the machine were considerably less taxing, after installing either Mountain Lion or Mavericks, I really started to become frustrated with everyday tasks. The beachball was everywhere! Well duh.. it's an old machine?

Well, in fact it was a simple case of needing more RAM. 4 GB was fine in 2009 - it wasn't in 2014! Luckily RAM was still user serviceable in this machine, so I got my credit card out and ordered 2 x 4GB from the good people at Crucial. BAM! It was like having a new machine with 8GB inside. Everything remains silky smooth to this very day, although I am now stuck at El Capitan.

So, here I am in 2019 contemplating a new machine for my everyday computing. Writing emails, listening to music, browsing the web.. nothing too taxing. But I want whichever machine I choose to last.... for years! On that basis, I wouldn't consider anything less than 16GB. If you're wanting to keep your machine for years then you should choose 16 GB too. The operating systems and apps of tomorrow will thank you for it.

 

[Schnegg]

Need some assistance making a simple, but important, decision. Do I go with the 8GB or 16GB memory? Here's some information about my computer usage...

• I don't do use any Pro-like apps (no video editing or things of that sort).
• Despite the above, I am a heavy computer user and am opening 50MB spreadsheets all day (which doesn't sound like a lot but they do take time to load and time to manipulate all that data).
• I currently use a late 2012 MacBook Pro (which is what the new MacBook Air is replacing).
• This is both my work and personal laptop.

Any thoughts, questions or feedback? I realize it's a small request for assistance but any and all replies are appreciated.

Cheers.

Consider this: the SSD is crazy fast (about 2000MB/s) and can easily offload any deficiencies you might run into with RAM. For normal use, 8GB is enough when you have a fast PCIe SSD. Don't worry about it.

 

[raqball]

You mentioned earlier that the performance is sluggish. Any improvements now?

It has.... Boot up is still painstakingly s. l. o. w but that machine is pretty peppy now...
[doublepost=1541679617][/doublepost]

tl;dr If you want to keep your machine for the long haul - get 16 GB. RAM is not user serviceable anymore, so you have to think 5 years down the road... today!

So, here I am in 2019 contemplating a new machine for my everyday computing. Writing emails, listening to music, browsing the web.. nothing too taxing. But I want whichever machine I choose to last.... for years! On that basis, I wouldn't consider anything less than 16GB. If you're wanting to keep your machine for years then you should choose 16 GB too. The operating systems and apps of tomorrow will thank you for it.

These new machines are disposable as they are not repairable and just about every level.. Mojave can run fine on 4GB systems according to Apple..

Again, I am not sure what people are planning on doing on an Air to where they need 16GB or RAM but I suppose some may. The intended Air targets? 8GB will be more than sufficient...

 

[andg]

Get 8gb. Resell the machine 3-4 years down the line and get a new one when the base ram is 16gb.

Macs keep their resale value well, and the ram/storage upgrade prices are way too high.

By then you're probably also getting an upgrade itch anyway.

You will do fine with 8gb for now with your usage.

 

[EugW]

Consider this: the SSD is crazy fast (about 2000MB/s) and can easily offload any deficiencies you might run into with RAM. For normal use, 8GB is enough when you have a fast PCIe SSD. Don't worry about it.

As mentioned in the other thread, the fact that you posted peak sequential transfer speed of PCIe indicates you don’t really understand the issue here.

 

[andg]

As mentioned in the other thread, the fact that you posted peak sequential transfer speed of PCIe indicates you don’t really understand the issue here.

Sure, seq is not what helps in this case, random r/w speed is. And yeah, they're quite fast at that too.

Anyway, unless you work with large media files in pro applications, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between 8gb and 16gb.

 

[EugW]

Sure, seq is not what helps in this case, random r/w speed is. And yeah, they're quite fast at that too.

Anyway, unless you work with large media files in pro applications, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between 8gb and 16gb.

...unless you are a heavy multitasker. I don’t use pro multimedia applications (except light Photoshop occasionally), and 8 GB is adequate most of the time... until it isn’t. ie. 8 GB often is sufficient but sometimes it isn’t. Where you fit into that scale depends on your usage but it doesn’t require giant multimedia files in pro multimedia applications.

BTW, the arguments were the same 6 years ago when people were arguing about 4 vs 8.

 

[raqball]

...unless you are a heavy multitasker. I don’t use pro multimedia applications (except light Photoshop occasionally), and 8 GB is adequate most of the time... until it isn’t. ie. 8 GB often is sufficient but sometimes it isn’t. Where you fit into that scale depends on your usage but it doesn’t require giant multimedia files in pro multimedia applications.

BTW, the arguments were the same 6 years ago when people were arguing about 4 vs 8.

And 6 years later people are still able to get by on 4gb depending on their usage.. Heck Mojave even says it will work fine on 4.... These machines are disposable so how long to we really expect them to last?

The Air is not targeted at heavy users. It's targeted at home and student use. I've never once bumped into an issue with 8GB of RAM. The 8 v 16 has been going on for years, and years later people like me are still tooling along just fine on 8... I'd prefer 12 for a little extra wiggle room but 8 is and will be sufficient for the life of the machine is my guess / bet...

I still do not understand a use case on an Air that's not targeted towards power users where 16 is needed... I do assume there are a few rare cases but there won't be many. On a Pro? Sure more but the Air? I don't get it....

Air targeted buyers would be better served taking that extra RAM cash and putting it towards an SSD upgrade or Apple Care.....

I am on the fence with keeping mine or not. The screen brightness is meh.... Love touchID though and have no interest in the TB MBP. If the Air goes back I might look at a refurb nTB....

A bonus of the nTB is the 4 year KB warranty but not sure how that works with refurbs. On new the 4 years starts at date of 1st retail sale...

 

[EugW]

And 6 years later people are still able to get by on 4gb depending on their usage.. Heck Mojave even says it will work fine on 4.... These machines are disposable so how long to we really expect them to last?

The Air is not targeted at heavy users. It's targeted at home and student use. I've never once bumped into an issue with 8GB of RAM. The 8 v 16 has been going on for years, and years later people like me are still tooling along just fine on 8... I'd prefer 12 for a little extra wiggle room but 8 is and will be sufficient for the life of the machine is my guess / bet...

I still do not understand a use case on an Air that's not targeted towards power users where 16 is needed... I do assume there are a few rare cases but there won't be many. On a Pro? Sure more but the Air? I don't get it....

Air targeted buyers would be better served taking that extra RAM cash and putting it towards an SSD upgrade or Apple Care.....

I am on the fence with keeping mine or not. The screen brightness is meh.... Love touchID though and have no interest in the TB MBP. If the Air goes back I might look at a refurb nTB....

A bonus of the nTB is the 4 year KB warranty but not sure how that works with refurbs. On new the 4 years starts at date of 1st retail sale...

As has been stated before, the usage case for many people is no longer dependent upon CPU speed. CPU speed is great of course but many heavy business app years don’t actually need that much raw speed. However, some will need a lot of RAM while others don’t. And furthermore, all of these memory discussions presuppose there is only ever one user. If there is more than one then all bets are off.

BTW, in terms of lifespan: I have a 2008 MacBook and a 2009 MacBook Pro both still in active use. Yes 4 GB runs High Sierra fine, but only if you do one thing at a time. It was annoying enough just on a kitchen surfing, email, and recipe machine to necessitate upgrading to 8 GB.

I hope to keep my MacBook 2017 at least 5 years. I am a business app user that uses his laptop for work and at home, and for travel, and it’s a 12” with Core m3 Y CPU, but with 16 GB RAM.

 

[Schnegg]

Sure, seq is not what helps in this case, random r/w speed is. And yeah, they're quite fast at that too.

Anyway, unless you work with large media files in pro applications, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between 8gb and 16gb.

What he said. I quoted the wrong spec.

Also, if you really worry about RAM for pro apps, 16GB aren't going to cut it, either.

 

[EugW]

Put it this way...

If you are on a very limited budget and/or your needs are light and you don't plan on keeping the laptop for that long, then sure, get 8 GB.

However, if your budget isn't constrained, and you have moderate to heavy multitasking usage or have multiple users, and you keep your laptops a long time, then go for 16 GB.

And then there are all sorts of people in between.

There are four main factors I suggest considering, those being CPU, GPU, SSD, and RAM. IMO, the importance for most (but not all) people fall in this order: RAM > SSD > CPU > GPU. Thus, if you are on a budget, you may be better off scrimping on CPU speed than RAM, although in the case of the MacBook Air it's moot since there is only one CPU choice.

Running out SSD space is also really bad, but I rate RAM here higher than SSD because you can add external fast storage. You can't add external RAM, not even slow RAM.

 

[raqball]

Put it this way...

If you are on a very limited budget and/or your needs are light and you don't plan on keeping the laptop for that long, then sure, get 8 GB.

However, if your budget isn't constrained, and you have moderate to heavy multitasking usage or have multiple users, and you keep your laptops a long time, then go for 16 GB.

Why do some think people who choose 8GB are broke bums? I can afford whatever I want but am not into waste either. Why on earth would I flush $200 down the toilet for RAM that is going to sit unused? For a warm and fuzzy feeling? Pass!

I don't ever get more than 256GB of storage either and again, it's not because I am a broke bum.. I have 1TB of Google Drive space and 1TB of One Drive Space.... I simply do not need to buy more internal storage...

When exactly do you expect that 8GB will be obsolete and worthless?

My basic question all along still remains unanswered... Let me try again

1. Who is the Air targeted at?
2. Of those targeted, how many would need 16GB RAM?

I'll give me answers

1. Home users and students
2. 5% or less. And of that 5% they should have chosen a different machine.

 

[EugW]

Why do some think people who choose 8GB are broke bums? I can afford whatever I want but am not into waste either. Why on earth would I flush $200 down the toilet for RAM that is going to sit unused? For a warm and fuzzy feeling? Pass!

I don't ever get more than 256GB of storage either and again, it's not because I am a brome bum.. I have 1TB of Google Drive space and 1TB of One Drive Space.... I simply do not need to buy more internal storage...

Read my post again. I didn't say get 8 GB only if you're broke. However, I did say if you are broke, get 8 GB. ie. Being broke is one of several reasons that might point you toward getting only 8 GB, but it is by no means the only one.

If 8 GB works well for you then great, but there are very many good reasons even on a Y machine to get more. I personally would have loved for the 12 GB option, but that didn't exist.

 

[Dave245]

Why do some think people who choose 8GB are broke bums? I can afford whatever I want but am not into waste either. Why on earth would I flush $200 down the toilet for RAM that is going to sit unused? For a warm and fuzzy feeling? Pass!

I don't ever get more than 256GB of storage either and again, it's not because I am a broke bum.. I have 1TB of Google Drive space and 1TB of One Drive Space.... I simply do not need to buy more internal storage...

When exactly do you expect that 8GB will be obsolete and worthless?

I don’t believe they were calling you or anyone a “bum” the way I understand it is that those who plan to keep the machine for a long period of time (around 5 years or more) should probably get the 16GB Ram, you may not need it now but over time habits change, apps get more Ram hungry and so do the OS upgrades I think.

 

[raqball]

Read my post again. I didn't say get 8 GB only if you're broke. However, I did say if you are broke, get 8 GB. ie. Being broke is one of several reasons that might point you toward getting only 8 GB, but it is by no means the only one.

If 8 GB works well for you then great, but there are very many good reasons even on a Y machine to get more. I personally would have loved for the 12 GB option, but that didn't exist.

You post says exactly what I quoted but I'll move on and the RAM discussion is pointless.... We are talking about an Air here with a Y processor and a crappy GPU.. If someone needs 16GB of RAM then this is the wrong machine to buy...

 

[EugW]

When exactly do you expect that 8GB will be obsolete and worthless?

I didn't say 8 GB will be obsolete and worthless, so trying to misdirect the conversation. I said that 8 GB can be a limitation and that limitation may get worse over time.

I posted in the other thread that in my experience memory usage increases by about 50% every 4 years or so. This would mean that if 8 GB is perfect for you now, then 4-5 years from now, 12 GB would be perfect for you. And even if it's only 10 GB, that's still more than 8 GB.

Out of the two things that you can upgrade on this machine, RAM is the one you can't after the fact. At least with SSD storage, you can supplement with external storage.

You post says exactly what I quoted but I'll move on and the RAM discussion is pointless.... We are talking about an Air here with a Y processor and a crappy GPU.. If someone needs 16GB of RAM then this is the wrong machine to buy...

This post is dead wrong of course. Even Apple doesn't agree with you, considering they offer the 16 GB option.

Y CPUs and integrated GPUs are now more than sufficient for a lot of business application workloads. But those workloads often tend to be RAM hogs.

 

[Kimcha]

5 pages and there is still back-and-forth. Love it.

Keep on fighting the good fight. Nobody will be convinced to change their opinion here!

 

[raqball]

I didn't say 8 GB will be obsolete and worthless, so stop changing the subject. I said that 8 GB is a limitation and that it depends on length of time.

I posted in the other thread that in my experience memory usage increases by about 50% every 4 years or so. This would mean that if 8 GB is perfect for you now, then 4-5 years from now, 12 GB would be perfect for you. And even if it's only 10 GB, that's still more than 8 GB.

Out of the two things that you can upgrade on this machine, RAM is the one you can't after the fact. At least with SSD storage, you can supplement with external storage.

Disagree on RAM but if you feel the targeted audience of the Air needs 16GB of RAM then so be it.....

5 pages and there is still back-and-forth. Love it.

Keep on fighting the good fight. Nobody will be convinced to change their opinion here!

So true! I am out of this one as these RAM discussions just keep going until the end of time. Some try and justify their purchase and others just want to be right....

I personally do not care what people spend their $$$ on but on an Air with a Y processor and a crappy GPU, my opinion is it's not needed and if it is then they purchased the wrong machine...

With that, I'm outta here...