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If you lease it, you own nothing when it's all said and done. If you decide to pay the remaining balance at the end of the term then yes, you would own it at that point. I updated my post for clarity. However, my point still stands. You're leasing a low-end laptop, in the realm of laptop computers, and that is insane. If you can't afford it, save up for one and then buy it. It's better than getting into a legally binding leasing contract and being beholden to some scumbag financing company, all over a laptop.
So save the $25 a month for three years, (while presumedly using your old crappy laptop the whole time, whose software support and resale value will go to zero by the time you are done saving), and THEN buy the laptop, rather than pay the same $25 a month as you go and get use of a much better, modern laptop the entire time? That's what you're advocating?
 
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I guess a substantial part of the price hike was about rationing? But I'm sure the price hike also pressured supply of the Air, perhaps more than they were anticipating. I'm curious what supply is like on the Pro.
 
Agree, and it also causes problems for ownership.

Example:

Cool, I can rent a MacBook Pro 16 inch for three years and pay at total of just short of 2k but if I can’t cough up the extra 1k at the end to own it I of course have to give it back.

2k gone and you’ve got nothing to show for it at the end.

However playing devils advocate.

If you have an extreme work load and like to upgrade your laptop every 3 years you are getting a good deal because each Mac will cost less overall but that only works if you continue to keep upgrading after 3 years.

Leases can be dangerous but if people can take them out responsibly, I guess it’s nice to have another option.
Certainly you understand the concept of a 0% lease. You've paid $2K, but the residual value (or, what you 'owe') is that $1K balance.

In other words, if you would have paid cash for the MacBook Pro 16, after 3 years it would only be worth $1K.

So exactly the same "to show" for what you invested either lease or buy.
 
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Apple has lowered the base price on newer models, prices may come back down.
Yeah, there is a tradeoff for Apple. Lower the price and they get more sales but less profit per unit. Increase it then profit per unit increases but volumes fall. Somewhere there is a sweet spot for them and I see no reason why they wouldn't return to that when the shortages end.
 
Without the sales figures, the supposition in the article is entirely speculative. It's just as possible there are long lead times because they aren't prioritizing Air production to allocate RAM to higher-priced SKUs, for example.
Yep. The fact that all stock MacBook Pro configurations are available for next-day delivery on their online store speaks volumes. Plus the fact that third party retailers seem to have plenty of MacBook Air stock across screen sizes, colours, storage sizes etc.
 
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So save the $25 a month for three years, (while presumedly using your old crappy laptop the whole time, whose software support and resale value will go to zero by the time you are done saving), and THEN buy the laptop, rather than pay the same $25 a month as you go and get use of a much better, modern laptop the entire time? That's what you're advocating?
If it takes a person three years to save for a MacBook Air at a paltry $25 a month, they are doing it wrong. Yes, I am advocating for saving over leasing (in the vast majority of cases anyway). If more people saved some of their money in this world, they would be better off. Saving teaches people a valuable life lesson. I'll let you go ahead and research the lack of savings and the future it brings to these people. Again, I'm not going to be beholden to some swine infested finance company, on top of getting myself into a legally binding contract, just to pay for a laptop/phone/tablet.
 


Despite receiving a price increase in June, the MacBook Air is currently experiencing a "major" shortage, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.
With all their cash and assets I am surprised that Apple hasn't built their own or 'in collaboration with' fabrication and assembly plants in China, India, Taiwan and America. That way they could have greater control over their entire supply chain, both with RAM/Storage and CPU fabrication and packaging. They could use it to stabilise, supplement and secure their own supply (and not be held to ransom by increased prices due to global shortages as we have now) and maybe even supply ARM based chips, RAM and NAND to other suppliers. It might take 5 years to build but so did the current Apple Campus. They have the cash so why not invest it.

The fact that we have a global RAM and NAND drought is solely down to the likes of Micron sticking 1 or 2 fingers up at the OEMs to favour the data centres. The industry has a long memory (as do consumers) and we won't forget nor forgive. Had they not virtually shut the door on us and split the load we wouldn't be in this mess. I know this is a simple capitalist as well as supply and demand issue (as well as multi $B contracts to secure and prioritise their requirements but it's so lopsided.
 
The rational response to demand exceeding supply should be another hefty price hike. Apple shouldn't be afraid of profiting from the opportunities presented by scarcity of supply. The brand is positioned perfectly to exploit these opportunities.
Well not really. Apple can't keep up with demand so they are losing out on sales. Their cost prices have increased but despite upping the retail price they will still likely see their hardware profits stagnate or increase marginally compared to what the would have been. Tim was the master of stock efficiency so his successor is coming in at the worst time, with potentially a stock on incomplete MacBooks, iPads and iPhones all waiting for their RAM and NAND storage.
 
Cool, I can rent a MacBook Pro 16 inch for three years and pay at total of just short of 2k but if I can’t cough up the extra 1k at the end to own it I of course have to give it back.

You're not necessarily "renting" in this situation, it's more like financing the deprecation instead of financing the full price.

The Upgrade leasing program can actually be "better" than financing or paying cash. Let's say three customers each have $1,999 in a savings or investment account earning same APY/return. One pays cash, one finances for 36 months at 0% APR and the third leases with the Upgrade program for 36 months at 0% APR.

Using a $1,999 MacBook Pro as an example (but similar would apply to any Mac):

Customer #1 (pays cash)
Pays $1,999 upfront.

Customer #2 (finances at 0% APR for 3 years)
Pays $55.53/month for three years.

Customer #3 (leases at 0% APR for 3 years)
Pays $38.99/month for three years and then $595.36 at lease end.

All three end up owning the computer but customer #3 who leased has the most money leftover in their account at 36 months because they kept more money in the account longer (due to lower monthly payments) earning interest/return. We're obviously not talking significant money here, unless interest/return is significant, but still more.
 
Even if someone saved up for the computer, it can still be better for them financially to lease than pay cash or finance. See my previous post above (#138).
I get what you are saying. But earning a few dollars in interest or from an investment (the later of which most people never actually do anyway) by leasing it and getting myself into a legally binding contract with a financing company for three years, adding a monthly bill, and adding a hard inquiry to my credit report are absolutely not worth it for a computer IMO. Also, if you have enough of these leases and payment plans, it will lower your credit score (in the US). I'm going to be completely debt free in two years after I pay off my house. Trust me, this is the place everyone should strive to be. I'm nowhere near close to retirement age either, btw. And in full disclosure, I've spent a period of time in my life being in a fair amount of debt, and having a lot of monthly payments to keep up with. There's no joy in it.
 
I get what you are saying. But earning a few dollars in interest or from an investment (the later of which most people never actually do anyway) by leasing it and getting myself into a legally binding contract with a financing company for three years, adding a monthly bill, and adding a hard inquiry to my credit report are absolutely not worth it for a computer IMO. Also, if you have enough of these leases and payment plans, it will lower your credit score (in the US). I'm going to be completely debt free in two years after I pay off my house. Trust me, this is the place everyone should strive to be. I'm nowhere near close to retirement age either, btw. And in full disclosure, I've spent a period of time in my life being in a fair amount of debt, and having a lot of monthly payments to keep up with. There's no joy in it.

Ok, although it shouldn't be a "hard inquiry" to credit for the lease. Also, even multiple Upgrade program-like leases should have very little impact on credit score (in the U.S.) assuming customer makes the payments.

While leasing a computer for three years may not be appropriate, desirable or the best option for everyone, I certainly wouldn't call it "absolutely bonkers" as you did in post #71. As I outlined in a previous post, it can actually be financially better in the end (as slightly as it might be) for a customer to lease.
 
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Ok, although it shouldn't be a "hard inquiry" to credit for the lease. Also, even multiple Upgrade program-like leases should have very little impact on credit score (in the U.S.) assuming customer makes the payments.

While leasing a computer for three years may not be appropriate, desirable or the best option for everyone, I certainly wouldn't call it "absolutely bonkers" as you did in post #71. As I outlined in a previous post, it can actually be financially better in the end (as slightly as it might be) for a customer to lease.
The more credit lines you open and the more credit you utilize, the lower your score will typically be, even if you are making payments on time. Overall, I don't think the credit system in the US very good though. Anyway, to each their own I suppose.
 
The more credit lines you open and the more credit you utilize, the lower your score will typically be, even if you are making payments on time. Overall, I don't think the credit system in the US very good though. Anyway, to each their own I suppose.

If you are against using credit and loans, why would you care about your credit score?

More relevant to this topic... Apple has not given details on whether these leases will be reported to credit bureaus as installment loans. Apparently, they will not. Klarna does not do a hard inquiry during their approval process.

So, applying for Apple Upgrade will not lower your credit score. Since it isn't reported, there will be no indication on your credit history of making payments. In other words, it won't improve your FICO score. It can hurt your credit score if you miss payments. A delinquent account or an account sent to collections will be reported.

It appears that eliminating the hard inquiry was one design point for the Apple Upgrade product. Apple will undoubtedly sell more hardware this way. It also appears that it was created to eliminate consuming part of a customers Apple Card revolving credit limit.

I think we can agree that if one is living their financial life underwater, this product can induce a person to make bad financial decisions. The same is true with any other lease or BNPL purchase. Where we diverge this can be a good deal for a person who knows how to manage their resources and has the discipline to follow a budget.
 
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If it takes a person three years to save for a MacBook Air at a paltry $25 a month, they are doing it wrong. Yes, I am advocating for saving over leasing (in the vast majority of cases anyway). If more people saved some of their money in this world, they would be better off. Saving teaches people a valuable life lesson. I'll let you go ahead and research the lack of savings and the future it brings to these people. Again, I'm not going to be beholden to some swine infested finance company, on top of getting myself into a legally binding contract, just to pay for a laptop/phone/tablet.
This is a content-free answer. "Swine infested", really? So I guess you go through life wth no credit accounts at all? No legally binding contracts for you? Pay cash for everything?

For the 100th time, there are no fees or interest with Apple Upgrade. It's the exact same amount of money it would cost to buy it after having "saved up", as you demand. Nobody is being ripped off, and nobody is investing in something that would be better sent to savings. You are portraying this as the same as buying with a credit card and paying hundreds in interest fees over the three years. That is not happening, but of course you know this.
 
Price increase with included "major" shortage?

You know you want the privilege of whitewashing this fence...
 
If you are against using credit and loans, why would you care about your credit score?

More relevant to this topic... Apple has not given details on whether these leases will be reported to credit bureaus as installment loans. Apparently, they will not. Klarna does not do a hard inquiry during their approval process.

So, applying for Apple Upgrade will not lower your credit score. Since it isn't reported, there will be no indication on your credit history of making payments. In other words, it won't improve your FICO score. It can hurt your credit score if you miss payments. A delinquent account or an account sent to collections will be reported.

It appears that eliminating the hard inquiry was one design point for the Apple Upgrade product. Apple will undoubtedly sell more hardware this way. It also appears that it was created to eliminate consuming part of a customers Apple Card revolving credit limit.

I think we can agree that if one is living their financial life underwater, this product can induce a person to make bad financial decisions. The same is true with any other lease or BNPL purchase. Where we diverge this can be a good deal for a person who knows how to manage their resources and has the discipline to follow a budget.
I never said I was against using credit and loans, I said I am against using credit or a getting tied to a lease/loan for a laptop/phone/tablet. Your credit score isn't just tied to the ability to get loans. A good credit score helps you get rental housing, lower utility deposits, and better insurance rates, to name a few examples.

It is good if they eliminate the hard inquiry during this new process. However, I do know that companies like Klarna have started to report to credit bureaus for their longer term loans, beyond the pay in four or pay in thirty days types of terms.
 
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This is a content-free answer. "Swine infested", really? So I guess you go through life wth no credit accounts at all? No legally binding contracts for you? Pay cash for everything?

For the 100th time, there are no fees or interest with Apple Upgrade. It's the exact same amount of money it would cost to buy it after having "saved up", as you demand. Nobody is being ripped off, and nobody is investing in something that would be better sent to savings. You are portraying this as the same as buying with a credit card and paying hundreds in interest fees over the three years. That is not happening, but of course you know this.
Once again, you've glossed over the points that I've made. And yes, outside of my home that will be paid off in a couple of years, I pay for everything w/ my Amex card (or cash), which I pay in full each month so I never accrue interest while keeping a line of credit open so as not to lower my score. I also use my Amex and not a debit card because when fraud happens, it is far easier to deal with Amex than it is most banks, in my experience. The sad reality is, in the US we have to have a line of credit or two that we make timely payments on (hopefully), just to boost our scores. I don't think this is right, but I digress. Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree here. I've labored on this topic with you long enough.
 
I get what you are saying. But earning a few dollars in interest or from an investment (the later of which most people never actually do anyway) by leasing it and getting myself into a legally binding contract with a financing company for three years, adding a monthly bill, and adding a hard inquiry to my credit report are absolutely not worth it for a computer IMO. Also, if you have enough of these leases and payment plans, it will lower your credit score (in the US). I'm going to be completely debt free in two years after I pay off my house. Trust me, this is the place everyone should strive to be. I'm nowhere near close to retirement age either, btw. And in full disclosure, I've spent a period of time in my life being in a fair amount of debt, and having a lot of monthly payments to keep up with. There's no joy in it.
Sadly your very rational and valid points don't land for a lot of people as is apparent by popularity of such payment plans for just about anything and everything.
 
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What happens when you damage the product before you can pay ot

Sadly your very rational and valid points don't land for a lot of people as is apparent by popularity of such payment plans for just about anything and everything.
Yes, it's crazy that people can and have been financing Door Dash orders using the 'Pay in 4' plan.
 
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A lot of our western capitalist system is to blame for that in influencing societies values as a whole; want now; have now; you deserve it! Consumer first; human organism second..

Yes, hyperbolic (just a touch) to bring home the point.
 
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