MacBook Air's cooling system is... terrible...

[reukiodo]

It is. That fan does NOT cool down the heat sink at all.

This is an absolute statement, which is incorrect. As others have already suggested, this can be verified empirically.

Like I said more efficiency.

This is a comparative statement, which is probably correct. Given the same design (space, load, weight) requirements, I personally am not convinced that a heatpipe would perform much better, if at all.

We are talking about efficiency. A fan with a heat pipe will do BETTER than that.

This is changing the argument from about whether the fan has any affect at all on the CPU temperature to an argument about how the heatpipe is better at heat dissipation.

From all your recent posts, either you are clearly unhappy and not thinking straight, or just trying to instigate others. I'd prefer to think the logic fallacy was not caused by your direct intention, so just cool off a bit so you can think clearly.

 

[sentential]

It doesnt matter whether it's Y or U. Clearly, Apple poorly designed MacBook Air. Why dont you build a desktop and put a heatsink without a fan while a rear case fan is the only way to pull hot airs out? There is no way to transfer hot temperature from MacBook Air's heatsink and this is why a heat pipe is important.

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And you are defending Apple's stupid design? Gosh. It is not the first time and Apple is well known for having issues with the cooling system for a long time. Nothing new at all.

Yes it does, the programming on Y and U series processors are completely different. Y series are designed to run within a specific power envelope either up-clocked or down clocked to a specific TDP. Y series are for mobile, embedded or industrial systems that are used in environments with highly restrictive or no cooling at all.

Second there is a fan, the method Apple is using here is identical to 1U blade servers. You have positive airflow from the cold isle (intake) blowing across a heatsink and is extracted out the rear of the chassis by use of a fan shroud that is sealed directing airflow into the hot isle (exhaust). This is not conjecture or opinion but a statement of fact. If you look at the inside bottom cover you can see the shroud and the direction the airflow path takes. So there is airflow and a fan not blowing but pulling air out of the case with the fan sitting at the main exhaust point

There's no choice on that MacBookAir for a "fan with a heat pipe".
That would likely be better cooling (more efficient), no doubt.
But, you made the statement that the fan does not cool down the heat sink at all, which is certainly not accurate, unless you have tested it both with, and without the fan... (I wouldn't try it without a fan at all, but it's on you, I suppose, to test it out)

Not only this but there is physically no space for it as the heat pipe by nature has to have a void to place into so either the logic board would have a notch in it to accommodate the heat pipe which would require reducing the battery capacity. So your pick, heat pipe or better battery life?

It is. That fan does NOT cool down the heat sink at all.

That is simply not true. Yes there is no *positive* airflow being pushed across the heatsink, but there is *negitive* airflow being pulled across it just like in the video below.

Like I said, that doesnt justify a fan-less design. Intel CPU tends to have overheated due to 14nm.

For a Y series? I'm surprised it even has a fan, this is an embedded processor used for tablets and industrial appliances and NAS. The only reason it does is because Apple chose to take the highest TDP Y series design likely so that a quad core could be introduced in 2020.

What makes you think that I'm trolling for? Does truth hurt you a lot? Then move along.

You're not helping your argument. Should Apple use larger heatsinks? Depends on who you ask, they use custom chips on custom voltage curves and run at temperatures equivalent to other makers. The MPB of today with a better iGPU and higher TDP chip runs at higher clock frequencies than a Thinkpad P1 or X1C which are viewed as the best Windows based PCs. Almost all thin-and-lights can't run below 100C without liquid metal. This is also a fact.

The reason Apple can get away with it is using custom voltage curves in OS X which do not exist in Windows hence the overheating.

Should Apple release a DTR that is a thick-book-pro? Sure, but it would be pointless unless they released it as a full XeonSP laptop which again people would complain ran hot and loud and poorly cooled just like they do now. Most people would rather have the weight saving or extra battery life rather than maintaining an extra 10-20% boost clock.

 

[Pro7913]

No-one provides any opinions or ideas toward the obvious fact that Apple screwed another product with a cooling system. It's too bad since Apple still making the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[sentential]

No-one provides any opinions or ideas toward the obvious fact that Apple screwed another product with a cooling system. It's too bad since Apple still making the same mistakes over and over again.

How exactly? It runs above base clock and does so at 100% load that by default means it doesn’t throttle. What you mean to say is that it doesn’t turbo as high as it could if it had the same kind of cooling as the previous MBA.

The previous MBA ran U series processors, not Y. The previous RMB used a Y series processor and just like the tablets it had neither a fan nor a heat sink of any kind. So that’s 2 more on this design that wasn't used before.

What you are trying to argue is that for the price the MBA should run at minimum a U-series chip and all MBP should use H series chips.

Sure I agree but that’s not what you said at all. You said they screwed up the design for a Y-series chip by using a ducted cooling solution rather than a heat pipe which I disagree. What was designed works to spec. You don’t like the spec, we get that but it *IS* to spec.

 

[Pro7913]

Still, all of you defending Apple's stupid design for no reason and I feel very disappointed. Even Macbook without a fan-less design proved that it throttle a lot.

 

[sentential]

Still, all of you defending Apple's stupid design for no reason and I feel very disappointed. Even Macbook without a fan-less design proved that it throttle a lot.

They chose a design with the intent to make it as thin as possible with the largest battery possible without resorting to adhesives like Microsoft does for the surface laptops.

The only way you could get what you’re asking for would sacrifice repairability, battery life or add cost. The MBA at $1k is hard enough to justify as is. The cooling is fine.

 

[Mainsail]

lol good luck with MacBook Air with a poorly designed cooling system.

I have owned my 2019 MBA for about 5 months, and there have been zero cooling issues. The fan rarely comes on and it is very quiet. This model MBA has been in the wild for over a year with this cooling system, so millions of computers with 100s of millions of hours of use. I rarely read of complaints about cooling during actual use. Of course, people will look at the design and complain without thinking about the low power CPU. But, the real proof is in how it performs when used.

 

[mmomega]

It doesnt matter whether it's Y or U. Clearly, Apple poorly designed MacBook Air. Why dont you build a desktop and put a heatsink without a fan while a rear case fan is the only way to pull hot airs out? There is no way to transfer hot temperature from MacBook Air's heatsink and this is why a heat pipe is important.

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And you are defending Apple's stupid design? Gosh. It is not the first time and Apple is well known for having issues with the cooling system for a long time. Nothing new at all.

Your post is based on personal opinion based off of emotion that the moment another person asks a question the response turns in to sarcasm because they do not agree with my thought.

There has been at this moment zero data backing up what you are preaching as truth.

I would ask, how did computers even exist for the amount of time that they actually existed without heatpipes?
How do larger desktop systems properly cool with a single fan over a 10 year span? If this was legitimately insufficient, it would not be able to happen.

An issue many people have in many areas is using an object outside of it's intended purpose of being built and then criticizing the thing.

 

[revmacian]

Why dont you build a desktop and put a heatsink without a fan while a rear case fan is the only way to pull hot airs out?

I've actually done that.. I spent just over a decade building GNU/Linux boxes that included a heatsink and a case fan and those machines worked quite well. Of course I didn't build machines that could rival Blue Gene, but that isn't the goal of an MBA either.

 

[Pro7913]

I would ask, how did computers even exist for the amount of time that they actually existed without heatpipes?
How do larger desktop systems properly cool with a single fan over a 10 year span? If this was legitimately insufficient, it would not be able to happen

You are talking about an old tech which doesnt even require that kind of cooling system which is out of topic.
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I have owned my 2019 MBA for about 5 months, and there have been zero cooling issues. The fan rarely comes on and it is very quiet. This model MBA has been in the wild for over a year with this cooling system, so millions of computers with 100s of millions of hours of use. I rarely read of complaints about cooling during actual use. Of course, people will look at the design and complain without thinking about the low power CPU. But, the real proof is in how it performs when used.

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It has a proper cooling system. Defending MBA's poor cooling system doesnt make your experience valid. I guess you've been suffered from thermal throttling while you dont even aware about it.
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I've actually done that.. I spent just over a decade building GNU/Linux boxes that included a heatsink and a case fan and those machines worked quite well. Of course I didn't build machines that could rival Blue Gene, but that isn't the goal of an MBA either.

We are talking about a laptop here. Come on.

 

[revmacian]

We are talking about a laptop here. Come on.

I was actually responding to your own challenge: "Why dont you build a desktop and put a heatsink without a fan while a rear case fan is the only way to pull hot airs out?"

Ok, I have a question for you. How often does your 2019 MacBook Air overheat and cause heat-related problems? Mine hasn't overheated yet, I haven't heard of anyone else having this issue, but I'm curious to know if your 2019 MBA has.

 

[souko]

Apple MacBook Air 2018 (i5, 256 GB) Laptop Review

Notebookcheck reviews the new 2018 Apple MacBook Air with a Core i5 CPU and 256 GB SSD storage. The highlight is the new 13.3-inch Retina display, which fixes one of the biggest issues we had with the previous generations.

www.notebookcheck.net

here is cinebench runned multiple times and CPU does not throttle. So what exactly is wrong about cooling? That it does not throttle?

 

[mmomega]

You are talking about an old tech which doesnt even require that kind of cooling system which is out of topic.

So deflecting can not be your answer. That tech is being used in thousands of actual businesses today.

A CPU that gets warm and requires to be cooled down to continue to operate is on the same topic.

The years have simply given a more effective methods of cooling for those that make the choice to use it in their particular scenario.

There are still devices that use heatsinks today without heatpipes.

Intel CPU heatsinks today, no heatpipes.
AMD CPU heatsinks today, no heatpipes.
iPad Pro which is quite a bit more powerful than the MacBook Air. No heatpipes
XBox One X, no heatpipes.

Of course manufacturers make heatsinks utilizing heatpipes, but you can not just refuse to acknowledge the ones that do not use it and then blow it off because you don't agree with it emotionally.

 

[Pro7913]

Apple MacBook Air 2018 (i5, 256 GB) Laptop Review

Notebookcheck reviews the new 2018 Apple MacBook Air with a Core i5 CPU and 256 GB SSD storage. The highlight is the new 13.3-inch Retina display, which fixes one of the biggest issues we had with the previous generations.

www.notebookcheck.net

here is cinebench runned multiple times and CPU does not throttle. So what exactly is wrong about cooling? That it does not throttle?

It can be better if it has a proper cooling system!
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I was actually responding to your own challenge: "Why dont you build a desktop and put a heatsink without a fan while a rear case fan is the only way to pull hot airs out?"

Ok, I have a question for you. How often does your 2019 MacBook Air overheat and cause heat-related problems? Mine hasn't overheated yet, I haven't heard of anyone else having this issue, but I'm curious to know if your 2019 MBA has.

Personal experience does not reflect overall experiences.
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So deflecting can not be your answer. That tech is being used in thousands of actual businesses today.

A CPU that gets warm and requires to be cooled down to continue to operate is on the same topic.

The years have simply given a more effective methods of cooling for those that make the choice to use it in their particular scenario.

There are still devices that use heatsinks today without heatpipes.

Intel CPU heatsinks today, no heatpipes.
AMD CPU heatsinks today, no heatpipes.
iPad Pro which is quite a bit more powerful than the MacBook Air. No heatpipes
XBox One X, no heatpipes.

Of course manufacturers make heatsinks utilizing heatpipes, but you can not just refuse to acknowledge the ones that do not use it and then blow it off because you don't agree with it emotionally.

Both Intel and AMD desktop CPU can use a CPU cooler. What do you wanna say?
iPad Pro does not have it because it's ARM. WTH are you talking about? Does it even need a cooler?
Xbox One X has a cooler directly on CPU and GPU. It's stupid you know.

Your statement is not even logical. How come laptops including Macbook series have a proper cooler with a heat pipe? You see, it can be much better with a heat pipe connected to a fan. MBA's cooling system is a joke.

 

[revmacian]

Personal experience does not reflect overall experiences.

Please answer my question. How often does your 2019 MacBook Air overheat and cause heat-related problems?

 

[arogge]

I like my laptop's cooling system. It has no fan, and continues to operate in temperatures up to around 130 °F. Add to that a daylight-readable screen, plenty of accessory ports, and weather-sealing that can go through a monsoon, and I'm a very happy customer. Apple keeps taking away ports, making things thinner and more expensive, and still hasn't figured out that laptops are meant to be used outdoors in a variety of environmental conditions.

 

[||\||]

In the smaller MBPs, the fan is only used when the system is pushed. IIRC, it kicks on at about 70 or 80 degrees. Otherwise, fan speed sits at 0000 RPM.

 

[souko]

It can be better if it has a proper cooling system!
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But it is not bad cooling if it does not throttle, right?



Everything can be better.

But this is compromise among battery, cooling and so on. I personally would not buy MacBook Air but MacBook Pro, because I need more power. But that does not mean, that Air is bad. It is great portable laptop with good enough cooling, good battery life and good enough performance.

You can have better performance, but with worse battery life or worse portability. I can not see problem. If you do not like it. Do not buy it. This simple it is.

 

[Pro7913]

But it is not bad cooling if it does not throttle, right?



Everything can be better.

But this is compromise among battery, cooling and so on. I personally would not buy MacBook Air but MacBook Pro, because I need more power. But that does not mean, that Air is bad. It is great portable laptop with good enough cooling, good battery life and good enough performance.

You can have better performance, but with worse battery life or worse portability. I can not see problem. If you do not like it. Do not buy it. This simple it is.

Like I said, personal experience does not reflect the overall experience.
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Please answer my question. How often does your 2019 MacBook Air overheat and cause heat-related problems?

Obviously a lot.
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In the smaller MBPs, the fan is only used when the system is pushed. IIRC, it kicks on at about 70 or 80 degrees. Otherwise, fan speed sits at 0000 RPM.

MBP's fan is directly connected to CPU's heat sink. It's out of topic.

 

[revmacian]

Obviously a lot.

So, your 2019 MacBook Air is suffering from heating/cooling issues due to the lack of a heat pipe? You might want to take your 2019 MacBook Air in and have it looked at because I know several people who own the same model and they don't suffer from heating/cooling issues. I haven't even seen widespread reports of heating/cooling issues with the 2019 MacBook Air.. you might have a defective unit.

 

[unoporfavor]

The discussion at iFixit describes it as a case ventilation/exhaust fan. The discontinued 12" MacBook 2017 with 5W CPU was completely fanless. The 13" MacBook Air 2018/2019 has a 7W CPU. One commentor says it's reasonable to believe that the fan and case design provide sufficient airflow for the slight increase.

You do realize that some of the Apple engineers who work on the mechanical design have PhDs, yes? And that they use Computational Fluid Dynamics software to perform detailed analyses? And that some of these people have received patents for their work?

It's not like they dump a pile of components into a case then say, "Hey look, there's a space over here, let's put the fan there."

It's worth noting that my MacBook Air's fan is off under a light work load. My gut feeling is that Apple actually knows what they are doing most of the time.

It's not like they dump a pile of components into a case then say, "Hey look, there's a space over here, let's put the fan there."
^^ Thank you - made me actually lol. I'm always amazed how the 'user-experts' are told something by a pile of reviewers that use iMovie and think they know better than thermodynamic experts!

 

[RiaKoobcam]

The year is 2025.

The war rages between the Heat Pipers and the Case Coolers.

Neither side can remember where these terms come from, or what they're fighting over.

The war continues. It will continue forever.

 

[reukiodo]

The year is 2025.

The war rages between the Heat Pipers and the Case Coolers.

Neither side can remember where these terms come from, or what they're fighting over.

The war continues. It will continue forever.

One small correction, it seems the Heat Piper is a team of only one.

 

[unoporfavor]

The year is 2025.

The war rages between the Heat Pipers and the Case Coolers.

Neither side can remember where these terms come from, or what they're fighting over.

The war continues. It will continue forever.

hah! Thank you for that. Puts it all into prospective.

Just an aside - I have just got the base model MBA 2020 i3. Having dumped all my photos into Pictures, the iPhoto analysis process is currently running at 90% +. Can only hear the fan if you put your ear to the outlet.

That was my major concern that it would be noisy. Was going to go for i5 but other than saving $ i was worried about battery life impact.
So far very happy with performance and quietness. Battery life to be tested..

 

[raymanh]

You do realize that some of the Apple engineers who work on the mechanical design have PhDs, yes? And that they use Computational Fluid Dynamics software to perform detailed analyses? And that some of these people have received patents for their work?

It's not like they dump a pile of components into a case then say, "Hey look, there's a space over here, let's put the fan there."

You do realize that it's not the Apple engineers who decide on the cooling. If it was their way it'd be much better cooled. You realize that its people above engineers who decide on a target performance from the Air. Not too little, but not too much as to rival the Pro. So yes they have PhDs, do CFD analysis etc. but that doesn't mean it has the best cooling possible for the chassis.