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yeah theres a lot of people like that on forums that come in just to bash whatever the forum is about 😉
It's the dv5t. Unlike Apple, HP and Dell (among many others) allow you to actually customize your hardware. Not be forced to choose from what they think you will like 😉 I'll also post a screenshot at the end of my post.
I'm sorry you can't handle hearing the truth about Macs. But as long as I own one I'll be posting here.
Theres even an open source effort to bring hardware acceleration for video to Linux as well!
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Cave Man
macrumors 604
While you'll get no disagreement from me about Apple's lack of optional upgrades for any of their computers (nor the conspicuous hole in their lineup), there are substantial differences between the HP and the MacBook. Here are a few from my config:
1. For the OS, you should select Vista Ultimate, as it is most inline with OS X Leopard.
2. The HP has HDMI and a 15" display, but does not have DVI (only VGA). This config is with the x4500 only. The 9600 adds $200 more to the price. It also has an express slot, which Apple should probably include in the MB.
3. The HP's stock battery seems to be low capacity, so I included the 3.5 hour battery as an upgrade (our MacBook gets 4-5 hours, depending on what we're doing).
4. There does not seem to be any optical audio in or out on the HP, which is standard on the MacBook.
5. There does not seem to be Bluetooth for the HP, which is standard on the MacBook.
6. I also added Adobe Photoshop Elements, which has support for RAW image formats from a variety of cameras, which is what iPhoto excels at, and Adobe Premiere as an iMovie/iDVD equivalent.
7. I did not see apps for music (i.e., Garage Band), iCal, iWeb, etc. that are included with all Macs (did I miss these on the HP?).
So the prices of these two computers are about the same. The HP might be better overall in hardware, but the MacBook is better in software.
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cave man's right...you have to take into consideration the software that comes with OSX...and by the looks of it...the prices end up pretty similar, if not making the macbook cheaper...
and mosx, the only reason that Windows has to take advantage of the hardware its installed on is because it needs all the help it can get from every part of the computer to do work...(and this is coming from someone hasnt made the switch to mac yet, so dont yak about me being a fanboy)
so stop trolling around bashing mac and OSX cuz thats not what we are looking for here
and mosx, the only reason that Windows has to take advantage of the hardware its installed on is because it needs all the help it can get from every part of the computer to do work...(and this is coming from someone hasnt made the switch to mac yet, so dont yak about me being a fanboy)
so stop trolling around bashing mac and OSX cuz thats not what we are looking for here
Wrong. This is a lie made up by the Apple fanboys. If you want to compare Vista Ultimate you'll find many features that OS X does not have, such as full disk encryption based around either a TPM chip or a USB key as a literal key, or both.
Vista Home Premium is every bit "in-line" with Leopard and even itself includes features that Leopard does not. Like built-in support for multiple HDTV tuners. Windows Media Center that makes Front Row look like, in the words of Steve Jobs, "baby software." It also comes with built-in DVD and video decoders that take full advantage of the hardware at hand. It comes with DVD authoring software (video and DVD in general), photo management, calendar, etc.
In other words, Vista Home Premium is everything Leopard is, as well as much more. You do NOT need Vista Ultimate.
My configuration had the GeForce 9600M GT.
HDMI is DVI, but with audio. Most good displays ship with HDMI inputs these days. You'd be hard pressed to find a display these days that can be considered good and does not have an HDMI input. Plus an HDMI to DVI adapter can be had for about 1/4 the cost of Apple's required mini-DVI adapters.
Plus the HP has VGA and S-Video outputs without requiring separate adapters for both. With a MacBook you need 3 different adapters for all three types of connections, adding up to $60 worth of adapters. With the HP its unlikely you'll never need an adapter as long as you have a good display.
Since you mentioned ExpressCard, the HP also has an option for a fingerprint reader, and the 5-in-1 memory card reader is standard.
The MacBook only gets such long battery life in unrealistic conditions. You basically have to turn the screen brightness to the lowest settings and not browse any websites with Flash.
To me, the MacBook screen is unusable at any setting below 50% brightness. Plus I like to browse sites that DO have Flash, so my real world battery life on my MacBook is roughly 3.5 hours. Only a few minutes more than my HP with the same high capacity battery.
If you paid attention, you'd notice that my configuration also had the higher capacity battery.
Digital audio output is handled by the HDMI output.
Digital audio input on the MacBook is essentially useless, considering it has either a Sigmatel or Realtek chipset depending on which chips were grabbed for the motherboard.
Because Bluetooth is useless? Its too slow for file transfers. Mobile phones these days, including Apple's own, don't use Bluetooth for anything other than hands-free headsets. So whats the point? After every OS X install I've had to do, one of the first things I've done is disabled Bluetooth. Theres absolutely no point in having it. None. I don't use my earpiece with my MacBook. The built-in mic is higher quality than the one on my Motorola H710. My Logitech USB headset is higher quality than any Bluetooth device or built-in microphone.
heh, first of all, if you're someone who cares about RAW image support, using iPhoto is completely out of the question. iPhoto is no good at anything beyond simple organizing and Photo albums. Which Vista has built-in, Windows Photo Gallery.
iMovie and iDVD? Windows has built-in movie editing (no its not the terrible Windows Movie Maker you're thinking of) and DVD authorization software. No need for expensive third party software if you're just going to use it the same way you would iMovie and iDVD.
Besides, you know how may times I've used iMovie in the year and a half I've owned a Mac? 0 times. You know how many times I used iDVD? One time. I guarantee you that the vast majority of Mac owners NEVER use the iLife apps outside of iPhoto.
So, just like with your incorrect choice of Vista Ultimate, you can knock these two incorrect choices off as well.
Do you know how many freeware apps are out there that do exactly the same thing as Garageband, but with a less pretty interface? Garage Band is nothing more than a prettier interface put on an app that came with a soundcard I had bought way back in 2001.
Not only that, but how many people actually use Garage Band? Aside from playing with it like a kid at first and then never opening it again after that?
Windows Calendar.
Useless without Mobile Me. Not to mention, again, freeware apps?
You know, I would bet every single dollar I will ever make in my entire life that Apple could delete the entire iLife suite, except for iTunes and iPhoto, from every Mac and it would probably not affect 99,999 out of every 100,000 Mac users.
It doesn't matter that this software comes with every Mac because very few Mac users actually take advantage of the built-in software. I mean, I cannot honestly see a situation where I would ever use iWeb, iMovie, or iDVD again. I've only ever fired up Garage Band to play with the instruments and thats it. No interest in it otherwise. If I wanted to record something I'd use Audacity anyway. Much easier to use when recording and chopping up things. Its also free and multi-platform.
No, the real world price is significantly different. The real price of the HP includes a higher resolution screen (1680x1050) and a GeForce 9600M GT. The MacBook ships with hardware that is equal to that of an $800 PC, and software that is essentially useless to the vast majority of computer users in the world.
As I said, in the real world, thats not true. Because the vast majority of people (probably more than 99%) will never use the iLife suite outside of iPhoto and iTunes. When it comes to that, Windows Photo Gallery, Picassa, HP Photosmart Essential (free to anyone) are all equal to iPhoto. iTunes is available on Windows as well as many other higher quality alternatives.
The software included with all Macs only drives up the price and most people aren't going to use it anyway.
You still need third party applications and Windows to make the system fully functional anyway.
If you had a Mac, you'd know this.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Windows takes advantage of the hardware at hand because its designed better than OS X. Playing a video? The GPU does the work. Playing a video in OS X? CPU does all of the work because its all software based. Playing music in Windows? Sound processor does the work. In OS X? CPU does the work with the help of the sound chip telling the processor what to do, much the same way very low end hardware works on Windows.
Windows even takes better advantage of GPUs thanks to DirectX and better OpenGL support from vendors.
In Windows Vista you can set the maximum CPU cycles, and all kinds of other advanced settings from a simple point and click interface, no need to drop to a command line like in OS X.
"Cuz"?
I'm not "trolling". I'm speaking the truth. If you can't handle the truth then don't read my posts. It's that simple. Theres no "bashing" or "trolling" going on when you're simply stating facts. If i was "trolling" or "bashing" I would be saying things like "haha Mac OS X SUCKS". But you don't see me doing that, do you? No. I am pointing out legitimate facts.
iwuzbord
macrumors 6502
im actually surprized that you didnt check the specifications on the machine you were buying before you bought it. its one of the golden rules of computerdom.
there are plenty of ways to sync mobile phones through bluetooth. i do it with my samsung u740. i use BitPim and use a bluetooth port instead of with usb.
i get 4 hours on my macbook with better battery life enabled
iweb isnt useless without mobile me. there are ways to use iweb to publish a site without mobile me.
but i people use the iLife suite because its there. its harder to find a freeware app than it is to use an app that came with your computer. and it also depends on what the user uses the apps for. iMovie is great if you want to make a class presentation. iDVD is helpful when wanting to share memories with loved ones.
but what you said about Vista Ultimate is completely correct.
But Bluetooth is still too slow. Bluetooth 2.0 EDR is still only running at a blazing 3Mbps. Thats if there are no environmental variables to slow the connection down. Real world USB 2 maxes out flash memory speed capacity, with transfers that are more than 10x faster than that.
And I get nearly 5 hours on my MacBook using the better battery life setting while playing a DVD. But with the screen set so low, its unusable. The screen has to be set to 50% at least. Plus if you're browsing sites with Flash (and we all know Flash eats up more CPU on OS X than Windows), then you're eating up battery life even faster thanks to the higher brightness, higher CPU cycles, and higher fan speed to cool the CPU.
Yeah, but its somewhat of a hassle because everything in iWeb is designed around being published to Mobile Me. Its a hassle to the point where the majority of people will not use it because they're not Mobile Me subscribers.
Class presentation? Not everyone is in school. But you can use other presentation software as well. You know OpenOffice.org is freeware and a great piece of software, right? I don't need to make a movie or anything with Open Office, and thanks to Windows proper external monitor support, I can connect the system to a projector and run the presentation without hassle.
iDVD? Well, you can use it to share home videos. Windows makes that a little easier, as you don't have to deal with all of the setup nonsense for the menus. Most people I know don't like menus and don't want them. They just want to pop the DVD in and watch. Its easier to make a menu-less DVD in Vista.
I don't know a single person that cares for picture slideshows on DVD either. Everyone I know wants pictures they can look at on the computer, on their portable device, or a physical print that they can frame or put in a book of their choosing.
When it comes to iMovie and iDVD, Windows Vista has equivalent software built-in. Its just not as flashy as the iLife apps. They also don't get as much attention because most people simply don't use them, or better Windows apps come with their digital video cameras.
How is it the truth, you talk about windows taking advantage of the hardware its run on very well.
You can say the same about OS X, its integrated with the hardware so its less likely to fail.
How often do you use your Mac? From your previous post it appears you've fallen head over heels in love with your HP.
Its your opinion and your very much entitled to it, however its not fact.
Maybe you've had a bad experience with your Mac.
I agree you don't get a lot of hardware for your money, but I'm going to side with other posters and say that OS X is worth the price tag.
Cave Man
macrumors 604
<sigh> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. There are many features in Leopard that are not in Vista, and vice versa.
Chappers
macrumors 68020
Sadly mosx, is missing the point.
Apple have tried to create a computer that you can use out of the box. Maybe most people do only use a couple of iLife apps but stuff is there if you want it. Vista scores very badly on this.
Having googled XP vs Vista - Lots of people (around 50%) seem to complain about Vista being a resource hog. In one poll on a PC site - Vista only scored 63 out of 100 overall (over 9 categories).
So yes those boxes are cheaper than the Mac but they still run Windows and that seems to be a problem for enough people that they downgrade to XP
Also enough computer makers were still selling PC's pre-installed with XP up until the end of June this year - I imagine that was because Vista was just so good that people didn't think they deserved it and asked for XP.
Anyway - must go - Seinfeld is on TV.... he used to be so funny .... whats he doing these days?
Apple have tried to create a computer that you can use out of the box. Maybe most people do only use a couple of iLife apps but stuff is there if you want it. Vista scores very badly on this.
Having googled XP vs Vista - Lots of people (around 50%) seem to complain about Vista being a resource hog. In one poll on a PC site - Vista only scored 63 out of 100 overall (over 9 categories).
So yes those boxes are cheaper than the Mac but they still run Windows and that seems to be a problem for enough people that they downgrade to XP
Also enough computer makers were still selling PC's pre-installed with XP up until the end of June this year - I imagine that was because Vista was just so good that people didn't think they deserved it and asked for XP.
Anyway - must go - Seinfeld is on TV.... he used to be so funny .... whats he doing these days?
</start rant/>
Another thing about the tao of Mac is the coffee shop factor. I guarantee you that if you walk into any coffee shop (at least where i live) with a Macbook, Macbook Pro, iPhone, or iPod Touch, you know that you are gonna get all kinds of jealous looks from people working on Vista and XP laptops.
@mosx, the thing that most people like about a mac is that out of the box you can do stuff with it. No need to update drivers, or install anti-virus software..(plus the fact that vista is a wierd looking copy of leopard) and while most people wont use all of the iLife software, some people like me find it invaluble for projects of all kinds. Sure, you pay a premium for apple products ( a slight rip-off) but for it you get some of the best designed computers in the business:
</end rant/>
Another thing about the tao of Mac is the coffee shop factor. I guarantee you that if you walk into any coffee shop (at least where i live) with a Macbook, Macbook Pro, iPhone, or iPod Touch, you know that you are gonna get all kinds of jealous looks from people working on Vista and XP laptops.
@mosx, the thing that most people like about a mac is that out of the box you can do stuff with it. No need to update drivers, or install anti-virus software..(plus the fact that vista is a wierd looking copy of leopard) and while most people wont use all of the iLife software, some people like me find it invaluble for projects of all kinds. Sure, you pay a premium for apple products ( a slight rip-off) but for it you get some of the best designed computers in the business:
</end rant/>
You're missing the point.
You see, Apple used to claim that OS X and the computers were designed around each other. And this might have been true in the past. But its not now. Now the hardware is the same as every other PC out there. They're using the same Intel chipsets, the same GPUs, the same Intel processors, etc. as everyone else. Theres absolutely nothing "special" about Apple's hardware. The only thing that sets it apart from everyone else is the price.
You also missed the point I made with how Windows uses the hardware versus OS X. Again, let's go back to video. In Vista and XP, if you're watching any video file (especially blu-ray/H.264 and DVDs), Windows will hand off all of the work to the GPU. OS X, on the other hand, uses the processor to do all of the work. Handing the workload off to the hardware that is specifically designed for the task at hand is "taking advantage of the hardware".
Let me repeat that. Windows "takes advantage of the hardware" by using hardware that is designed for specific tasks for those specific tasks. OS X does everything in software. Meaning it relies entirely on the CPU to do all of the work.
I'm using it right now 😉
Well, many people disagree with that. Thats why Apple's market share is still so small. OS X is simply not worth the money. You don't get what you pay for. You don't need most of what a Mac comes with.
Leopard is lacking far more than Vista than Vista lacks compared to Leopard. The only features Vista lacks that Leopard has most people will never use. However, Vista's technologies will be used by most and they won't even know it.
That is simply not true. First of all, Macs are not useable out of the box. You still need countless 3rd party apps, many of which are paid, to get functionality that you can get out of Windows with freeware. You have to download 3rd party instant messengers since iChat only works with a couple of protocols that not everyone uses. You have to download Firefox because Safari isn't anywhere near as secure or currently as fast. You have to download VLC and Perian, since Quicktime doesn't support anything really and VLC will give you somewhat decent sound quality compared to DVD Player's awful sound quality. You have to download Onyx. You have to get some sort of 3rd party firewall, since Apple offers no outbound control. You have to get some sort of 3rd party uninstalling software since so much junk gets left behind when you do uninstall apps.
Saying a Mac is completely useable out of the box is hilarious. Its simply not true.
Vista comes with very comparable software to OS X out of the box, its just not publicized because, quite honestly, nobody uses it or its equivalent iLife app. Vista comes with some better software out of the box (Windows Media Center makes Front Row look like a joke), as well as greater hardware compatibility.
One thing thats actually incredibly ironic is how Vista does NOT need printer/scanner drivers yet OS X, by default, has a couple of gigabytes worth of printer drivers installed and you need to sometimes install more advanced driver sets to take advantage of scanners that work with no drivers in Vista.
And how old was that poll? And how old were most of those results? Every negative story I hear about Vista comes from the time period before and shortly after Vista's launch.
Prove it. Apple throws this downgrading crap around, and so do the Apple fanboys. But you know what? I see no real numbers supporting it. Even if that 30% made up number from a few days ago was true, that still means theres what? 5 to 6 times more people using Vista right now than there are Mac users entirely.
The PC manufacturers that did that offered XP on only the lowest end hardware. HP offered it on some $399 Compaq notebook that had a Celeron and 512MB of RAM. But it still had a DVD writer!
I do like the size. If it actually had hardware that it should have (dedicated graphics) I would have absolutely no problem with it at all.
Not true at all. When I walk in somewhere and I see people sitting with Macs, I smile and laugh. They think they're better than the rest of us.
No reasonably intelligent person is going to be jealous of a Mac because they know that they got the better deal on hardware and they have an OS that is just as stable and more capable than OS X.
As I already proved, thats not true. You still have to go and acquire plenty of 3rd party software to make the Mac "fully functional".
Having driver updates is a very good thing. Nvidia and ATI recently released driver updates that give 3rd party software developers tools and the ability to take advantage of GPUs for just about any task. ATI and nvidia did that for FREE. ANy developer can use it and its available NOW. Apple wants to CHARGE you the user and developer for that functionality in Snow Leopard AND their version of that technology is entirely dependent on their OpenGL support. We all know how bad that is. Theres also the fact that the vast majority of Macs out in the marketplace today do NOT have dedicated GPUs. Their integrated GPUs depend on the CPUs for advanced functions.
The only way you'd need anti-virus software is if you were dumb enough to ignore IE7 (or FF3) telling you that you're downloading malware, ignoring Windows Defender telling you that you're installing and running malware (and telling it not to block it) and ignoring UAC telling you that you need to allow the malware to modify your system.
Are you insane? Vista and Leopard look absolutely nothing alike. Aero Glass is an entirely different looking UI (not to mention the developer previews enabling Aero were around for YEARS before Leopard's updated UI was made available to developers a year ago).
People that try to say that Windows is a ripoff of Mac OS in the UI department really need to leave the late 90s behind and try modern versions of Windows. Windows hasn't looked like Mac OS since Microsoft left Windows 3.11 behind and moved on to Windows 95.
Everything in Leopard is grey. A little too grey if you ask me. Almost to the point of being gloomy and depressing. If you make the menu bar solid, it turns into another depressing grey color.
Everything in Vista is customizable and transparent. The animations are smoother and better. There are live previews for the taskbar and in the alt+tab menu (what happened to dock live previews in Leopard anyway?).
I know a few Mac diehards (who don't post on this forum or other Apple forums because they're ashamed of the Apple forum community) that openly admit that Vista's "Aero" looks MUCH better than Leopard's UI and that the eye candy is all around much better.
Good for you. You make up that 0.01% of people who do use the iLife apps to their fullest. You know you could have gotten freeware equivalents on Windows, right?
Best designed? Sure. If you consider good design on that you have to worry about build quality issues. The MacBook has issues with cracking on the top case thanks to the magnetic latch, discoloring from regular use (yes the problem still exists just not as bad as before), discoloring from heat on the hinge, discoloring on the bottom due to heat, cracking on the bottom due to heat, cracking around the hinge due to heat. The MacBook Pro has build quality issues that can lead to the case bending, denting, scratching, separating, warping from heat, and getting ridiculously hot. The MBP also has known screen issues and motherboard failures caused by heat. The MacBooks have lovely screens that have 24ms response times.
I would hardly call Macs well designed, not even close to best.
mosx, it makes me laugh seeing you spend so much time here and ranting about how much better Vista is than OSX...why do you even have a mac if you hate it so much?
Apple doesnt make computers for everyone, they arent supposed to...
if you like what Apple has to offer, buy it...if you dont, dont...simple
now go away and find some windows forum so you can make love to the other windows fanboys
Apple doesnt make computers for everyone, they arent supposed to...
if you like what Apple has to offer, buy it...if you dont, dont...simple
now go away and find some windows forum so you can make love to the other windows fanboys
jav6454
macrumors Core
You had a good argument until you insulted him, thus going into trolling.
mos x can rant and no one can take that away from him. However, like you said. If he hates Macs so much, why on Earth is he still using one?
I can quote every single application mos x says he uses in Windows and how he doesn't use his MacBook for them. How he never uses iLife or for that matter anyone else. (this fact I want a statistic, and a current one on iLife usage since he says 99,999/100,000 don't use it, well, give me a link or url to an article by a respectable mag or research that shows this)
This is why I am wondering, why the hell hasn't mos x sold his MacBook if his Windows machine does everything he needs?
care to answer mos x?
I agree, and its also funny to see the sheer number of posts by him where he says exactly the same thing 🙂. Its kinda like the Mac vs PC commercials except the PC is speaking out. In the end its all propaganda. How you like a mac depends on what kind of person you are. All i know is that since i got my mac, and when i got my PC, my PC has died twice, requiring a complete reformat. The only problem i've ever had with my mac, are the occasional freeze-up (yes they do happen 😡 ) and one time when i played with root access. 😀
yeah sorry about that last part, i guess i just got annoyed from all that...im over it
Chappers
macrumors 68020
mosx - you asked when the polls and opinions were quoted from - well from March and April 2008 with people hoping (yet again) for a service pack to improve things. Hopefully everyone is happy with its improvement.
As for OEM's selling XP pre-installed as you mentioned HP - here's what they said "We do still offer XP on a select number of our existing consumer notebook, gaming and business products," said a spokesman for HP. "This will continue through the XP end of life date on June 30, 2008."
Are their gaming products - low-end? In fact apparently there is still a loophole that allows XP until Jan 2009
"HP has been offering business desktops, notebooks and workstations with the option to downgrade to Windows XP Pro from Vista since August 2007, and will continue to offer this option on its business systems through at least July 30, 2009," said the HP spokesman.
The point of the iLife apps is that you don't need to go search and downloading to just get on doing stuff - you already have them. and they will work. 0.01% - nice statistic another mosx opinion maybe. The whole iWeb thing is your opinion - people won't use it because its linked to mobile me....your opinion is not evidence.
You also say "Vista comes with very comparable software to OS X out of the box, its just not publicized because, quite honestly, nobody uses it or its equivalent iLife app" - what are these microsoft Vista apps that are comparable.
The Mac is capable out of the box - I'm not sure what you mean by "fully capable" but if you need to edit movies, photos, music, create web pages write scripts, play movies, write and make DVD's then this stuff is already there. So yes you can just start doing stuff. The absolute need for other 3rd party apps are examples of your opinion. Yes there is room for improvement and yes you can download more software but that doesn't mean you can't already do stuff.
I don't care for the coffee shop argument but yet again - you answer is based solely on you opinion and to be honest - it does sound like an inferiority complex when you accuse Mac users of appearing to "feel better than the rest of us".
As for the whole downgrade to XP thing - you wanted proof :- http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/08/21/one-in-three-new-vista-machines-downgraded-to-xp/
And if all of the articles I read on Vista being a resource hog are even half true then it doesn't say much for your "takes advantage of the hardware" argument. More like - takes it round the back of the bicycle shed and spanks it.
As for OEM's selling XP pre-installed as you mentioned HP - here's what they said "We do still offer XP on a select number of our existing consumer notebook, gaming and business products," said a spokesman for HP. "This will continue through the XP end of life date on June 30, 2008."
Are their gaming products - low-end? In fact apparently there is still a loophole that allows XP until Jan 2009
"HP has been offering business desktops, notebooks and workstations with the option to downgrade to Windows XP Pro from Vista since August 2007, and will continue to offer this option on its business systems through at least July 30, 2009," said the HP spokesman.
The point of the iLife apps is that you don't need to go search and downloading to just get on doing stuff - you already have them. and they will work. 0.01% - nice statistic another mosx opinion maybe. The whole iWeb thing is your opinion - people won't use it because its linked to mobile me....your opinion is not evidence.
You also say "Vista comes with very comparable software to OS X out of the box, its just not publicized because, quite honestly, nobody uses it or its equivalent iLife app" - what are these microsoft Vista apps that are comparable.
The Mac is capable out of the box - I'm not sure what you mean by "fully capable" but if you need to edit movies, photos, music, create web pages write scripts, play movies, write and make DVD's then this stuff is already there. So yes you can just start doing stuff. The absolute need for other 3rd party apps are examples of your opinion. Yes there is room for improvement and yes you can download more software but that doesn't mean you can't already do stuff.
I don't care for the coffee shop argument but yet again - you answer is based solely on you opinion and to be honest - it does sound like an inferiority complex when you accuse Mac users of appearing to "feel better than the rest of us".
As for the whole downgrade to XP thing - you wanted proof :- http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/08/21/one-in-three-new-vista-machines-downgraded-to-xp/
And if all of the articles I read on Vista being a resource hog are even half true then it doesn't say much for your "takes advantage of the hardware" argument. More like - takes it round the back of the bicycle shed and spanks it.
Beric
macrumors 68020
I don't know about you guys, but I enjoy mosx's posts. They're the voice of reason amidst a crowd of fanboys who will buy Mac no matter what. Macs aren't the only thing out there, and Apple could really improve. The OS isn't everything. Hardware matters too.
I'm keeping my Macbook, but I'll be buying a Nehalem HP notebook in a year, unless Apple really delivers by then, for a good, competitive price. The price, quality, and features of HP's really outdo Apple. No overheating for one, and dedicated graphics on any machine that's worth something.
The OP simply figured that if he was spending $1300 on a computer, it would have a dedicated graphics card and play games well. I made the same (quite reasonable) assumption a year ago, knowing a lot less about Macs back then. I would have bought a PC now if I had known better. I don't hate my machine, but the excessive heat on menial tasks, as well as poor games and flash player performance are quite bad.
I'm keeping my Macbook, but I'll be buying a Nehalem HP notebook in a year, unless Apple really delivers by then, for a good, competitive price. The price, quality, and features of HP's really outdo Apple. No overheating for one, and dedicated graphics on any machine that's worth something.
The OP simply figured that if he was spending $1300 on a computer, it would have a dedicated graphics card and play games well. I made the same (quite reasonable) assumption a year ago, knowing a lot less about Macs back then. I would have bought a PC now if I had known better. I don't hate my machine, but the excessive heat on menial tasks, as well as poor games and flash player performance are quite bad.
Honestly, why the hell do people even come on here to look for "voices of reasons" ?
It's a Mac forum, do you think we're going to sit here bashing OSX and Apple about all their pitfalls and their inferiority to windows?
I agree Windows hate is excessive on these forums sometimes, but just go on pretty much any PC forums and you will always find the people who say "MACS SUCK" "THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE RIGHT CLICK" blah blah ****ity blah. Do I go on there and scream "FANBOOOYYYS YOU'RE ALL WRONG!" and get defensive when people hate me for it?
Honestly you "Anti-Mac" mac users are like those people who go door to door talking to you about god and how he changed your life. People aren't magically going to flee to windows and pray for mercy from Bill Gates when you tell them that their processors are running at 30% usage as opposed to Vista 0.3% watching a YouTube video? Who the hell honestly cares?
Oh let me guess you care? Yes, well see YOUR needs and expectations do not match the needs and expectations of thousands of other people, so if YOU need more efficient processing by the operating system then YOU should switch and stop bitching about it to people who just use their Macs for simple tasks and could care less about how efficiently their flash is working for them this fine afternoon.
Well how about I throw this at you since you love to go all techy techy with everything.
Are you willing to argue with me that Microsoft's kernel is way safer than the Unix kernel that OSX, Linux distributions and pretty much every web server on the internet uses? If you are, I would be more than happy to ask some real programmers and other I.T people I know, and ask what they think of any possible argument you can come up with. Really, go ahead try! Go look on Wikipedia for your little statistics and Google "How is Windows better than Linux? because I need to look uber-smart on some macforums filled with FANBOYS!!" go on! I know you were going to do it!
Honestly, both operating systems are good, and I personally love both Windows and Mac, but this constant bickering and little stupid arguments in TWO different threads now is ridiculous, and you've made it quite clear what you think of Macs and OSX.
Thank you, and please move over to any Windows forums where you can post this thread and have a BLAST with all your windows buddies and giggle about how oblivious and stupid mac users are. You will end up being cooler than Hana Montana!!!. If you have an actual problem, rather than just complaints and bitching about your Mac and OSX, you're more than welcome to come back and ask us Fanboys to spew our Apple fanboy hym (it's essentially just the words from the 1984 mac ad)
Or maybe 0.01% of us could make you a picture book using iLife about your time on these forums 🙂
It's a Mac forum, do you think we're going to sit here bashing OSX and Apple about all their pitfalls and their inferiority to windows?
I agree Windows hate is excessive on these forums sometimes, but just go on pretty much any PC forums and you will always find the people who say "MACS SUCK" "THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE RIGHT CLICK" blah blah ****ity blah. Do I go on there and scream "FANBOOOYYYS YOU'RE ALL WRONG!" and get defensive when people hate me for it?
Honestly you "Anti-Mac" mac users are like those people who go door to door talking to you about god and how he changed your life. People aren't magically going to flee to windows and pray for mercy from Bill Gates when you tell them that their processors are running at 30% usage as opposed to Vista 0.3% watching a YouTube video? Who the hell honestly cares?
Oh let me guess you care? Yes, well see YOUR needs and expectations do not match the needs and expectations of thousands of other people, so if YOU need more efficient processing by the operating system then YOU should switch and stop bitching about it to people who just use their Macs for simple tasks and could care less about how efficiently their flash is working for them this fine afternoon.
Well how about I throw this at you since you love to go all techy techy with everything.
Are you willing to argue with me that Microsoft's kernel is way safer than the Unix kernel that OSX, Linux distributions and pretty much every web server on the internet uses? If you are, I would be more than happy to ask some real programmers and other I.T people I know, and ask what they think of any possible argument you can come up with. Really, go ahead try! Go look on Wikipedia for your little statistics and Google "How is Windows better than Linux? because I need to look uber-smart on some macforums filled with FANBOYS!!" go on! I know you were going to do it!
Honestly, both operating systems are good, and I personally love both Windows and Mac, but this constant bickering and little stupid arguments in TWO different threads now is ridiculous, and you've made it quite clear what you think of Macs and OSX.
Thank you, and please move over to any Windows forums where you can post this thread and have a BLAST with all your windows buddies and giggle about how oblivious and stupid mac users are. You will end up being cooler than Hana Montana!!!. If you have an actual problem, rather than just complaints and bitching about your Mac and OSX, you're more than welcome to come back and ask us Fanboys to spew our Apple fanboy hym (it's essentially just the words from the 1984 mac ad)
Or maybe 0.01% of us could make you a picture book using iLife about your time on these forums 🙂
hehe, guess what? this is a Mac forum...of course we are gonna love mac and talk mac...
and since this is a mac forum, we dont need windows "fanboys" or whatever to come on here and talk about highly about windows when we DONT want to hear it...i mean, if you really want to talk to people about how windows "takes advantage of the hardware its on" then go to a windows forum and do it there...theres no point doing it here, we are here to talk macs
i have to admit, i do like windows, have been using it for about 13 years...since i was 5, but for ME, mac seems to be the way to go and better for ME and i cannot wait to finally make the switch...it does everything i need it to do, better than my windows computer, everything from video editing, 2D and 3D animation (maya works SO much better on a mac than pc), photo editing, and heck, ive started to like safari so much ive put it on my PC and have been using it as my main browser...
Winter Charm
macrumors 6502a
OK... Guys LET ME GET SOMETHING STRAIGHT HERE!!!
WINDOWS AND MAC BOTH HAVE THIER ADVANTAGES!!!!
Windows Vista:
because of DX10 it has great gaming capabilities... and it allows people to take full advantage of their hardware to run some very nice games.... on the SIDE it does have applications that are somewhat useful... but MOSTLY you must download/get them somehow. Stability is an issue, as of so far, only the 64 Bit Versions of Vista are actually very stable... vista does NOT take full advantage of multiple cores.
Mac OS X:
OS X is mainly built to be a FAST out of the BOX system, where someone can push a power button, and start doing office work in about a minute. its built to take full advantage of your processor to multitask applications that do your office work (NOT for GAMES) - so hardware acceleration isn't REQUIRED. so the other thing is, OS X is MORE stable than windows Vista [EXCEPT the new 64 Bit Edition] - If you are wanting to "game" or do "video editing" then what you need is a windows PC (beware of stability though).
When snow leopard comes out, with grand central, OSX will be able to take full advantage of hardware acceleration.
So looking at the above, THAT Is when i will BUY a Macbook, Use BOOTCAMP, and then Install Vista 64Bit (which will hopefully be supported by Snow Leopard) and have the best of BOTH systems!
i expect about a 1-2 year wait.
Who's With me?? - and NOTE i am NOT bashing EITHER... it would be MUCH better to have BOTH operating system (stability of a mac for schoolwork) and Power of Vista for Gaming.😀
WINDOWS AND MAC BOTH HAVE THIER ADVANTAGES!!!!
Windows Vista:
because of DX10 it has great gaming capabilities... and it allows people to take full advantage of their hardware to run some very nice games.... on the SIDE it does have applications that are somewhat useful... but MOSTLY you must download/get them somehow. Stability is an issue, as of so far, only the 64 Bit Versions of Vista are actually very stable... vista does NOT take full advantage of multiple cores.
Mac OS X:
OS X is mainly built to be a FAST out of the BOX system, where someone can push a power button, and start doing office work in about a minute. its built to take full advantage of your processor to multitask applications that do your office work (NOT for GAMES) - so hardware acceleration isn't REQUIRED. so the other thing is, OS X is MORE stable than windows Vista [EXCEPT the new 64 Bit Edition] - If you are wanting to "game" or do "video editing" then what you need is a windows PC (beware of stability though).
When snow leopard comes out, with grand central, OSX will be able to take full advantage of hardware acceleration.
So looking at the above, THAT Is when i will BUY a Macbook, Use BOOTCAMP, and then Install Vista 64Bit (which will hopefully be supported by Snow Leopard) and have the best of BOTH systems!
i expect about a 1-2 year wait.
Who's With me?? - and NOTE i am NOT bashing EITHER... it would be MUCH better to have BOTH operating system (stability of a mac for schoolwork) and Power of Vista for Gaming.😀
- Status