MacBook Pro 1.4GHz 2019 model faulty battery or feature?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by BLBL, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. BLBL, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019

    BLBL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2018
    #1
    I'm having problem with my just couple weeks old Macbook entry Pro 1.4GHz 2019 model.
    Battery full charge capacity drops when there is high CPU load or similar high power consumption situation.

    Like when I run Cinebench r20 and check full charge capacity with CoconutBattery before and during the test is running, I see that full charge capacity drops from about 5200mAh to 4900mAh during test is running. It goes back up soon after test has been completed.

    Is this normal for this Entry Pro 1.4GHz model, or is my battery faulty?
    I tested the same thing with 2.4GHz Pro and it did not drop capacity during test.

    I'd be glad to hear from other Entry Pro 1.4GHz 2019 owners If they have the same problem with their units?

    Here are simple instructions how to test this.

    Run machine on battery (charger unplugged of course)
    1. Check battery full charge capacity from CoconutBattery before running Cinebench and write it down
    2. Then run CineBench
    3. Wait until test has ran for couple minutes and about where CPU fan is screaming at full speed while test is still running
    4. Run CoconutBattery (while Cinebenench test is still running background) and check what it shows Full Charge Capacity and write it down
    5. After Cinebench test has completed close it and check again full charge capacity with CoconutBattery

    You saw any drop in Full Charge Capacity when Cinebench was running?
    Did it go like 5200 > 4900 > 5200, or did it stay around the same in all three measurements?

    Please list your measured values here.
     
  2. NBAasDOGG macrumors 6502

    NBAasDOGG

    Joined:
    May 27, 2017
    Location:
    Netherlands
    #2
    Same thing here with the 1.4Ghz 2019. Also happens to my 2.3 2018. Nothing to worry about...
     
  3. BLBL, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019

    BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #3
    Glad to hear it could be normal. Could you please list your values during testing this? Was there as much drop as I’m seeing?

    Because I already had opportunity test this with new 2.4 pro and there was practically no drop! Strange why new 1.4 has so big drop.

    Is your unit from c or f factory? Serial number first character show that. Also what manufacturing date? Serial number 4:th and 5:th character shows that.

    Many thanks for your reply.
     
  4. mmark77 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #4
    My bet is Apple's capacitance calculation is just an estimation. Real world battery capacitance test would require knowing the load's exact resistance and current draw.

    My suggestion would be to use your MBP normally for 9-10 months. If you're running into real-world battery issues (2 hour charges, 500+ charge cycles, etc), then take it into Apple for repair. It's still covered by AppleCare and you'll get a brand new battery 10 months from now.

    Good luck.

     
  5. BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #5
    I know but that does not explain why the same issue does not apply to 2.4 model?
    I would expect them all act the same way if it was about estimation issue.

    Also I have been scratching my head wondering about why charge cycle count in my 1.4 increase much faster than actual use. I see increase in about every 80-85% of real total battery use (it should increase only every 100% total use)!

    It would be great if as many as possible 1.4GHz model owners could test their machines so we can see if there are just bad batch of batteries in some units or are they all like that (maybe battery used in this model is weaker than the one in 2.4 model even they are about identical in wattage on paper).
     
  6. mmark77 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #6
    You can run diagnostics here:

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731

    What does your test actually show? What constitutes a pass or fail? What happens if capacity changes by 2? By 5? Is one passing or failing? Unless, you actual pass-fail criteria, this test doesn't tell anyone anything? Look up hardware QA to understand how hardware and devices are checked.

     
  7. BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #7
    Well it show something obvious weakness of the battery (by its design (not made for high loads) or if not that then individual battery weakness) if its full charge capacity drops at 40W load from 5200 > 4900. In 2.4GHz model there was practically no drop at all (was like 5180 to 5160 or so, practically none). I have never seen a good battery do such drop, only weak/faulty or old worn batteries usually do that. But again could be due to design if battery used in this model is not designed for high capacity loads.

    Again if 1.4GHz owners could check their units, we would be wiser about which it is in this model.
    Testing that take only couple minutes. Under 5 minutes total if you need to download those apps first and then run them. :)
     
  8. BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #8
    I did the same test today for older used Pro model with 600 charge cycles, it did similar drop. Also tried it on 2.3 Pro model with only 2 charge cycles (demo unit) but there was no noticeable drop.
     
  9. ghanwani macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    #9
    I don't know how accurate coconut battery is. On my 2017, I could easily see up to a 5% variation in full charge capacity, but I never traced it down to any kind of activity.
     
  10. BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #10
    It is accurate. It shows the same data you can find buried in MacOS own menus. I’d say that just makes the data more simple to understand for most peoples.

    It is normal that when battery is weak in old machines you start to see capacity drops under load but in new machine it is weird.

    I have been trying to find a shop demo 1.4 unit to verify this but at the local shop their demo unit was broken and shipped to service. That does not sound promising, they had it on display just for few days...
     
  11. BLBL, Aug 3, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019

    BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #11
    I just ran this test again.

    Here are my results.

    1. Battery before running Cinebench
    Charge level 45,1%/2333mAh
    Full Charge Capacity 5176mAh

    2. Cinebench running few seconds Coconut show
    Charge level 42,8%/2147mAh
    Full Charge Capacity 5011mAh

    3. Cinenench still running
    Charge level 40,3%/1973mAh
    Full Charge Capacity 4894mAh

    4. Cinebench nearly finished test, but still running
    Charge level 39,1%/1915mAh
    Full Charge Capacity 4894mAh

    5. Cinebench just few seconds ago finished and coconut first update after that
    Charge level 40,6%/2065mAh
    Full Charge Capacity 5090mAh

    6. 1-2 minutes after Cinebench test ended
    Charge level 41,8%/2176mAh
    Full Charge Capacity 5206mAh

    Interesting.. Anyone, any thoughts about that?

    Here are instructions how to run this test procedure. It is very easy and Cinenench test only take 3 minutes to run. So including all from program downloads takes only few minutes total.

    1. You can download Cinebench from author directly at (just select download directly from Maxon):
    https://www.maxon.net/en/products/cinebench-r20-overview/

    2. CoconutBattery from here: https://coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

    3. Just download them and then open Coconut and check full charge capacity and current charge (write down values).

    4. Then run Cinebench (just select run button in Cinebench) and while it is running bring coconut on top to see how values start to change when benchmark is running (values are updated only about once per minute, so it takes a little while to see what happens). Again note values for full charge capacity and current charge and keep taking readings.

    5. After Cinenebench test is completed wait and see how coconut values keep changing after that and write them down. Please post your results.

    I'd like to hear results from as many entry MBP 2019 owner as possible so we can see if there is some problem with battery or is this just a feature?

    Also would be good if those who test this would check and post their unit serial number 1th, 4th and 5th character. Those will just show manufacturing factory and date. In CoconutBattery you can also check battery brand and manufacturing date, that information can be useful, so please post that too.
     
  12. leoshaun macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2019
    #12
    1. Before running cinenech 61.4%
    Current charge: 3147
    Full charge: 5123

    2. minute after running coconut shows 59.2%
    current charge: 2933
    full charge: 4953

    3. test nearly finished 57.9%
    current charge: 2861
    full charge: 4939

    4. straight after finishing 56.8%
    current charge: 2803
    full charge: 4939

    5. few mins after test 57.3%
    current charge: 2909
    full charge: 5079
     
  13. BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #13
    Quite similar results, actually more stable than in mine especially initial battery level drop and capacity drop.
    Maybe worth to try reset SMC and NVRAM, could be just some issue with those.
    How many charge cycles so far? Mine is already at 10 and I started even doing those tests after I had unit almost two weeks, so could explain some of the results.

    What is your battery manufacturing date and brand (look that in Coconutbattery)?
    Also can you remember if unit you returned had the same serial number 1th, 4th and 5th character as your current one?
     
  14. alias99 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    #14
    I have done your test on my 2013 13" MBP and the exact same thing happened which would tell me its entirely normal behavior and there is nothing wrong with your machine.

    Start - 5231 mAh capacity
    Mid 1 - 5100 mAh capacity
    Mid 2 - 5071 mAh capacity
    End - 5245 mAh capacity

    Your machine is fine, just enjoy it. I will do the same when my 1.4 model arrives on Monday to help ease your concerns.
     
  15. BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2018
    #15
    These are good readings for SIX year old battery that has god knows how many charge cycles. I take it that you took these today and not SIX years ago when it was new?
    You don’t expect brand new battery performing any better than used one?
    But yeah, batteries sold these days are far from what they used to be, quality I mean.

    Please post same readings taken from your new machine when you get it.
    It is possible this is normal for entry model.
     
  16. alias99 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    #16
    I posted the results just after I did it. It has a lot of cycles, but the point is it behaves the same way. Gets under load, reports the same loss of capacity and then gets it back.

    I don't think it has anything to do with battery quality, it's just they way they behave and report the numbers.

    Your machine just like mine reports the same capacity before and after the test. What happens in the middle could just be a reporting glitch. But the point is its not loosing capacity.
     
  17. BLBL, Aug 3, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019

    BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #17
    You have got this wrong. Batteries usually do get weaker as they age, their capacity will lower and they will also handle worse high load situations and colder weather conditions. New batteries (at least decent quality) should be very stable. Six years old battery in terms of usable life span for typical li-ion battery is practically near end of its life.

    I know for a fact that for example brand new MBP 2.4 2019 model does not drop full charge capacity during that test practically at all (chance in mAh is only in tens, which is normal fluctuation even when machine is idle doing nothing). I have tested that myself. Nor did many other Pro models I tested. Too bad my local shop did not have 1.4 model on display at that moment (they had it just few days ago when I was there last time but they had to send it to service I undestood).
    I also had opportunity to check some demo unit that had several hundred charge cycles on battery and there was some drop during this test, as can be expected from worn out battery

    Again that being said, it seems battery used in entry MBP is different and maybe there is some logical explanation to this. Maybe due to lower CPU frequency it has been designed for lower loads and battery is selected based on that (so it does not perform so well if load is very high due to optimized for long time low load conditions. That is just my guess, but obviously battery is different than that of about identical sized one used in 2.4 model. 2.4 models has SWD/Sunwoda battery while 1.4 has SMP/Simplo and maybe DSY in F factory based (I'm not sure of that)).
     
  18. alias99 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    #18
    I have got the new machine, full charge capacity drops a bit during cinebench then goes back up.

    Full charge shows as higher than the Design capacity.
     
  19. BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2018
    #19
    How much it drops? From what value before test and what is the lowest value during test? Please do not run it with full battery just when you uplugged charger but let it deplete a bit, preferable under 80-90%.

    What it your unit serial number 1th, 4th and 5th letter? It shows factory code and manufacturing week with those three values.

    It would be great is you could test these. Thanks.
     
  20. alias99 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    #20
    Serial number is C Z 5

    Once the battery goes down a bit I'll re run the test for you and report back.
     
  21. BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #21
    OK, that is very recent productions, made just few days ago. Was it custom build?
    I'm looking forward to hear from your test results soon, I'm really trying to figure out if I should return mine or is this more or lesss the feature with this unit as soon as battery gets a bit worn.
     
  22. alias99 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    #22
    Yes it was a custom build as I wanted 16gb Ram and 512gb SSD. Ordered last week, delivered today.

    I have done the test again, battery level 89% in the menu bar but coconut battery was showing 85%. Not sure why they are reporting different numbers.

    Start - 5170
    Low - 5170
    High - 5177
    Current after the test - 5174

    FYI the first time I ran it, the battery was full hence why it dropped I guess and you asked for it to be lower that 90%.
     
  23. BLBL, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019

    BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 11, 2018
    #23
    Difference in battery percentage is by design how Apple shows battery level. Coconutbattery show actual level. MacOS will report battery 100% up to point where is has lowered to 94% in coconut, so that's why it is important to take readings from Coconut.

    You machine is very recent build and from what I have heard from others with about as recent systems they also did not see drop in full charge capacity during test, so maybe batteries are better, or difference come that they work better first out of the box for a while.

    Can you remember how much it dropped when you battery was full?
    Interesting because I my unit drop is less when battery is full and increase from that when it is lower!

    Also how much battery charge level drops during test and what if difference in the end to the value before test?
    How much total percentage battery charge level drop in test?
     
  24. alias99 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    #24
    Both times it was about the same. roughly 3%.

    FYI, the battery is 29 days old and the machine is 7 days old. According to CocnutBattery anyway.
     
  25. BLBL, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019

    BLBL thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2018
    #25
    Total charge level drop 3%? Does it at any point show more drop during test and then after test return higher?
    Because in mine it does but eventually total is around 3.6% or so. I'm just typing values from tests at different charge level so you can see and compare.

    Your battery is very recent, and yes Coconut show the correct manufacturing dates for the parts.

    Is you battery SMP/Simplo or DSY?

    From the information this far I've seen is that maybe older entry MBP machines may suffer from shut downs when battery level lower (like 30%), a bit newer. like mine, may have this capacity loss under load, and those very recent build (from second half of the 2019 so practically straight out of the oven) show practically no drop. But again very limited information. So it would be interesting to hear from other entry MBP owners too about what results they get?

    Anyway I would be interesting to hear, if this is just something right out of the box and the drops after few charges, or are the batteries better quality now.
     

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