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Macbook Pro 15inch lasting 8 years?
- Thread starter 12aabdelaal
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Here's a way of looking at it...
New technologies can be divided into the really innovative stuff, and the faster, better, cheaper versions of what came before.
Intel uses a tick tock method for product engineering-- Tick: Die Shrink. Tock: New Architecture. Other companies may have similar philosophies, and adopt them out of sync with Intel. You''l just have to judge whether it's better to be a revolutionary by Intel's standards or a revolutionary by Apple's standards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock
If you plan on keeping a computer for a long time, new stuff is better than more speed. Some of that new stuff will be relied upon by Apple in the future. (Time Machine made Dual Cores a necessity, everyone adopted Shaders after a certain point, some stuff is a lot more pleasant with a SSD, etc etc. To keep a machine health into its fifth or sixth year, it's nice to have revolutionary new features before Apple decides how to exploit them...)
So if I was looking into buying a new computer, and I could wait (and judging my shiny new mac, I couldn't...), the following things might be of interest
Thunderbolt 3
USB 3.1 revision 2/USB-C
Skylake
DirectX 12 Graphics enhancements
New technologies can be divided into the really innovative stuff, and the faster, better, cheaper versions of what came before.
Intel uses a tick tock method for product engineering-- Tick: Die Shrink. Tock: New Architecture. Other companies may have similar philosophies, and adopt them out of sync with Intel. You''l just have to judge whether it's better to be a revolutionary by Intel's standards or a revolutionary by Apple's standards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock
If you plan on keeping a computer for a long time, new stuff is better than more speed. Some of that new stuff will be relied upon by Apple in the future. (Time Machine made Dual Cores a necessity, everyone adopted Shaders after a certain point, some stuff is a lot more pleasant with a SSD, etc etc. To keep a machine health into its fifth or sixth year, it's nice to have revolutionary new features before Apple decides how to exploit them...)
So if I was looking into buying a new computer, and I could wait (and judging my shiny new mac, I couldn't...), the following things might be of interest
Thunderbolt 3
USB 3.1 revision 2/USB-C
Skylake
DirectX 12 Graphics enhancements
I'm curious - with the current rMBP 15 config - would you upgrade to include the dGPU?
For my usage the benefit of the AMD 370 will be limited - it's not much more powerful than integrated GPU. In the longer run - with dGPU you end up with more noise, more heat, more likely chip breakdown.
For my usage the benefit of the AMD 370 will be limited - it's not much more powerful than integrated GPU. In the longer run - with dGPU you end up with more noise, more heat, more likely chip breakdown.
A reasonably techy review with benchmarks is here.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/0...e-2015-15-inch-retina-macbook-pro-reviewed/1/
If I was buying for the next eight years, that would put me off. Anyway, a lot of future tech is mentioned.
Also, if you want to drive a 5K display, you'll want the m370 model.
Wait until Skylake!
I'm using my 2008 MBP 15" on a daily basis. I'm doing PS, AI, INDD etc. It's a bit slow but works fine. Battery doesn't work anymore, but who cares.
Currently I'm editing some HD videos with Premiere. But that's almost impossible since it's too slow...
I'm using my 2008 MBP 15" on a daily basis. I'm doing PS, AI, INDD etc. It's a bit slow but works fine. Battery doesn't work anymore, but who cares.
Currently I'm editing some HD videos with Premiere. But that's almost impossible since it's too slow...
The M370X is actually significantly more powerful than the Iris Pro when it comes to games and OpenCL tasks.
More noise and heat is largely debunked if you're working on intensive workloads. If there is no dGPU, all tasks are concentrated on the CPU, causing it to heat up faster and throttle quicker. With the dGPU around, tasks can be delegated between the CPU and the dGPU, so overall heat dissipation is better and the CPU doesn't throttle as fast.
For your strategy - get one with an integrated graphics chip, additional graphics chips have been notorious for having problems. Max out memory and storage.
However why not buy something half the price every 4 years. I would consider this much better use of your money and protects you from the inevitable change of ports, standards and operating system changes.
We still have an original 15 inch MBP here, not quite maxed out and with an SSD in it now, it is fine, but doesn't run the most modern OS and runs very hot on your lap. The newer machine cannot be upgraded as that machine could. You will be stuck with everything you purchase.
I agree, unless you can monetize the difference, and or the full cost of the system. Apple upgrades are notoriously expensive with far greater margins on Apple`s side.
Q-6
I've run an iBook 500 Mhz G3-- made obsolete by the compositing feature in Quartz Extreme.
a Powermac G4 1.25 MDD--made obsolete by the transparency effects in Core Image, until I switched out the graphics card for a Radeon 9600 (which I might have been able to get with the original machine.) I should have gotten a refurb Powermac G5, because my G4 ended up being made obsolete with the introduction of Time Machine, which required more than one core.
an imac 9,1. Whoohoo Games on a nVidia 9400m. Wrong. Shortly after the machine was bought, most games were moving from DirectX 7 style graphics to Direct X 9 style graphics, which meant that after a while, I gamed at lower and lower resolutions. The thing that killed my iMac in terms of usability, once I put aside games, was storage speed. About two three years in, disclaimer notices started appearing. "Does not support nVidia 9400m or intel HD graphics"
and then, my final machine, a base late 2014 imac retina.
I'm not sure what buying decision will bite me in the ass first.
Not going for the i7
Not going for the pure SSD
Not going for the m295
Or not going for the currently unobtainable tech that's coming with skylake.
I'm thinking it's skylake. But I could be wrong.
Sometime within the next couple of years, OpenCL could become big. Or it could fade away. If it emerges as a necessity, are you going to be satisfied with how an Iris Pro performs?
a Powermac G4 1.25 MDD--made obsolete by the transparency effects in Core Image, until I switched out the graphics card for a Radeon 9600 (which I might have been able to get with the original machine.) I should have gotten a refurb Powermac G5, because my G4 ended up being made obsolete with the introduction of Time Machine, which required more than one core.
an imac 9,1. Whoohoo Games on a nVidia 9400m. Wrong. Shortly after the machine was bought, most games were moving from DirectX 7 style graphics to Direct X 9 style graphics, which meant that after a while, I gamed at lower and lower resolutions. The thing that killed my iMac in terms of usability, once I put aside games, was storage speed. About two three years in, disclaimer notices started appearing. "Does not support nVidia 9400m or intel HD graphics"
and then, my final machine, a base late 2014 imac retina.
I'm not sure what buying decision will bite me in the ass first.
Not going for the i7
Not going for the pure SSD
Not going for the m295
Or not going for the currently unobtainable tech that's coming with skylake.
I'm thinking it's skylake. But I could be wrong.
Sometime within the next couple of years, OpenCL could become big. Or it could fade away. If it emerges as a necessity, are you going to be satisfied with how an Iris Pro performs?
I maxed out to mid-2015 2.8GHz the only benefit was that I discovered the largest configuration was even quicker to show and reveal the bad cooling that it performs. First day I owned it: 85-95c in a game of StarCraft 2 on lowest detail. Also ~85c browsing 100 pictures in quick look.
Instead buy a macbook air. It will last. As it is like 30c cooler in general and not overheating itself like a pro retina does even without gaming!
What did you expect? Games would obviously heat up a system. Hell, even my non-retina 27" (GTX 780M) can run around 85ºC when gaming with Battlefield 4.
In fact, 85-95ºC is pretty normal if you're doing resource heavy tasks like gaming or video editing. Taking up resources would obviously generate more heat.
30ºC cooler in general? Where did you pull that figure out from, from your arse? My 13" rMBP idles at 47-50ºC (i.e. doing general tasks like Safari, Spotify and Pages), and my friend's Air idles at around 2-3ºC lower at best.
Is that a haswell generation? All haswells run ridicolously hot even in desktops they peak high .. That only contributes to the problem that haswell was in general alot warmer and that Apple apparently doesn't do cooling for CPU tasks.
Both my 13" rMBP and my friend's Air are Haswell.
If anything, I don't think you did your research. Haswell was all about power efficiency, and it generally runs cooler than Ivy Bridge predecessors.
I can attest to that with two 15" rMBPs (one Ivy Bridge and one Haswell). The Haswell rMBP ran about 5-6ºC cooler in general compared to the Ivy Bridge, and lasted about 30-60 minutes longer on battery.
Of course there is cooling for general tasks. The fans are always spinning all the time even when idle (at low speeds like 1300rpm on the 13" rMBP), and are too quiet to be heard. Apple generally programs the EFI and the SMC not to speed the fans up until it's above 70ºC. Besides, the CPUs are safe until about 100ºC.
Both were running hot. It goes without saying that the Air with the ultrabook processor is cooler - in any way ... I hope your 13" will last.
I'll tell you what's hot for a processor as someone who did a minor in electrical engineering - anything below 70ºC is considered as pretty cold, while 80-85ºC is warm, while 90ºC and above is borderline hot.
Here's a graph of my 15" Haswell rMBP when doing general tasks - Safari, Spotify, Pages and a PDF open in Preview.
Attachments
And haswell max is 100c so when it peaks at 95-97c all the time what essentially is happening is throttling and then you could just as well buy a less powerful model instead of watching frequencies go down all the time and force cooling!
Nope, it wasn't throttling. The TJMax is 105ºC.
No force cooling was needed. The fans automatically ramped up to 6200rpm and the frequencies were maintained at around 2.8-3.2GHz with all 4 cores and 8 threads active. If it dropped below 2.8GHz, then that's throttling. But it didn't happen.
So instead you kept burning yourself on the keyboard like me? It happended on mid-2015 2.8GHz at around ~95c .. Unbearable, and unacceptable !
Keyboard was so hot I could not press W and not expect a reaction from my fingers getting burned .. Touch the middle part between the keyboard and screen if you cannot feel it in the keyboard - it's scolding hot.
It was scolding hot yes. Even hotter than my older late-2013 2.5GHz. I guess 300MHz makes a difference .. But for a new computer at that price: Forget it! I will wait for a new model with Skylake, a new case .. I won't support that electrical kettle that is the Retina Macbook Pro - still suffering 2015 since 2009. It really is stupid. The case even isn't that slim and there are other laptops with the same processor AND slim case AND 4K displays that maintains a decent temperature!
Ok I will be happy to slap a trout at your official Apple face. I guess you're with them since you can't keep arguing against bad design decisions .. 10c lower wouldn't really be that hard if it wasn't for some hipster case designer that want to flash slim sd-card slot like cooling at the coffee shop using only Safari and iTunes - accepting that he can't use anything Apple hasn't explicitly made to gear it towards their ridicolous cooling. Not sustainable in any way.
Just like 97c for quick look is not acceptable. I reported the problem I'm glad they finally found out now that they rush software and models so much they even added new colors so theres something for you, me and the little girl!