MacBook Pro A1706 : stay away from it and all soldered on Logic board SSD

[ab22]

I'm in the UK, but I believe that most of Europe has 'hidden defect' laws

Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe

How to claim the 2-year guarantee for EU purchases, get a repair, replacement or refund, how to cancel orders made outside shops (online, by phone, mail order).

europa.eu

https://images.apple.com/es/legal/statutory-warranty/Spain_Statutory_Warranty.pdf

I'd be telling Apple that I bought a premium quality product from a reputable company; took good care of it; & yet it failed after 2 1/2 years - surely there must have been a hidden defect. Of course, it's up to the consumer to prove that : but here anyway, an expensive, 'quality' item from Apple is expected to last more than a couple of years if looked after, & Apple know that.


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translated from the above:
...
4. The action to claim compliance with the provisions of chapter II of this title will prescribe three years from the delivery of the product.

5. The consumer and user must inform the seller of the lack of conformity within two months since he had knowledge of her...

 

[darkmatter343]

@darkmatter343 ok so they replace the complete board and all components are new.
What they do with the old logic board? I don't think they will give it to you. So they are basically stealing the good components from you I believe that they are repairing the board and sell/use again in refurbished...
So this is a scam basically as this board is yours you paid for it and they are selling it again

If they do scrap the part, then thats bullsh..t as is not really environment friendly to generate so much ewaste just bcs of one failed IC or whatever.

If the scrap is true, their statement that missing chargers are bcs of saving mother earth is just excuse to generate profit as the scraping of the parts generate much more ewaste imo

Apple does not even let authorized 3rd party service centers keep the defective parts, and this has always been the case, not just today. It's not so Apple can fix the part and double dip on the resale of the defective part, it's because they don't want extra parts floating around on the aftermarket sale. They also don't want anyone to be able to buy a replacement mainboard off ebay and do the repair themselves, it's all very tightly controlled. As far as I know, you have to be mad certified to even be authorized to order replacement parts from Apple, and they are very strict with making sure the defective parts are returned to ensure the defective part wasn't falsified defective, and or repaired and then sold on ebay etc...
Call it how you will, a waste, bs... but Apple has always operated this way, everything is tightly controlled in the supply chain, including factory OEM repair parts.

First , thank you for your extensive input . You are certainly right and the cost to repair could be justified in the way you present it . However , the 760 euro cost is to me excessive and is economically unjustifiable. My A1706 laptop with standard 256gb/8ram configuration with 32 months of use ( even in its prestine condition and very low battery cycle count ) is not worth much more on the second hand market than the repair cost . As mentioned before the idea was to buy a new one in a couple of months and pass this one on to my teenage son : he inherited my previous MacBooks , IMac and IPhones. Apart from broken screens and cracked laptop trackpad because he sat on it ; none of these have stopped working even in his destructive hands . To conclude all this : I have two mayor problems with Apple : one is the total absence of any explanation of what and why this Logic board /SSD failure happened and secondly the elevated cost and total lack of even the slightest consideration that the laptop is only 8 months over warranty and no commercial gesture towards repair or replacement is offered . This is obviously Apple’s commercial policy and they are free to apply whichever they want . Somehow I just can’t swallow it . My reaction is perhaps more emotional then purely economical ; to me it is like the friend you always blindly trusted and you find out he has betrayed you . Trust is gone . Even if I buy a new MacBook tomorrow, I will dread every start up and wonder if that flashing carpet will appear... could be a clever move from Apple to make me buy a new one every 23 months and not 36/40 as I used to . No , Apple I still like to make my own little decisions . Programmed obsolescence will be the next subject?

Ok, I'm probably going to play the devils advocate a bit, but I'll try to answer some of what you mentioned.

Apple can't explain to you what exactly happened to the SSD for a few reasons. First, even their genius bar techs as well service technicians are not that knowledgeable to break down exactly what happened inside the SSD. There are so many tiny components to the SSD, it could have been any number of things that went belly up, and unless you're Luis Rossmann you're not going to get the answer you're looking for, nor is anyone *you can actually talk to* authorized to explain what happened, again, assuming they even had the equipment to find out. (Which they don't)

So, with the warranty issue... here's the thing. From my 2 decades in the PC repair industry, I can tell you if any one company has sympathy, it's Apple. Dell, Lenovo, HP, Asus, they would be the last companies to give you a break if you're out of the 1 year warranty period. Didn't buy our Pro Support warranty... too bad for you they'd say. Now... this isn't to say Apple is the exception, or the saving grace, because they are not, clearly in your case.
All companies, be it Samsung, Apple, Dell, etc... they are out to make a profit. Period. They want to charge you upfront for upgrades that you can't do yourself later on, and they want to sell you warranties, because a large majority of people who do buy the warranties... never have to use them, so it's 100% profit for them. Exceptions and breaks are given, but it's rare.

My sister bought an ipod in the Netherlands, and then dropped it well after the 1 year warranty had expried. On a visit to Canada, she asked me if I could drop into the Apple store and talk to the genius bar folks. Apple replaced it right there with a brand new one. Out of warranty, accidental damage, and bought in a completely different country.
I've heard countless stories from people who had ongoing issues and were given full refunds outside of the 1 year, or had parts replaced and repair costs waved. Obviously, it would be awesome if Apple did this every time, and treated all customers the same, but they want to sell you the warranty, and can't make exceptions for everyone.

That all said, I do get your frustration, anyone would be mad upset if a laptop that was less than 2 years old died, but that's just the unfortunately nature of electronics. Always buy the Apple Care on Macbooks. Always. I know... I know... we shouldn't have too because we pay so damn much for the devices but it's thousands of miniature electronic components that make up the motherboard and Apple nor Samsung nor Dell have control over if one of those components had a bad production run in the factory, and so one tiny resistor wasn't made to spec, and took out your SSD. But yes, It sucks, I get it.

Anyways, personally, I think Apple should have sliced that repair cost in half for you, 760 euros works out to over $1000 Canadian and even I would be upset but I just have a little more understanding since I know how stuff is made, and what's entailed in the repair. I wouldn't give up just yet... I would try to visit another Apple Store, or go back to the same one and speak to someone different, hopefully a manager, and even if you have to tell them a sob story, just ask them for a break on the repair cost. If you're polite, and easy to deal with, most companys will go a little extra way for you. Good luck!

 

[Trimapa]

Apple does not even let authorized 3rd party service centers keep the defective parts, and this has always been the case, not just today. It's not so Apple can fix the part and double dip on the resale of the defective part, it's because they don't want extra parts floating around on the aftermarket sale. They also don't want anyone to be able to buy a replacement mainboard off ebay and do the repair themselves, it's all very tightly controlled. As far as I know, you have to be mad certified to even be authorized to order replacement parts from Apple, and they are very strict with making sure the defective parts are returned to ensure the defective part wasn't falsified defective, and or repaired and then sold on ebay etc...
Call it how you will, a waste, bs... but Apple has always operated this way, everything is tightly controlled in the supply chain, including factory OEM repair parts.


Ok, I'm probably going to play the devils advocate a bit, but I'll try to answer some of what you mentioned.

Apple can't explain to you what exactly happened to the SSD for a few reasons. First, even their genius bar techs as well service technicians are not that knowledgeable to break down exactly what happened inside the SSD. There are so many tiny components to the SSD, it could have been any number of things that went belly up, and unless you're Luis Rossmann you're not going to get the answer you're looking for, nor is anyone *you can actually talk to* authorized to explain what happened, again, assuming they even had the equipment to find out. (Which they don't)

So, with the warranty issue... here's the thing. From my 2 decades in the PC repair industry, I can tell you if any one company has sympathy, it's Apple. Dell, Lenovo, HP, Asus, they would be the last companies to give you a break if you're out of the 1 year warranty period. Didn't buy our Pro Support warranty... too bad for you they'd say. Now... this isn't to say Apple is the exception, or the saving grace, because they are not, clearly in your case.
All companies, be it Samsung, Apple, Dell, etc... they are out to make a profit. Period. They want to charge you upfront for upgrades that you can't do yourself later on, and they want to sell you warranties, because a large majority of people who do buy the warranties... never have to use them, so it's 100% profit for them. Exceptions and breaks are given, but it's rare.

My sister bought an ipod in the Netherlands, and then dropped it well after the 1 year warranty had expried. On a visit to Canada, she asked me if I could drop into the Apple store and talk to the genius bar folks. Apple replaced it right there with a brand new one. Out of warranty, accidental damage, and bought in a completely different country.
I've heard countless stories from people who had ongoing issues and were given full refunds outside of the 1 year, or had parts replaced and repair costs waved. Obviously, it would be awesome if Apple did this every time, and treated all customers the same, but they want to sell you the warranty, and can't make exceptions for everyone.

That all said, I do get your frustration, anyone would be mad upset if a laptop that was less than 2 years old died, but that's just the unfortunately nature of electronics. Always buy the Apple Care on Macbooks. Always. I know... I know... we shouldn't have too because we pay so damn much for the devices but it's thousands of miniature electronic components that make up the motherboard and Apple nor Samsung nor Dell have control over if one of those components had a bad production run in the factory, and so one tiny resistor wasn't made to spec, and took out your SSD. But yes, It sucks, I get it.

Anyways, personally, I think Apple should have sliced that repair cost in half for you, 760 euros works out to over $1000 Canadian and even I would be upset but I just have a little more understanding since I know how stuff is made, and what's entailed in the repair. I wouldn't give up just yet... I would try to visit another Apple Store, or go back to the same one and speak to someone different, hopefully a manager, and even if you have to tell them a sob story, just ask them for a break on the repair cost. If you're polite, and easy to deal with, most companys will go a little extra way for you. Good luck!

Again thank you for the input,
Of course Apple can not roll over on it’s back to anyone complaining about repair bills that are out of warranty periode . Each person is convinced that their case is more justifiable than the next guy . I’m obviously one of them , again it is aside de premature death of my MacBook , most probably the attitude and replies I got from Apple staff that disappointed me ; Not even something along the lines of “ we shall forward your case to a supervisor who may decide on some commercial gesture towards a new unit “ given my track record with them . I know the official blablablabla that each customer is a valued one regardless the amount they buy of us ... sure , pigs may fly .
I want to talk or go to another Apple Genuis Bar , but there are none in this region : There are only 11 Apple stores in Spain ,mainly concentrated in and around Madrid and Barcelona . Here is Andalusia which is actually the most extensive region in Spain, Marbella is the only one . Next one nearest to me is Murcia at around 400 km. Which for US standards my be close ... not in Europe it isn’t. Add to that the Covid19 travel restrictions and I’m getting nowhere very fast with that idea . Plenty of authorised dealer but I have done that already and paid 60 Euro just for the initial estimate and fat chance they will cover anything out of their pocket for mother Apple . All this comforts me in the idea to try another manufacturer even I’m very comfortable using OSX and haven’t really used a windows based machine or any other for nearly 2 decades now . So be it . Looks like I will have to visit a well known large electronics outlet tomorrow and buy a new laptop. They have an Apple section there too , will try to stay well clear from it .

 

[clueless88]

Some of the US credit card companies will offer an extended warranty on products purchased with their card--usually they will add an additional year (some 2) of warranty if the original warranty was 5 years or less. Not sure if the OP paid for the MBP with a credit card, and also not sure if credit card companies in other countries offer this free service.

The OP may want to check their credit card company's website to see if the extended warranty benefit is offered, if so, follow the directions and file a claim with the credit card company. If offered, the credit card company will take the information, then will return with a decision--if approved they will direct the purchaser to contact a repair company.

Hope this helps, and hope this is relevant overseas.

 

[Trimapa]

Some of the US credit card companies will offer an extended warranty on products purchased with their card--usually they will add an additional year (some 2) of warranty if the original warranty was 5 years or less. Not sure if the OP paid for the MBP with a credit card, and also not sure if credit card companies in other countries offer this free service.

The OP may want to check their credit card company's website to see if the extended warranty benefit is offered, if so, follow the directions and file a claim with the credit card company. If offered, the credit card company will take the information, then will return with a decision--if approved they will direct the purchaser to contact a repair company.

Hope this helps, and hope this is relevant overseas.

I’m aware that some CC offer extra insurance. Recently I opened an online bank account with N26 and took out their Metal card plan which does offer extra insurance on items bought with that card. In this particular case I bought that MBP online and paid using a virtual debit card issued by my Spanish bank account . No extra insurance is offered with that , let alone beyond the statuary 2 year warranty we get in the EU . The funny thing is that I now remember that during my first conversation with Apple technical support person suggested to me that as it was out of warranty to look into my house insurance policy and attempt to ( falsely ) claim retribution through them . Cheeky no ? I wonder if that was on his personal initiative or in the Apple training manual ? This guy encouraged me to commit insurance fraud .. they probably record conversations, shame we don’t get the copies of these .

 

[Trimapa]

Looks like I’m going for the new version Dell XPS 13 . Just shopping around the net to find the best price ( might wait what Black Friday/ cyber Monday may bring.

 

[darkmatter343]

Looks like I’m going for the new version Dell XPS 13 . Just shopping around the net to find the best price ( might wait what Black Friday/ cyber Monday may bring.

I'm not really bias towards Apple products, nor do I favour anyone PC brand over the next... but that said yes, there are some really, REALLY, nice PC laptops out there if you don't mind using Windows. I use PC's all day at work, which is why I choose to use Apple (mostly) at home.
I've owned a Dell XPS 13, (the 9380 I believe) and it was a pretty sweet laptop. The only issue with Dell seems to be QC issues, they vary from unit to unit. My favourite windows laptop would have to be the Lenovo X1 Carbon, if you've never typed on a recent Thinkpad keyboard... Lenovo knows how make a damn good keyboard. If you are looking into PC land, definitely consider the XPS line or the Lenovo Thinkpads, especially the X1 line. Also, I think on Dec 10th, Lenovo is releasing the X1 Nano, a 13" laptop in a 12" footprint, with a 16:10 display (so same as Apple and the XPS).

I'm really surprised Apple isn't moving an inch for you, I seem to always have pretty good luck with them. This past Saturday I had to drop into the Apple Store in Toronto to exchange something. I was told because they are working on appointments only, I had to reserve a time and come back tomorrow or the next day. I pleaded but the guy said he couldn't make exceptions. I politely asked him if he could please talk to his manager, explain I knew exactly what I wanted in exchange, and he agreed to, surprisingly. He came back a few minutes later and said it wasn't an issue, they'd see me immediately.

So I don't know if it's just your location, but normally I find Apple to be very accommodating. Like I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't give up just yet, that's an expensive laptop, and even though it's from 2018, I would talk to the Store manager, and let them know you are just asking for some kind of reduction in repair cost.

 

[Trimapa]

I'm not really bias towards Apple products, nor do I favour anyone PC brand over the next... but that said yes, there are some really, REALLY, nice PC laptops out there if you don't mind using Windows. I use PC's all day at work, which is why I choose to use Apple (mostly) at home.
I've owned a Dell XPS 13, (the 9380 I believe) and it was a pretty sweet laptop. The only issue with Dell seems to be QC issues, they vary from unit to unit. My favourite windows laptop would have to be the Lenovo X1 Carbon, if you've never typed on a recent Thinkpad keyboard... Lenovo knows how make a damn good keyboard. If you are looking into PC land, definitely consider the XPS line or the Lenovo Thinkpads, especially the X1 line. Also, I think on Dec 10th, Lenovo is releasing the X1 Nano, a 13" laptop in a 12" footprint, with a 16:10 display (so same as Apple and the XPS).

I'm really surprised Apple isn't moving an inch for you, I seem to always have pretty good luck with them. This past Saturday I had to drop into the Apple Store in Toronto to exchange something. I was told because they are working on appointments only, I had to reserve a time and come back tomorrow or the next day. I pleaded but the guy said he couldn't make exceptions. I politely asked him if he could please talk to his manager, explain I knew exactly what I wanted in exchange, and he agreed to, surprisingly. He came back a few minutes later and said it wasn't an issue, they'd see me immediately.

So I don't know if it's just your location, but normally I find Apple to be very accommodating. Like I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't give up just yet, that's an expensive laptop, and even though it's from 2018, I would talk to the Store manager, and let them know you are just asking for some kind of reduction in repair cost.

Happy to here that you are having more luck dealing with Apple , I suppose, although I only spent 6 days of my life in Canada ( Vancouver) and that was for the wedding of a South African friend in 1988 , that Canada has similar business approaches as the US . As mentioned before , Europe approaches customer service rather differently . I shall admit that I’m not looking forward having to get used to windows again . Especially as I still will be using an IMac at home and again iMac and a MBP A1898 in the office . The wife just bought a 2020 Air about 6 months ago .
I will call Apple tomorrow, as I just found out that my youngest tried to download the Beta version of Big Sur a couple of weeks ago on the IMac at home . As he does not have the Apple ID / password for it he then tried it on my now “ dead “ MacBook. He is sure that it did download , but ir wouldn’t install . Which is true as I never saw Big Sur on my “ dead “ MBP. He told me this now as he will not download it on his now he read that it may freeze up his MBP ( my old 2015 MPB) I do know , as I still don’t know what went wrong with my MBP , I start wondering if the attempted Beta version of Big Sur has nothing to do with it . Surely even if so , I have no way of proving this and doubt Apple will own up to this . Let’s see if there will be cases of more recent MBP / IMac ‘à that go belly up by installing Big Sur
.

 

[Trimapa]

A college of mine is going to give me the name and contact of a tech repair company in Barcelona that specialises in Apple repair . If the repair cost is reasonable, I may have it done and give it to my son .

 

[JamesTheMac]

If you are in Europe, consumer law protects you against such faults. Hence why Apple is not allowed any more to sell AppleCare in the EU.

 

[darkmatter343]

I just want to give you a prime example of why I do think Apple has amazing service. Again, I'm not saying this happens in every case, but clearly they should have helped you out more.

Yesterday I dropped into the Apple store to exchange my MacBook Pro M1 that I just received. I wanted the M1 Air 256gb model instead. my Toronto Apple store was out of stock of the 256gb version, so I opted to pay the extra for the 512gb version, but that's fine since it had the full 8core GPU. Since there was a difference in $, I wanted to check the receipt to make sure it processed ok. Never came, but the Apple guy said it was probably just delayed.

Well, about 1hr later, I still hadn't received it, so I called the Apple store and the manager asked for my new MB Air serial number so he could pull it up. I pull the Air out of the bag and wtf, it was the 512gb i5 version! I never checked at the store because I specifically told the guy I wanted the M1 and I put the MB right away into my bag. Anyways, the manager told me to drop by this morning right when they opened and he was pretty apologetic. No worries...

So this morning I get to the Apple Store and the lineup is 50 strong already since Toronto is going back into full lockdown. Thankfully they took me in right away. And here is where they went above. Not only did they give me the 512gb M1 version, they refunded me over $200 so that I was only charged for the 256gb version to make up for the mistake. I would have been happy with the pure exchange but to refund me the difference and only charge me for the 256gb version is pretty awesome.

Anyways, it would be nice if this happened all the time to everyone, but my point is, from all my dealings with Apple they have always gone above and beyond. So I would definitely keep trying. Best of luck.

 

[Trimapa]

I just want to give you a prime example of why I do think Apple has amazing service. Again, I'm not saying this happens in every case, but clearly they should have helped you out more.

Yesterday I dropped into the Apple store to exchange my MacBook Pro M1 that I just received. I wanted the M1 Air 256gb model instead. my Toronto Apple store was out of stock of the 256gb version, so I opted to pay the extra for the 512gb version, but that's fine since it had the full 8core GPU. Since there was a difference in $, I wanted to check the receipt to make sure it processed ok. Never came, but the Apple guy said it was probably just delayed.

Well, about 1hr later, I still hadn't received it, so I called the Apple store and the manager asked for my new MB Air serial number so he could pull it up. I pull the Air out of the bag and wtf, it was the 512gb i5 version! I never checked at the store because I specifically told the guy I wanted the M1 and I put the MB right away into my bag. Anyways, the manager told me to drop by this morning right when they opened and he was pretty apologetic. No worries...

So this morning I get to the Apple Store and the lineup is 50 strong already since Toronto is going back into full lockdown. Thankfully they took me in right away. And here is where they went above. Not only did they give me the 512gb M1 version, they refunded me over $200 so that I was only charged for the 256gb version to make up for the mistake. I would have been happy with the pure exchange but to refund me the difference and only charge me for the 256gb version is pretty awesome.

Anyways, it would be nice if this happened all the time to everyone, but my point is, from all my dealings with Apple they have always gone above and beyond. So I would definitely keep trying. Best of luck.

Well good on you !
This story comforts me in the way that I now realise that the answer “ you were obviously unlucky “ I got from the tech genius who attended me is so relevant after all .It would indeed seem that we should take our “ personal luck coefficient “ in the equation when considering buying an Apple product.
RIP Mr. Jobs

 

[MayaTlab]

I just want to give you a prime example of why I do think Apple has amazing service.

I think that there's a pretty large difference in circumstances between your story and the OP's situation. I also have had a pretty good experience with Apple's sales staff when I had several times to exchange brand new MacBooks for various screen defects until landing on a decent one.

But the OP's situation is about design for repairability at low cost. Apple decided that it was a good idea for them to soldier the SSD to the board, and that means SSD failure = board replacement which is very costly.
Lately Apple products have increasingly moved in the direction of being unrepairable for a cost that's in proportion to the actual damage and that's likely to aggravate a lot of users. Just look at the HomePod Mini : broke the cable ? Well you'll have to replace the entire HomePod Mini (which is an environmental waste BTW). For no good reason since it's probably very easy to design a plug system for that cable with very little impact on design or manufacturing cost.
For a device like a Mac with a rather simple layout and no water resistance rating I find it rather cretinous and irrational to continue moving in that direction. Particularly for the SSD, which can still reach very high transfer speeds without being soldered on anyway and doesn't take up that much space (if it's soldiered to the board it also means that it's a lot more difficult to keep your data in case of a board failure BTW).
So that's the main problem with electronics repair bills today : proportion of the repair bill to the actual damage because of a lack of design for repairability at a proportional cost. From a legal standpoint BTW that's probably where legislation is going to hit in the following decade.

 

[Trimapa]

I think that there's a pretty large difference in circumstances between your story and the OP's situation. I also have had a pretty good experience with Apple's sales staff when I had several times to exchange brand new MacBooks for various screen defects until landing on a decent one.

But the OP's situation is about design for repairability at low cost. Apple decided that it was a good idea for them to soldier the SSD to the board, and that means SSD failure = board replacement which is very costly.
Lately Apple products have increasingly moved in the direction of being unrepairable for a cost that's in proportion to the actual damage and that's likely to aggravate a lot of users. Just look at the HomePod Mini : broke the cable ? Well you'll have to replace the entire HomePod Mini (which is an environmental waste BTW). For no good reason since it's probably very easy to design a plug system for that cable with very little impact on design or manufacturing cost.
For a device like a Mac with a rather simple layout and no water resistance rating I find it rather cretinous and irrational to continue moving in that direction. Particularly for the SSD, which can still reach very high transfer speeds without being soldered on anyway and doesn't take up that much space (if it's soldiered to the board it also means that it's a lot more difficult to keep your data in case of a board failure BTW).
So that's the main problem with electronics repair bills today : proportion of the repair bill to the actual damage because of a lack of design for repairability at a proportional cost. From a legal standpoint BTW that's probably where legislation is going to hit in the following decade.

I couldn’t agree more .

 

[darkmatter343]

I think that there's a pretty large difference in circumstances between your story and the OP's situation. I also have had a pretty good experience with Apple's sales staff when I had several times to exchange brand new MacBooks for various screen defects until landing on a decent one.

But the OP's situation is about design for repairability at low cost. Apple decided that it was a good idea for them to soldier the SSD to the board, and that means SSD failure = board replacement which is very costly.
Lately Apple products have increasingly moved in the direction of being unrepairable for a cost that's in proportion to the actual damage and that's likely to aggravate a lot of users. Just look at the HomePod Mini : broke the cable ? Well you'll have to replace the entire HomePod Mini (which is an environmental waste BTW). For no good reason since it's probably very easy to design a plug system for that cable with very little impact on design or manufacturing cost.
For a device like a Mac with a rather simple layout and no water resistance rating I find it rather cretinous and irrational to continue moving in that direction. Particularly for the SSD, which can still reach very high transfer speeds without being soldered on anyway and doesn't take up that much space (if it's soldiered to the board it also means that it's a lot more difficult to keep your data in case of a board failure BTW).
So that's the main problem with electronics repair bills today : proportion of the repair bill to the actual damage because of a lack of design for repairability at a proportional cost. From a legal standpoint BTW that's probably where legislation is going to hit in the following decade.

Yeah, I definitely agree. Personally I don't care how thin a laptop is with SSD's mostly being the PCIe nvme it makes no sense why Apple would solder those onto their Macs. Out side of the Upfront "gotcha" upgrades so you can't upgrade yourself, it literally makes zero sense. Data is the whole reason you're using the computer, and then to solder it to the board with zero ways to access it if say the cpu dies is stupid. At least with the 2017 MBP (2 port) they had a port on the motherboard for data recovery, albeit proprietary I think?

Soldering on the SSD, it's just stupid. Again look at the 2017 MBP (2 port) and the size of it's SSD. I find it hard to believe Apple couldn't find room in ALL it's laptops to use that format. Data is extremely important and so it should be separated and either removable or the very least be accessible should the motherboard die. Look at Lenovo's X1 Carbon or the Dell XPS 13, they have removable SSD's. And for speed, yeah having it removable makes zero difference. I have a AMD Ryzen gaming PC with a PCIe Gen 4 SSD that I've benchmarked and does close to 5000MB/s read and 4500 MB/s write which would destroy my M1 Air. Having the SSD soldered doesn't make it faster.

Environmentally, yeah it's stupid. I wasn't aware of the Home Pod Mini's cable but there is zero reason like you say that it had to be that way. It should be designed in a way that if the cable breaks, it's a cheap cost to replace, not having to throw away the unit. I've replaced the keyboard in a 2012 MBP and it was the biggest pain the in... and then my sister fed her 2017 MB Air a glass of red wine. Thankfully it still worked but the keyboard had to be replaced. I did that too but the amount of unnecessary parts I had to remove to replace the keyboard (spoiler alert, basically everything), *glued in speakers, about 80+ screws, yes that many, and more glue that holds in the keyboard... oh, and did I mention the metal rivets that you have to snap off holding the keyboard in place, on top of 60+ screws also securing the keyboard to the case too. When that MacBook was back together it was never the same because of the area's that were glued in, plus the metal rivets you have to snap off, I couldn't secure them the same again. No other manufacture has glue inside there laptops (that I'm aware of). To replace the keyboard on my sister's Air Apple wanted $400, but replacement keyboards were only $35 on eBay. Any why, because Apple doesn't just replace your keyboard on the 2012 MBP, or the 2017 Air, they replace the entire top cover.
You have to wonder, doesn't Apple see that as a waste of resources even for themselves, man power and material, let alone to this planet?

I love my M1 Air, but after the 3yr warranty is done... the keyboard isn't replaceable, the speakers and battery are glued in, the LCD and glass are glued in, so after 3 yrs if anything breaks, I can imagine my repair bill would not be pretty. If the motherboard dies, that would be a massive cost, probably $1000+, it's not like I can even ask for the part and do it myself to save on labour cost. Everyone should have the right to repair, and manufactures should provide reasonable and fair part replacement costs.

I do hope legislation is past at some point that will force manufactures to provide affordable and reasonable repair cost, which in turn will make them think about the design of their products. Things definitely have to change. The issue is here in Canada, no one is fighting the right to repair, as far as I know yet.

 

[MayaTlab]

It's a difficult balance to strike.
I think that we can cut Apple some slack for some decisions they've taken. I'd be surprised if it were possible to make laptop displays stacks that aren't glued without any opportunity cost. in the same vein glue is a pretty terrific material for audio (little impact on resonances) so there are some benefits to it.
But yeah, when it comes to the SSD... very few valid excuses IMO. Even more so with Apple's newer M1 Macs which have plenty of room to spare inside.

 

[darkmatter343]

It's a difficult balance to strike.
I think that we can cut Apple some slack for some decisions they've taken. I'd be surprised if it were possible to make laptop displays stacks that aren't glued without any opportunity cost. in the same vein glue is a pretty terrific material for audio (little impact on resonances) so there are some benefits to it.
But yeah, when it comes to the SSD... very few valid excuses IMO. Even more so with Apple's newer M1 Macs which have plenty of room to spare inside.

Yeah, it's a tricky balance forsure. I don't particularly like that LCD's are glued in place because they can't be replaced, the entire top case, plus the LCD, and all it's cables have to be changed but with thinness comes compromises. Was it necessary to glue in the battery? And yet Apple does actually charge a very reasonable amount for the battery replacement but then their technicians have to replace the entire case, which means throwing away perfectly good speakers because those are also glued to the case with the battery, as well the keyboard. I can buy the LCD argument, not the battery, or speakers.

Soldering the SSD to the mainboard is horrible idea for both Apple and the consumer. They have to replace the entire mainboard which is a waste, and we as consumers have our repair bill massively increased because of it.

 

[Trimapa]

Well ,well ... to my surprise I received a phone call from Apple , a lady presented herself as a superior . My case got to her as to response of my previous mails to an other agent who decided to escalate my case to her .
Got to go through the whole story even adding the Big Sur Beta install attempt. She explained that as they have physically no access to the computer, and hence have to go by the 2 previous assessments provided by the authorised Apple repair in Malaga and the one at Genius Bar in Marbella : I’m given the following options :A : repair with either them or the authorised dealer at 660 Euro and 625 Euro respectively . B) I can try and find a repair service out of Apple eco system at a possible lesser cost . C) She can make a report ( the same way I already did ) in the English language page of Apple . She was fairly honest by saying “ they may or may not respond to it “
As the conversation was reaching the 40 minutes I was expecting the possible suggestion of a commercial gesture towards a new model or a discount towards the official Apple repair bill . So finally after 40 minutes it ... didn’t come , a polite “ suck it “ in the form of “ very sorry for what happened but I can not do more “
Look , my initial rage of how they handled my “ unlucky « case had since worn off a bit . Now they have the cheek to take 40 of my time to repeat exactly what I have been through in the last two weeks.
À Dell X13-2 will be on my desk by Wednesday, I will even admit I was that close to order a M1 chip had they not called me for that today .
The definite goodby to Apple for me

 

[Trimapa]

Decided to post an update as I think it's quite interesting .
I was really that close on buying a Dell X13 mainly because I didn't want to buy another Apple ever again . Apple Store in Marbella finally offered me a 10% discount on a new A2338 . Something I thought was pretty lousy , but I read plenty of good things on that new model so I thought .. well what the heck give them another chance . The day I decided to get it , and I had in order to enjoy that 10% discount buy from that store in person : What have you .. luckily I checked with them first as they had none in stock . So , a week later I found one on the net for 1350 euro which is only 50 euro more I would have paid at the Apple store , and save me 200km drive up and down to collect it .
Happy with the unit .
More interesting is that my son took my old A1706 ( subject of this thread ) to a independent repair shop in Malaga . They called him 2 weeks later saying they were working on it , and found several faults that seemed to originate from a short circuit somewhere . They estimated 150 to 250 euro labour time to locate fault and repair . Which they did and we ended up paying 215 euro . SSD dead as said Apple Genuis bar and therefor need to replace logic board ? Nothing wrong with it at all . Working perfectly well and all data was still on it . It's now upgraded to Big Sur and I'm writing this post from it . Son is very happy with it .. he actually got it 6 months earlier as he would have .
So before Apple wants to charge you big bucks to repair your product out of warranty .. get a second opinion outside their ecosystem ... may save you hundreds ... it did for us .

 

[TimmuJapan]

Trimapa’s story is unfortunately all too common these days... I too have been a loyal apple customer for 20 years, but the direction that the company has taken with its computers in recent time breaks the heart of the die hard apple lovers. I have several macs, and I write today from a 15 year old white MacBook that runs Ubuntu quite well that I have been able to keep working for so long due to upgradable ram, SSD, and other internals, etc.

There is a lot of BS going around this post. Example: recently released Microsoft surface pro x is thin, light, powerful, tablet/laptop combo AND has removable SSD storage. Apple is soldering the internal components of its computers due to a business model that incorporates “planned obsolescence”, taking advantage of the ignorance of the average consumer about how computer internals work, and ignorance regarding potentials for future upgrades.

I’m praying that the 2021 Macs will go back to removable SSDs. I love macOS, but there is no way I’m spending 1,000s of dollars on a high spec computer with all the internals soldered together. I would not have been able write this note from a 15 year old MacBook that is still working great today if Apple had made the same decisions about soldering internals in 2006 that it does now.

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Decided to post an update as I think it's quite interesting .
I was really that close on buying a Dell X13 mainly because I didn't want to buy another Apple ever again . Apple Store in Marbella finally offered me a 10% discount on a new A2338 . Something I thought was pretty lousy , but I read plenty of good things on that new model so I thought .. well what the heck give them another chance . The day I decided to get it , and I had in order to enjoy that 10% discount buy from that store in person : What have you .. luckily I checked with them first as they had none in stock . So , a week later I found one on the net for 1350 euro which is only 50 euro more I would have paid at the Apple store , and save me 200km drive up and down to collect it .
Happy with the unit .
More interesting is that my son took my old A1706 ( subject of this thread ) to a independent repair shop in Malaga . They called him 2 weeks later saying they were working on it , and found several faults that seemed to originate from a short circuit somewhere . They estimated 150 to 250 euro labour time to locate fault and repair . Which they did and we ended up paying 215 euro . SSD dead as said Apple Genuis bar and therefor need to replace logic board ? Nothing wrong with it at all . Working perfectly well and all data was still on it . It's now upgraded to Big Sur and I'm writing this post from it . Son is very happy with it .. he actually got it 6 months earlier as he would have .
So before Apple wants to charge you big bucks to repair your product out of warranty .. get a second opinion outside their ecosystem ... may save you hundreds ... it did for us .

Hi Trimapa,

Many thanks for taking the time to post onto this forum about your experiences. Very interesting and disappointing reading about your experience with Apple.

I suggest you take the time to also report this back fully to Apple headquarters. Very much a copy and paste of everything you’ve reported on this forum.



From what I’ve read, it looks like it was poor initial diagnosis from Apple about the problems with your laptop.


If a Corner shop electronic store could diagnose it correctly and implement a fix at a greatly reduced cost, then Apple really should be having that in their repair department. It would save them an absolute fortune in cost and customer retention!


I hope on hearing your awful story, Apple does the right thing for you, whatever that would be. Who knows, in a few years time, you may be coming back to Apple. So your time reporting back the issues now would not be a waste of time, for yourself, and also other Apple users out there.


Best wishes for the future, I’m glad your son has got a working MacBook now.


Regards
Martin

 

[TimmuJapan]

If a Corner shop electronic store could diagnose it correctly and implement a fix at a greatly reduced cost, then Apple really should be having that in their repair department. It would save them an absolute fortune in cost and customer retention!

Dear Marty,

Its a funny fact of life, but the Apple Genius Bar/repair department doesn’t really do complicated, component level, logic board repair; but sometimes you find an independent repair shops willing to take on those challenges... and sometimes there are independent repair people who are wizards of this sort of thing.

When soldered together parts somewhere on a logic board fail, Apple doesn’t even try to fix that. They will give / sell you a new logic board, or they will try and sell you an entirely new device. (Or they will give you a new device if the flawed device is under warranty or apple care)...

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Dear Marty,

Its a funny fact of life, but the Apple Genius Bar/repair department doesn’t really do complicated, component level, logic board repair; but sometimes you find an independent repair shops willing to take on those challenges... and sometimes there are independent repair people who are wizards of this sort of thing.

When soldered together parts somewhere on a logic board fail, Apple doesn’t even try to fix that. They will give / sell you a new logic board, or they will try and sell you an entirely new device. (Or they will give you a new device under warranty or apple care)...

Hi Tim,

This sounds very similar to the car industry, where the official franchise do not have proper mechanics anymore, just people in the workshop that swap out items that Fail.

I agree, I hope the next versions of IMacs are going back to Old school, for the enthusiasts. I’ve been a long-term iPhone fan, fantastic phones, very rarely get hot. Recently put onto iPads, then MacBooks. very impressed, with the differentiation of products, and the different experiences between them.

Hopefully Apple finds a reasonable halfway house in their future products

Regards
Martin

 

[ouimetnick]

Dear Marty,

Its a funny fact of life, but the Apple Genius Bar/repair department doesn’t really do complicated, component level, logic board repair; but sometimes you find an independent repair shops willing to take on those challenges... and sometimes there are independent repair people who are wizards of this sort of thing.

When soldered together parts somewhere on a logic board fail, Apple doesn’t even try to fix that. They will give / sell you a new logic board, or they will try and sell you an entirely new device. (Or they will give you a new device under warranty or apple care)...

Apple takes the defective/broken logic board and ships it off to China. It's cheaper to pay slave labor and have the folks in China diagnose and rework those logic boards. The replacement logic board is a used/refurbished board. Likewise the original defective board will end up as someone else's replacement logic board. They blank out the serial numbers so the tech can reprogram the serial number into it. Someone on Reddit suggested that they rework those boards here in the USA, but when I worked was an ACMT, the boards we got said "Product of CHINA" on the box, so I assume it gets sent back to Foxconn or Quanta computer for rework.

With the SSDs being soldered directly, who knows if your bad logic board gets swapped out for a replacement with even more SSD wear than the one that is being replaced.

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Apple takes the defective/broken logic board and ships it off to China. It's cheaper to pay slave labor and have the folks in China diagnose and rework those logic boards. The replacement logic board is a used/refurbished board. Likewise the original defective board will end up as someone else's replacement logic board. They blank out the serial numbers so the tech can reprogram the serial number into it. Someone on Reddit suggested that they rework those boards here in the USA, but when I worked was an ACMT, the boards we got said "Product of CHINA" on the box, so I assume it gets sent back to Foxconn or Quanta computer for rework.

With the SSDs being soldered directly, who knows if your bad logic board gets swapped out for a replacement with even more SSD wear than the one that is being replaced.

cheaper to send off to China than to have local skilled labour work on it?

That just sounds wrong on all levels, hope Apple employs more ethical and environmental practices in the future

Regards
Martin