Have you tried the butterfly 2.0 keyboard? I am a web developer so spend all day coding, i'm really worried about the keyboard and will be the main decider on whether I return it or not.
Man I wish the Surface Book was 15"
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MacBook Pro alternatives
- Thread starter Samtb
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Have you tried the butterfly 2.0 keyboard? I am a web developer so spend all day coding, i'm really worried about the keyboard and will be the main decider on whether I return it or not.
Man I wish the Surface Book was 15"
Not yet, when I will get my local apple store, I'll try it out.
From other people they've said the key travel has not changed and the feel is almost indistinguishable to the older generation.
I seem to be going back and forth on this myself. I have a 15" MBP, but I had a Surface Pro which was a 12" display, and I just got a Surface Book. I think because of the mobility of the smaller laptops have me drawn to the 13" form factor.
Can your Macbook be used as a drawing tablet? Can you digitally sign and mark up PDFs? Can you take handwritten notes? To say the SP4 "doesn't come close" on a usability level is a bit ridiculous. For anyone needing any of this functionality a Macbook Pro (or any other non-touch screen, non-pen enabled laptop) can't compete.
The older trackpads were atrocious, granted. While the "good enough" trackpad on the SP4 type cover doesn't match a Macbook, the 12.3-inch touchscreen right in front of you more than makes up for it.
As for a "serious downgrade"...the new Macbook Pro keyboard is utter garbage. When the key feel and travel is vastly superior on a goddamn Type Cover, never mind the swathes of decent Lenovo, Dell and HP keyboards, the MBP keyboard can no longer be held up as an advantage. I fear the best iterations of the Macbook Pro may now be in the past.
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Tried it in an Apple Store yesterday on the base (non-touch strip) MBP. It feels no different to the Macbook keyboard. Some people say it 'feels' more clicky, I couldn't see it. The travel is identical. I hate it. Genuinely hate it.
Not what I wanted to hear, I might try and get to the Apple Store on the weekend to save time returning it if I don't like it. Do they have touch strip variations on display yet?
Nope.
With no pen input on a MBP, how? Please don't say by plugging in a Wacom tablet...
Here are a couple of reviews of the HP Spectre so you can decide for yourself. The first one is a smackdown between the HP and new MBP:
The second one is a review of the HP with benchmarks, which include comparisons with the Pro:
http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/hp-spectre-x360-13-inch
The second one is a review of the HP with benchmarks, which include comparisons with the Pro:
http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/hp-spectre-x360-13-inch
Notebooks were for us in 2012 when apple released the rmbp with the best laptop cpu and maxed out ram. If the apple of today existed then, they would have released 4gb ram machines and most of us would have never switched to mac to begin with.
Have you never used the built-in Preview app on the Mac? You've been able to sign and markup documents for years now with it.
This! The difference between the latest MBPs and all their competitors is miniscule compared to a full fledged desktop. Those arguing they need more power for their work should be doing their work on a desktop. Which is what the MBPs would be if the power they're asking for gets put inside due to the 1 hour of battery life we'd get.
If you're going 15", I'd strongly recommend an Nvidia 10 series (the gpu laptops mentioned in this thread are updating now, next few months).
The leap from the 9 series is big: it's much more important than Skylake/Kabylake.
I think I could look past everything else but the keyboard. I haven't tried the new version yet, but I found I the rMB to feel so cheap and wrong. Worse than the many iPad keyboard I've tried.
yes, I digitally sign PDFs on my Macbook and I don't take hand written notes because I type faster than I write.
A touchscreen is in no way a good replacement for a good trackpad. Kind of crazy to even suggest it.
Uh, yes. But I'm talking about the ability to make precise, handwritten edits to documents hundreds of pages long in full-screen, vertical orientation. Only a tablet is suitable for that - the Surface Pro (or detachable part of the Surface Book) or iPad Pro with Apple Pencil. Marking up pages in Preview with a keyboard and mouse/trackpad is hardly the same thing.Have you never used the built-in Preview app on the Mac? You've been able to sign and markup documents for years now with it.
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It doesn't have to replace it when you have both on the same device. Also, the SP4 doesn't just have a touchscreen - it's also an active digitiser with precision pen input. All those people who buy Wacom Cintiqs for this very purpose will argue it absolutely trumps a touchpad.
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Preview has a digital signature feature that allows you to take a picture with your isight cam. It stores the signature so whenever I need to sign something it's just one click. And you can markup documents with the trackpad.
Well since I have no need for a Wacom, I will stick with the far superior laptop experience of the Macbook.
I opted for Microsoft`s Surface Book;
I paid less than $2100 for my i7 Surface Book in store inclusive of local taxes. The "base" non Touch Bar 13" 2016 MBP once specified as close as possible to my i7 Surface Book is $2033 not including any of the mandatory dongles. I feel that one company is offering a product that will enhance my work flow potentially, bringing more to the table in time, the other not so much, more of shiny for the sake of shiny. Given the flexibility of the Surface Book, performance and pricing the new 13" MBP simply fails to even remotely impress...
Q-6
I paid less than $2100 for my i7 Surface Book in store inclusive of local taxes. The "base" non Touch Bar 13" 2016 MBP once specified as close as possible to my i7 Surface Book is $2033 not including any of the mandatory dongles. I feel that one company is offering a product that will enhance my work flow potentially, bringing more to the table in time, the other not so much, more of shiny for the sake of shiny. Given the flexibility of the Surface Book, performance and pricing the new 13" MBP simply fails to even remotely impress...
Q-6
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So I specced out an Alienware 17":
1. i7-6700HQ
2. 32 GB DDR4
3. 512 GB SSD + 1 TB 7200RPM HDD
4. GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5
Price: $2714
A maxed out Alienware, which is known for being expensive, (maxed out for now, GTX 1080 coming soon) "gaming" laptop is cheaper. I remember the days when a top of the line "gaming" laptop would go for $4-5K. Now these "gaming" laptops are cheaper than the MBP. Just in case some of you don't know, these powerful "gaming" components can be used for other things as well, now please keep telling that spending more money on the MBP makes more sense because it's a "professional" laptop while an Alienware is a "gaming" laptop. That makes me laugh so hard.
Keep in mind, I'm actually a mac fan. The thought of going back to windows sucks as I genuinely enjoy macOS much more than windows. It's just hard for me to logically rationalize paying more money for a drastically weaker computer just so I can surf the internet longer unplugged.
I'm curious to see how this thing sells, especially with the younger crowd (who are a big part of Apples customer base, but also happen to like gaming a bit more than the older crowd) as I've never seen top of the line gaming laptops be so cheap, even cheaper than a MBP.
Unfortunately, they said one of the reasons they raised the price was because sales were down. Raising the price typically means less people will buy it. Raising the price when the competition is blowing you out of the water performance wise for less money will also lead to less people buying it (hence this thread). I wouldn't be surprised if Apple just cans the MBP in a few years from lack luster sales as they don't really seem to care about the Mac anymore (despite how much they say they do care.) That's just sad.
1. i7-6700HQ
2. 32 GB DDR4
3. 512 GB SSD + 1 TB 7200RPM HDD
4. GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5
Price: $2714
A maxed out Alienware, which is known for being expensive, (maxed out for now, GTX 1080 coming soon) "gaming" laptop is cheaper. I remember the days when a top of the line "gaming" laptop would go for $4-5K. Now these "gaming" laptops are cheaper than the MBP. Just in case some of you don't know, these powerful "gaming" components can be used for other things as well
, now please keep telling that spending more money on the MBP makes more sense because it's a "professional" laptop while an Alienware is a "gaming" laptop. That makes me laugh so hard.Keep in mind, I'm actually a mac fan. The thought of going back to windows sucks as I genuinely enjoy macOS much more than windows. It's just hard for me to logically rationalize paying more money for a drastically weaker computer just so I can surf the internet longer unplugged.
I'm curious to see how this thing sells, especially with the younger crowd (who are a big part of Apples customer base, but also happen to like gaming a bit more than the older crowd) as I've never seen top of the line gaming laptops be so cheap, even cheaper than a MBP.
Unfortunately, they said one of the reasons they raised the price was because sales were down. Raising the price typically means less people will buy it. Raising the price when the competition is blowing you out of the water performance wise for less money will also lead to less people buying it (hence this thread). I wouldn't be surprised if Apple just cans the MBP in a few years from lack luster sales as they don't really seem to care about the Mac anymore (despite how much they say they do care.) That's just sad.
So I specced out an Alienware 17":
1. i7-6700HQ
2. 32 GB DDR4
3. 512 GB SSD + 1 TB 7200RPM HDD
4. GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5
Price: $2714
A maxed out Alienware, which is known for being expensive, (maxed out for now, GTX 1080 coming soon) "gaming" laptop is cheaper. I remember the days when a top of the line "gaming" laptop would go for $4-5K. Now these "gaming" laptops are cheaper than the MBP. Just in case some of you don't know, these powerful "gaming" components can be used for other things as well
Well if you go that way I hope, for your sake, their QC has gotten a lot better. I had an alienware years ago and all it did was constantly lock up or blue screen. Alienware kept sending me driver updates in the hopes of solving it and eventually I gave up.
Was fun playing games while it lasted, though.
The Alienware was just a single example. Theres quite a few companies with laptops with the same specs as the Alienware and still cheaper than the MBP.
With that being said, I've personally had to return 3 MBP's with the whole "yellow screen" debacle in the past. Luckily I didn't get hit with the GPU problems that occurred in the past as well. I wouldn't exactly say Apple can't have it's own QC problems at times.
I grudgingly ordered the new mbp (my company paid for it), but as I was looking for alternatives, it seemed to me that the Razer Blade Stealth is a much better product which, in addition, allows you to game via the Razer Core if you want.
As thin, almost as light, better CPU, better screen. Doesn't require dongles. 2100$ less than what I'm paying for the maxed out mbp and the dongles for home and work ...
On the minus side : Windows :-( but frankly, the only reason I didn't endure the pain of running Windows (and Ubuntu) is because I just started at a company and I didn't want to be less efficient during my starting months.
As thin, almost as light, better CPU, better screen. Doesn't require dongles. 2100$ less than what I'm paying for the maxed out mbp and the dongles for home and work ...
On the minus side : Windows :-( but frankly, the only reason I didn't endure the pain of running Windows (and Ubuntu) is because I just started at a company and I didn't want to be less efficient during my starting months.
add this to the list : the new MB Pro without touchbar ( and maybe the ones with touchbar as well) has slower wifi than LAST year's MB Air ....
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...than-last-years-mb-air.2012272/#post-23855539
You are comparing pricing of a year old model that's also heavily on sale to a brand new released product at MSRP price. Not to mention this is a pre brexit MSRP vs post brexit MSRP. If you are expecting to buy SP 5 next year with MSRP, then I can guaranteed you will be left very disappointed.
Not to mention SP 4's
Weaker graphic
Awful speaker
Bad battery life
Awkward headphone jack position
MUCH slower SSD
Terrible text scaling for that size and resolution
Keyboard needs to be purchased seperately
Hard to use on the lap
I've actually owned SP1, 2 in the past and some of their short coming hasn't improved much since. The thing is, you don't even seem to own any Mac currently, so I don't know why you even come here trying to convince that your SP 4 is better?
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There's another problem with the Surface. You can't comfortably using a single input. There are so many bottoms in windows that is too small for finger so you have to switch to pen. Then with pen you can't pinch and zoom or swipe with gesture, so you need to switch back to pen or trackpad. You end up alternating different input method back and forth all the time.