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MacBook Pro Does Not Support Both GPUs Simultaneously

What a bunch of crap, one would think the the $ shelled out would allow on-th-fly switching.

Perhaps its a limitation of Mac OS X right now. Either way, I'd love to see the spin placed on it by Apple. Especially Steve and fat boy Phi.
 
fluidedge said:
honestly what was the point of putting 2 GPUs into the MBP again?? I thought Ive said "nothing that doesn't need to be in there isn't!"

Apple have really messed the notebooks up. I'm not one of the "they're abandoning pros" type of people but they ARE abandoning pros.
Click to expand...
The GeForce 9400M is a chipset with an integrated graphics chip which isn't powerful enough to be considered "pro", so Apple added the 9600M. It's easy to see the benefit of this architecture: 9400M for low graphics mode to save battery power, and 9600M for high graphics mode.
 
arn said:
That doesn't sound right. What version of Mac OS X did it come with? 10.5.4? (seems unlikely)

The new MacBook Pros (as do all new Macs) ship with a special version of Mac OS X to support it. These changes are integrated into the next major Mac OS X release (10.5.6).

arn
Click to expand...

I am sorry it appears I misread.

Below are the updates it ran after I unboxed.

MacBook Pro logfiles said:
10/15/08 11:29:36 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "Digital Camera Raw Compatibility Update"
10/15/08 11:29:39 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "Remote Desktop Client Update"
10/15/08 11:29:43 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "QuickTime"
10/15/08 11:30:33 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "MacBook, MacBook Pro Software Update"
10/15/08 11:31:05 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "iTunes"
10/15/08 11:31:33 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "iTunes"
10/15/08 11:31:35 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "iTunes"
10/15/08 11:31:36 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "iTunes"
10/15/08 11:31:46 PM SoftwareUpdateCheck[299] Downloading "Java For Mac OS X 10.5 Update 2"
Click to expand...

I will edit my previous post to hopefully reduce any confusion I may have caused.

840
 
Old GPU and NEW GPU

My MBP15" the right one before the new generation MBP
what I wanna know is how big is the difference between my 512 GPU and the new one?
is it that big of a deal to worry about? or its pretty minor?
to be specific, mine is GeForce 8600M GT btw

Regards,
 
Not too surprised that you cannot run them at the same time, but the idea of having to completely log out of mac os-x everytime you want to play a game or use some other graphically intense program seems to be a real hassle. I figured Apple would incorporate some type of "quick-switch". Now I may not be the most up to date on the whole "workings" of the computer, but even the article suggests that this may be possible with a software fix, which begs the question, why was this not implemented from the beginning?

Yet, I'm sure Apple has a legitimate reason for not including it.
Just like they have the stellar reason for not including "cut & paste" on the iphone 3g:rolleyes::confused:
 
Apple needs to retire Steve Jobs and hire a CEO who doesn't attempt to cripple their computers at every possible turn with anorexic thinness, style, missing features and horrible video cards. Enough is enough. Steve needs a rest anyway. Bring back somebody who likes computers. Bring back Woz. :apple: :D

750px-Steve_Wozniak_thumbs_up.jpg
 
fluidedge said:
honestly what was the point of putting 2 GPUs into the MBP again?? I thought Ive said "nothing that doesn't need to be in there isn't!"

Apple have really messed the notebooks up. I'm not one of the "they're abandoning pros" type of people but they ARE abandoning pros.
Click to expand...

1. The integrated graphics is part of the motherboard and removing it would mean a very costly redesign. It is probably cheaper for Apple to put the same integrated graphics both into the MacBooks (which really need it) and the MacBook Pros than to remove it from the MacBook Pro.

2. The point is having both one hour more battery life when you need it and very fast graphics when you need it instead of having one only.

3. The whole thing is a software issue and therefore can be fixed. I wouldn't see it as high priority at all. Quite likely some software developer was working hard to make the MBP work with either card, that was good enough to ship it, and now that developer may very will be working to support switching at other times (for example automatically switch to the low power version if the hardware notices that it isn't used much).

4. What would be more important in 10.6 would be the ability to use the integrated card for graphics and the discrete card for high performance computing simultaneously (or the other way round). I am sure that will be there, and it is more important than being able to switch modes at any time.
 
Fredd-E said:
But, they also say: "Apple's hybrid graphics technology is supported under the MacOS X operating system version 10.5.6 and higher only." Am I reading this wrong or are they saying that when 10.5.6 is released it will support the method of two gpu's working at same time? Or will it be supported when Snow Leopard (10.6) is released?!
Click to expand...

Quite possible that Apple has finished testing 10.5.6 on the new released MacBooks, but hasn't finished testing compatibility with shipped models, and for example hasn't finished testing the upgrade functionality. NVidia would certainly have a few new MacBooks running 10.5.6 in their hands.
 
Chipset

fluidedge said:
honestly what was the point of putting 2 GPUs into the MBP again?? I thought Ive said "nothing that doesn't need to be in there isn't!"

Apple have really messed the notebooks up. I'm not one of the "they're abandoning pros" type of people but they ARE abandoning pros.
Click to expand...


The GeForce 9400M is not only the GPU, but also contains the chipset controller. I'm not sure if the 9400/9600M has to be a package deal with the NVIDIA chipset in the 9400M or if it can be separated out. Either way, having the 9400M as both the chipset and the GPU cuts down on space, power consumption, and possibly heat.
 
Fredd-E said:
I really hope you are right on this one and that we are not facing a hardware limitation over here. I thought I saw on the nvidia website that the 9400M and 9600GT don't support GeForce Boost Mode...

source: http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybridsli_notebook.html (at the bottom)
Click to expand...

Good point there. If it is a hardware limitation then I guess I have to wait for the next MacBook Pro update then! T-T
 
I've read somewhere that NVIDIA disables SLI setups in cases where it hurts performance. Mixing the 9400M with 9600M might be such a case.
 
so wait, if you're sitting at your desk with your macbook pro and your new 24 inch cinema display playing Crysis 2 (hahahhahahahahahhahaha, yeah right) and you decide it's time to get up and go to the coffee shop and do some work, you have to log out before you close the lid to disable the faster graphics card?

That's absurd. It would be LESS annoying to have a "fast" graphics mode that came on a USB stick that you had to unplug physically...I log out of my macbook maybe once or twice a month....

That's just insane.

Fark.com has a sentence that I think applies to these machines:

FAIL.
 
Bubba Satori said:
Apple needs to retire Steve Jobs and hire a CEO who doesn't attempt to cripple their computers at every possible turn with anorexic thinness, style, missing features and horrible video cards. Enough is enough. Steve needs a rest anyway. Bring back somebody who likes computers. Bring back Woz. :apple: :D

Woz is a great electrical/computer engineer, but like most engineers, is all about the abilities of the device over looks and ease-of-use.

Expect your next MacBook to ship with 9-pin serial, a solar panel, external battery, and a 1500-page manual on how to reprogram your bootloader every time the power goes out.

Apple support will require you to get out your multimeter and check for an open lead before they will replace your motherboard.
Click to expand...
 
markandre said:
I've read somewhere that NVIDIA disables SLI setups in cases where it hurts performance. Mixing the 9400M with 9600M might be such a case.
Click to expand...

I believe you are right.
real SLI (using graphics power from both cards simultaneously) requires about the same performance for each graphics chip.

I think the log-out log-in issue will be solved with a software update, and it looks like nvidia knows a little bit more about 10.5.6 than we do.....

I really don't know if it is possible that 'Grand Central' in snow leopard can use the graphics chip not in use, but i suspect it would be possible and it is developed with this update in mind.
 
dronkert said:
According to the closer look by Heise it's a software limitation. Apparently Windows can switch without logging out; you only need to close DirectX programs beforehand. (Both links in German.)
Click to expand...

Sounds right to me.

Watching the log files on my MBP, it appears that OS X stops aqua (as well as many processes dependent on it) when swapping between GPUs. This may be resolved with either a new Kernal, or implementation of Aqua that can fully offload graphics processes to memory (not sure if that is possible??) while the switch occurs.

Having a "multi layered" OS has some limitations I guess. :)

MacBook Pro logs while switching GPUs said:
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM loginwindow[56] CGSShutdownServerConnections: Detaching application from window server
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM quicklookd[1139] CGSShutdownServerConnections: Detaching application from window server
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM com.apple.quicklook[1139] Thu Oct 16 08:28:08 macbook-pro.local quicklookd[1139] <Warning>: CGSShutdownServerConnections: Detaching application from window server
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM com.apple.quicklook[1139] Thu Oct 16 08:28:08 macbook-pro.local quicklookd[1139] <Warning>: CGSDisplayServerShutdown: Detaching display subsystem from window server
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM quicklookd[1139] CGSDisplayServerShutdown: Detaching display subsystem from window server
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM com.apple.loginwindow[56] Thu Oct 16 08:28:08 macbook-pro.local loginwindow[56] <Warning>: CGSShutdownServerConnections: Detaching application from window server
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM loginwindow[56] CGSDisplayServerShutdown: Detaching display subsystem from window server
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM com.apple.loginwindow[56] Thu Oct 16 08:28:08 macbook-pro.local loginwindow[56] <Warning>: CGSDisplayServerShutdown: Detaching display subsystem from window server
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM com.apple.launchd[112] ([0x0-0x31031].com.apple.AppleSpell[492]) Exited: Terminated
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM com.apple.launchd[112] (com.apple.pboard[122]) Exited: Terminated
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM com.apple.launchd[112] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-Aqua[121]) Exited: Terminated
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM com.apple.launchd[112] (com.apple.quicklook[1139]) Exited: Terminated
10/16/08 8:28:08 AM /System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow[1199] Login Window Application Started
10/16/08 8:28:14 AM loginwindow[1199] Login Window Started Security Agent
10/16/08 8:28:15 AM SecurityAgent[1207] User info context values set for theuser
10/16/08 8:28:15 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.aslmanager) Throttling respawn: Will start in 10 seconds
10/16/08 8:28:15 AM SecurityAgent[1207] Login Window done
10/16/08 8:28:15 AM loginwindow[1199] Login Window - Returned from Security Agent
10/16/08 8:28:15 AM loginwindow[1199] USER_PROCESS: 1199 console
10/16/08 8:28:15 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserEventAgent-LoginWindow[1208]) Exited: Terminated
Click to expand...

As you can see the entire process takes about 7 seconds.

840
 
fluidedge said:
honestly what was the point of putting 2 GPUs into the MBP again?? I thought Ive said "nothing that doesn't need to be in there isn't!"

Apple have really messed the notebooks up. I'm not one of the "they're abandoning pros" type of people but they ARE abandoning pros.
Click to expand...

There are two GPUs for power-saving purposes and for future use by Snow Leopard, as clearly explained by Apple. How on earth is this "abandoning pros?" This news takes nothing away from the new MBP, I can't understand why people are complaining. Are the graphics performance gains STILL not enough? :rolleyes:

Plus, no-one here as ANY IDEA what Apple's future plans are for the dual GPU setup, and yet see fit to complain about it anyway.
 
Looks like those macbook pros are very disappointing. The only things going for them are design and, if you care, their new production methods.

There is no innovation at all. The only reason one would have to update is the new trackpad and an under utilized graphics card.

More and more I am tempted to switch to a PC. I like the OS X a lot better than windows, and I am used to some applications on the Mac. But having to use their overpriced pieces of older technology is truly irritating.

There's an incredible hardware world out there, maybe not always as stylish, but certainly faster, smaller, or bigger, with any options you like. Integrated 3G connectivity, card slots for cameras, any connector you want (not like the 2 underpowered USB ports on most macbooks)...

It's sad. I've been waiting for this event but now I don't know what I will buy next month. For the first time in years.
 
Yeah, so is it hardware or software related since they talk about:

"This implementation"

So it should be hardware related. But who knows Snow Leo can utilize both at the same time?
 
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