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Macbook Pro is not overpriced. Here is why.
- Thread starter Thornblom
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It definitely is objectively overpriced based on hardware, there's no two ways about it. Comparable machines cost up to £1,000 less for equivalent specifications... whether the sleeker design and macOS are worth paying said premium so the relative value is somewhat better is debatable and subject to the individual. Personally I'm willing to pay a premium, but what makes it so hard is that you realistically have to tack on at least the £200 upgrade to 512GB of storage, which further diminishes the value proposition. A computer costing £2,400 shouldn't be coming with a 256GB SSD today. It was just about acceptable back in may 2015 before 4K60 video and live photos, today it's just not good enough at that price point.
All this is before you consider the rigmarole of having to BTO for 512GB without the CPU and GPU upgrade if you don't want it, or for any configuration 1TB+ or with vega graphics. This further compounds the reliability issues the machines have as it means walking in and swapping the machine straight away is out of the question if you have a non stock model.
All this is before you consider the rigmarole of having to BTO for 512GB without the CPU and GPU upgrade if you don't want it, or for any configuration 1TB+ or with vega graphics. This further compounds the reliability issues the machines have as it means walking in and swapping the machine straight away is out of the question if you have a non stock model.
555x is no way in hell comparable to 1650
gpu.userbenchmark.com
259% in benchmark
UserBenchmark: Nvidia GeForce GTX 555 vs 1650
Based on 259,808 user benchmarks for the Nvidia GeForce GTX 555 and the GTX 1650, we rank them both on effective speed and value for money against the best 714 GPUs.
259% in benchmark
All advance specs and higher speeds will be of no use when the Operating System is a mess...
I know right? 90% of my games from gog don't work on Catalina, none of my legacy software. Looks like my Macs will stay on Mojave forever, starts looking like mobile OS anyway.
As usual it will takes time for others to be compatible , Apple more than once will be ahead of things in developing new stuff .
You know that the Radeon Pro 555X is not the same as the old gtx 555 you listed in your comparison.555x is no way in hell comparable to 1650
UserBenchmark: Nvidia GeForce GTX 555 vs 1650
Based on 259,808 user benchmarks for the Nvidia GeForce GTX 555 and the GTX 1650, we rank them both on effective speed and value for money against the best 714 GPUs.
259% in benchmark
There is still a difference depending on benchmarks.
https://technical.city/en/video/Radeon-RX-560X-mobile-vs-GeForce-GTX-1650-Max-Q
This is with the 560X which is about 10% faster than the 555X.
your literally stating its 10 percent faster than a turd which still is a turd ?
720p 1650 280% faster
63.7% faster (about 1.5 times) in synthetic tests
Much newer (23 April 2019 vs 5 January 2017)
- according to the link you posted
point being, 555x and to some regards 560x, have no business in a 2k+ pro laptop range. they are just a step above intel's onboard graphic but in a professional setting they don't hold a candle to vega and 1650.
the OP chose some really bad example of bang for the money pc laptops. i just helped my friend custom order the new m15 alienware
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with a 350 coupon we used it knocked it down to 2200.
its a very thin gaming laptop with RTX 2070, OLED 4k display, and 2x m.2 slot for up to 4tb of ssd storage. not to mention the 6 core cpu sticks around 4ghz turbo boost and doesn't thermal throttle like my 2018 mbp 15inch. if you go acer route its probably even cheaper.
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That is still less than the 259% which you originally stated, using the incorrect GPU.your literally stating its 10 percent faster than a turd which still is a turd ?
720p 1650 280% faster
63.7% faster (about 1.5 times) in synthetic tests
Much newer (23 April 2019 vs 5 January 2017)
- according to the link you posted
point being, 555x and to some regards 560x, have no business in a 2k+ pro laptop range. they are just a step above intel's onboard graphic but in a professional setting they don't hold a candle to vega and 1650.
the OP chose some really bad example of bang for the money pc laptops. i just helped my friend custom order the new m15 alienware
Computers, Monitors & Technology Solutions | Dell USA
Dell provides technology solutions, services & support. Buy Laptops, Touch Screen PCs, Desktops, Servers, Storage, Monitors, Gaming & Accessorieswww.dell.com
with a 350 coupon we used it knocked it down to 2200.
its a very thin gaming laptop with RTX 2070, OLED 4k display, and 2x m.2 slot for up to 4tb of ssd storage. not to mention the 6 core cpu sticks around 4ghz turbo boost and doesn't thermal throttle like my 2018 mbp 15inch. if you go acer route its probably even cheaper.
I guess you can call it just a step above intel's onboard graphics. You can see the difference between Intel's higher end integrated graphics Intel Iris Plus 655, which is used in the 2018/2019 13" TB MBP vs the Pro 555X and the previous Pro 560
https://barefeats.com/macbook_pro_2018_13in_vs_15in.html
GPU needs really depend on the user as well. If you want a good gaming laptop, then the one your friend selected looks pretty good albeit thicker and heavier than the 15" MBP. You can also find discounts on MBPs if you shop around.
I also have a 2018 15" MBP and it suits me just fine even with the "lowly" 560X. I like the portability of the MBP (lighter than the older rMBPs) and I wanted the larger screen size over the 13". Having the discrete GPU is just a bonus as I already have a Win10 gaming desktop.
pot calling kettle you're also using the incorrect GPU. given that 555-555x-560x margin of 10% difference it doesn't take away from my point that 555x is no way in hell comparable to 1650 in my original point.
discounts on mbp aren't that big compare to pc laptop usual run of the mill, at most 10 percent unless you go refurb or used on ebay.
every user have their own need, if they need to stick to osx and willing to pay the premium no one stopping them, but its insincere to say the MBP are not overpriced. apple is literally the only brand throwing entry level GPU into a 2k+ laptop.
Well, speaking as someone who actually owns and uses one, and has owned every MacBook Pro since 2010... (every single model, at every size)
The hate is justified.
If Apple is reading this, I want them to take this to heart:
1. Since 2015, I have had to do no less than 5 keyboard replacements for all generations of MacBook. And some of them were failures that stuck around for spans of 2 months or 3 months, or in the most recent case, 9 months... while I was overseas and there was no Apple service center to take care of the keyboard replacement. The keyboard is... bad, and very prone to failure. I think I've finally gotten lucky with the 13" model that I have now (from 2018) and the keyboard hasn't failed, yet. But all of the previous machines I have owned or had access to had failed.
2. You say build quality is improved, but I disagree. I have also dropped a device after 2015, and it used to be that a MacBook would just dent a little, or a corner would get bent. But now...? If I drop a MacBook, it's 99% going to shatter the screen. I have dropped 2 MacBooks this way and the total repair cost for each was $750 (total $1500 spent on just screen repair). That is not "superior" build quality. It's worse build quality than the previous generation, all in the pursuit of more thinness.
3. On the screen...it used to be that MacBooks had screens built like tanks. It was very hard to mark a screen. And by "very hard", I really mean I could mistakenly slash the screen with a steak knife and it wouldn't really do anything. Now? Even the keys mark the screen. Simply by closing the lid, the screen is marked with the shape of the keyboard and trackpad. Again, a problem with Apple's pursuit of making everything super thin and not care about durability at all. I have had this happen to every single MacBook since 2015. The 2018 13" I have now also has this problem. So... "superior" build quality? I think not.
And I won't even bother to compare against Windows laptops.
If you think Apple has "superior" build quality, I'd say... they used to have even better build quality.
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Oh, but I will concede that the XPS 15 is a cheaper feeling device. Those who say that it has "on par" build quality with a MacBook probably hasn't used any MacBook for an extended period of time.
And how do I know this? I also own one, folks. It's used when I need to check something out on the Windows side. I also have a LG Gram 17 (well, gave it to my dad since it's a nice light-weight device) that I originally thought was going to replace the XPS 15 since I don't game. And I'm now honestly looking to replace the XPS 15 with the Lenovo X1.
When talking about Macbook prices the base configs may be even comparable, but when you start adding options it goes through the roof, plus Windows machines can be upgraded by the user. I have now Razer Blade Base 15, 64GB RAM, 9.8TB SSD, with RTX2060 and 9750h. Total cost $3456 for a machine that has double the RAM, SSD storage and GPU power than the maxed out $5k Macbook config with similar build quality. And I still get 3150 in CB20 which is pretty close to 8 core Macbooks, sacrificing after sale support and battery life. But the best support is the one you don't need, and since there is nothing glued or soldered in I should be able to fix any potential problem myself. I may need a shrink to deal with the retarded keyboard layout though, but at least it won't randomly fail because of speck of dust or fatigue.
Well, I do have a Dell XPS 15 9550, which I bought in 2016, and I found it to have some build quality issues. The chassis is clearly more fragile and made of some loose parts. Recently, I found out that a piece of it broke in one of the edges; I do not know even how it could break, as I rarely carry it around due to its weight.
I never had a problem with any of my MacBook keyboards (and I have had four different MacBooks, two of which have the butterfly mechanism). However, the Dell XPS registers two strokes when I click the space bar, and I found in the Internet that this is a common issue.
I also run into other problems with my Dell XPS: a swollen battery and a failed SSD. So, I do not find it half as good or reliable as a MacBook. Plus, other Windows laptops seem more well-built. Dell's own Latitude series seem better; I used a 7000 series Latitude for years and it was solid as a rock. And also Microsoft Surface Book and Surface Laptop, or Samsung Series 9. I do not own them to tell for sure, but they surely look and feel more well-built than the XPS 15.
Who wants to pay 2.5k$ for a broken keyboard? Look at that number twenty five hundred dollars for a computer with a crappy keyboard. They jail people for that type of robbery.
All I know I bought a Surface Laptop 3 (sexy metal black 13 inches) for less than a MacBook Air, simply loving it.
The CPU is 2x faster, the screen is Touch, which is a HUGE plus (you do not have to use it, but it's there when and if you want to, def an added bonus.
It has a nice keyboard that actually works, a decent set of ports (one Usb A and one type C), an Applecare + like accidental damage coverage and a great trackpad and the same build quality of a Mac.
SO for me, the Apple counterpart is extremely expensive, I had a Mac since OS X came out, back then they were more expensive but better, nowadays you can shop for the same specs for a lot less.
It all boils down to preferences, and Windows 10 is not as bad as Windows 95 was
.
This post sounds more like you are trying to convince yourself to get a Mac, and my suggestion is to get what you feel works for you, no matter who makes it.
The CPU is 2x faster, the screen is Touch, which is a HUGE plus (you do not have to use it, but it's there when and if you want to, def an added bonus.
It has a nice keyboard that actually works, a decent set of ports (one Usb A and one type C), an Applecare + like accidental damage coverage and a great trackpad and the same build quality of a Mac.
SO for me, the Apple counterpart is extremely expensive, I had a Mac since OS X came out, back then they were more expensive but better, nowadays you can shop for the same specs for a lot less.
It all boils down to preferences, and Windows 10 is not as bad as Windows 95 was
.This post sounds more like you are trying to convince yourself to get a Mac, and my suggestion is to get what you feel works for you, no matter who makes it.
I agreed with it, i bought since 2011 until today, the bootup instantly like switch on TV just a few seconds!
This! The closest I have been able to come to macOS is to install Linux. I was in Best Buy yesterday and saw a really nice Windows 10 laptop with a 4K screen. The machine was beautiful, the only downside was that it comes with an OS wannabe (Windows). My first thought was “it will take me an hour to wipe the hard drive, install and set up debian”. I don’t even bother setting up Windows anymore, I take the machine out of the box, boot from USB, wipe the entire hard drive and install Linux.
The blind and the foolish, Apple has milked the Butterfly keyboard for all its worth. The acceptance of the community will only result in more of the same garbage from Tim & Co.
FarceBook being the appropriate term...
Q-6
And that’s just hardware. That’s not including the whisper quiet editing I get in FCPX, the fact that FCPX (Apple software) with Apple hardware runs buttery smooth and gets a ton of extra juice out of the video card that isn’t seen when doing Ppro comparisons between a MBP and a Windows counterpart running it, etc.
It's being pretty generous to say the 560X can go toe to toe with the 1050, the 1650 is closer to the 1060, which puts it somewhere around Vega 20 performance, so yeah safe to say the 555X is a world away.555x is no way in hell comparable to 1650
UserBenchmark: Nvidia GeForce GTX 555 vs 1650
Based on 259,808 user benchmarks for the Nvidia GeForce GTX 555 and the GTX 1650, we rank them both on effective speed and value for money against the best 714 GPUs.
259% in benchmark
I own a 2017 MBP TB 13' that was maxed out for everything except the CPU. My work gave me a nearly maxed out 2018 XPS 15. New employer (same job) and I now have a high end HP ZBook 15'.
The MBP was about $500-$1000 more than the Windows equivalent at the time when I was looking for similar laptops.
I don't think I would or could argue that the MBP isn't overpriced, but I am happy with it (so is my wife who uses it all day for her PhD). I love iMessage integration, AirPods, Mac OS... and this is coming from someone who makes their $ with Windows in IT and development (C#, SQL, etc...).
My wife and I are going on 1.6 years of ownership of these things and we've had 0 problems with the keyboards. While I am not a heavy user of my keyboard, my wife is (typing out papers upon papers) ... we know many people with these laptops at school, etc... - the whole idea that these keyboards are unusable is laughable at best. Totally and completely understand that some people don't like them.
I plan on buying another MBP for my personal use in a few years - the 16' MBP with the new keyboard interests me greatly.
Oh, I use a Sonnet EGPU with my MBP (my wife does as well) (RX 580 - nothing so fancy). Though I find the Windows laptops utilize it far better than my MBP does for Starcraft II.
Personal choice. Completely respect those that prefer not to get a MBP or don't like them. If I hadn't bitten the Apple, I'd be in the same group. Integration of AirPods, iMessage, handoff is something I'm willing to pay for.
In my experience.... gaming wise... Windows laptops are FAR better (using my EGPU RX 580) than Mac for most games. Guess I'm getting old cuz I don't game much anymore.
The MBP was about $500-$1000 more than the Windows equivalent at the time when I was looking for similar laptops.
I don't think I would or could argue that the MBP isn't overpriced, but I am happy with it (so is my wife who uses it all day for her PhD). I love iMessage integration, AirPods, Mac OS... and this is coming from someone who makes their $ with Windows in IT and development (C#, SQL, etc...).
My wife and I are going on 1.6 years of ownership of these things and we've had 0 problems with the keyboards. While I am not a heavy user of my keyboard, my wife is (typing out papers upon papers) ... we know many people with these laptops at school, etc... - the whole idea that these keyboards are unusable is laughable at best. Totally and completely understand that some people don't like them.
I plan on buying another MBP for my personal use in a few years - the 16' MBP with the new keyboard interests me greatly.
Oh, I use a Sonnet EGPU with my MBP (my wife does as well) (RX 580 - nothing so fancy). Though I find the Windows laptops utilize it far better than my MBP does for Starcraft II.
Personal choice. Completely respect those that prefer not to get a MBP or don't like them. If I hadn't bitten the Apple, I'd be in the same group. Integration of AirPods, iMessage, handoff is something I'm willing to pay for.
In my experience.... gaming wise... Windows laptops are FAR better (using my EGPU RX 580) than Mac for most games. Guess I'm getting old cuz I don't game much anymore.
The problem is indeed Apple’s pricing. I’ll explain why.
OP, you’re comparing Apple’s pricing vs. competitors. I believe Apple has artificially driven up pricing across the industry in what was nearly a commoditized product. You almost get to this point at the end, I think without realizing it. Let’s compare Apple to itself.
In 2008 I bought a Dell computer for $1,179 (Canadian dollars). Later that year I bought a first week unibody Macbook with the same specs for $1,400. The Macbook had a lower rez screen but better contrast; otherwise identical specs except for much superior build quality.
Inflation adjusted pricing for the Macbook at $1,400 is $1,669.57 (today’s dollars). The next year the price was reduced $1,250 ($1,490 today’s dollars). We now gain retina screens and SSD’s and lose optical drives and ports. SSD pricing is now comparable to platter drive costs of the day. High rez screens have also become commoditized. We can call component cost a draw, although it probably favors a price reduction.
One big hit comes with storage costs. 500 GB had become a standard amount of storage on a Macbook. A current Macbook Pro with similar storage is $2,199 (Canadian) and an Air is $1,949. The least expensive current Mac is $459 (2019 dollars) more than previously established pricing.
One thing that 2008 Mac gave me was reliability. It’s still in daily use. I don’t have this faith in the current Macs. The Dell failed and was fixed under first year warranty. It died totally again a few years later. The Mac was well worth the 19% pricing premium. Now we’re paying more and in terms of reliability I believe we’re getting less. The value is gone.
OP, you’re comparing Apple’s pricing vs. competitors. I believe Apple has artificially driven up pricing across the industry in what was nearly a commoditized product. You almost get to this point at the end, I think without realizing it. Let’s compare Apple to itself.
In 2008 I bought a Dell computer for $1,179 (Canadian dollars). Later that year I bought a first week unibody Macbook with the same specs for $1,400. The Macbook had a lower rez screen but better contrast; otherwise identical specs except for much superior build quality.
Inflation adjusted pricing for the Macbook at $1,400 is $1,669.57 (today’s dollars). The next year the price was reduced $1,250 ($1,490 today’s dollars). We now gain retina screens and SSD’s and lose optical drives and ports. SSD pricing is now comparable to platter drive costs of the day. High rez screens have also become commoditized. We can call component cost a draw, although it probably favors a price reduction.
One big hit comes with storage costs. 500 GB had become a standard amount of storage on a Macbook. A current Macbook Pro with similar storage is $2,199 (Canadian) and an Air is $1,949. The least expensive current Mac is $459 (2019 dollars) more than previously established pricing.
One thing that 2008 Mac gave me was reliability. It’s still in daily use. I don’t have this faith in the current Macs. The Dell failed and was fixed under first year warranty. It died totally again a few years later. The Mac was well worth the 19% pricing premium. Now we’re paying more and in terms of reliability I believe we’re getting less. The value is gone.
The trackpad’s worth an extra hundo to me. Size, feel & precision. Gestures also.
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You have a point re: the screen. The keyboard consistently marks the screen—it comes off with a good scrub and the right cleaner, but it shouldn’t be an issue for my $3k laptop.
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