Apple quality control is pretty piss poor. Took 4 MacBook Pros for me to get a decent one that didn't have power management issues, display issues, constant kernel panics (and a whole list of other problems) but the 4th turned out to be a fantastic machine.
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Macbook Pro. It's going back and so am I.
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weg
macrumors 6502a
So, your first date wasn't that nice, she offered you to invite you to her place and promised to make everything right this time, and you declined? I have to tell you one thing, once you've found a nice girl, you better don't give up on her on the first occasion, especially if you're living in the UK 😀
Test pilot? That would imply I was using hardware that wasn't reaching the end of its cycle, wouldn't it? 😉
I'm not a quitter. Not yet anyway. I've just bailed on this model type.
I can understand why people with perfect models want to slap my opinion down. I'm contributing to a sense that their machine may somehow be flawed, even if it seems perfect to them. If I had a perfect model and chose to frequent these forums then I'm sure I would be saying something fairly similar, defending my decision to buy and defending Apple by proxy. By all accounts it seems they have their work cut out in these forums. 🙂
The truth is a took a decision to buy, but I also decided that if I was stung by any of the bugs that I saw posted on these forums that Apple could wait a bit longer for my money.
And, just to provide some balance, if my experience had been as I wished it to be, I would be here singing its praises too.
kaiwai
macrumors 6502a
Oh, come on. If this was a PC we'd have people going, "oh, that's perfectly normal, Windows computers are crap' and yet, when people buy a Mac, they expect perfection - double standards anyone?
He bought, IIRC one laptop, had one bad experience and now complaining? if every product I bought I experienced a fault, and refused to purchased one again, I would have died of hunger and exposure when I was a kid.
If you spent £1200 on an apple, bit down and it tasted of lemon, wouldn't you feel inclined to choose another grocer? 😉
And, just for the record. If I had experienced these faults in isolation, I would probably be giving Apple another chance, especially as they offered more money off. However, these faults have been known for over 6 months and Apple persist in exhausting their stock and in doing so make professional users wary.
When I buy a Mac, that costs roughly double that of a typical Windows laptop you're damn straight I expect it to be perfect. I at least expect something that can be seen in moments of booting up to be stopped by QC.
aiterum
macrumors 6502
Yes there is a double standard, and that is because Apple has been promoting a double standard for as long as I can remember.
What is there reason and main selling point for getting people to switch over in the first place? So they can get a (supposedly) "better system" than you would get with a PC. They try to sell their product off as "perfect." So I think it's a little understandable when they recieve products that (much) less than perfect, that they would be a little confused.
If I bought a PC with a bad screen, I wouldn't chalk it up to "Windows Computers are crap", or "that's perfectly normal". Maybe you would, but I wouldn't. I'd chalk it up to a lack of QC from whichever manufacturer I'd bought it from. And then I'd return it for either another computer from the same manufacturer, or my money back to try things with a different manufacturer. I don't expect PCs to be crap any more than I expect Macs to be crap. But when something doesn't work, it gets called out. And when a company (like Apple) bases half of its marketing on an argument about the inferiority of competing (PC) hardware, they're going to get extra attention when their machines fail to perform.
huck500
macrumors 6502
I have a perfect MBP, and I love it. My school buys many, many apple computers and generally has very little trouble with them....
However, looking at Consumer Reports' reliability ratings is pretty surprising. In desktops, Apple has by far the highest reliability ratings at 12% (percentage of computers with serious problems) vs the next highest, 17% (Compaq, Dell, IBM, Sony), with Gateway being the worst at 20%.
In laptops, however, Apple is the worst, with 23% having serious problems vs the best, Lenovo, with 20%. Important to note that CR says that differences of less than 3% are meaningless, so all laptops are about the same, reliability-wise.
Personally, I'd give Apple at least 3 or 4 chances to make things right before I switched, because I can now use OSX 99% of the time and XP 1% (stupid Netflix...) on the same computer.
However, looking at Consumer Reports' reliability ratings is pretty surprising. In desktops, Apple has by far the highest reliability ratings at 12% (percentage of computers with serious problems) vs the next highest, 17% (Compaq, Dell, IBM, Sony), with Gateway being the worst at 20%.
In laptops, however, Apple is the worst, with 23% having serious problems vs the best, Lenovo, with 20%. Important to note that CR says that differences of less than 3% are meaningless, so all laptops are about the same, reliability-wise.
Personally, I'd give Apple at least 3 or 4 chances to make things right before I switched, because I can now use OSX 99% of the time and XP 1% (stupid Netflix...) on the same computer.
apsterling
macrumors 6502a
Sorry to hear about your problems.
Part of why it's so much more common on these forums to hear complaints, is a number of reasons. First, there's a common platform here. About 3,000 active people at a time, about 1,000 of which I'd assume have MBPs. If there's 25 people complaining, that's 25/1000, or 2.5% Product with an issue, on a forum LIMITED TO MACS, who are more likely to complain about a problem. Take that to the real world, and see how few with problems there are?
And MBPs aren't the only laptops in the world with problems, my Mom's Dell XPS laptop (about a year old) has a faulty graphics card, and loose USB/Firewire ports, but she refuses to return it do to the crappy service. I have yet to convince my parents to switch. (My mom seems closer than my dad ATM, though)
Part of why it's so much more common on these forums to hear complaints, is a number of reasons. First, there's a common platform here. About 3,000 active people at a time, about 1,000 of which I'd assume have MBPs. If there's 25 people complaining, that's 25/1000, or 2.5% Product with an issue, on a forum LIMITED TO MACS, who are more likely to complain about a problem. Take that to the real world, and see how few with problems there are?
And MBPs aren't the only laptops in the world with problems, my Mom's Dell XPS laptop (about a year old) has a faulty graphics card, and loose USB/Firewire ports, but she refuses to return it do to the crappy service. I have yet to convince my parents to switch. (My mom seems closer than my dad ATM, though)
Perhaps I (we) expect too much from laptop technology. I've spent a lot of time in the Mac Pro forums and most of the problem posts are not as hardware-failure centered as those found here. Looks like I won't be watching TV and working anytime soon. 🙂
kaiwai
macrumors 6502a
How do you know its bad QC? all computers are tested before the leave; it could be a jolt during shipping, mishandling at the store - there are numerous reasons for faults, so don't think that there is a single point of failure.
Also, believing marketing? they're all pretty much made by the same company - there is nothing particularly special about Mac laptop, if you're purchasing a computer based on a perceived 'superiority' then god help you - because the superiority in quality doesn't, and never has existed.
Riiigghttt! Perhaps everyone with a yellow screen just had a computer that was dropped by the shipping company.... it..... all becomes clear now.
A Mac laptop runs OSX. If I could run Leopard properly on a laptop that cost half the price, I would and Microsoft's reign of supremacy would be coming to an end. OSX doesn't have "perceived" superiority anyway. That much, many would concede.
Sesshi
macrumors G3
How about 2 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 18 (only 2 of those are actually mine to use, mind - but all had "issues") + 2?
And I don't think I've had a laptop in the last, ooh, 15 years that self-warped.
And I might have missed a couple. And that's only the Macbook Pros.
I don't have an option of quitting at this stage. Alas.
That's the thing. Apple isn't interested in bringing down Microsoft. They're interested in making money. They make more money through their hardware, not through their software. This is why OS X will forever remain on Apple hardware, which will always be sold at twice the price of equivalent PC hardware.
I'd be interested to hear the story behind that. Just how many of these MBP's had the issues I had?
I'd be happy to pay double for a PC based version of OSX. Sadly I know you're right.
kaiwai
macrumors 6502a
Who said it was solely dropping? Something *COULD* have happened.
I never said that OS X had perceived superiority. I said perceived hardware superiority.
They're all assembled by Quanta Computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanta_Computer) - look at the list; you're going to claim to me that they're better or worse than any others? the only difference between these are how willing customers are to complain.
Sesshi
macrumors G3
Man, you're taxing my memory - it's been quite a long haul.
The 18 was an order that I placed for all of us who need to use a particular piece of software. All 18 arrived with the LED display issue - but I have to say this didn't bother us a great deal and getting them exchanged was a bit of a time nightmare, so we went ahead with using them. Screen issues aside, 12 being issued so far we've rotated a full quarter of the issued machines through Applecare for various problems so far.
As far as the display problems go, in fact every single one of the 15" LED notebooks I've had have the yellowing problem.
Almost all have had case fit & finish issues. Almost all of the MBP's I've had have had uneven closure, either on delivery or over a relatively short period of time. Two 17"s lower cases warped to different degrees, but the Core Duo was the most impressive - it actually drooped on one side. Heat problems, two latch issues I believe, multiple PSU problems and a couple of self-expanding batteries. Fan noise problems, squeaky keyboard, crap wireless on all the MBP's to date, can't take a knock, etc etc etc etc etc etc.
In contrast, I've generally had three or so of Sony's rangetopping laptops at any one time over the last ~8 years and I've had build quality issues which I could count on one hand. At the moment I have three TZ's, three UX's, one recently retired SZ4 and two G11's about to also be retired... and have zero build quality issues (although I had to spend about two hours with each machine on delivery aside from installing what I need - why the hell they feel the burning need to slap a ton of crapware on their machines I have no idea).
I've recently inflicted a 17" 2.6 and a 15" 2.6 on myself - replacements for my personal machines - which have yet to arrive. If you're still hanging about here I'll get back to you whether these exhibit even more issues.
^ Yeah. It's fun to say Windows computers are horrible, but to be honest, I've had three Gateway laptops, and besides a RAM stick that went bad in one of them, they've never given me an ounce of trouble. I ended up giving them to various family members, and I have full confidence in them. I shudder to think of what might have happened had I played Macbook Pro Roulette. When you spend that kind of money, you expect the machine to work out of the box. However, that's an expectation you just can't make, apparently. And as long as enough machines keep working, Apple isn't going to change their policies. They'll just keep denying the problem exists until all the problem units have been sold.
CalBoy
macrumors 604
Yes I would have done this as well. Once in a while life throws a lemon at you. It's no big deal in the modern era, as companies are more than happy to rectify the situation.
Out of curiosity, what made you concerned before hand that the mbp screen was "flaky?" Was it reading these forums? If it was, I got to tell you: most users are not forum users, and most forum users do not bother to post about how great their machine is. By the nature of a forum, threads involving hardware woe are bound to be in much greater number than the, "my computer is just fine" types. 😉
BTW, my screen is just fine (great in fact) so I don't think it's fair to categorize the entire lineup as "poor."😉
I agree that the OP shouldn't be made to do Apple's QA for it, but honestly, how many mbps are actually bad? Do we have the sales and repairs figures? Until then, suggesting that the problems are rampant is wild speculation.
Now I'm sure Sesshi is going to come in and tell me about the dozen different bad Apples he got(😉😛), I'm still pretty confident that by and large, Apple's products suffer from no more problems than Dell, HP, etc.
That's because Apple actively promotes this idea. "It just works" isn't appropriate if it doesn't "just work." Even the Mac v PC ads that have been airing for the past several months are guilty of this. Attacking Vista and its bugs when Leopard has its own fair share opens Apple up to this critisizm.
Let's not take this to the exteme now.🙄
Sesshi
macrumors G3
As I've said before, I'm sure they suffer from no more problems than Dell, HP, etc either... a bottom of the range Dell or HP, that is.
As I've also said before, Apple's problem is that the level of quality and control they have access to is essentially the same as Dell or HP's lines, and probably not the 'pro' line at that. The problem is that the design of the Apples require a more exacting standard of build to work right all the time, which they don't have access to. If you look at the sort of engineering that Dell or HP do, their machines don't require as exacting a build standard in order to work and look right.
Sony on the other hand beats Apple at it's own game and also gets the build quality right. And as much as they might be on their figurative knees, I can't imagine Sony helping out Apple again with Japanese-made models...
CalBoy
macrumors 604
I'd actually be really curious to see some real repair vs sales figures. We'd obviously need Apple; HP, Dell, Lenovo, and Sony might be good bases for comparison.
This is very true. Apple likes to cut things very close, and doesn't invest in the QA to see it through. The result is a potentially great machine for most, and a potential nightmare for the unlucky (yourself, unfortunately among them 😱).
This information is interesting and does mean that the only real difference between the hardware is what is running it, hence why I mentioned OSX. The "superiority" to me, isn't about the hardware, but about what is running on it. I'm sure other Mac users might disagree with me (loving their hardware to bits), but I care more about leaving Windows behind.
on my first... still going strong
for what it's worth, I got my first Mac exactly 1 year ago and I haven't had any problems yet (knock on wood).
I have over 30 friends/relatives with Macs and I have yet to hear about any "new" product defects
I'm sure there are a few random "bad apples" (sorry for the pun) out there but in my limited experience I don't find it to be a widespread syndrome
sounds like you just hit some bad luck... sorry 😕
for what it's worth, I got my first Mac exactly 1 year ago and I haven't had any problems yet (knock on wood).
I have over 30 friends/relatives with Macs and I have yet to hear about any "new" product defects
I'm sure there are a few random "bad apples" (sorry for the pun) out there but in my limited experience I don't find it to be a widespread syndrome
sounds like you just hit some bad luck... sorry 😕