MacBook Pro. Professional or consumer laptop?

[MacDawg]

Ah, the old "is the MacBook Pro really a Pro machine" debate
It is part of a whole rotation of foolish arguments that circulate around here

Is the MacBook Pro a Pro device?
Is the iPad a computer/replacement?
Is it just me or has Apple quality control gone down?
I've been using (fill in the blank _____) for (fill in the blank ____) years, but Apple has lost its way, amirite?
Is the iPhone Max too big?

And the beat goes on...

Here's the thing, people are different and have different work flows and use cases, as well as different views on style, value, and so much more
Your opinion is your opinion only, and you are entitled to it
But so is everyone else entitled to their opinion

At the end of the day, love who you love, use what you use and enjoy life with whatever device you choose, even if it isn't Apple

 

[leman]

The thread is titled, "MacBook Pro. Consumer or professional laptop". I believe I've explained my point many times.
Your role may be 'professional' but it doesn't mean your tools are.

The problem with your argument is that you ignore the function of the tool. Let's take your drill example again. There are many types of professional drills. You can have a compact battery-powered pro-level drill/screwdriver or you can have a massive professional hammer drill. The hammer drill will obviously outperform the small battery-powered one when you want to drill hundreds of holes in reinforced concrete, but the small one is a much better tool if you are working with wood or drywall.

A MacBook Pro has never been designed to offer absolute performance for prolonged periods of time. Very few laptops are. The reason is obvious — people who really need this kind of power will either rely on large workstation desktop machines or supercomputing clusters. The MacBook Pro is a very fast, very portable laptop, with a pro-level display, pro-level connectivity and some of the best battery life in its class, which makes it a very versatile professional tool that can be used both on the go and on the desk (where it can deliver solid performance when plugged into the power outlet). And if you need, you can also run demanding computations on them for days or weeks without break, and no, they won't throttle. If you don't consider this "pro enough", well, thats your world.

And since Toughbooks were mentioned... sure, they are professional machines (already since they are targeted to a small group of professional users with special needs). But they are also very heavy, dead slow and their display is crap. I wouldn't even consider doing any kind of professional work that I do on a laptop like that, just as I wouldn't take a hammer drill for assembling a wardrobe.

1. The games are not sold only to people using OSX.

What do you mean? What does being pro have to do with games? And most of the games out there do have native macOS support nowadays, except AAA shooters.

2. The Macbooks will not test on high settings for extended periods as they throttle far too early and have performance problems

Nonsense. I have an entire department of people here who routinely run demanding stuff on their Mac laptops, even though I'm trying very hard to push them to use our supercomputers. I did preliminary analysis for my PhD on my old MBP — it was running on 100% CPU non-stop for about a week. No throttling whatsoever. My current 2018 machine also can run stuff for hours without any throttling. Yes, there are faster laptops out there. If you need performance above all, I wouldn't buy a Mac. But this story that Macs have performance problems is ridiculous.

and also don't have the wide range of GPU support.

That has always been the case. GPUs in Mac laptops have always been mid-range models, limited by their maximal power output. This limit has been at 50W or lower without exceptions. In the current world where some gaming GPUs can output more then 120W watts, you cannot expect stellar performance. Then again, a laptop that uses a large GPU has other design tradeoffs.

 

[currahee2100]

It’s a fact that after they killed the MacBook, the Pro was the only model they were offering. As such students were buying these.

At work, we throw terminology around loosely. All computers employees use are called workstations. To me though, a workstation needs to handle heavy tasks and can finish them in a timely manner.

My laptop has a Xeon mobile cpu, and my desktop has a server Xeon Silver in it. They are both stupid expensive and can barely do what I need them to do.

What’s confusing about apple is that when they killed their MacBook line, we only had the MacBook Pro. The pros became affordable and the 13” line was clearly also consumer oriented.

Apple violates some rules for workstations just because their laptops are ultra thin. Therefore some allowances can be made..

The Air and MacBook I would argue are for consumers. This is because their cpus are relatively weak. The MacBook is worse because it has a small screen.

The 13” pros are really for consumers until you get to the quad core range. And I would argue that the touchbar 13” and beyond are for prosumers/professionals.

If apple kills off the dual core MBP without touch, and retains its pricing, then I think it can be argued that the MBP line is strictly for prosumers & professionals.

You might being up the fact that other windows laptops are cheaper for the same hardware, but you need to remember that MacBooks are ultra books. Ultrabooks are not cheap. In fact I was looking at a Dell XPS but I thought to myself that I really wanted a MacBook, and for a $100 more I could get one.

I returned my 256 pro and got the 512GB version for 1399. Aside from an i7, the XPS that comes close is 1299, has a lower res screen, and half the storage. It looks like an upgrade to 512gb is free, normally would be $130 more.

I’ve been throwing virtual machines on mine. I also do photo editing and video editing. So I’m in the prosumer territory

 

[Falhófnir]

If by professional you mean really high end workstations built for enterprise first, then no. For me the lack of enterprise grade components precludes these machines being proper professional mobile workstations; but then you could also say the same of most of the computers' competitors. A mobile version of the iMac Pro would be what I'd call a truly professional laptop, and it would likely start at $4,999 or more down to the more robust components with better resistance to failure (current keyboard would obviously fail on this front as well).

So what are they? Prosumer devices. Expensive, have a bit of oomph behind them, you can get serious work done on them - outside possibly of really heavy 3D animation and CAD and the like. But honestly they're 95% the same as a coffee-table Facebook Machine. I mean the 13" in particular literally checks all the boxes to be classified as an ultrabook, and the 15" is precious little more. But yeah, Jack of all trades that will be just as at home doing some 4K video editing for Youtube, in an office environment doing that sort of work, or even literally being sat used for facebook/ general browsing (though honestly overkill on price & performance for latter uses).

 

[pshufd]

If by professional you mean really high end workstations built for enterprise first, then no. For me the lack of enterprise grade components precludes these machines being proper professional mobile workstations; but then you could also say the same of most of the computers' competitors. A mobile version of the iMac Pro would be what I'd call a truly professional laptop, and it would likely start at $4,999 or more down to the more robust components with better resistance to failure (current keyboard would obviously fail on this front as well).

So what are they? Prosumer devices. Expensive, have a bit of oomph behind them, you can get serious work done on them - outside possibly of really heavy 3D animation and CAD and the like. But honestly they're 95% the same as a coffee-table Facebook Machine. I mean the 13" in particular literally checks all the boxes to be classified as an ultrabook, and the 15" is precious little more. But yeah, Jack of all trades that will be just as at home doing some 4K video editing for Youtube, in an office environment doing that sort of work, or even literally being sat used for facebook/ general browsing (though honestly overkill on price & performance for latter uses).

In the old Dell Lattitude/Inspiron days, the Inspiron products actually provided better performance than the business professional models. The professional models, though, got longer support terms, and, perhaps more reliable (less new) components. It often took longer for new processors to make it to the Lattitude line compared to the Inspiron line.

 

[MacNut]

The MacBook Pro is what Apple considers a pro machine. Are there better professional machines on the market, sure. If you want a pro laptop from Apple you have your choice. If you want a thicker workstation machine look elsewhere.

 

[2984839]

"Professional" is too broad a term. I'm sure that a new MBP would work fine for web devs, graphic designers, and many others. They don't work for me (network engineer) nor do I know any other network folks who use them. The lack of ports is really crippling.

 

[mavericks7913]

You're linking two different and very unrelated topics.

Does apple cater or market to the professional sector?
Is the laptop of high quality, defect free and/or the design is solid?

The issues with the keyboard for instance is not evidence for apple's indifference towards professionals. You can't say well my keyboard failed so that means apple hates professionals.

The keyboard itself IS proving the fact that Apple does not care about professionals users at all. Even 3rd gen didnt solve this problem. It is very difficult to understand that the keyboard is fragile.

Also, MacBook with a touch bar has tons of issues that Apple didnt even try to fix. They ignored flaxgate and T2 security chip. I totally doubt what you are saying in here.
[doublepost=1555742021][/doublepost]

Did you even read my post?

"that a professional can rely on" ... what does that even mean?

speaker issue? staingate? have you even met a professional? do you even understand what is actually important?

You are more than welcome to buy something else..... From your posts, you should be well suited with a Windows machine for your high school classes.

lol I've been using professional gears for more than 5 years including Mac Pro and I found MacBook Pro with a touch bar to be pathetic as it has tons of issues since the beginning. The build quality is MORE important and yet you are ignoring this. Who would wanna use the fragile and unreliable computer for their works? Mac Pro 2013 is a great example of how Apple treated professional users.

 

[Garage Battle]

Its a prosumer laptop. It has the specs in some places to do work, but its held back by consumer grade choices to shave money and quality off of a product that used to be a good fit for professionals. before it was serviceable, with most of the important components reliable (screen, keyboard, logic board) but now the keyboard is unreliable and the screen cable is weak/poorly designed, and the charge ports can wear out. the old model did not have these problems - but the new one does - so its no longer a pro device.

 

[retta283]

10 years ago I would've said yes. Now, I'm not so sure. There is not as much difference between the models, which makes the Pro seem less professional. The failure of the butterfly keyboard also challenges this thought. Most would expect a professional machine to be rugged and well-built.

The displays are excellent for sure, though. If the keyboards were better I would own a current MBP just for the stunning display.

 

[maflynn]

They ignored flaxgate and T2 security chip.

Actually you're incorrect in those items. Apple has introduced a silent fix to flexgate and the 2018 MBP has a longer ribbon cable. As for the T2, it affects a small percentage of users and that number has dramatically shrunk with each update. It appears the T2 instability has largely been resolved.

I totally doubt what you are saying in here.

That's fine, because your logic totally doesn't make sense. Apple's butterfly keyboard is not evidence of apple's indifference towards professionals. The butterfly keyboard is a failed design to be sure but one born out of apple's obsession with thinness. As I posted earlier, many professionals are happily using the MBP and that shows that the MBP is a professional laptop.

You disagree, and that's fine, all I can say is vote with your wallet and don't buy the MBP.

 

[Queen6]

Actually you're incorrect in those items. Apple has introduced a silent fix to flexgate and the 2018 MBP has a longer ribbon cable. As for the T2, it affects a small percentage of users and that number has dramatically shrunk with each update. It appears the T2 instability has largely been resolved.


That's fine, because your logic totally doesn't make sense. Apple's butterfly keyboard is not evidence of apple's indifference towards professionals. The butterfly keyboard is a failed design to be sure but one born out of apple's obsession with thinness. As I posted earlier, many professionals are happily using the MBP and that shows that the MBP is a professional laptop.

You disagree, and that's fine, all I can say is vote with your wallet and don't buy the MBP.

The Butterfly keyboard and you know it, precludes any serious usage by default as it's unreliable and can take an inordinate amount of time to repair. Making the MBP unsuitable for any professional usage, let alone the dire ergonomics...

Q-6

 

[Lee_Bo]

The Butterfly keyboard and you know it, precludes any serious usage by default as it's unreliable and can take an inordinate amount of time to repair. Making the MBP unsuitable for any professional usage, let alone the dire ergonomics...

Q-6

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but (knocking on wood) my keyboard has given me zero issues.

 

[Queen6]

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but (knocking on wood) my keyboard has given me zero issues.

Good luck and all the best, my 2015 MB was great until the "E" key jammed. The Butterfly keyboard is simply a poor design for all the wrong reasons...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

The Butterfly keyboard and you know it, precludes any serious usage by default as it's unreliable and can take an inordinate amount of time to repair. Making the MBP unsuitable for any professional usage, let alone the dire ergonomics...

Q-6

I read that many people are happy with them so it doesn't appear to happen in all cases.

That the keyboard can't be repaired at smaller levels is a concern. But one could always use an external keyboard which is what I usually do. Of course a customer spending $4,000 probably doesn't want to have to deal with potential keyboard issues nor even having to return their laptops to Apple for repair or replacement.

My approach is to carry two MacBook Pros around with me. If one isn't Pro enough, two certainly would provide enough horsepower, battery life and display space.
[doublepost=1555765415][/doublepost]

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but (knocking on wood) my keyboard has given me zero issues.

There may be some production issues involved as well and I'd imagine that those are hard to nail down. It seems like Apple has very tight tolerances and a small production variance could be the problem. My favorite keyboard is from the 2007 and 2008 MacBook Pros. They have nice travel and sculpted keys. Mine still works - but the display failed.

 

[Zigman]

Any device can be used in a professional role, what precludes the MacBook Pro is the unreliability of the Butterfly Keyboard...

Q-6

I bought an earlier version of the Dell XPS 15 and the keyboard starting failing pretty quickly. The keys on the replacement laptop also started making sticking noise. The space bar and other keys repeatedly used. The XPS 15 was geared toward business professionals...

 

[Queen6]

I read that many people are happy with them so it doesn't appear to happen in all cases.

That the keyboard can't be repaired at smaller levels is a concern. But one could always use an external keyboard which is what I usually do. Of course a customer spending $4,000 probably doesn't want to have to deal with potential keyboard issues nor even having to return their laptops to Apple for repair or replacement.

My approach is to carry two MacBook Pros around with me. If one isn't Pro enough, two certainly would provide enough horsepower, battery life and display space.

I always travel with a primary and secondary notebook, nor does the MBP come close to the performance...

ROG GL703GS this is what Intel's 8750H can deliver in a competent chassis...

Q-6
[doublepost=1555766012][/doublepost]

I bought an earlier version of the Dell XPS 15 and the keyboard starting failing pretty quickly. The keys on the replacement laptop also started making sticking noise. The space bar and other keys repeatedly used. The XPS 15 was geared toward business professionals...

Sometimes the label on the box doesn't meet description, I don't buy into Dell either...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

I bought an earlier version of the Dell XPS 15 and the keyboard starting failing pretty quickly. The keys on the replacement laptop also started making sticking noise. The space bar and other keys repeatedly used. The XPS 15 was geared toward business professionals...

I had similar problems with the XPS 13 in the past and Dell just replaced the keyboard with a different design. I see the XPS line as more prosumer than professional but that's because of the section of their old, online website and where they directed business and consumer buyers. The XPS line is quite good - I have been surprised at Dell's propensity to cheap out on minor areas when they do a good job overall.
[doublepost=1555766174][/doublepost]

I always travel with a primary and secondary notebook, nor does the MBP come close to the performance...
View attachment 833053
ROG GL703GS this is what Intel's 8750H can deliver in a competent chassis...

Q-6
[doublepost=1555766012][/doublepost]

Sometimes the label on the box doesn't meet description, I don't buy into Dell either...

Q-6

Does the performance of the other system include two screens? 12 hours of battery life? The ability to use two different networks at the same time. The combined number of ports of two 2015 MacBook Pros?

I'm picking up a third one on Monday or Tuesday. I don't think that I'll carry around all three but I did use to carry around the 17 inch MacBook Pro and a Dell laptop. I think that combined weight was about 16 pounds.

 

[maflynn]

The Butterfly keyboard and you know it, precludes any serious usage by default as it's unreliable and can take an inordinate amount of time to repair. Making the MBP unsuitable for any professional usage, let alone the dire ergonomics...

Q-6

Here's my thinking, the MBP is a professional laptop and many pros are using it. The butterfly keyboard is a design flaw, no doubt about it. My point is that the keyboard is not evidence that suggests apple no longer cares or caters to the professional market. These are two different topics, durability and role of the laptop

 

[pshufd]

Here's my thinking, the MBP is a professional laptop and many pros are using it. The butterfly keyboard is a design flaw, no doubt about it. My point is that the keyboard is not evidence that suggests apple no longer cares or caters to the professional market. These are two different topics, durability and role of the laptop

I think that it's more reliability than durability.

Ultimately Apple can just replace the keyboards. Professionals want reliability - that is it works when you need it to.

 

[maflynn]

Professionals want reliability - that is it works when you need it to.

Agreed, but I stand by my sentiment that since people use the laptop for work, its a professional laptop.

 

[pshufd]

Agreed, but I stand by my sentiment that since people use the laptop for work, its a professional laptop.

I would agree with that.

Companies give them out to professional employees to do their work too.

 

[Queen6]

I had similar problems with the XPS 13 in the past and Dell just replaced the keyboard with a different design. I see the XPS line as more prosumer than professional but that's because of the section of their old, online website and where they directed business and consumer buyers. The XPS line is quite good - I have been surprised at Dell's propensity to cheap out on minor areas when they do a good job overall.
[doublepost=1555766174][/doublepost]

Does the performance of the other system include two screens? 12 hours of battery life? The ability to use two different networks at the same time. The combined number of ports of two 2015 MacBook Pros?

I'm picking up a third one on Monday or Tuesday. I don't think that I'll carry around all three but I did use to carry around the 17 inch MacBook Pro and a Dell laptop. I think that combined weight was about 16 pounds.

Over 10 hours with the 2 in 1, the ROG is all about performance. 16lb more like 16 kilos if it cant fly, its of little use to me...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

Over 10 hours with the 2 in 1, the ROG is all about performance. 16lb more like 16 kilos if it cant fly, its of little use to me...

Q-6

I don't need absolute performance. I need a system for development and a system for trading and they have to support running on two separate networks. I have to hit the gym today.

 

[Falhófnir]

In the old Dell Lattitude/Inspiron days, the Inspiron products actually provided better performance than the business professional models. The professional models, though, got longer support terms, and, perhaps more reliable (less new) components. It often took longer for new processors to make it to the Lattitude line compared to the Inspiron line.

Yeah all the extra testing takes its toll on the time to market of enterprise components, but you can rely on them more to just run and run without needing to be serviced and will hopefully have a lower rate of failure.