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Quickly becoming the de-facto enterprise computer standard. That's what unparalleled security and incredibly cheaper maintenance costs buy you.

Mac sales can double in a very short time.

I'm calling bull. The keyboard is a major issue. My employer, 35k+ employees, has had a ban on macbook pro purchases for the last year and half simply because of the keyboard alone. Very high failure rate and causing downtime having to send them in to get "fixed".

You're always the ridiculous optimist in this forum beyond common sense.
[doublepost=1516069928][/doublepost]
DDR4 uses up way more power than LPDDR4. Intel won’t support more than 16GB with LPDDR4 until 2019 the earliest. Apple is using LPDDR3 in the MacBook Pro.

So... that's Apple's decision then. NOT Intel's. You just said it yourself. How about apple get's their head out of their arse and give us a bigger battery with.. dare is say the one horrible word that is not allowed in Apple's hallways, THICKER, design to accommodate it.
[doublepost=1516070002][/doublepost]
Out of curiosity, what is it you are running that requires 32GB of RAM? Adding RAM is no longer the no-brainer it used to be. For most people, 8GB is sufficient.

Share the stats. Don't ASSume and don't speak for everyone. If you show me the data, I'll keep my mouth shut.
 
I'm calling bull. The keyboard is a major issue. My employer, 35k+ employees, has had a ban on macbook pro purchases for the last year and half simply because of the keyboard alone. Very high failure rate and causing downtime having to send them in to get "fixed".

You're always the ridiculous optimist in this forum beyond common sense.
[doublepost=1516069928][/doublepost]

So... that's Apple's decision then. NOT Intel's. You just said it yourself. How about apple get's their head out of their arse and give us a bigger battery with.. dare is say the one horrible word that is not allowed in Apple's hallways, THICKER, design to accommodate it.
[doublepost=1516070002][/doublepost]

Share the stats. Don't ASSume and don't speak for everyone. If you show me the data, I'll keep my mouth shut.
No, it’s Intel who designed the chipset. Apple’s only choice to expand to 32GB would drain the battery much more quickly. People like you would be complaining about why the battery runs out after just a few hours.
[doublepost=1516070788][/doublepost]
I'm calling bull. The keyboard is a major issue. My employer, 35k+ employees, has had a ban on macbook pro purchases for the last year and half simply because of the keyboard alone. Very high failure rate and causing downtime having to send them in to get "fixed".

You're always the ridiculous optimist in this forum beyond common sense.
[doublepost=1516069928][/doublepost]

So... that's Apple's decision then. NOT Intel's. You just said it yourself. How about apple get's their head out of their arse and give us a bigger battery with.. dare is say the one horrible word that is not allowed in Apple's hallways, THICKER, design to accommodate it.
[doublepost=1516070002][/doublepost]

Share the stats. Don't ASSume and don't speak for everyone. If you show me the data, I'll keep my mouth shut.
I'm calling bull. The keyboard is a major issue. My employer, 35k+ employees, has had a ban on macbook pro purchases for the last year and half simply because of the keyboard alone. Very high failure rate and causing downtime having to send them in to get "fixed".

You're always the ridiculous optimist in this forum beyond common sense.
[doublepost=1516069928][/doublepost]

So... that's Apple's decision then. NOT Intel's. You just said it yourself. How about apple get's their head out of their arse and give us a bigger battery with.. dare is say the one horrible word that is not allowed in Apple's hallways, THICKER, design to accommodate it.
[doublepost=1516070002][/doublepost]

Share the stats. Don't ASSume and don't speak for everyone. If you show me the data, I'll keep my mouth shut.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-much-ram-do-you-need/
 
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Out of curiosity, what is it you are running that requires 32GB of RAM? Adding RAM is no longer the no-brainer it used to be. For most people, 8GB is sufficient.
You’re living in a bubble; an annoyingly uneducated, presumptious, web surfing/word processing bubble. Stick to what “most people” need, and get yourself a twelve inch MacBook.
 
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Since Apple has not had a major upgrade to its MacBook product line since the releases of its new MacBook Pro devices at the end of 2016...

This is just wrong.

On 5 June 2017, Apple upgraded the internals of the MacBook Pro, such as enhanced Intel and AMD Radeon graphics, Kaby Lake processors, and added memory. Additionally, the 13-inch MacBook Pro now comes with a 128 GB storage option (down from the base 256 GB storage) with a lowered starting price of $1299 U.S. All other configurations of the MacBook Pro have the same U.S. price as last year, barring the incremental upgrades in processors and graphics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro
 
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You’re living in a bubble; an annoyingly uneducated, presumptious, web surfing/word processing bubble. Stick to what “most people” need, and get yourself a twelve inch MacBook.
It’s a legitimate question. I’ve had Safari, Parallels, Excel, Outlook, Word, and Photos open and my 8GB MBP is barely swapping out. People overestimate their RAM needs nowadays. Swaps to NVMe SSDs are a lot quicker than swaps to hard drives.
[doublepost=1516074025][/doublepost]
Probably sitting on a lot of stock because of bad sales.
So why update until they unload these on some suckers.
Mac sales set a record in 2017.
[doublepost=1516074140][/doublepost]
You’re living in a bubble; an annoyingly uneducated, presumptious, web surfing/word processing bubble. Stick to what “most people” need, and get yourself a twelve inch MacBook.
Says someone who insists that you need 32GB to post to Twitter.
[doublepost=1516074419][/doublepost]
You’re living in a bubble; an annoyingly uneducated, presumptious, web surfing/word processing bubble. Stick to what “most people” need, and get yourself a twelve inch MacBook.
I run Quicken 2017 in Parallels since the Mac version still sucks. And I keep my budgets in Excel 2016, edit in Photos, scan and run OCR for those companies who still insist on sending me paper statements and have lots of tabs open in Safari. And guess what. A 12” MacBook with 8GB is just fine even when everything is open. People like you underestimate the power of personal computers these days.
 
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The issue is that Apple management thinks that all laptops should be designed for a single demographic like anemic vegans (jwdsail, thank you for the term). .

Yeah, I've been grumpy the past couple of weeks...

Lots of long days/late nights, depending on my 2012 to keep going... wishing Apple would sell me the upgrade I want.

So grumpy, I forgot: "And GIT OFF MY LAWN!" and "www.apple.com/feedback"
 
I use one of those on a daily basis, the performance is really disappointing, especially for the amount of money Apple charge.

Ol
[doublepost=1516075466][/doublepost]If your running a task that requires 32gb, or even 16gb, you probably want the laptop plugged in. The battery will be eaten. Likely that the kind of application(s) that require that amount of memory will also have high CPU usage.


DDR4 uses up way more power than LPDDR4. Intel won’t support more than 16GB with LPDDR4 until 2019 the earliest. Apple is using LPDDR3 in the MacBook Pro.
 
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I use one of those on a daily basis, the performance is really disappointing, especially for the amount of money Apple charge.


Ol
[doublepost=1516075466][/doublepost]If your running a task that requires 32gb, or even 16gb, you probably want the laptop plugged in. The battery will be eaten. Likely that the kind of application(s) that require that amount of memory will also have high CPU usage.
What are you running? Just curious. I’d guess that most people don’t need that much computing power.
 
I think this year it'll be Kaby Lake + Radeon Vega for the 15" MacBook Pro so in effect a GPU upgrade with a slight clock speed bump to 3.1GHz for the 15". There is a 2.8Ghz i5 variant which retains the multi threading so perhaps a cheaper entry level for the 15".

Currently announced Kaby Lake R CPUs are 15w with only UHD620 graphics which probably fall below the Iris Plus Graphics standard which Apple want in their 13" laptops. It's looking possible that we'll keep the improved graphics at the expense of additional cores.

There's also the prospect of a small price cut or storage bump if they genuinely don't bump the CPU because they have something better coming next year too. I believe they did a price cut with the 2014 models.
It is ridiculous that in 2018, the 13" macbook "pro" is only dual-core. At minimum, these should be 4-core laptops at this point. I feel the same about the Macbooks (though not that they should have had 4-core previously, since there weren't any ultra-low power 4-cores on the market suitable).
I would really like a Macbook as a light portable -- but I will not buy one until Apple has added a second port, preferably, Thunderbolt 3. Just as in this article, the original Macbook Air had ONE port. How many are there now? haha. I don't expect there would ever be a 5-port Macbook, but at least 2 ports.
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Make gimmicky Touch Bar optional. Thank you.
They should only keep the fingerprint sensor -- unless they add Face ID.
[doublepost=1516078723][/doublepost]
No, it’s Intel who designed the chipset. Apple’s only choice to expand to 32GB would drain the battery much more quickly. People like you would be complaining about why the battery runs out after just a few hours.
[doublepost=1516070788][/doublepost]

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-much-ram-do-you-need/
Well -- 8 GB of RAM is not enough for my 2013 Macbook Pro Retina 15" with discrete GPU. The computer often gives me 'out of memory' errors when I use Photoshop and InDesign concurrently with a web browser (and maybe one other app). Very annoying. I did not have this problem on my much older iMac (which I have retired to my computer graveyard) which functions really well with 10GB.

And -- is anyone else finding that the latest 10.13.2 update has made your browser (Chrome) wonky/jumpy when scrolling? My newer iMac (2013 model) today spontaneously rebooted - which I think must have been a crash.
[doublepost=1516079944][/doublepost]
I'm not sure all of that is true.

You cannot upgrade the xps processor, true. But you can't upgrade the mbp processor either.

The NVIDIA GPU handily out performs the AMD GPU in the MBP in every metric. OpenGL (even though windows' openGL implementation really really sucks), openCL (by a huge margin), and in any benchmark you throw at it.

I'm not aware of the throttling in the Dell vs. the Mac. That could be, though I'd like to see a link demonstrating that. Every benchmark I have seen of the XPS vs. the MBP shows the XPS winning by roughly 5 to 10%. But that may have been the earlier model MBP with the (now) two generation old CPU vs. the Dell which was one generation newer at the time.

Finally, roughly $900 for my machine (with the ram upgrade) vs. over $2000 for the MBP with similar performance, less ram, and zero upgradability is the final and most important metric.

I really like the build quality of the Mac. But the XPS isn't that much worse (and the keyboard is slightly better from what I've read). I also really really really prefer MacOS. But that preference is not worth north of $1200 to me. I'd pay, at most, a $300 premium for MacOS. And with the absolute lack of upgradeability, that number drops to the point where the Mac would have to be cheaper to make me consider it.

Just looking at the comments on this (a Mac fan site) shows that I'm not alone. Apple kind of flubbed it big time with their current lineup. I hope they get their old mojo back. But I doubt it.
[doublepost=1516060146][/doublepost]
Except that I'm mostly running CentOS 7
For me the Apple premium is worthwhile as long as I upgrade to the exact model I want. My 2013 Retina MBP is still running perfectly and handles everything I do (Photoshop, InDesign, Excel 2011, Chrome, Safari, Illustrator) -- I screwed up when I made the purchase because I thought that 8GB RAM would be enough for solid performance. It isn't - for my use scenario. So, I won't make that mistake again with any Apple computer (even the Macbooks!). Each MacOs new version seems to utilize more system resources and RAM. Anyway, my point was going to be that, aside from RAM, my 5-year old MBP still performs like a new machine. Battery health is even great (like 90%). So, that $2400 I spent bought good value and quality hardware (and software updates) - on my preferred platform of MacOs. Even a $1K difference isn't enough for me to switch to Windows.
 
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What problem would switching from Intel to ARM solve?

Intel i8 mobile CPUs provides up to 8 cores.
Some people love to more for less. Lol. ARM isn’t even on par with x86 at raw performance since they don’t scale that well at higher TDP. And say goodbye to all the 3rd party support, effectively bringing us back to the dark ages like the PowerPC era where the software library was like Windows Mobile.
 
Damn, people are harsh on the keyboard and Touch Bar here. I wonder how many actually own 2017 MacBook Pros. The 2016 was bound to have some problems because it was the first year of a new design, but is the 2017 really as bad as people say, or are these people that don't even own one? Two people on my team at work have 2016 MacBook Pros and neither one has complained about the keyboard or Touch Bar. I can't really weigh in because I own a 2015, but the keyboards on the 2016 and 2017 have seemed fine to me when I've played with them, and the Touch Bar looks cool and seems like it would be useful to me.

Please just read the forums, this thread and others and you will find many many people complaining with real issues. I assume from the 5 million Apple ships each qtr not each and everyone will fail but how many do? 1%? 10%? 50%? In particular over time. I want such a laptop to last for many many years.
 
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DDR4 uses up way more power than LPDDR4. Intel won’t support more than 16GB with LPDDR4 until 2019 the earliest. Apple is using LPDDR3 in the MacBook Pro.

So Apple should use BIGGER battery and not the SMALLER. At least in one 'Pro' model. 16GB in 2018 is a joke.
 
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I'm glad this rumour was posted. I was debating taking back my new Dell XPS 15 and holding out for a new 2018 MBP with a fixed keyboard and minimal bezel screen but since this is likely not going to happen, I'm not going to wait anymore. I've been limping along with my cMBP since 2012, waiting for Apple to produce another laptop worthy of its price tag. How such a rich company can be so unproductive is beyond me. Nah, I'm beyond tired of waiting for you Apple, I'm going Dell now.

Yeah I prefer the MBP keyboards and track pads, but I also enjoy having ports, gorgeous antiglare infinity-edge screens, and components I can replace and upgrade. Above all, this XPS 15 I bought on sale for over $1000 less than the three year old 2015 MBP I was thinking of buying. Dell even has a cool rewards program which I plan on using towards a KVM-switching/ PiP Dell monitor and a matching docking station. It can do 32GB of RAM and you can even install a second hard drive in it. I've seen some people install MacOS on it too.

After all these years I would preach "once you go Mac you never go back". Well, I was wrong.
 
It’s a legitimate question. I’ve had Safari, Parallels, Excel, Outlook, Word, and Photos open and my 8GB MBP is barely swapping out. People overestimate their RAM needs nowadays. Swaps to NVMe SSDs are a lot quicker than swaps to hard drives.
[doublepost=1516074025][/doublepost]
Mac sales set a record in 2017.
[doublepost=1516074140][/doublepost]
Says someone who insists that you need 32GB to post to Twitter.
[doublepost=1516074419][/doublepost]
I run Quicken 2017 in Parallels since the Mac version still sucks. And I keep my budgets in Excel 2016, edit in Photos, scan and run OCR for those companies who still insist on sending me paper statements and have lots of tabs open in Safari. And guess what. A 12” MacBook with 8GB is just fine even when everything is open. People like you underestimate the power of personal computers these days.

So, I was right. You have an amazingly light workload for a professional machine. I run a business with mine, which includes php dev and large database operations, and over a dozen active applications with multiple monitors. I’m swapping my 16GB regularly, as I do on my 32GB desktop, so don’t presume you know anything about my work, pleb.

You know nothing about computing, or anything that approaches an actual demanding workflow.
 
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It’s a legitimate question. I’ve had Safari, Parallels, Excel, Outlook, Word, and Photos open and my 8GB MBP is barely swapping out. People overestimate their RAM needs nowadays. Swaps to NVMe SSDs are a lot quicker than swaps to hard drives.
[doublepost=1516074025][/doublepost]
Mac sales set a record in 2017.
[doublepost=1516074140][/doublepost]
Says someone who insists that you need 32GB to post to Twitter.
[doublepost=1516074419][/doublepost]
I run Quicken 2017 in Parallels since the Mac version still sucks. And I keep my budgets in Excel 2016, edit in Photos, scan and run OCR for those companies who still insist on sending me paper statements and have lots of tabs open in Safari. And guess what. A 12” MacBook with 8GB is just fine even when everything is open. People like you underestimate the power of personal computers these days.

Not wanting to get in the middle of an argument, but I thought I'd offer my use case:

I do 3D content creation (mostly fully CG environments for feature films). My desktop machine (12 core XEON) has 72GB of RAM.

I wanted a laptop that I could use to do some of that work while "mobile".* For this I need as much grunt as I can get, and 32GB of RAM lets me at least open some smaller scenes. I can then work on elements of a scene before transferring them back to my workstation (running centOS). 16GB is far too limiting for me.

I know I am an outlier, but then again Apple did apply the moniker "pro" to their machine. Unfortunately, for me, "pro" means more than what they offer (and especially at the price point that they offer it at). For me (sadly, because I dig MacOS) "pro" now means a PC laptop.


*"mobile" for me means off-site, but still plugged into an outlet. 4 to 8 threads running full tilt plus a dedicated GPU means the limited battery life of any machine (but especially non Apple laptops) is incredibly short.
 
Not wanting to get in the middle of an argument, but I thought I'd offer my use case:

I do 3D content creation (mostly fully CG environments for feature films). My desktop machine (12 core XEON) has 72GB of RAM.

I wanted a laptop that I could use to do some of that work while "mobile".* For this I need as much grunt as I can get, and 32GB of RAM lets me at least open some smaller scenes. I can then work on elements of a scene before transferring them back to my workstation (running centOS). 16GB is far too limiting for me.

I know I am an outlier, but then again Apple did apply the moniker "pro" to their machine. Unfortunately, for me, "pro" means more than what they offer (and especially at the price point that they offer it at). For me (sadly, because I dig MacOS) "pro" now means a PC laptop.


*"mobile" for me means off-site, but still plugged into an outlet. 4 to 8 threads running full tilt plus a dedicated GPU means the limited battery life of any machine (but especially non Apple laptops) is incredibly short.

You’re really not an outlier, at least not in the pro/prosumer scene. Presumptious ignoramuses who think they use their machines for real work because they run some accounting apps and a VM THINK we are, as do other trendoids.
 
Ultimately everyone needs to buy what works for them. In my case, Apple has blown it repeatedly. (I just purchased a used 12 core Xeon with 72 GB ram for $550 instead of getting a much less powerful used Mac Pro for way way more money). They just aren't meeting my needs anymore. [...] I do 3D vfx work for film (a very tiny market), but I'm also value conscious. That's kind of opposite of what Apple is after. They want bigger markets for lower performance machines at a bigger markup. That's good for them, but it means I'm left looking elsewhere for my needs.

Sure, but you can't really expect anyone to sell a workstation computer at those prices if the CPUs alone (for wholesale prices with direct orders from Intel) are over $1000. You can get a great bargain on anything if you look around, show some creativity and buy used. Apple already sells the iMac Pro at an excellent price — you'd be hard to match it even if you build a comparable computer yourself. But I certainly understand where you are coming from.
 
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Griffin sells a MagSafe-like USB-C power cable, though I agree an Apple option would be nice. For USB-A there are bud-sized adapters that can pretty much bolt on, though I prefer short cables given how close the USB-C ports are.

Apple has never been shy about dropping legacy ports to try to move the industry. Keeping legacy ports just slows the transition. Heck, many Windows notebooks still have VGA ports. That’s why that ancient tech has hung around for so long.
I have nothing against moving forward and dropping obsolete ports etc. I had no issues whatsoever with dropping the floppy disc, the CD / DVD and other ports that are no longer necessary. The problem is that USB-C is not mature yet, let alone when it was first launched in 2016. Dongles are a really poor solution to a problem a working pro should not have to deal with in 2018 which is why so few of my photographer friends have upgraded. Normally after a new MacBook is released the press rooms at big events very quickly fill up with shiny new Macs, this time however instead most people hang on to what they have and black PC boxes have started appearing.

I totally understand that for some people USB-A is not necessary, in my industry however it still is and probably will be for another 5 years or so. Client constantly ask for USB sticks, HD's etc that are all USB-A. Hopefully Apple will release a true MacBook Pro for people that are actually working with their macs and care more about pro features than weight.
[doublepost=1516100392][/doublepost]
you use keystrokes without ever looking at the keyboard?
that's baloney.
unless, maybe, you only have a couple of shortcuts..

also, why use F-keys as shortcuts on Mac anyway? those are hardware keys.


you mean you actually turn off the hardware controls in favor of F-key shortcuts? or you use fn key without looking?

(now, if Apple figured out a way to make them context aware.. like, they're hardware controls when it makes sense for them to be.. or they're software controls which are available when it makes sense..
then that would be pretty sweet)
----

idk, something isn't adding up right in your story.. srry
o_O
Have you ever heard about touch typing. Yes thanks, I use keystrokes without looking at the keyboard like all good typist have been for the last 100 years or so.

Yes, exactly that, I set up the F-Keys to be shortcuts in various apps instead. Then you have to press fn + Function Key to access the standard functions assigned by Apple.

It works well in my work flow as I can assign any Photoshop shortcut / action to the function keys. With a touchbar this would be impossible as they have no tactile feel.

I really don't understand why so many people on this forum are so against choice. TouchBar for those who want it and standard function keys for those who don't. That way I can spend the £400 odd that the touchbar adds to the price on more SSD space or a RAM upgrade instead.
 
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You should send your resumee to Qualcomm's Centriq team. I'm sure they can use an expert like you.
You also seem to be unaware of the fact that most Mac devs don't write in assembler anymore.

Some people love to more for less. Lol. ARM isn’t even on par with x86 at raw performance since they don’t scale that well at higher TDP. And say goodbye to all the 3rd party support, effectively bringing us back to the dark ages like the PowerPC era where the software library was like Windows Mobile.
 
No updates. Here's a few that spring to mind, in case you've forgotten, Apple.

•Make the Gimmick-bar optional.
•32+GB Ram options across the Pro range.
•nVidia GPUs for those who want/need to use CUDA.
•Option to choose between old and new keyboard design.
•Re-introduction of the Anti-glare option.
•Re-introduction of the 17" model.
•Non soldered, user accessible Ram & SSD.
•Re-introduction of the illuminated Apple logo on the back of the display.

(yeah I know... there's about 0.0000000000001% change of any of this materialising).
Oh I don't know... I think the 32GB of RAM is possible. Not even a slight chance of any of the other stuff though.
[doublepost=1516104077][/doublepost]
Yes, exactly that, I set up the F-Keys to be shortcuts in various apps instead. Then you have to press fn + Function Key to access the standard functions assigned by Apple.

It works well in my work flow as I can assign any Photoshop shortcut / action to the function keys.

You should try using Fluor. It automatically switches between Apple's preset F-Keys and your custom ones... In other words, you can adjust brightness without using the fn key when in the Finder or Safari, etc., but when you're in Photoshop it will use your custom PS shortcut.

I was using Palua for this for years, but the developer has fallen off the face of the earth - which lead me to find Fluor.
 
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