MacBook Pro Retina - battery replacement?

[ValSalva]

You bring it into apple and pay a lot of money for a new one (I think its in the neighborhood of 200)

Its glued in, so its more then just a simple swap.

Yes, and the glue is very strong. Wondering if it's an assembly where the motherboard/keyboard is also replaced. I can't see Apple heat-gunning it to twist the battery modules out.

 

[GGJstudios]

I didn't say you had to shut down rather than sleep, but it will retain more battery life

No, it won't. If you use sleep mode while plugged in, it does not use battery at all.

keeping your battery above 50% avoids a complete drain and recharge which is actually one of the main culprits for killing your battery.

You can avoid completely draining it if you use it to 40%, 30%, 20%, 10%, 5%, etc. As long as you don't drop it to zero, any percentage is fine.

Keeping your laptop plugged in unless you're in a situation where you can't actually plug in also prolongs your battery life

No, it doesn't. Many people use their MBPs primarily at their desk, some with an external display. For those people, they rarely are in a situation where they can't plug in, yet for battery health, they should unplug and run on battery for a few hours every few days, to keep the battery healthy. Those who use battery more than being plugged in will frequently have better battery health and lifespan than those who primarily stay plugged in.

Shutting down your computer has a number of benefits including stopping your battery from overheating particularly when it is in your carry bag which is another culprit for killing batteries,

The battery won't overheat in a bag. The battery only gets warmer when charging. The primary sources of heat in a MBP is the CPU and GPU, not the battery.

the amount of times I've seen a sleeping laptop with the fans running at 100% causing permanent damage to your logic board and also your battery is just flat out ridiculous

If the fans are running at 100%, the MBP is obviously not in sleep mode. Having the fans run at 100% will not cause any damage to the logic board. The Intel chips are designed to shut down if temps rise above a safe level, specifically to avoid damage. You have never seen a logic board damaged by fans spinning or temps getting too high. You may have seen them fail due to manufacturing defects or other components failing, but not from the scenario you describe, as they are designed to avoid any such failure.

shut down your Mac... and while you're at it keeping your laptop running in a hot car, and running your laptop whilst in bed is not best practice either.

So because your earlier unqualified comment about shutting down vs sleep was poor advice, you now try to introduce qualifications such as a MBP running with fans at full speed in a bag, or leaving a MBP running in a hot car or running it in bed, trying to find a scenario that will make your recommendation plausible.

It's fine to use your MBP within the specified operating limits, which are:

Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)

And using your MBP in bed is perfectly safe, unless you block the vents.

There is no merit in your corrections in fact many of them are largely inaccurate.

My statements are completely accurate and come directly from Apple's own documented statements about battery use. Try reading the Apple Notebook Battery FAQ, which was compiled from Apple documentation.

With a modern MacBook with an SSD it's also just as easy to shut down and reboot as it is to send your computer to sleep,

I didn't say anything about the ease or speed of shutting down vs sleep mode. If your computer is shut down at the time that OS X maintenance tasks are scheduled to run, those tasks will not run. If your Mac is in sleep mode at the scheduled time however, the tasks will run the next time your Mac is awake. So there is an advantage in using sleep mode vs shutting down.

And a modern lithium ion battery is best stored at 51% charge in order to not caused damage to the battery when not in use, So lets actually get the facts straight mmmkay?

Again, you should read the Battery FAQ to educate yourself. You're confusing regular use with long-term storage. The statement from Apple is this:

Long-Term Storage
If you don’t plan on using your notebook for more than six months, Apple recommends that you store the battery with a 50% charge.

mmmkay?

There will be plenty of times where none of the above can be achieved and that's fine your battery will get used, one way or another.

That completely depends on the usage habits of the user. As already stated, some use their MBP only as a desktop replacement, so only using battery when they're not able to plug in would mean they would never run on battery power, which Apple specifically warns against:

Standard Maintenance
For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it’s important to keep the electrons in it moving occasionally. Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time.

There is just a really simple and easy way above to prolong the usage you get out of those cycles and it'd pay good dividends to yourself if you actually listened to what I was saying rather than reading between the lines and coming up with baloney.

I'll continue to trust and promote the recommendations from Apple more than the misinformation you posted. My guess is they know a bit more about their own hardware than most users.

 

[Fiendishone]

Thank you GGJstudios the article on Apple Notebook Battery FAQ was very informative. I always thought that it was a good idea to empty batteries and then re-charge, I was once told that that way they get a good work-out and it encouraged them to work better for longer.

I checked out iSatPro, but, unfortunately, it has been discontinued and I had already downloaded CoconutBattery. Although reading the article it described how to look up the information through the apple logo top left.

 

[GGJstudios]

I checked out iSatPro, but, unfortunately, it has been discontinued and I had already downloaded CoconutBattery. Although reading the article it described how to look up the information through the apple logo top left.

Yes, you can find battery health information in System Profiler. It doesn't express health in a percentage, so you have to do the calculation, and it's not as easy to access as a widget. Although iStat Pro is no longer being updated by the developer, who directed their attention to iStat Menus, you can still use it. I'm running it on Mavericks and it works great. You can download it here. Yes, you can use CoconutBattery, but iStat Pro give you so much more information about your Mac. Also, CoconutBattery has had some accuracy issues in the past, so I trust iStat Pro more. Of course, use whatever you prefer.

 

[orestes1984]

No, it won't. If you use sleep mode while plugged in, it does not use battery at all.

You can avoid completely draining it if you use it to 40%, 30%, 20%, 10%, 5%, etc. As long as you don't drop it to zero, any percentage is fine.

No, it doesn't. Many people use their MBPs primarily at their desk, some with an external display. For those people, they rarely are in a situation where they can't plug in, yet for battery health, they should unplug and run on battery for a few hours every few days, to keep the battery healthy. Those who use battery more than being plugged in will frequently have better battery health and lifespan than those who primarily stay plugged in.

The battery won't overheat in a bag. The battery only gets warmer when charging. The primary sources of heat in a MBP is the CPU and GPU, not the battery.

If the fans are running at 100%, the MBP is obviously not in sleep mode. Having the fans run at 100% will not cause any damage to the logic board. The Intel chips are designed to shut down if temps rise above a safe level, specifically to avoid damage. You have never seen a logic board damaged by fans spinning or temps getting too high. You may have seen them fail due to manufacturing defects or other components failing, but not from the scenario you describe, as they are designed to avoid any such failure.

So because your earlier unqualified comment about shutting down vs sleep was poor advice, you now try to introduce qualifications such as a MBP running with fans at full speed in a bag, or leaving a MBP running in a hot car or running it in bed, trying to find a scenario that will make your recommendation plausible.

It's fine to use your MBP within the specified operating limits, which are:

Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)

And using your MBP in bed is perfectly safe, unless you block the vents.

My statements are completely accurate and come directly from Apple's own documented statements about battery use. Try reading the Apple Notebook Battery FAQ, which was compiled from Apple documentation.

I didn't say anything about the ease or speed of shutting down vs sleep mode. If your computer is shut down at the time that OS X maintenance tasks are scheduled to run, those tasks will not run. If your Mac is in sleep mode at the scheduled time however, the tasks will run the next time your Mac is awake. So there is an advantage in using sleep mode vs shutting down.

Again, you should read the Battery FAQ to educate yourself. You're confusing regular use with long-term storage. The statement from Apple is this:

mmmkay?

That completely depends on the usage habits of the user. As already stated, some use their MBP only as a desktop replacement, so only using battery when they're not able to plug in would mean they would never run on battery power, which Apple specifically warns against:


I'll continue to trust and promote the recommendations from Apple more than the misinformation you posted. My guess is they know a bit more about their own hardware than most users.

More rubbish, I've seen with my own eyes MacBooks in laptop bags with the fan running at 100%, that kind of temperature WILL damage your battery alone and you don't have the faintest clue on earth about what you're talking about.

Dropping your battery below 50% causes a full charge cycle which is what damages your battery. Running a half cycle does not cause near as much battery wear as draining your battery below 50% and it does not cause a full battery cycle to occur.

Needlessly unplugging your Mac when you're not using it in its environment away from mains power serves zero purpose other than to waste another battery cycle you could be using when you're actually using your MacBook away from your desk.

As for you discounting my own eyes, The machine was sleeping, the flashing/snoring light was going, the but the fans were running at 100% because the machine was 90% enclosed in a bag. again you don't know what your talking about. Blocking air circulation to your Mac even when it is asleep will cause it to overheat, damage your logic board, CPU, RAM, and among many other things also reduce the life of your battery.

I haven't introduced any qualifications, you've simply lost the argument and are adding your own tangent about things I'm not saying.

Scheduled tasks will run regardless, just set them to a time when your Machine is actually on, that's why they're called scheduled tasks.

You don't have any idea at all, I'm sorry but lol

 

[JD92]

So managed to get a free battery replacement from Applecare phone support because of a previous case ID where I was told/promised a new battery under warranty.

Though Manchester Arndale are refusing to honour the case ID claiming the battery is suddenly not consumed and has been fixed by clearing out dust. Not really washing with me but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I get to the store and check the status for myself.

Just going to take it out of its current repair and book it into the Trafford Centre and let them do the Apple Care phone case.

Absolutely ridiculous.

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Apple explicitly tell you not to keep it plugged into mains all the time. You don't know my usage pattern of how I've used my battery so I'd appreciate you not lecturing me on it, especially when you're telling me to use mains wherever possible which is not the case.

Glad you got it sorted. Both me and a friend have found that our local Genius Bar can be a bit difficult to deal with when it comes to battery issues.

 

[orestes1984]

It's not a matter of being difficult if it passes their hardware test. It's a matter of you consumed the battery, so there is no need to give you a free one.

 

[GGJstudios]

More rubbish, I've seen with my own eyes MacBooks in laptop bags with the fan running at 100%, that kind of temperature WILL damage your battery alone and you don't have the faintest clue on earth about what you're talking about.

How can you see if the fans are running at 100% if the MacBook is in a bag? Do you even know what speed 100% is? Fans don't damage batteries. Period.

Dropping your battery below 50% causes a full charge cycle which is what damages your battery.

False. Dropping below 50% doesn't cause a full cycle and cycles don't damage batteries.

Running a half cycle does not cause near as much battery wear as draining your battery below 50% and it does not cause a full battery cycle to occur.

You clearly are misinformed about how cycles work. Read WHAT IS A CYCLE? in the Battery FAQ for the facts.

Needlessly unplugging your Mac when you're not using it in its environment away from mains purpose serves zero purpose other than to waste another battery cycle you could be using when you're actually using your MacBook away from your desk.

False. Again, you are misinformed about Apple notebook batteries and how they are designed to work. It is clear you haven't yet read the Apple Notebook Battery FAQ or any of the individual articles by Apple on proper care and use of batteries.

Blocking air circulation to your Mac even when it is asleep will cause it to overheat, damage your logic board, CPU, RAM, and among many other things also reduce the life of your battery.

Again, if temps get above the safe operating range, your Mac will shut down before damage occurs. We're not talking about blocking air circulation. We're talking about battery use.

Scheduled tasks will run regardless, just set them to a time when your Machine is actually on, that's why they're called scheduled tasks.

It's quite apparent you don't understand the OS X maintenance scripts, in the same way you don't understand proper Apple notebook battery care and use.

 

[orestes1984]

********... I've had my fans at 100% and hard locked, it happens before you know it. More ********, once your battery drops below 50% it causes a full battery cycle to occur. and more ********... You have no clue, I have seen all of the above happen.

You are reading some technical document that is a load of **** and its people like you that are a danger to the way things actually happen in reality.

You just don't have a clue and you're ignoring someone who has real world experience, which is typical of this forum and Apple fandoms.

Your manual does not represent the reality, much like many people in HR who haven't seen the way the real world works and are an actual danger to the employees environment rather than a benefit to the company.

You keep reading that handbook mmkay?

 

[GGJstudios]

********... I've had my fans at 100% and hard locked, it happens before you know it. More ********, once your battery drops below 50% it causes a full battery cycle to occur. and more ********... You have no clue, I have seen all of the above happen.

You are reading some technical document that is a load of **** and its people like you that are a danger to the way things actually happen in reality.

You just don't have a clue and you're ignoring someone who has real world experience, which is typical of this forum and Apple fandoms.

Your manual does not represent the reality, much like many people in HR who haven't seen the way the real world works and are an actual danger to the employees environment rather than a benefit to the company.

You keep reading that handbook mmkay?

LOL! You clearly aren't familiar with my real world experience. Once you learn the facts, you'll understand.

 

[orestes1984]

LOL! You clearly aren't familiar with my real world experience. Once you learn the facts, you'll understand.

You're obviously not very good at what you do if you've never seen a machine hard locked at 100% fan output while sleeping

 

[x3n0n1c]

********... I've had my fans at 100% and hard locked, it happens before you know it. More ********, once your battery drops below 50% it causes a full battery cycle to occur. and more ********... You have no clue, I have seen all of the above happen.

You are reading some technical document that is a load of **** and its people like you that are a danger to the way things actually happen in reality.

You just don't have a clue and you're ignoring someone who has real world experience, which is typical of this forum and Apple fandoms.

Your manual does not represent the reality, much like many people in HR who haven't seen the way the real world works and are an actual danger to the employees environment rather than a benefit to the company.

You keep reading that handbook mmkay?

A cycle is a full drain of the entire capacity of the battery. You will have to drain and charge the laptop to and from 50% twice before a full cycle will be registered, that is just how it works.

The computer will need to be actively running in order for the fans to spin up when in sleep mode. The computer will generally use only a watt or two while in sleep, which will never generate enough heat to damage anything.

What you are describing is the laptop being woken out of sleep mode whilst still in the bag, an issue for sure, one that I have never seen on either of my Apple laptops. An old dell I own used to do that on occasion, thing was too hot to touch when I tried to remove it from the bag. Smelled like burnt plastic haha, still going strong though at over 7 years old.

 

[orestes1984]

I have seen and witnessed the above on more than once occasion, on multiple MacBooks. I live in a climate where the temperature is frequently above 30 degrees and often above 35. I have seen at least one MacBook of my own exhibit this behavior and it was red hot to touch so to say it doesn't happen is just lol worthy but typical of Apple fandoms

And there are many multiples of these discussions for this problem the typical Apple fandom ignores such as these with typical Apple fandom responses of "run disk first aid" or "reset the PRAM" which does exactly nothing for what is an inherently real problem caused by the environment the machine is sleeping in.

https://discussions.apple.com/message/23691124

Prolonged exposure to that kind of temperature will damage your computer period, let alone your battery. Read your manual if you will about prolonged exposure to heat, leaving your laptops in cars, etc, but I don't need a manual for what I have seen.

Depleting your charge below 50% simply does cause more damage than a half cycle or any other form of battery cycle that is a matter of proven fact with Lithium Ion batteries not just in MacBooks.

 

[GGJstudios]

I have seen and witnessed the above on more than once occasion, on multiple MacBooks. I live in a climate where the temperature is frequently above 30 degrees and often above 35.

Again, we're talking about battery use and care, not whether or not you choose to operate a MacBook outside Apple's operating limits. It is safe to use a MBP in an environment from 10C to 35C.

Depleting your charge below 50% simply does cause more damage than a half cycle or any other form of battery cycle that is a matter of proven fact with Lithium Ion batteries not just in MacBooks.

That is completely false and proves you don't understand battery cycles. Rather than continuing to post misinformation, why don't you read the Battery FAQ and educate yourself. Then your posts will be useful to others and won't require someone correcting you with facts.

And there are many multiples of these discussions for this problem the typical Apple fandom ignores such as these with typical Apple fandom responses of "run disk first aid" or "reset the PRAM" which does exactly nothing for what is an inherently real problem caused by the environment the machine is sleeping in.

PRAM/NVRAM has nothing to do with power/charging/battery issues. If fans are spinning up without increased heat, resetting the SMC can help.

 

[laurihoefs]

Dropping your battery below 50% causes a full charge cycle which is what damages your battery. Running a half cycle does not cause near as much battery wear as draining your battery below 50% and it does not cause a full battery cycle to occur.

Discharging to 50% and then charging back to 100% is only half a cycle.

Needlessly unplugging your Mac when you're not using it in its environment away from mains power serves zero purpose other than to waste another battery cycle you could be using when you're actually using your MacBook away from your desk.

The battery will slowly degrade whether you use it or not. Occasionally discharging and recharging the battery at least a little has been shown to be beneficial. If working on battery power is a part of your workflow, then there's no need to discharge the battery separately. If you only use the computer on mains, then it might be a good idea to occasionally use it on battery power.

As for you discounting my own eyes, The machine was sleeping, the flashing/snoring light was going, the but the fans were running at 100% because the machine was 90% enclosed in a bag. again you don't know what your talking about. Blocking air circulation to your Mac even when it is asleep will cause it to overheat, damage your logic board, CPU, RAM, and among many other things also reduce the life of your battery.

You're obviously not very good at what you do if you've never seen a machine hard locked at 100% fan output while sleeping

More rubbish, I've seen with my own eyes MacBooks in laptop bags with the fan running at 100%, that kind of temperature WILL damage your battery alone and you don't have the faintest clue on earth about what you're talking about.

Sure, overheating will damage the battery. But if the fans are running, the laptop is not in sleep mode.

Some Mountain Lion and early Maverick versions had issues entering sleep mode, the laptop froze with a black screen and the fans kept running. After 10.9.2 was released, I have not seen this occur. If the computer is in sleep mode, the fans do not run.

Depleting your charge below 50% simply does cause more damage than a half cycle or any other form of battery cycle that is a matter of proven fact with Lithium Ion batteries not just in MacBooks.

The battery is not fully depleted even if the reported charge is 0%. There is still some charge left, the battery reading is the usable charge.

 

[orestes1984]

No, you stated, "I live in a climate where the temperature is frequently above 30 degrees and often above 35." Above 35C is beyond the recommended range for safe operation.

And again you're changing the point of question being raised here that locked in a bag without room for the ventilation on your MacBook to work properly it can get above 35 degrees by itself. Do a search for yourself next time and see the results.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...eping+100%+fan&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

 

[GGJstudios]

And again you're changing the point of question being raised here that locked in a bag without room for the ventilation on your MacBook to work properly it can get above 35 degrees by itself.

No, it won't if it's in sleep mode. If it gets hotter than that, it's obviously not in sleep mode, regardless of what the blinking light may tell you.

admit that your MacBook gets hot no matter the temperature that it is operating in whilst asleep and that sleeping your machine in its bag is simply not a good idea.

That is false, as well. Like millions of other users, I've kept many models of Apple notebooks sleeping in bags with zero heating problems.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
I think this topic has been beaten to death. Closing.