MacBook Pro Shortages Continue as Apple Struggles to Deliver Replacement Machines

[asdf542]

But arrandale offered no refresh to the quad cores. There were no dual core clarksfield chips. So when arrandale came out, it had been since Penryn that the dual cores had been updated. The clarksfield chips being replaced now have been on the market almost 1.5 years.

No, that's always been their high end. Even though the 25W penryn appeared, that savings got absorbed back into the 35W TDP when they added IGP and DMI.

See, but you are trying to make it seem as though Intel made no progress on their higher end chip watt usage when they have. A simple number doesn't tell the whole story.

Of course they could, but they'd have to increase the CPU TDP. The current MBP is 35W + 23W for the discrete GPU. The 47W you are quoting was not in one location. The 9400M was separate from the CPU which was separate from the discrete GPU (if present). They've never had a 45W TDP chip in a laptop since they switched to Intel.

You still aren't getting it. The Intel IGP is in that 45W and it's in the same place the 9400M would be. It's an integrated GPU.

Let me break this down for you one more time:
Mid 2009 MBP -
35W Penryn Chip
12W 9400M
47W

Intel QC SB
35W CPU
10W IGP, etc.
45W

This is leaving the discrete GPU that was also in the mid 2009 MBP out of the equation because it doesn't matter here.

I still don't understand one thing:

If they are going to adopt Sandy Bridge, what GPU will they adopt?

As I understood, nVidia is not making the chipset for their GPU on Sandy Bridge and Intel's IGP is equivalent of the 320m but the 330m is way more powerful and was adopted on high-end MacBook Pros.

So what are the CPU/GPU possibilities?

Likely possibilities:
13" - NVIDIA 520M/AMD 6XXX/Intel HD Graphics(if Apple doesn't find the room for a discrete GPU)
15" - NVIDIA 525M/AMD 6XXX
17" - NVIDIA 525M/AMD 6XXX

There's no real specifics on AMD's new 6XXX lineup yet.

 

[chrmjenkins]

See, but you are trying to make it seem as though Intel made no progress on their higher end chip watt usage when they have. A simple number doesn't tell the whole story.

No I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that they design to the same TDPs, regardless of efficiency gains.

You still aren't getting it. The Intel IGP is in that 45W and it's in the same place the 9400M would be. It's an integrated GPU.

It's integrated into the motherboard. Not the die. Huge difference. It will have a completely separate heatsink and everything.

Example: 13" macbook showing CPU and GPU on board.

Let me break this down for you one more time:
Mid 2009 MBP -
35W Penryn Chip
12W 9400M
47W

Intel QC SB
35W CPU
10W IGP, etc.
45W

This is leaving the discrete GPU that was also in the mid 2009 MBP out of the equation because it doesn't matter here.

Not on same die. See above.

 

[asdf542]

No I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that they design to the same TDPs, regardless of efficiency gains.

But they don't, as proven by the what would be 25W Arrandale chips and the 25W Penryn chips you pointed out.

It's integrated into the motherboard. Not the die. Huge difference. It will have a completely separate heatsink and everything.

Example: 13" macbook showing CPU and GPU on board.

http://static.arstechnica.com/hardware/13_macbookpro_logicboard_ifixit.jpg

Not on same die. See above.

Apple already used 35W Merom chips with integrated Intel graphics in their 13" machines. This is nothing new for them.

 

[noodlelegs]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_6 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E200 Safari/6533.18.5)

i call feb 22th!

twenty seceth? i think you're typing with a lisp!

You could pronounce it "twenty tooth" or "twenty secondth"

 

[Arcadie]

Over the years since the Macbook, I've given away several of my old Macbooks to family as I kept on the upgrade treadmill.

All of them from the 2006 C2D white Macbook to the latest 2009 MBP 13" are all functioning beautifully and keeping their new owners happy.

I had a chance to spend some time with my oldest MB while upgrading it for my mother-in-law, and was amazed at how well it functioned and how nice it still looked... this machine is over 4 years old.

Keep your MBP and hopefully it lasts another 4 years!

will you be my uncle?

 

[chrmjenkins]

But they don't, as proven by the what would be 25W Arrandale chips and the 25W Penryn chips you pointed out.

They are 25W chips with a 10W DMI/IGP.

Apple already used 35W Merom chips with integrated Intel graphics in their 13" machines. This is nothing new for them.

Those were integrated on the mainboard, not the die. The first die integrated GPU was the one in Arrandale.

 

[asdf542]

They are 25W chips with a 10W DMI/IGP.

Glad you've finally realized this.

Those were integrated on the mainboard, not the die. The first die integrated GPU was the one in Arrandale.

Lol, is that not exactly what you said prior in regards to the IGP on SB?
"It's integrated into the motherboard. Not the die."

So which one is it? You're like a chicken running around with its head cut off at this point.

Whether it's on the die or the motherboard is irrelevant anyway, if Apple needs a bigger heatsink they can make the room for it by ---... let me just stop there before you decide to start an argument.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Glad you've finally realized this.

I've always recognized it. If we're keeping score, you've

1) failed to recognize the difference between an on die IGP and logic board based one.
2) cannot provide a basis for a 35W quad core with IGP as a likely ivy bridge product.

Lol, is that not exactly what you said prior in regards to the IGP on SB?
"It's integrated into the motherboard. Not the die."

When you were talking about the 9400M, which I even provided a picture of to show you your mistake, which you didn't acknowledge.

So which one is it? You're like a chicken running around with its head cut off at this point.

it's learn context, because you have none.

Whether it's on the die or the motherboard is irrelevant anyway, if Apple needs a bigger heatsink they can make the room for it by ---... let me just stop there before you decide to start an argument.

Or you dig a hole too deep. Bigger heatsink means fatter laptop. Not going to happen.

 

[Jdstew1234]

Please please please please....Dying for a refresh!

you have a 15" from 2010. why do you need an update

 

[asdf542]

I've always recognized it. If we're keeping score, you've

1) failed to recognize the difference between an on die IGP and logic board based one.
2) cannot provide a basis for a 35W quad core with IGP as a likely ivy bridge product.

1) I never failed to recognize anything and your logic board and on die argument still ends in a circle with no factual evidence to back up your claim.
2) LOL, what does the 45W SB QC have to do with Ivy Bridge? Other than the fact that they reduced the CPU power by 10W after you tried to play it off like they always stayed the same TDP?

When you were talking about the 9400M, which I even provided a picture of to show you your mistake, which you didn't acknowledge.

it's learn context, because you have none.

OLOLOLOLOL

Go back and read the thread.

First you said that the 9400M is on a die and not on the motherboard.
Then I was talking about the Intel IGP Apple used in the past with the 35W Merom.
Then you said "Those were integrated on the mainboard, not the die."
Then you said "The first die integrated GPU was the one in Arrandale."

Do you not see the flaw in your argument? First you claim that Apple can't use Intel's IGP because it's on the motherboard, then you take my example and say what they used was on the motherboard and not the die, then you say the Intel IGP in Arrandale is on the die?

LOLWTF

Or you dig a hole too deep. Bigger heatsink means fatter laptop. Not going to happen.

OPTICAL DRIVE

Oh ****, hope this argument doesn't go on for 12 pages longer.

 

[gramirez2012]

you have a 15" from 2010. why do you need an update

My mom has an iMac G3 and badly needs a new MacBook, but she doesn't want to buy one until they are updated.

 

[chrmjenkins]

1) I never failed to recognize anything and your logic board and on die argument still ends in a circle with no factual evidence to back up your claim.

and now we've reached the point where you move on to completely fabricating. You were wrong about on die vs on logicboard and you still deny it.

2) LOL, what does the 45W SB QC have to do with Ivy Bridge? Other than the fact that they reduced the CPU power by 10W after you tried to play it off like they always stayed the same TDP? :

which they do. Unless you disagree there has been a 35 W dual core since Merom? They've added 25W CPUs (which isn't significant in and of itself because they produce a wide variety of TDPs.)

First you said that the 9400M is on a die and not on the motherboard.

no, I never said that. I also showed you the picture. Why would I contradict myself in the same post. If I said it, quote the whole post and don't cherry pick.

Then I was talking about the Intel IGP Apple used in the past with the 35W Merom.
Then you said "Those were integrated on the mainboard, not the die."

Which is true.

Then you said "The first die integrated GPU was the one in Arrandale."

which is also true.

Do you not see the flaw in your argument? First you claim that Apple can't use Intel's IGP because it's on the motherboard,

then quote it. I never said it.

then you take my example and say what they used was on the motherboard and not the die, then you say the Intel IGP in Arrandale is on the die?

which is true. Do I need to explain the difference between a die and a motherboard to you?

OPTICAL DRIVE

Oh ****, hope this argument doesn't go on for 12 pages longer.

that's not even a statement. What did you intend to say? The optical drive doesn't reside over the CPU. Removing it won't help.

Closest design to MBP is the envy, slightly thicker and has overheating problems with 45W CPUs.

 

[c0l3a5h3r]

I really hope for a refresh soon. I need a new computer and i cant wait much longer,

 

[pep.pep]

Pumped!

Looking forward to seeing the specs for the 13 and 15 inch MCB.

 

[asdf542]

TLDR

Honestly talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You ignore the fact that Intel has reduced the usage of the CPU by 10 watts(HURRRRRRRR ITS STILL THE SAME NUMBER THOUGH HURRRRRRR), then you decide to go on a rant in relation to IGP on the die and on the motherboard without providing ANY FACTUAL EVIDENCE that Apple couldn't use it. So instead of quoting 50 more times I'm asking you this: Where is the source of your chicken running around with its head cut off argument?

Closest design to MBP is the envy, slightly thicker and has overheating problems with 45W CPUs.

Envy is using the older quad cores that don't include the IGP in the overall TDP. Along with a much higher TDP GPU. JESUS HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF?

 

[chrmjenkins]

Honestly talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You ignore the fact that Intel has reduced the usage of the CPU by 10 watts(HURRRRRRRR ITS STILL THE SAME NUMBER THOUGH HURRRRRRR), then you decide to go on a rant in relation to IGP on the die and on the motherboard without providing ANY FACTUAL EVIDENCE that Apple couldn't use it. So instead of quoting 50 more times I'm asking you this: Where is the source of your chicken running around with its head cut off argument?

I can't even form a response to this. You're no longer making any actual arguments or attempting to respond to my points.

Envy is using the older quad cores that don't include the IGP in the overall TDP.

it's still the same TDP.

Along with a much higher TDP GPU.

independent heatsinks. Irrelevant.

 

[asdf542]

I can't even form a response to this. You're no longer making any actual arguments or attempting to respond to my points.

Give me the source that says Apple can't use quad core Sandy Bridge chips because the IGP is on the die and not on the motherboard. Give me the source that states the 'drastic' power difference between on board IGP's on IGP's on the die. Give me the source.

it's still the same TDP. independent heatsinks. Irrelevant.

Independent heatsinks? That's the only thing that's irrelevant here. If the GPU overheats then the whole machine overheats. Google overheating Envy and the top results will almost always lead to the GPU.

 

[catracho]

There are two good reasons to wait the second refresh this year:

1. Mac OS X Lion
2. The Sandy Bridge "test generation" will be the first refresh.

 

[cerulean.blue]

You two have really been going at it here. Obviously you both have substantial knowledge about the CPU issues here, but may I kindly suggest you tone down the rhetoric a bit?

Seems you could be making your points without quite so much vitriol... Might make others feel more comfortable using this as a helpful forum for exchange of ideas. Just a thought...

Give me the source that says Apple can't use quad core Sandy Bridge chips because the IGP is on the die and not on the motherboard. Give me the source that states the 'drastic' power difference between on board IGP's on IGP's on the die. Give me the source.


You're pathetic. Independent heatsinks? That's the only thing that's irrelevant here. If the GPU overheats then the whole machine overheats. Google overheating Envy and the top results will almost always lead to the GPU.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Give me the source that says Apple can't use quad core Sandy Bridge chips because the IGP is on the die and not on the motherboard. Give me the source that states the 'drastic' power difference between on board IGP's on IGP's on the die. Give me the source.

Why would I do that? I've never made those claims.

You're pathetic. Independent heatsinks? That's the only thing that's irrelevant here. If the GPU overheats then the whole machine overheats. Google overheating Envy and the top results will almost always lead to the GPU.

Ok, explain the physics to me. How does an overheating GPU also overheat the CPU?

Both overheat independently. The point is that the one with 20W lower TDP also overheats (the CPU). This means a 45W CPU in a MBP is unlikely.

 

[Moebyte]

What TDP mean?

What TDP mean? Thank you.

 

[MattMJB0188]

The MacBook Pros where just updated in April. What more do you people want???

 

[chrmjenkins]

What TDP mean? Thank you.

Thermal Design Power. It bounds the max heat dissipation the computer manufacturer has to design for.

 

[Fraaaa]

The MacBook Pros where just updated in April. What more do you people want???

"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford


----

Likely possibilities:
13" - NVIDIA 520M/AMD 6XXX/Intel HD Graphics(if Apple doesn't find the room for a discrete GPU)
15" - NVIDIA 525M/AMD 6XXX
17" - NVIDIA 525M/AMD 6XXX

There's no real specifics on AMD's new 6XXX lineup yet.

So, is Apple using a third party chipset for using an nVidia GPU?

 

[asdf542]

Why would I do that? I've never made those claims.

LOL, that was your whole counter argument for my mid 2009 MBP example. You went on your 10 quote rampage about on die IGP's and on main board IGP's and never went anywhere with it. You never provided any source for your claims.

Ok, explain the physics to me. How does an overheating GPU also overheat the CPU?

Well let's see. When two things are close together in a confined space... and one of those gets hotter, what does it give off? .... HEAT! And where does this spread? IN THE CHASSIS!

Both overheat independently. The point is that the one with 20W lower TDP also overheats (the CPU). This means a 45W CPU in a MBP is unlikely.

The CPU is 35W while the IGP is 10W. Don't make me recite my mid 2009 MBP example again.

So, is Apple using a third party chipset for using an nVidia GPU?

Everything I listed was discrete with the exception of Intel's Graphics.