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MacBook Pro Shortages Continue as Apple Struggles to Deliver Replacement Machines

ArthurWellsley said:
Question for chrmjenkins

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Acer-Aspire-7750G-Notebook.45861.0.html


This is a link to www.notebookcheck.net who review allsorts of new hardware. It is a review of the new Acer Aspire 7750G. This machine has the new Sandy Bridge i7-2630QM quad core processor and an AMD Radeon HD 6850M.

You will note towards the end of the review (under the heading Battery Runtime) that in idle the system consumes 12.9 watts. They conclude that the total system is more frugal than the previous i7-740 systems (are they correct in that assumption?).

The reviewed machine also does well for heat generation in the review, and also the review comments on it being thin for a cheap windows machine. Given how much Acer has managed to pack into this case, and how well it all comes together, might not Apple also be able to use the same cpu and gpu?

I appreciate Apple is more likely to go with a gpu from nvidia maybe a 420M or a 425M or even a 430M, these being closer to the 330 presently used. I doubt they would go for the GTX 460M which appears to be the more direct competitor to the 6850M.

But if Acer can get the quad Sandy Bridge cpu and a high end Radeon to work in a slim form why can't Apple use the same cpu and an nvidia gpu in the new MBP?

I note that the 330 gpu in present MBP's has been specifically down clocked by Apple compared to it's clock speed in many other PC manfacturers laptops (apart from Sony who pull the same trick). This downgrades it's ability but uses less juice. Could not Apple use the same down clocking on a 430M to fit it in a MBP with a quad Sandy Bridge cpu?

Is it the fact that when under load the Acer machine jumps up to 104 watts usuage? And the fact therefore that the Acer needs a large power adaptor?
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, there is no 430M, only a 425M and a 435M. I'd love to see Apple move to a bit more powerful GPU. A 445M or 555M would be great, but I doubt Apple's ability to keep them cool enough in the current chassis. The cooling system would likely need an overhaul.
 
Thanks for the reply. But one more question. Lets say your right and Apple goes with the Nvidia GeForce GT525M (your argument for which seems bang on the nail). But lets further assume that instead of the standard recommended clock speed of 600mhz Apple runs it at something less so that it draws less power. (I think Apple down clocked the 330M from 575mhz to 500mhz which although saving on power made it 14% less effective and close in performance to a standard 325M).

If they do down clock the 525M do you think that they could fit the Sandy Bridge quad i7-2630QM in the next MBP?

(I agree with you that they seem to model everything on the 15", which is a shame since I will undoubtedly buy a 17").
 
Pardon the extreme newbie comment/question, especially given the high level of technical discussion going on.

I've been on a Sony Vaio for about 5 years, and have had a great experience with it, except for the fact that it is starting to show its age. For my next laptop though, I did a lot of research and decided on a MacBook Pro. I actually started out on a Powerbook about 17 or 18 years ago, which really dates me (I still have it at home, God knows for what reason), so this is a homecoming of sorts.

I've needed to replace the Vaio for awhile now, and was going to pick either a 13 or 15 inch MacBook Pro late last year, though when I saw how close they likely were to an update, I thought to do what I could to prolong the life of the Vaio and wait. So, obviously, I am eager for the new MacBooks to come. (I kind of prefer the 13 inch,, since I'm so used to my 2.5 pound, extremely portable Vaio)

However, reading all of the comments here about SandyBridge and IvyBridge and SnowLeopard vs. Lion, and I am feeling overwhelmed again.

I'm not going to be using the machine to make movies, though I am pretty music/photo/business use heavy, and would like to make more creative use of the laptop, which I think Apple will afford me (I still remember using QuarkXpress on the Powerbook).

I am one of those people who like to buy something that will be still be of use five years down the line, so I'd like to wait for the 'thing' that exceeds even my current use, but with all technology, that's a trap, since there are upgrades all the time.

Again, understanding that this is a newbie question, I'd be grateful for any comments you might share, to help with the decision making process.

Many thanks (and apologies for bringing the discussion down to such a basic level).
 
ArthurWellsley said:
Thanks for the reply. But one more question. Lets say your right and Apple goes with the Nvidia GeForce GT525M (your argument for which seems bang on the nail). But lets further assume that instead of the standard recommended clock speed of 600mhz Apple runs it at something less so that it draws less power. (I think Apple down clocked the 330M from 575mhz to 500mhz which although saving on power made it 14% less effective and close in performance to a standard 325M).

If they do down clock the 525M do you think that they could fit the Sandy Bridge quad i7-2630QM in the next MBP?

(I agree with you that they seem to model everything on the 15", which is a shame since I will undoubtedly buy a 17").
Click to expand...

I actually expect them to downclock it regardless. I could see them downclocking to fit a higher TDP CPU in, I just don't think it's likely they will use a quad unless it's 35W TDP. That may happen with Ivy Bridge, but I'm fairly confident it will happen with Haswell.

MacBoook160 said:
Pardon the extreme newbie comment/question, especially given the high level of technical discussion going on.

I've been on a Sony Vaio for about 5 years, and have had a great experience with it, except for the fact that it is starting to show its age. For my next laptop though, I did a lot of research and decided on a MacBook Pro. I actually started out on a Powerbook about 17 or 18 years ago, which really dates me (I still have it at home, God knows for what reason), so this is a homecoming of sorts.

I've needed to replace the Vaio for awhile now, and was going to pick either a 13 or 15 inch MacBook Pro late last year, though when I saw how close they likely were to an update, I thought to do what I could to prolong the life of the Vaio and wait. So, obviously, I am eager for the new MacBooks to come. (I kind of prefer the 13 inch,, since I'm so used to my 2.5 pound, extremely portable Vaio)

However, reading all of the comments here about SandyBridge and IvyBridge and SnowLeopard vs. Lion, and I am feeling overwhelmed again.

I'm not going to be using the machine to make movies, though I am pretty music/photo/business use heavy, and would like to make more creative use of the laptop, which I think Apple will afford me (I still remember using QuarkXpress on the Powerbook).

I am one of those people who like to buy something that will be still be of use five years down the line, so I'd like to wait for the 'thing' that exceeds even my current use, but with all technology, that's a trap, since there are upgrades all the time.

Again, understanding that this is a newbie question, I'd be grateful for any comments you might share, to help with the decision making process.

Many thanks (and apologies for bringing the discussion down to such a basic level).
Click to expand...

In 5 years, it's slightly possible that you won't be able to get the latest OS updates. Some of the first Intel macs with Core processors only are 32-bit processors and can't run Grand Central in Snow Leopard. The good part is that they are no life-changing features like this planned for the Intel chip family in the near future, especially with Ivy Bridge, which is just a die shrink of Sandy Bridge with very few architectural changes. That's not to say Apple couldn't lock those macs out of updating arbitrarily (which I don't really expect).
 
chrmjenkins said:
In 5 years, it's slightly possible that you won't be able to get the latest OS updates. Some of the first Intel macs with Core processors only are 32-bit processors and can't run Grand Central in Snow Leopard. The good part is that they are no life-changing features like this planned for the Intel chip family in the near future, especially with Ivy Bridge, which is just a die shrink of Sandy Bridge with very few architectural changes. That's not to say Apple couldn't lock those macs out of updating arbitrarily (which I don't really expect).
Click to expand...

If you just get the stock RAM now, you could find that even if you can use the latest OS update in 5 years time you need to (or its strongly advisable) to max out your RAM. RAM can be easily upgraded down the track so you don't have to max it out now.

I purchased a MacBook back in 2007 that came stock with 1GB RAM. I chose to get a CTO unit with 2GB RAM. Whilst I think Snow Leopard requires 1GB RAM it's advisable to have at least 2GB RAM installed.

If I want to use Mac OS X Lion, I may need to upgrade my RAM again.
 
Thanks, chrmnjenkins. There are no guarantees, obviously, but I'd hate to think that not waiting for IvyBridge or Lion would be a big mistake that I'd be banging my head against the wall for in 6-8 months.

It's comforting to read that there are many of you here with relatively 'old' MacBooks that are still operating well.
 
You can always purchase the update to Lion once it comes out. As for IvyBridge there's always something newer and better around the corner and if you wait for it, you could be waiting forever.
 
There's no doubt you'll be able to upgrade to lion. Unfortunately, I wouldn't expect the $30 pricing of snow leopard given it's a UI overhaul and not a back-end enhancement like snow leopard.
 
Hey, even if there's some kind of discount, I'll be happy; as has been stated here a few times, I will end up never buying anything if I'm going to wait for all the 'updates' to come out.

And I'll have more weekends like this one, trying to empty my Vaio of every extraneous program and file, just to keep it functioning!
 
chrmjenkins said:
Thank you, I did not know that. I simply assumed because that they didn't that it wasn't possible.

Why wouldn't they? My guess is that it could be yield concerns or library incompatibility.
Click to expand...

More likely the latter. Typically design rules change (beyond merely scaling), so the cell library would have to be re-layed out. If you're going to do that, you might as well take advantage of the smaller feature size and use an optimized library (thus reducing the capacitance that must be switched and reducing dynamic power dissipation/consumption. Of course static power dissipation goes up a bit when you shrink, but even now the trade-off still generally favors shrinking [but not for much longer, at least until dual-gate and other fancy transistors take off]).
 
cmaier said:
More likely the latter. Typically design rules change (beyond merely scaling), so the cell library would have to be re-layed out. If you're going to do that, you might as well take advantage of the smaller feature size and use an optimized library (thus reducing the capacitance that must be switched and reducing dynamic power dissipation/consumption. Of course static power dissipation goes up a bit when you shrink, but even now the trade-off still generally favors shrinking [but not for much longer, at least until dual-gate and other fancy transistors take off]).
Click to expand...

What you said makes sense and makes me have to ask. If it's that impractical due to process differences, it may as well be technically impossible as well, no?
 
mdgm said:
You can always purchase the update to Lion once it comes out. As for IvyBridge there's always something newer and better around the corner and if you wait for it, you could be waiting forever.
Click to expand...

This is true, but I personally tire of hearing people say it. For those of us who need to get the most life out of a computer, it is best to be aware of current and upcoming technology, and then to decide what exactly we need and want in our next computer. For me, I won't purchase another Mac until Apple uses quad-core CPUs and includes USB 3.0 ports. I have other desires (e.g., perhaps Light Peak), but the two aforementioned hardware changes seem to me to be the most important. I also expect Apple will be using SSDs in its standard MBP configuration by then, as well.
 
chrmjenkins said:
What you said makes sense and makes me have to ask. If it's that impractical due to process differences, it may as well be technically impossible as well, no?
Click to expand...

No.

At AMD, for example, we once designed a chip for feature size X, knowing that we would quickly port it to feature size Y. Y is less than X. As a result, we designed the library for X so that it would work on Y if we shrunk each cell proportionally. This meant the library was not quite as good as it could be for X.

As a result, that X library would have also worked fine on Y even if we didn't shrink it proportionally.

If we had some reason to do so, we could have taken some blocks from the first chip and used them un-shrunk on the second chip. We may even have done so (I can't recall, but for example certain analog blocks like PLLs or RAMs couldn't simply be proportionally shrunk so they may have been used on the Y chip without being changed from the X design).
 
One thing is for sure, I'll order a 13" or 15" MacBook Pro as soon as the new models come out. My current setup is iBook G4 12". The battery doesn't work, the fan noise is killing me and even the YouTube videos are lagging.
 
I have a bit of a noob question as well.

I have my own photography business so I use Photoshop CS5/LR3 a lot. Thus far, I've only used my PC desktop. I'm going on a two month trip this summer and really would like to get a MBP before that so I have something to edit on while I'm away.

With that said, I'm looking to get a 13" but can't decide if waiting for the new models will be worth it or to just pick one up now. I would rather wait for a 2nd generation so bugs can get worked out but that obviously will not happen before June of this year.

So should I pick one up right now? Or just wait for the new models to get released in, hopefully, March?

TIA
 
Memory

I really hope the updates comes out soon (around the dates Best Buy has listed) and uses the same kind of memory modules as the current MBP. I just bought 8gb of memory and was about to pull the trigger on a 13" MBP; the only thing that stopped me was that at that exact moment the apple store was down for maintenance. Out of curiosity I wondered over here to see if updates were imminent...

A quad-core i5 processor 13" MBP would be very nice, though I would be content with a dual-core i3. I really hope they at least stay with the Nvidia mobile GPU. Ideally I would prefer an AMD GPU but I would take the Nvidia chips over the Intel HD GPU if those were the options.
 
ASPbreakdown said:
I have a bit of a noob question as well.

I have my own photography business so I use Photoshop CS5/LR3 a lot. Thus far, I've only used my PC desktop. I'm going on a two month trip this summer and really would like to get a MBP before that so I have something to edit on while I'm away.

With that said, I'm looking to get a 13" but can't decide if waiting for the new models will be worth it or to just pick one up now. I would rather wait for a 2nd generation so bugs can get worked out but that obviously will not happen before June of this year.

So should I pick one up right now? Or just wait for the new models to get released in, hopefully, March?

TIA
Click to expand...

Might as well wait. Wait a few weeks after the new MBPs are released, and see if any reports of bugs surface. If not, buy one. If yes, you can buy a current-gen MBP (which will at that point be a clearance item) and pocket the savings.
 
lifeinhd said:
Might as well wait. Wait a few weeks after the new MBPs are released, and see if any reports of bugs surface. If not, buy one. If yes, you can buy a current-gen MBP (which will at that point be a clearance item) and pocket the savings.
Click to expand...

I was planning on picking up a current MBP 13" until I found out about the soon to come update.

If I got one now, and then a month or so later the new :apple: comes out, and it is straight meat, I would kick myself, and Not gentle, but bad.:D
 
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