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tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 17, 2016
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Exactly 4 years ago from today, Apple released the very first MacBook Pro Retina.

Suppose that, on that day, you bought the MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2012), what incentive do you have to buy another one today, 4 years later?

Sure, you get faster graphics card (with the dGPU model), slightly faster processor, and PCIe SSD, but that's about it.
 

Patron_Saint

Suspended
Jun 10, 2016
132
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Significantly faster processors, ridiculous SSD speed increases, better dGPU, better integrated GPU, better battery life, force touch trackpad.

There have been several updates since 2012, and going from a 2012 model to, say a 2015 model would be a reasonable update for many. For all? No. But certainly enough that you should avoid a claim like saying today's model is "barely better", when there's plenty of evidence otherwise.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G3
That`s how Apple rolls with the Mac, accept it or move on. Not suggesting this paradigm is good or bad, just how it is. It`s down to the individual to answer if it works for them or not. Recent poor sales may incentivise Apple, equally the Mac is not a leader in Apple`s revenue stream, hence the current stagnated & mediocre lineup.

Personally I have very low expectations for the Mac with Apple`s current management team, as it`s very clear that iToy`s and services are the point of Apple`s focus. All we will see for the Mac is bells & whistles, gadgets & toys. Tim & Co have made it clear the future of computing is the iPad, that they are welcome to keep...

Q-6
 
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dwfaust

macrumors 604
Jul 3, 2011
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Exactly 4 years ago from today, Apple released the very first MacBook Pro Retina.

Suppose that, on that day, you bought the MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2012), what incentive do you have to buy another one today, 4 years later?

Sure, you get faster graphics card (with the dGPU model), slightly faster processor, and PCIe SSD, but that's about it.

No supposing to it... I bought one. I would do it again, if I needed one - that is to say, if the one that I bought 4 years ago today wasn't still meeting my needs.
 
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jarodlee88

macrumors member
Jun 12, 2016
40
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Technically, all PCs get a faster GPU, a faster CPU and faster storage. Not just the MacBook Retina. And really, the difference in CPU performance is quite large between the last four years and now. Hopefully Skylake will make its way to the new MacBook Retina.
 
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tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 17, 2016
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As well as Thunderbolt 2, 802.11ac Wi-Fi and support for 4K and 5K external displays.

This is a nonsense thread.

What I am saying is that in the same time the competitor went from this:

dell_xps_15_mlk_926445_g1.jpg


to

dellXPS15_2012__6.jpg


to

DellXPS15-9530.jpg


then finally to this:

maxresdefault.jpg
 
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nStyle

macrumors 65816
Dec 6, 2009
1,196
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No, the newer MBPs are definitely objectively better...by a large margin. Now, subjectively, probably not. Most people are likely still more than pleased with the performance of their 2012 15" rMBP. But it's not hard to imagine that there are some that still would benefit from greater performance.

What OP wants is revolutionary, not evolutionary. But that's just not going to happen since laptops are a mature product, thus most improvements are iterative, so you won't see mass amounts of people lining up to buy a simply better rendition of the same product when their old product serves them just fine.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G3
What I am saying is that in same time the competitor went from this:

Tend to agree while Apple was busy soaking up the profit off IOS devices, it forgot the Mac. While Windows OEM`s suffered under W8. Spin forward to present day the OEM`s are now releasing fresh and innovative notebooks, while Apple is still hoping $2K basic clamshell notebooks are going to attract the masses. Apple needs to seriously revise it`s design and or pricing or ever more Mac`s will sit on the shelf.

I don't hate Apple, I am however totally disappointed in the progression of the Mac, as it could have been so much more...

Q-6
 
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jeremiah256

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2008
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Southern California
I understand your point, but what percentage of those Dells from 2012 are still around in a productive capacity? If 2016 WWDC comes around and a new 13" MBP is not released with TB3, my 2011 MBP will get it's two hard drives updated again, and it'll be good to go for at least another year or two. And there are people still working their 2009s, 2008s, and I've even seen posts about hanging on to their 2007s. And don't get me started on the 17" fans. Point is, my 5 year old Mac still works well, and still looks good when I take it out on the town. It was done right from the beginning and so it didn't need the design updates that Windows based PCs needed.
 
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izzyfanto

macrumors regular
Nov 22, 2011
233
102
What OP wants is revolutionary, not evolutionary. But that's just not going to happen since laptops are a mature product, thus most improvements are iterative, so you won't see mass amounts of people lining up to buy a simply better rendition of the same product when their old product serves them just fine.
I agree, I think that the basic design of a laptop is being reduced in possibilities; there are only so many ways to design a keyboard attached to a screen and remain powerful and thin. We'll see what technology does to increase these limits, but it'll take a radical idealogical shift to be revolutionary in computing design compared to where we are at now.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G3
I agree, I think that the basic design of a laptop is being reduced in possibilities; there are only so many ways to design a keyboard attached to a screen and remain powerful and thin. We'll see what technology does to increase these limits, but it'll take a radical idealogical shift to be revolutionary in computing design compared to where we are at now.

One of the problems is radical idealogical shifts do exist, however not on the OS X platform, thx to IOS Apple is firmly entrenched with the basic clamshell design, nor will this change anytime soon, well unless sales continue to drop...

Q-6
 
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Gregintosh

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2008
1,808
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Chicago
There's quite a few improvements left to be made:

- Better battery life. That's always popular and always in need. I would love 12 to 14 hours of "real life" use. I have a 2012 and it lasts about 3.5 to 4 hours when being used. Only get the promised 5-7 if I stick to Safari only.

- Add SIM card/cellular connection. Sure, you can tether but a dedicated cellular connection would be more convenient (which is why people get cellular iPads also).

- Touch screen with Apple Pencil support. It would be useful for some, and those who don't like it can choose not to touch it, so it's a win-win.

- OLED or otherwise "customizable" keyboard. We might get a strip this year, but a whole keyboard would be amazing for games and pros alike. I don't mean a glass touchscreen keyboard, I mean each key having a display so it can be customized or be contextual.
 
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izzyfanto

macrumors regular
Nov 22, 2011
233
102
One of the problems is radical idealogical shifts doe exist, however not on the OS X platform, thx to IOS Apple is firmly entrenched with the basic clamshell design, nor will this change anytime soon, well unless sales continue to drop...
Q-6
I see what you're saying, but I feel like even the Surface Book, Yoga or whatever other design is out there, they all fall back on the basics of a slim keyboard and screen. Whether that's hinged, flipped, clamshell, they'll all just keyboards and screens.
 
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sevoneone

macrumors 6502a
May 16, 2010
556
613
Apple has been dealing with the same struggles as the rest of the industry. Simply put, hardware is not progressing at the rate that it has in recent years.

Compared to competitors, Apple was just more on top of the game when the processors came around that allowed for a super slim, yet powerful, 14-15" laptop. IMHO it has just taken this long for the competition to catch up with their designs taking full advantage of the capabilities of the hardware. And if you look, the competition is stagnating a bit now too. Looking at that Dell XPS posted above, yes there was a rapid evolution at Dell to get to it, but the design now hasn't changed since 2013. They're now doing the same incremental updates Apple is.

In the period from 2005 to 2011 there was a ton of advancement in technologies that drove innovations: CPU, GPU, better batteries. In CPUs alone, Apple went from PPC to Intel, then came big performance leaps with the Core2 chips, then again with the first gen of the Core i series of chips, and the last big step in CPUs performance came the the 2nd generation Core i processors. Everything since has been pretty incremental. The iGPUs get a little better, the power management a little better, but nothing like we were seeing every year back then.

You have to remember, Apple doesn't invent the core technology, they invent new and exciting ways to use it
 
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leman

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2008
13,147
8,692
This thread is ridiculous. What did OP expect, a cofee maker or something? The competitors underwent significant design changes because they were basically stealing Apple's design. If Apple were not there, Dells would be still bulky and with ugly trackpads.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G3
I see what you're saying, but I feel like even the Surface Book, Yoga or whatever other design is out there, they all fall back on the basics of a slim keyboard and screen. Whether that's hinged, flipped, clamshell, they'll all just keyboards and screens.

I simply feel Apple could have done so much more with the Mac, they simply chose not to, hence the current stagnant and in some cases mediocre lineup we see today. Am now at the conclusion that Apple is extremely unlikely to do anything exciting with the Mac to move it forward, basically offering the same mix with more bells & whistles.

The competition is ever more attractive offering greater functionality & utility, while Apple`s innovation has long since been traded for sheer profit. Apple has never been the first to the table, equally in the past Apple was always the best at picking the right ingredients. As for the thin & light brigade Sony and it`s VAIO X was producing systems that would still impress today well before Apple got on that merry go round. Some OEM`s look to emulate Apple, equally the majority have there own design ethos.


Q-6
 
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Samuelsan2001

macrumors 604
Oct 24, 2013
7,694
2,123
Apple were so far ahead of the curve 4 years ago that it's only now everyone has caught up and in a few very recent cases maybe surpassed them, however in a couple of months time Apple will have released new computers and be ahead of the curve again.

Apple will never make a laptop that is going for performance to the detriment of everything else so if dual GPU's or 6core laptops are what you are after then you'll need to go somewhere else, if you want a balanced all round machine then I think the skylake rMBP's are going to be pretty darn good.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G3
Apple were so far ahead of the curve 4 years ago that it's only now everyone has caught up and in a few very recent cases maybe surpassed them, however in a couple of months time Apple will have released new computers and be ahead of the curve again.

Apple will never make a laptop that is going for performance to the detriment of everything else so if dual GPU's or 6core laptops are what you are after then you'll need to go somewhere else, if you want a balanced all round machine then I think the skylake rMBP's are going to be pretty darn good.

Apple are just going to release a thinner & lighter MBP, with a OLED function touch panel, nothing much more than that, and nothing to stop the diminishing sales, nor do I foresee this being ahead of any curve, like I said same mix, more bells & whistles.

Q-6
 
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Samuelsan2001

macrumors 604
Oct 24, 2013
7,694
2,123
Apple are just going to release a thinner & lighter MBP, with a OLED function touch panel, nothing much more than that, and nothing to stop the diminishing sales, nor do I foresee this being ahead of any curve, like I said same mix, more bell s & whistles.

Q-6

I see the best skylake processors in their class in a very thin light laptop with a P3 gamut screen, tb3 and 5k support and Polaris GPU's in the 15 inch. But hey if that's not what you want that's fair.
 
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friedkimchi

macrumors regular
Aug 13, 2011
182
95
I understand your point, but what percentage of those Dells from 2012 are still around in a productive capacity? If 2016 WWDC comes around and a new 13" MBP is not released with TB3, my 2011 MBP will get it's two hard drives updated again, and it'll be good to go for at least another year or two. And there are people still working their 2009s, 2008s, and I've even seen posts about hanging on to their 2007s. And don't get me started on the 17" fans. Point is, my 5 year old Mac still works well, and still looks good when I take it out on the town. It was done right from the beginning and so it didn't need the design updates that Windows based PCs needed.

Just because "you" didn't manage to make a 2012 (or older) windows laptop last and work till date doesn't mean its not possible. Case in point, I bought my 15" Asus in 2011, still working in perfect condition. My college friends brought even older laptops such as Gateway for programming class.

I've replaced the battery and swapped out the original HDD (used as external drive) for a SSD, went from Windows 7, 8, 8.1 to 10. Still running like a champ.

Have a base 15" 2014. But the retina screen makes me treat this laptop like a glass cannon.
 
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