MacBook Pro today: barely better than one released 4 years ago

[Queen6]

I see the best skylake processors in their class in a very thin light laptop with a P3 gamut screen, tb3 and 5k support and Polaris GPU's in the 15 inch. But hey if that's not what you want that's fair.

No nothing wrong there and agree likely to be included in the update, however still in the same basic clamshell. Great proponent of TB3, equally Apple all or nothing USB C strategy is problematic.

Having owned and used rMB in a professional role in multiple location and countries I can categorically state that not once have seen anything that can natively connect to the rMB`s data port, which is fine for it`s role. MBP I see has a different role and far more likely to have have peripherals connected, which for the next 2-3 years makes it the MacBook Dongle.

Q-6

 

[Samuelsan2001]

No nothing wrong there and agree likely to be included in the update, however still in the same basic clamshell. Great proponent of TB3, equally Apple all or nothing USB C strategy is problematic.

Having owned and used rMB in a professional role in multiple location and countries I can categorically state that not once have seen anything that can natively connect to the rMB`s data port, which is fine for it`s role. MBP I see has a different role and far more likely to have have peripherals connected, which for the next 2-3 years makes it the MacBook Dongle.

Q-6

So do you want them ahead of the curve or not??

Not being funny but I see this a lot here "I want everything new but still want all the old stuff as well in a slim light perfect laptop" seems to be the unrealistic consensus.

All laptops make compromises and that will continue for the foreseeable future. If apples compromises aren't what you want that's fine, but you have to accept that they will be made by all manufacturers and no one can make a laptop that's all things to all people.

 

[Queen6]

So do you want them ahead of the curve or not??

Not being funny but I see this a lot here "I want everything new but still want all the old stuff as well in a slim light perfect laptop" seems to be the unrealistic consensus.

All laptops make compromises and that will continue for the foreseeable future. If apples compromises aren't what you want that's fine, but you have to accept that they will be made by all manufacturers and no one can make a laptop that's all things to all people.

Simply stating that others offer more features with less compromise, what`s wrong with Apple doing the same...

Q-6

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Simply stating that others offer more features with less compromise, what`s wrong with Apple doing the same...

Q-6

Not less compromise different compromises.

Apple are going for maximum portability while increasing battery life and screen quality, if that isn't your priority then Apple aren't for you.

It's what I am after so they are for me, nothing wrong with that that's why there are multiple computer makers.

 

[izzyfanto]

Apple has been dealing with the same struggles as the rest of the industry. Simply put, hardware is not progressing at the rate that it has in recent years....the competition is stagnating a bit now too. Looking at that Dell XPS posted above, yes there was a rapid evolution at Dell to get to it, but the design now hasn't changed since 2013. They're now doing the same incremental updates Apple is.

Bingo, I feel everyone is trying to make something different, but they're only so many ways to skin a cat with the slowdown in hardware advancements. People are are expecting the giant leaps of 10 years ago, which is not realistic.

I simply feel Apple could have done so much more with the Mac, they simply chose not to, hence the current stagnant and in some cases mediocre lineup we see today. Am now at the conclusion that Apple is extremely unlikely to do anything exciting with the Mac to move it forward, basically offering the same mix with more bells & whistles.

I'm not being sarcastic or argumentative, but what do you mean? Touch screen? Swivel screen?

Apple are just going to release a thinner & lighter MBP, with a OLED function touch panel, nothing much more than that, and nothing to stop the diminishing sales, nor do I foresee this being ahead of any curve, like I said same mix, more bells & whistles. Q-6

Again, just don't understand what you're saying. Why're bells and whistles from Apple any different than the competition? Has anyone drastically redesigned a keyboard and screen concept? It feels like the competition has just tweaked and revised.

No nothing wrong there and agree likely to be included in the update, however still in the same basic clamshell. Great proponent of TB3, equally Apple all or nothing USB C strategy is problematic. Q-6

So you're saying swivel screens make clamshells outdated? Thanks for the dialogue. This subject is interesting.

 

[sevimli]

what macbook pro?

 

[Queen6]

Bingo, I feel everyone is trying to make something different, but they're only so many ways to skin a cat with the slowdown in hardware advancements. People are are expecting the giant leaps of 10 years ago, which is not realistic.

We don't need massive leaps in technology, rather I feel we need more imagination, some are coming up with new ideas, and interesting implementations, others are not.

I'm not being sarcastic or argumentative, but what do you mean? Touch screen? Swivel screen?

Yes Mac OS with Touch & Pencil support with the appropriate hardware, not the IPP

Again, just don't understand what you're saying. Why're bells and whistles from Apple any different than the competition? Has anyone drastically redesigned a keyboard and screen concept? It feels like the competition has just tweaked and revised. So you're saying swivel screens make clamshells outdated? Thanks for the dialogue. This subject is interesting.

I believe so, as the the interactive display opens and brings new dimensions & dynamics to the personal computer. Clearly this implementation of technology is more suited to devices that are more portable. I find it difficult to see any negative for a 12" rMB or 13" rMBP configures as a convertible, nor am I sugesting that this should be a default configuration for all, more same as the Lenovo X1 Carbon & X1 Carbon Yoga an option on the table.

Problem is Apple vision is to accomplish this by forcing the IPP as the touch interface device, nor is the Mac & MacOS primary in Apple`s plans. The 2016 MBP release of the will highly likely be the 4th major generational change, and likely the first I will defer as to me it`s clear that Apple are highly unlikely if ever to bring a unified device to market. I also feel that MacOS is becoming ever more a vehicle for social media over productivity, with recent iterations suffering stability issues.

In short I am going to give the other team a try, as my primary systems. I have already trialled W10 and to be brutally honest the OS has been faultless for my need, versus 10.11 which still has too much issue for me to run on a primary system.

Q-6

 

[jonnysods]

Inflammatory post, no?

And yet here I am, you got me!

 

[spacebro]

I upgraded from a 2012 to 2015 rmbp in order to drive a 4k display. And to think, last september, I thought maybe I should wait because new macbooks were right around the corner.

 

[jerryk]

I upgraded from a 2012 to 2015 rmbp in order to drive a 4k display. And to think, last september, I thought maybe I should wait because new macbooks were right around the corner.

You, and a lot of people thought any day now...

 

[peskaa]

I literally just sold my 2012 rMBP as a down-sizing exercise. However, I kind of agree that not much has changed. Yes, SSDs are faster....but you'd never notice it in the real world most of the time. The CPUs and memory were fast enough back then and have remained competitive today. The biggest difference is in ports - namely Thunderbolt 2, 802.11ac and so forth. Those by themselves aren't compelling enough to upgrade.

 

[Freida]

20% increase in battery is nothing?

For some people (me) it is. Because some people (me) don't care about battery at all.

on topic

I DO have the 2012 rMBP and I think that although the new ones are faster etc. this machine is still solid. Yes, I could have faster GPU and CPU (and SSD etc) but it wouldn't make that much difference. I think Skylake is where we get lot of goodies or even later if this machine survives.

I think at this point there is zero reason to buy current rMBP if you have 2012. 2012 is still solid and will last till the Skylake upgrade which si where most people should consider upgrade if they do need.

As the next one is most likely going to be a redesign I might sit on the 2012 a little longer if I can.

So, 2012 is great machine and will be ok for little longer. Not the fastest but also not a sloth.

 

[QCassidy352]

Compared to competitors, Apple was just more on top of the game when the processors came around that allowed for a super slim, yet powerful, 14-15" laptop. IMHO it has just taken this long for the competition to catch up with their designs taking full advantage of the capabilities of the hardware.

I think that's exactly right, but what's disappointing is that Apple didn't press their advantage. Maybe to some degree catch-up was inevitable, but honestly, Apple has done very little to push the envelope with respect to its macs lately.

 

[Zellio]

Why is any of this surprising or controversial? Dell has gone it's own way, allowing full upgradability (Minus cpu and gpu), thinness, and 4k touch 'infinity display'. Even with the slightly extra thickness due to upgradeability, the infinity display makes the 15" laptop the size of a 14" in width. Apple hasn't upgraded the cpu in it's 15" device for 2 years. The 15" macbook pro only had two cpu upgrades in the 4 years since the 2012 model.

So OF COURSE it's way behind. Of course it's barely better. The cpu is ancient. Apple doesn't care, they are too busy with overpriced macbooks, making ipads $100 more expensive (ipad pro), making iphones $100 more expensive, and making Apple cars to care about people who want productivity.

You'll be lucky if they even have a quad core in the 15" model. You'll also be lucky if the price isn't boosted by $500

 

[JTToft]

I think at this point there is zero reason to buy current rMBP if you have 2012.

- I get that there might not be for you, and I'm right with you in being satisfied with my current machine (an even older 2011), but to state it categorically like this is simply incorrect.
For some power users, the faster SSD and support for Thunderbolt 2 peripherals might be all-important. It isn't for you and it isn't for me, but it might very well be for others.

 

[Freida]

- I get that there might not be for you, and I'm right with you in being satisfied with my current machine (an even older 2011), but to state it categorically like this is simply incorrect.
For some power users, the faster SSD and support for Thunderbolt 2 peripherals might be all-important. It isn't for you and it isn't for me, but it might very well be for others.

The sentence you quoted was in relation to impending upgrade that is coming very very soon. Only a person that doesn't care about value/money would buy the current machine. Skylake is almost here and few months wait is not a big deal when you have 2012 model.

 

[JTToft]

The sentence you quoted was in relation to impending upgrade that is coming very very soon. Only a person that doesn't care about value/money would buy the current machine. Skylake is almost here and few months wait is not a big deal when you have 2012 model.

- I see. Somehow I didn't get that. Reading it again, that does make more sense in the context of your post.
Then I definitely agree.

 

[Zellio]

- I see. Somehow I didn't get that. Reading it again, that does make more sense in the context of your post.
Then I definitely agree.

Not to mention that the cpu in the 15" pro is 2 years old?

 

[jeremiah256]

Just because "you" didn't manage to make a 2012 (or older) windows laptop last and work till date doesn't mean its not possible. Case in point, I bought my 15" Asus in 2011, still working in perfect condition. My college friends brought even older laptops such as Gateway for programming class.

I've replaced the battery and swapped out the original HDD (used as external drive) for a SSD, went from Windows 7, 8, 8.1 to 10. Still running like a champ.

Have a base 15" 2014. But the retina screen makes me treat this laptop like a glass cannon.

Oh, I know there are older PCs out there, though I wonder what percentage, compared to older Macs, are still used for work vice being used as someone's secondary backup or given to the kids. After all, why go through what you went through, upgrading your PC, when for the same price I spend every five years upgrading my Mac, over $2500, a PC user could easily upgrade every other year over that same five years.

My main point was esthetics and user enthusiasm. In my experience, the average Apple user is a fan of the hardware. I look at my 5 year old MacBook Pro, and I find it a machine that I still find pleasant to use, and even today, find it more attractive than most current PC offerings.

 

[Queen6]

Oh, I know there are older PCs out there, though I wonder what percentage, compared to older Macs, are still used for work vice being used as someone's secondary backup or given to the kids. After all, why go through what you went through, upgrading your PC, when for the same price I spend every five years upgrading my Mac, over $2500, a PC user could easily upgrade every other year over that same five years.

My main point was esthetics and user enthusiasm. In my experience, the average Apple user is a fan of the hardware. I look at my 5 year old MacBook Pro, and I find it a machine that I still find pleasant to use, and even today, find it more attractive than most current PC offerings.

Very good, equally your misquoting, and there is a good deal more Windows based systems in use than OS X ones, nor are they simply junked after the first couple of years of use. The lifecycle VFM once stood in the Mac`s favour not so much now thx to the bloat now served up with OS X.

Just because "you" didn't manage to make a 2012 (or older) windows laptop last and work till date doesn't mean its not possible. Case in point, I bought my 15" Asus in 2011, still working in perfect condition. My college friends brought even older laptops such as Gateway for programming class.

I've replaced the battery and swapped out the original HDD (used as external drive) for a SSD, went from Windows 7, 8, 8.1 to 10. Still running like a champ.

Have a base 15" 2014. But the retina screen makes me treat this laptop like a glass cannon.

Q-6

 

[izzyfanto]

We don't need massive leaps in technology, rather I feel we need more imagination, some are coming up with new ideas, and interesting implementations, others are not....Yes Mac OS with Touch & Pencil support with the appropriate hardware, not the IPP...I believe so, as the the interactive display opens and brings new dimensions & dynamics to the personal computer. Clearly this implementation of technology is more suited to devices that are more portable. I find it difficult to see any negative for a 12" rMB or 13" rMBP configures as a convertible, nor am I sugesting that this should be a default configuration for all, more same as the Lenovo X1 Carbon & X1 Carbon Yoga an option on the table.

I think a lot of these ideas you speak over are not implemented very well in the competition's devices....obviously my opinion, not trying to be inflammatory. The battery life on the SurfaceBook tablet mode is horrible, which makes it tied to the base instead of the IPP where it's thin, lightweight and has great battery life regardless if you bring the keyboard. I have heard it's very hard to balance them on the lap since they're so floppy (especially the plain Surface). And trying to touch the screens just makes them wobble. The same could be said about the IPP, but that's why I haven't bought a IPP because it can't actually do what I need it to and I don't use touchscreens for anything like drawing. Also, for the Yoga it seems odd to have keys on the backside, being thickness and weight added as well as annoying to not have a smooth surface to grip on the back. They all just feel like half-baked ideas.

I also feel that MacOS is becoming ever more a vehicle for social media over productivity, with recent iterations suffering stability issues.

Can you expound a little on the social media vs productivity? I haven't I felt any stability issues. That's just me though.

 

[jeremiah256]

Very good, equally your misquoting, and there is a good deal more Windows based systems in use than OS X ones, nor are they simply junked after the first couple of years of use. The lifecycle VFM once stood in the Mac`s favour not so much now thx to the bloat now served up with OS X.

Q-6

Apologize, but I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're trying to say or if you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I don't know what I misquoted. I'm not talking about a couple of years, I'm talking about, as a percentage, how five year old PCs are used vs five year old Macs, not the overall quantity of each. And I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to bloat on a Mac vs a PC.

 

[sevoneone]

Not to mention that the cpu in the 15" pro is 2 years old?

Are the top end Skylake HQ chips even available at this point? Googleing it, I can't seem to find any manufacturers shipping a laptop with the top end Skylake mobile chips: 6870HQ or 6970HQ. The fastest skylake HQ chips I can find in-the-wild benchmarks on Geekbench for is the 6770HQ or the 6920HQ and even the 6920HQ doesn't have much of an edge on the 4980HQ that is in the current top end 15" pro, plus the xx20 chips have the lower tier graphics, which isn't suitable for Apple's needs. So we're back to Apple is waiting for the "good" goods that will make a significant update. Makes some logical sense.

At least it makes a lot more sense than why the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in 3 years now....

 

[terraphantm]

I literally just sold my 2012 rMBP as a down-sizing exercise. However, I kind of agree that not much has changed. Yes, SSDs are faster....but you'd never notice it in the real world most of the time. The CPUs and memory were fast enough back then and have remained competitive today. The biggest difference is in ports - namely Thunderbolt 2, 802.11ac and so forth. Those by themselves aren't compelling enough to upgrade.

And 802.11ac can be added to the 2012 rMBP for under $100. I did it on mine a couple years ago and it works great

 

[Queen6]

Apologize, but I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're trying to say or if you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I don't know what I misquoted. I'm not talking about a couple of years, I'm talking about, as a percentage, how five year old PCs are used vs five year old Macs, not the overall quantity of each. And I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to bloat on a Mac vs a PC.

I never wrote what you quoted...

Q-6