This is just like when the MacBook Air was launched: expensive, underpowered, lacking some features but ahead of its time. This is what apple tends to do: release something groundbreaking and a bit ahead of its time to make a big splash, and as the CPU manufacturers improve the products becomes much more attractive to a wider audience. I'd give this one or two years before it becomes worth the money for more general consumers and prosumers.
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MacBook Review Roundup: Major Design Appeal, but Too Many Key Compromises
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It has much more processing power than old notebooks of last decade and thousand times more if you count old Powerbooks of 1990s - and they were extremely useful. I did quite a work on them back then. Its now much more powerful, got great display you could't even dream about. With adapter, you can use wide array of any USB devices and hook an external display: nothing to worry about, truly and its as useful as any of the great Macs before.
This is where most people are, save the die-hard Apple maniacs. Don't get me wrong, I love their products... usually. This round of releases though are very disappointing. And it's funny to see people here saying "oh but it's just a first generation product. Wait a couple years and it will be better and cheaper." That basically says anyone the tech isn't here today to do it RIGHT, so Apple works by half-measure. When has Apple been one to compromise like that?
One thing I will say, which I said when I first saw the new MB, is that I think we've now reached the point of diminishing returns when it comes to thinness in a laptop. They're not like tablets, which are just a screen you jab with your finger. They could be as thin as a human hair, and still perform their intended function. This isn't the case with laptops. If you go too thin, you'll ruin the functionality of very things why you bought a laptop in the first place: the keyboard and trackpad.
I think the new MB is about as thin as we'll be able to go without switching to another form factor entirely. You can go lighter. New materials, and future battery tech will allow for that. But thinner? Nope. We've now reached the pinnacle.
My original post was about how people keep criticizing the MacBook for things it was never meant to be. Your response was that that's because they should have made the MacBook Air better instead.
That's not a reason for criticizing the MacBook. It's a reason for criticizing Apple.
I stand by my original point, and I don't see the point in blaming the MacBook for not being a new and improved Air. If you do, then this is where we part ways because I think you're wasting your time and I can't keep wasting mine by pointing that out.
I'm not defending them, but it's clearly obvious that YOU ARE NOT the target audience. Lets think about this logically. If you don't want to buy it, then you weren't really the audience. I don't understand why people don't get this. When given choices, company's don't think you're the target audience for all of their products, that's why there is a lineup of CHOICES.
Not a great machine, I agree with you, at least from my personal opinion. Now, to those that are the target audience, they'll probably think it is a great machine. See how perspective works? I think it's over priced, under performing. Which brings me to my next point.
Future of Macbooks, of course it is. You'd have to be crazy to think it isn't... hence it being called a Macbook. Like it or not, Airs will be phased out soon (within next year or so). It's the same way the Airs first came in, over priced and under powered at $1700 or $1800 (can't remember) yet now they go for ~1K.
So yeah, my personal view is it isn't a great machine and apparently we agree on that. But the "you're not the target market" is true, so is it's "the future of macbooks". If you disagree on the target market aspect, then why haven't you bought every single product Apple offers? Reason you haven't is, you're not the target market.
How exactly is expensive, underpowered, and lacking features "ahead of its time?" Because it's thin and doesn't have a fan? They can only get away with that because the darn thing is, as you said, expensive, underpowered, and lacking features.
I hate to say it, but the comparison to a Chrome Book is dead on... Other than the $1000+ you'd save going with a Chrome Book.
I wouldn't mind getting one eventually. Thin is cool. Fanless is a nice touch. Retina display should be a standard. IPS should be standard too.
But the huge kicker is how the adapter so the Type C port can work with a Type A plug doesn't. come. with. the. laptop. Like what. the. flip.
Out of the box, the Type C port is no different from a power port. And the adapter costs $80 (IIRC). The flip man? You'll also need a Type C adapter to HDMI. How much is that going to cost? And then you'll maybe need a Type C port bank.
Sure, you can make the argument that in time Type C will become ubiquitous but then I'll say that Apple should remove the free adapter when that happens.
But this is really a crummy way to treat a customer when the core principle about Apple seemingly is "user experience" and "keeping it simple"
But the huge kicker is how the adapter so the Type C port can work with a Type A plug doesn't. come. with. the. laptop. Like what. the. flip.
Out of the box, the Type C port is no different from a power port. And the adapter costs $80 (IIRC). The flip man? You'll also need a Type C adapter to HDMI. How much is that going to cost? And then you'll maybe need a Type C port bank.
Sure, you can make the argument that in time Type C will become ubiquitous but then I'll say that Apple should remove the free adapter when that happens.
But this is really a crummy way to treat a customer when the core principle about Apple seemingly is "user experience" and "keeping it simple"
Who the hell runs Geekbench with multiple programs open (Geekbench is designed to use 100% of all CPU resources it can get). That is like testing a situation that is not a normal scenario and you would only do that if you wanted to prove the machine cannot perform even if it can.
Multiple programs open only really tests MEMORY. Most applications take CPU resource in spurts, the greatest is at startup time. Multiple programs test that you have enough memory as to prevent paging out to disk.
As the reviewers are now finding out.... it fits the majority of needs when it comes to performance... but it is not designed to replace for those that really NEED an top of the line i7.... but most people run their current processors 90% idle most of the time.
Shedding weight always costs money.
Just ask people into road-bikes or mountain bikes.
Want a lighter bike? Pay more for a carbon frame (that may or may not be more stable but is a bit more delicate to handle).
Want a lighter (like 17g lighter) bottle holder made of carbon? Pay trice the price of a normal one.
The price of the adapter to connect a display is in line with that ;-)
This thing is the carbon road bike that pro-racers drive.
Only, it doesn't cost 10k, just 1.3k.
For me and what I do, it would probably be OK.
When I'm away from my desk (maybe biking or sitting at the lake while I'm on call), I certainly don't want to attach an USB drive to it. Or a DVD-writer or a display.
People who have business-case for this (and a business to pay for it) will not object to the price.
Just ask people into road-bikes or mountain bikes.
Want a lighter bike? Pay more for a carbon frame (that may or may not be more stable but is a bit more delicate to handle).
Want a lighter (like 17g lighter) bottle holder made of carbon? Pay trice the price of a normal one.
The price of the adapter to connect a display is in line with that ;-)
This thing is the carbon road bike that pro-racers drive.
Only, it doesn't cost 10k, just 1.3k.
For me and what I do, it would probably be OK.
When I'm away from my desk (maybe biking or sitting at the lake while I'm on call), I certainly don't want to attach an USB drive to it. Or a DVD-writer or a display.
People who have business-case for this (and a business to pay for it) will not object to the price.
No, you don't trust. Apple has their well thought out and developed product plans. And you are indeed confused, thinking they don't put much effort into the process and consider your expert guidance, and that what you recommend never entered their mind in discussions. Perhaps they have more insight and data than yourself as to what a certain segment of their customers are looking for, rather than what you want it to be?
The new MB, is a new product. Thinner, 33% lighter, excellent battery life. The new MB will follow the footsteps of the Air, to where it is today as their best selling laptop, despite the "beatings" you believe they took when it was introduced.
The new Macbook has a good performance. It's faster than my late 2010 Macbook Air, and at the same time it doesn't have any fans. I use that Macbook Air for intense computing tasks (yes, contrary to human [miss]belief, the MBA can crunch numbers), so this new Macbook could do it even faster, and without the fan noise.
However (yes, you knew there was a however), it's unreasonably poor in RAM.
If it could be configured with 16GB RAM or 32GB RAM, I might be tempted to replace my Macbook Air with the new Macbook. But with just 8GB I'll pass this one.
Btw, I've no idea what's Apple waiting for releasing a 8GB GPU on the iMac or the Macbook Pro. Come on, guys, 8GB GPUs are becoming widespread in the proconsumer market, and yes, I want one.
However (yes, you knew there was a however), it's unreasonably poor in RAM.
If it could be configured with 16GB RAM or 32GB RAM, I might be tempted to replace my Macbook Air with the new Macbook. But with just 8GB I'll pass this one.
Btw, I've no idea what's Apple waiting for releasing a 8GB GPU on the iMac or the Macbook Pro. Come on, guys, 8GB GPUs are becoming widespread in the proconsumer market, and yes, I want one.
Exactly! The reactions back then were the same; Apple is taking "thin" to far, it's underpowered and overpriced.
Yes, it is all true, but that's the price for a notebook from the future. Buy now and live with the compromises or wait one year and get a better product and a better value.
This is sort of a transition year. The MBA is old and not very exiting (especially the screen) and the MB is a hint of what's to come but a compromise in it's current shape.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
OK. I'm glad you know if I trust or don't trust.
I didn't say that at all. I'm sure they put tons of thought & effort into this. That's fueling my confusion.
That's certainly a possibility.
And it doesn't matter what I "want it to be." I'm just talking about "what it is" and trying to think it through like any other prospective buyers or non-buyers.
Again for about the seventh time I've written it (can anyone say "dead horse"?), the "beating they took" is about negative PR and unimpressed Apple customers. Both of those are clear even within this very thread. That's not saying every customer is unimpressed (take, for example YOU) nor that every bit of PR is negative. But there is a fair amount of that (both ways) that you can go and read for yourself right within this thread.
Like you, I have confidence the product will evolve like the Air did to become one that will get more positive PR and impress nearly all Apple customers so that it can become a "best selling laptop". My point is and has been, why repeat the negative PR and unimpressed customer scenario when they could have just sat on it until it got to the much more desirable, likely best seller 2nd or 3rd generation "Air" level and then roll THAT one at as a first generation new rMB?
I hope this one sells like mad. If it does, feel free to come back and quote me and rub it in making up lines I haven't said like "no one will like it" or "no one will buy it" if that makes you happy. I'm confident "a certain segment of their customers" will definitely be all over this... and the Watch too. And good for those customers... and good for Apple.
I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND that YOU like it, that you can see it in a much more positive light than me, etc... and that's just fine. I'm thrilled that you like it and that you see it so positively. I'm sure Apple is thrilled too. Go buy one. Enjoy it. They make products for you and me. This one appears to be for you.
I thought the 2010 Macbook Air came with ONLY 2GB standard and 4GB maximum? I upgraded my Mac Pro 2008 with 10GB of memory at the beginning and I rarely use all of it. 8GB is more than enough for almost everyone's needs (with the exception of a few video professionals and they probably would not be running video editing on the new Macbook anyway).
What is unreasonable about 8GB (and yes I run the latest OS and software).
Not going to read through 260+ comments to see if its been mentioned, but one thing that gripes me to no end are the benchmarks.
Everyone keeps taking the bottom of the barrel base config 2015 Macbook and comparing it the non standard build to order only high end i7 version of the 2011,12,13 etc Macbook Airs. How about comparing it to the base i5's people. And for that matter the new Macbook comes in 3 speeds. The fastest of which is not available to any other manufacturer at this time.... and is considerably faster than the base cpu.
The optional 1.3 Core M turboboosts all the way up to 2.9ghz which is a huge jump over the base model. For those that need it and money isn't an object, this will be fine.
Everyone keeps taking the bottom of the barrel base config 2015 Macbook and comparing it the non standard build to order only high end i7 version of the 2011,12,13 etc Macbook Airs. How about comparing it to the base i5's people. And for that matter the new Macbook comes in 3 speeds. The fastest of which is not available to any other manufacturer at this time.... and is considerably faster than the base cpu.
The optional 1.3 Core M turboboosts all the way up to 2.9ghz which is a huge jump over the base model. For those that need it and money isn't an object, this will be fine.
Tim: Hey Jony, I want you to come by my office say, 3 o'clock April 10 (tomorrow's apple watch opening day). Do you think you have some time?
Ive: sure Tim, let me reschedule that meeting with Phil on how to market to everyone who buys an rMB why they will need TWO adapters.
Tim: Yes, regarding that issue, can you get Angela on speaker call as well after our meeting, i'll tell you when we meet.
Ive: What's this about, I'm starting to get a sense you are concerned about something?
Tim: yes, Jony, it's just bothering me when i lay down to sleep at night. In fact, my apple watch actually notifies me that I am not sleeping well at night...
Ive: What's the problem - why don't we talk now?
Tim: (standing in the hallway; pulls Jony to an empty office): Jony, I don't know how to put it to you in a way that won't hurt our relationship...
Ive: (flummoxed by the look on Tim's face): Tim, we can talk about anything. You know after Jobs' departure, we have been hand holding and we are in this journey together...
Tim: I'll get right to the point - Have you see the reviews regarding the rMB? Have you seen the reviews regarding the apple watch? I'll let the apple watch go for now...but the issues with the new rMB really have me concerned. In fact, when you brought it to me 8 months ago and I said yes, eureka, this is it! I wasn't so sure before launch day and in fact during the keynote, I tried my best to praise this device and pretend its as great as the MBAir.
Ive: (looking at Tim without even blinking once): Tim, you signed off on this project from the moment I showed you. Look at that interview from one of the employees who was laughing hysterically. Did you base your concerns on that particular video or is this something personal?
Tim: I've seen that video and I don't care if that employee is 95% correct, it will make us rich no doubt - my concern is you shouldn't of made it so thin. I mean i have to run this by Phil to somehow have him spin this off magically to people so they will buy adapters. I know this quarters profits will skyrocket on just the adapters alone but I'm concerned with the future of these laptops. They are just too thin...
Ive: This is rich, Tim. Coming from a typical bean counter like yourself, you should be on bended kneed sucking me off right now if it weren't for my genius of making the new rMB require extra adapters to do the most basic things, you'd be looking at a declining profit margin at apple. I swear to Jobs' right before he left us, he told me specifically to be balls deep in any design I come up with. Now I get this crap from you?!
Tim: Jony, alright, I'll wait until you are calm and we can continue this topic. In the mean time, meet with Phil we really need his help to sell more adapters. Didn't you tell me we will remove the headphone jack from the next iPad AIR?
Ive: That's correct, we will remove the headphone jack on the next iPad air and in order to charge the device while we use the headphone, we will require an adapter. Phil is writing up the marketing script for that one right now.
Tim: Good grief (while chuckling), at this rate, we will probably make more money selling adapters than we do apps.
Ive: Well, you worry about how to get those chinamen to produce more iPhones. I will continue to produce thinner laptops because I'm the man for this job. as for that apple watch, samsung's COO texted me; he said was it ok to copy that watch design. I said what do you think? You didn't ask me when you made that S6.
Tim: (laughing out loud): Jony, i know you are not happy about Samsung stealing the design but seriously, how was it possible they made it thinner than your iPhone 6 design?!
Ive: (turns away and walks down the hallway)...
Ive: sure Tim, let me reschedule that meeting with Phil on how to market to everyone who buys an rMB why they will need TWO adapters.
Tim: Yes, regarding that issue, can you get Angela on speaker call as well after our meeting, i'll tell you when we meet.
Ive: What's this about, I'm starting to get a sense you are concerned about something?
Tim: yes, Jony, it's just bothering me when i lay down to sleep at night. In fact, my apple watch actually notifies me that I am not sleeping well at night...
Ive: What's the problem - why don't we talk now?
Tim: (standing in the hallway; pulls Jony to an empty office): Jony, I don't know how to put it to you in a way that won't hurt our relationship...
Ive: (flummoxed by the look on Tim's face): Tim, we can talk about anything. You know after Jobs' departure, we have been hand holding and we are in this journey together...
Tim: I'll get right to the point - Have you see the reviews regarding the rMB? Have you seen the reviews regarding the apple watch? I'll let the apple watch go for now...but the issues with the new rMB really have me concerned. In fact, when you brought it to me 8 months ago and I said yes, eureka, this is it! I wasn't so sure before launch day and in fact during the keynote, I tried my best to praise this device and pretend its as great as the MBAir.
Ive: (looking at Tim without even blinking once): Tim, you signed off on this project from the moment I showed you. Look at that interview from one of the employees who was laughing hysterically. Did you base your concerns on that particular video or is this something personal?
Tim: I've seen that video and I don't care if that employee is 95% correct, it will make us rich no doubt - my concern is you shouldn't of made it so thin. I mean i have to run this by Phil to somehow have him spin this off magically to people so they will buy adapters. I know this quarters profits will skyrocket on just the adapters alone but I'm concerned with the future of these laptops. They are just too thin...
Ive: This is rich, Tim. Coming from a typical bean counter like yourself, you should be on bended kneed sucking me off right now if it weren't for my genius of making the new rMB require extra adapters to do the most basic things, you'd be looking at a declining profit margin at apple. I swear to Jobs' right before he left us, he told me specifically to be balls deep in any design I come up with. Now I get this crap from you?!
Tim: Jony, alright, I'll wait until you are calm and we can continue this topic. In the mean time, meet with Phil we really need his help to sell more adapters. Didn't you tell me we will remove the headphone jack from the next iPad AIR?
Ive: That's correct, we will remove the headphone jack on the next iPad air and in order to charge the device while we use the headphone, we will require an adapter. Phil is writing up the marketing script for that one right now.
Tim: Good grief (while chuckling), at this rate, we will probably make more money selling adapters than we do apps.
Ive: Well, you worry about how to get those chinamen to produce more iPhones. I will continue to produce thinner laptops because I'm the man for this job. as for that apple watch, samsung's COO texted me; he said was it ok to copy that watch design. I said what do you think? You didn't ask me when you made that S6.
Tim: (laughing out loud): Jony, i know you are not happy about Samsung stealing the design but seriously, how was it possible they made it thinner than your iPhone 6 design?!
Ive: (turns away and walks down the hallway)...
I need to set AdBlock Plus to filter all "The Verge" related things. Ugh.
PS: MacRumors, the word is TITBITS, not TIDbits...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
PPS: I've never experienced SO many basic grammatical errors from journalists.
PS: MacRumors, the word is TITBITS, not TIDbits...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
PPS: I've never experienced SO many basic grammatical errors from journalists.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Because the goal of objective reviews is not to be biased to the positive as much as possible. Else, why not compare this to the first laptop Apple ever made? This thing would pretty much slaughter than one in every way. Objective reviewers are not supposed to be PR representatives. Their job is to review with indifference for any company or product.
The goal is usually relative value. For example, relative to what else can be bought for the price of this today, how does this stack up? Often what buyers want from reviews is an answer to "does this give me the most for my money?"
The problem here is that relative to it's price, one can get a much cheaper Air or a cheaper rMBP, both of which offer far more in many specs and benefits that used
to matter to laptop buyers. I've come down on this product in this thread. It's not that I'm unimpressed with it on its own or as a feat of engineering and so on... it's WOW! It's cool. It's "thinnest & lightest". Etc. But if I want to buy a new Apple laptop and a very specific set of benefits are not paramount, I buy one of the others, save money and get "more" (as I judge "more" myself, which is not necessarily how you or anyone else would just "more").
I joked earlier that this appears to be for the person who can say something like this: "I want the thinnest & lightest new Apple laptop that can run OS X and I don't care about price, power or ports". This is for them. If you want more power or built-in popular ports or only have light computing needs or care about price, every other alternative mobile computer from Apple may be a better alternative... from iPad or iPad with Keyboard to Air or rMBP. Nothing wrong with that (they're all Apple goodies).