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MacBook Screen
- Thread starter iMaccore2
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Mosx, hexonxonx, Consultant: this is exactly what I wanted to say, please see quote above.
One thing is discussing the benefits of calibration, another thing is admitting that the Macbook displays are 'just not good' for images with high black levels. The colours are fine, the contrast and brightness are fine too. But the Macbook displays have a terrible vertical viewing angle, and it loses contrast and black level at even a moderate tilt.
Again, I can only admit that I don't have those problems with my current Vaio TX (LED) (OK, the laptop was £1,400 one year ago and top of the range as far as Sony displays go). I really want a portable mac badly, I've had enough of Windows...in particular of Vista, but those screens are just not good yet.
Let's hope that the next Macbooks have the Air displays...
Yeah I gave up watching moves on my blackbook. The bottom would be SO washed out and the top would be way too contrasted.. almost doing the whole iPod touch negative black thing.
Most other companies will give you a decent screen for cost of even the base Macbook, but with Apple we're given bottomfeeder screens. I know for a lot of people here $1,200 is a lot of money and they just don't have the heart to admit their screen is from a junkyard, but Macbook screens are pretty bad and made only more insulting by the fact other laptop manufacturers are shipping equally (if not lower) priced machines with far superior screens.
Most other companies will give you a decent screen for cost of even the base Macbook, but with Apple we're given bottomfeeder screens. I know for a lot of people here $1,200 is a lot of money and they just don't have the heart to admit their screen is from a junkyard, but Macbook screens are pretty bad and made only more insulting by the fact other laptop manufacturers are shipping equally (if not lower) priced machines with far superior screens.
Not all macbook screens are created equal. It appears to be a lottery between four brands of panels, like pretty much every other laptop out there. So it's difficult to make general statements other than yes, the screens aren't as good as the MBP, but that's expected.
Sounds like the LG panels may have somewhat better vertical angles than the Samsung? I haven't seen an LG in a macbook yet, as the local Apple store's blackbooks all have the Samsung like mine, but the lighting there makes it impossible to judge anything.
Sounds like the LG panels may have somewhat better vertical angles than the Samsung? I haven't seen an LG in a macbook yet, as the local Apple store's blackbooks all have the Samsung like mine, but the lighting there makes it impossible to judge anything.
Well, what he is saying is false as well. I have the LG panel on my MacBook. The viewing angle is good from all but the most extreme angles. In fact, its almost as good as most modern LCD TVs.
The poster you're quoting is just another one of those people who goes to extreme lengths to justify their purchase of a MacBook Pro when they know that the system is extremely overpriced for the hardware and they're having buyers remorse.
I've dealt with enough MacBook Pros, LED-lit and otherwise, to know that the same "problems" affect it that affect the MacBook.
All screens on ALL notebook PCs are basically a "lottery" as another poster said. You either get a good panel or you don't. The quality control just is not there and it doesn't matter who you buy from. With a MacBook, MBP, HP Pavilion, Dell XPS, Sony, etc. you're either going to get a good screen or you're not.
I know it would be perfectly easy for someone to show a MacBook with a better looking screen than a LED-lit MacBook Pro. I know it'd be easy to find an HP that has a better screen than the 17" MBP with the LED-lit high resolution screen. Then it'd be easy to go find MBPs with screens that look better than the other two.
Anyway, the MacBook screen is great. Anyone who says otherwise has either not calibrated it or has buyers remorse over the cost of their MBP and is trying to use every angle possible to justify to themselves that it was worth the money.
You realize that Sony doesn't make their own screens, right? Ever since Sony closed down their CRT TV and monitor production, they generally don't manufacture anything themselves. All of their parts come from the same manufacturers that Apple, Dell, HP etc. use. Even nearly all of the PS3 is built by 3rd parties. Sony just slaps their logos on it and jacks the price up.
The MacBook Air display is just a standard 13.3" panel with a LED backlight. Nothing special.
I'm not having buyers remorse at all. I actually noticed the bad viewing angle the first day my BlackBook was shipped to me while watching a DVD. It doesn't bother me because that is the only wrong with it. The colors are clear, crisp and bright and the screen is flawless in every other way.
If the viewing angle bothered me, I would have returned it that first day but it doesn't. It's only noticeable on black screens or while watching a movie. And besides, I have a 23" Apple Cinema Display to plug into my BlackBook if I so desire.
I don't need to justify anything, in fact, I initially passed on buying a MacBook and instead bought my iMac because the MacBook screens looked washed out in store. Two weeks later, I bought one anyways and have been extremely happy with it.
Besides, I have a MBP and an iMac to watch videos on.
You're complaining about the MacBook screen after watching a DVD on it?
You do realize that DVD Player, even on Leopard, is the worst software currently available for watching DVDs, right? You fire up PowerDVD or WinDVD in Vista or XP, or Media Center in Vista, and you'll see just how BAD DVD Player is. The GMA950 and GMA X3100 don't support much in the way of video features, but even PowerDVD, WinDVD, and WMC take advantage of them and it helps push the quality above and beyond what DVD Player provides. If you have a modern dedicated GPU, then you're likely to get full hardware support for the video playback and the difference in quality will be night and day.
Complaining about image quality and basing it off DVD Player in Leopard is like complaining about a Toyota Prius not accelerating as fast as a Mustang Cobra.
Viewing angle on my MacBook with an LG panel is just fine. As I said, its nearly as good as modern LCD TVs. It's almost as good as the 37" LCD TV I have in the other room. Only with extreme angles does it get bad.
The Apple Cinema Displays are horribly outdated and overpriced. Displays costing less than half as much have better image quality, better response times, more connectivity features, and are just an all around better deal. The current ACDs were good when they were introduced SEVERAL YEARS ago. But they fall flat on their face when compared to modern screens you can get for a fraction of the cost.
Talk about irony at its finest! You do realize that Apple just lost a class action lawsuit regarding the image quality of the iMac screen, right?
Neither of which will provide as good video playback as Windows on the same machine would.
The MBP screen is of measurably better quality than the MB
While your particular MBP may only look brighter, I have found there are actually measurable differences in quality between the two in general. I have measured and calibrated several macbooks and several macbook pros. The MBP screens are significantly better in terms of color error (deltaE), grayscale, and contrast ratio. This is not just a matter of opinion, testing with a colorimeter will prove it in quantitative terms.
Using the EyeOne D2 probe I was able to calibrate most MBPs to a deltaE below 2 over most of the luminance range, whereas the MBP would get no better than about 6-8. Also, the MB contrast ratio maxed out at around 220:1 whereas the MBP hits 600:1. What this means to the viewer, is that the MBP is capable of much darker blacks, so the images will look significantly better in general.
Aside from this, I also can attest that the MBP has a wider viewing angle, which has already been explained above.
Rich
While your particular MBP may only look brighter, I have found there are actually measurable differences in quality between the two in general. I have measured and calibrated several macbooks and several macbook pros. The MBP screens are significantly better in terms of color error (deltaE), grayscale, and contrast ratio. This is not just a matter of opinion, testing with a colorimeter will prove it in quantitative terms.
Using the EyeOne D2 probe I was able to calibrate most MBPs to a deltaE below 2 over most of the luminance range, whereas the MBP would get no better than about 6-8. Also, the MB contrast ratio maxed out at around 220:1 whereas the MBP hits 600:1. What this means to the viewer, is that the MBP is capable of much darker blacks, so the images will look significantly better in general.
Aside from this, I also can attest that the MBP has a wider viewing angle, which has already been explained above.
Rich
Talk about irony at its finest! You do realize that Apple just lost a class action lawsuit regarding the image quality of the iMac screen, right?
Neither of which will provide as good video playback as Windows on the same machine would.
Yes I am aware of the lawsuit and I was surprised when I did hear about it. I thought the iMac display was the best thing I had ever seen and I still think it's pretty good..... until I got my 23" ACD. Side by side I realized that the ACD now has the better display.
Oh and as for Windows, I have had enough. 15 years of using Windows and putting up with garbage computers (HP) and crappy operating systems starting out with Windows 3.1 and 3.11 (Windows for Workgroups) made me realize there had to be something better.
I got tired over the last few years of the countless Internet Explorer has encountered a problem and needs to close messages so much that I took two nearly new laptops and smashed them to the floor and switched to Macs and have not looked back. It's actually fun using computers again. Not going back to Windows just to watch videos.
Why did you switch from the MBP to the MB? I have been considering this as well because even though the MBP screen is better than the MB, it is not enough better to be worth 500-700 more. Was this your experience too or something else?
rjp, it would be nice if you could edit your post. Your post seems very helpful but I think I had to interpret it.
Edit; Sorry, Oh, you did edit...
Edit; Sorry, Oh, you did edit...
Done. I repositioned my respose to be under the quote rather than above it.
Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Rich
EDIT: Hold on. I may need to remove the quote. I wanted to respond to the general sentiments by some that MB and MBP screens are really no different. But you are right, this guy is just saying it is the case with *his* units.
Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Rich
EDIT: Hold on. I may need to remove the quote. I wanted to respond to the general sentiments by some that MB and MBP screens are really no different. But you are right, this guy is just saying it is the case with *his* units.
rjp, I'm glad you asked why he switched. I switched too. I had a new penryn MBP and I had too many problems with it and just went back to my 1 yr old MB.
What were your problems? I still have 4 days left in my return window. Did one exchange already.
I have a black macbook from amazon sitting here unopened. What was your reason for returning it? Was it simply that it had the Samsung display? Will you be charged a 15% restocking fee??? I haven't opened mine for fear of a bad display and the fact that this would be my first mac and I dont know for sure if I will like it, I really want to open it but I don't want to pay a 15% restocking fee if I am unhappy with the purchase.
I got a refund and just started using my 2.16C2D MB that I already had. The penryn MBP was glitchy and shakey when starting, not clean (would pop) when chiming and beeping, I think the fan was buzzing under the right speaker, some surfaces would make it stop or louder, buzz was loud in external speakers, some keys would make it louder.
Then you'd be surprised how much better cheaper displays are
Years ago, when the ACDs were upgraded to the current form factor, they were the best. Now they cost about 4x more than they should for their size, specifications, and performance. You can go over to newegg and for less than $300 find higher resolution screens that are the same size as what you bought, more inputs, 1,000:1 contrast ratio, 5ms (color) response time (compared to the ACD's 16ms). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002359 Look at that one. A little more than half of what the ACD costs. 24", 1,000:1 contrast ratio, 5ms response, VGA, DVI, Component, HDCP certified HDMI input. Garbage computers eh? You realize that Apple uses Asus and Quanta to build their systems, right? The same people who build HP computers
Windows 3.1 and 3.11 were about the same, quality wise, as Mac OS 7 (System 7 to the old schoolers). OS 7 was prettier but they were about the same overall. If you want to talk about better, Mac OS didn't even get pre-emptive multi-tasking until the final build of the first version of Mac OS X. Windows 95 had that
Better is certainly subjective. I've had OS X (Leopard and Tiger) Crash more times in the last year I've owned a Mac than the entire time I ever used Windows (a little more than you). You want to know what I was doing when those crashes occurred? Well, just the other day I clicked to open Safari. Safari opened to a blank page and the entire system became unresponsive. I had to force a shut down via the power button. Before I've had system crashes by trying to burn a DVD via Burn Folder, or by emptying the trash that only contained 2 pictures.
I had to reinstall Leopard and Tiger about 4 times each for no reason other than they were becoming increasingly unstable. What was I doing? Absolutely nothing. Just every day browsing the web and email checking. This has happened on two different machines. Meanwhile, my HP with Vista Home Premium that I've had since October has been rock solid without so much as a single hint of instability. And I've pushed it with games, encoding video, blu-ray discs, etc.
rofl yeah, nobody is going to believe that you took two things that cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars combined and smashed them on the floor.
You must be new to Macs
Once you see OS X has its own set of problems that are equally as annoying as Windows, you'll be wondering why you bought all of that overpriced Apple equipment and why you didn't just stick to cheaper PCs where you CAN control the quality. Your loss
Some of us prefer quality. And the ability to watch HD video without eating up CPU time causing the fans to kick and make a system that already runs ridiculously hot run even more hot. Back on topic, the MacBook screen is just fine. It'd be the perfect system with a dedicated GPU in the $1299 model but priced at $999 where it should be.
Return it and head over to HP or Dell. With HP you could get a 17" system with a blu-ray reader. For about $300 less you can get a 15.4" system with a blu-ray reader (both will have HDMI out), a dedicated GPU, bigger HDD, faster processor, etc. Oh, and the screens will be better
I actually still have one of the laptops, an HP 17" laptop. It's still sitting here with a smashed display with some sort of white powder leaking out. I got mad at it and meant to throw the mouse and I did, but the mouse hit the screen and shattered it. That HP cost over $1500.rofl yeah, nobody is going to believe that you took two things that cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars combined and smashed them on the floor.
You must be new to Macs
Your loss
Back on topic, the MacBook screen is just fine. It'd be the perfect system with a dedicated GPU in the $1299 model but priced at $999 where it should be.
Return it and head over to HP or Dell. With HP you could get a 17" system with a blu-ray reader. For about $300 less you can get a 15.4" system with a blu-ray reader (both will have HDMI out), a dedicated GPU, bigger HDD, faster processor, etc. Oh, and the screens will be better
From all of your posts here, it sounds like you hate Apple and would do anything to push people into buying Windows computers again. No thanks, I'm extremely happy with my most excellent iMac, BlackBook, MBP and Apple Cinema Display. If I wanted another display, yeah I could have bought two for the price of my ACD but I wanted the best and I got it, it's why I smashed my Windows computers, to have an excuse to finally dump that garbage.
Been using Macs since last July. I bought a MBP because I was so impressed with the quality of my iPhone that I had to have more and I have not been disappointed.
All three of your Macs and all three of your iPhones have cameras. Post some proof.
First off, the errors you described are definitely the type that show up when the user has been visiting sites and doing things that they shouldn't. It all boils down to user error.
Second, if you truly did do that, then you have some serious mental issues that need to be taken care of.
I don't hate Apple at all. It's just that their products are ridiculously overpriced and lacking some important features. The $1299 MacBook SHOULD have a dedicated GPU. It should be priced at $999. The entry level MacBook Pro should be priced around $1199, with the middle at $1299, and the 17" with the high resolution screen around $1499. Those are what equivalent PCs cost. If you want to keep the prices the same, PCs in that $2500 range have dual GeForce 8800M GTX GPUs with 1GB or more of memory running in SLI, faster CPUs, 4GB of memory, blu-ray burners, dual HDDs, etc.
What are you going to do when OS X finally gives you problems and its every bit as bad as Windows? Are you going to take a baseball bat to your iMac? Run over your MBP? Snap your MacBook in half?
OS X acting up and giving you problems equal to what Windows does is not a matter of IF but WHEN. It WILL happen. That I guarantee you.
Uh.. did you read my post at all? Apple Cinema Displays are anything but the best. Their contrast ratio is significantly lower, the response time is about 3 times slower. Real world reviews have shown that, overall, they just simply do not look as good as the competition. They were good all those years ago when they were upgraded to the current form factor from those toy looking plastic models. But now they pale in comparison to monitors costing half as much or even much less. You can easily get a 20" LCD display that will mop the floor with the 20" ACD for 1/3 of the price. Not to mention the ACD is lacking in connections, features, standards (like HDCP). Honestly, the ACD is a joke.
Like I said, not a matter of IF but WHEN. Something WILL go wrong and it WILL be as bad as things on Windows have been for you. What are you going to do if you haven't had those rage problems taken care of? Drive that 16GB iPhone through your iMac display?
Yes I read your post and YOU say the ACD is the worst display out today. I don't feel that way and there are lots of other people out there who would agree with me. Tonight, I was watching a DVD on my ACD via my iMac and was amazed at the quality of the colors and sharp images. Movies and internet are basically what I use my computers for. I am happy with it and I think it is an excellent display.
As for your last comment above, maybe I will smash my Macs when they start messing up, it's my money. I spent my money freely on my Macs and I am extremely happy I did.
Ah, when you are feeling smashy, please count to ten first and give me a call.
I will take those misbehaving macs of your hands and give you a Dell product worthy of smashing as a substitute atonement to the anger gods ;-)
Hi!
Couldn't resist, had to buy it! In the end I bought the 2.4 white. I have to confess that once calibrated the screen is not as bad as I thought, surely the ones on display in store have got something just not right about it. Mine appears to be good actually. But I don't want to think that I'm just lucky...Right now I just want to enjoy my new mac
Compared to the vaio tx with Vista, well, this mac is so fast! I wish I tried MacOS earlier! I'm going to sell the other PC straight away...out of the box, in less than 5 minutes (not joking) I was surfing (wifi). I remember when I got the vaio with Vista it took me the whole evening to make it work (problems with the drivers...)
In one sentence, I'm extremely satisfied with the little Apple, it's awesome. Now I understand what mac users mean when they praise their stuff...totally deserved!
Couldn't resist, had to buy it! In the end I bought the 2.4 white. I have to confess that once calibrated the screen is not as bad as I thought, surely the ones on display in store have got something just not right about it. Mine appears to be good actually. But I don't want to think that I'm just lucky...Right now I just want to enjoy my new mac
Compared to the vaio tx with Vista, well, this mac is so fast! I wish I tried MacOS earlier! I'm going to sell the other PC straight away...out of the box, in less than 5 minutes (not joking) I was surfing (wifi). I remember when I got the vaio with Vista it took me the whole evening to make it work (problems with the drivers...)
In one sentence, I'm extremely satisfied with the little Apple, it's awesome. Now I understand what mac users mean when they praise their stuff...totally deserved!
Getting back on topic, for those with "perfect" Macbook screens again - does this mean when you view a full screen of black, that the screen is actually consistently black? That is, the bottom half of the screen isn't significantly lighter than the top?
I'm a college student and must have seen more Macbooks in the last two years than you could ever imagine, add to the fact I work in an office where almost a dozen people use Macbooks. I've tinkered with more of these than I'd care to admit but I've never ever seen one with a consistent screen from top to bottom. Every Macbook has a washed out bottom and a highly contrasted top, although the severity of this issue varies from laptop to laptop - but I've seen enough now to confidently say that anyone who says they have a "perfect" Macbook screen is either in denial or just unaware of what a "perfect screen" really is.