OneMike
macrumors 603
There is definitely Quality. However, unlike Windows, Linux, etc... There isn't any competition. If you want to run osx without hack. You need their hardware. I do agree about design and build
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MacBooks are NOT overpriced!
- Thread starter shahin90
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There is definitely Quality. However, unlike Windows, Linux, etc... There isn't any competition. If you want to run osx without hack. You need their hardware. I do agree about design and build
Artimus12
macrumors 6502a
I'd agree that the OS and the whole Apple experience has to be included in any Value-For-Money comparison. Take into account that Microsoft doesn't do "bespoke" software for any PC manufacturer and you begin to see why Apple machines are so much more complete than any windows variant.
As for "over-priced"? If that were the case they wouldn't sell by the bucketload. They can only charge what the market will bear and the customer will pay. If something is a quality product you can sell it at a premium! Many have said the same about the original iPhone, it created the high-end smartphone market all on its own right out of the blocks.
Those of you commenting about resale value have a point, but it also works the other way. High resale value makes used Macs much more expensive than comparable used computers from other manufacurers. That $600 Dell is not a good buy new, but in a year or so when it's selling for $250 or less it would be a very good deal and still quite capable.
New computers depreciate badly and those that don't (i.e., Apple's) usually end up being overpriced when compared to their competition. Unless I absolutely needed the performance and couldn't get it on the used market, I'd never buy a brand new computer.
New computers depreciate badly and those that don't (i.e., Apple's) usually end up being overpriced when compared to their competition. Unless I absolutely needed the performance and couldn't get it on the used market, I'd never buy a brand new computer.
Artimus12
macrumors 6502a
...nor a brand new Car, Hifi, Clothing, etc. as the same can be said for those too.
In my opinion Apple Computers are not overpriced. Nowadays a company can't afford to sell overpriced products, because of there's a harsh competition in technology markets.
If you consider Apple MacBooks Pros 13" models all have an Intel Core i5, and an SSD and a minimum of 8GB with a starting price of $1299 and a retina Display (better than Full-HD quality display).
Whilst comparing other notebooks from other companies, including HP, Dell, Acer among others, they offer much less priced notebooks but do not comprise a Core i5, 8GB RAM and an SSD.
These would include an Intel Pentium, Celeron or an AMD CPU, and the average amount of RAM would be 4GB nowadays, 500GB, and less than Full HD quality display.
When comparing these differences alone, one can conclude that even though the least priced Apple MacBooks aren't as cheap as $400 but they don't even offer a model with a Core i3 (entry level of the Core models, which are good enough for normal day use).
The entry-level MacBooks (13" models) can run PhotoShop with ease whilst other entry-level notebooks struggle whilst running PhotoShop and high processing applications.
If you compare Ultrabooks, the MacBook Air are very cheap when compared with some other Ultrabooks from other brands, and still offer good performance for every-day use operations.
One can't exclude the Software which comes with Computers.
Apple ffers MAC OS X with their computers which is very user friendly and stable (the claim not based on the latest OS X Version 10.10 Yosemite, although I am not disappointed with it) and comes bundled with quite a list of free software.
Whilst others offer Windows 8.1 (very less user friendly) and don't come with free software, you would have to find similar software over the internet yourself.
Apple also offers great build design, in their products, whilst others offer little to none attractive build design especially in their entry-level notebook models.
Also if you plan to sell the MacBook in the future, it would get you a good resale price (even if you do not keep it in mind condition, while other laptops resale prices go down even if they're in like new condition.
If you consider Apple MacBooks Pros 13" models all have an Intel Core i5, and an SSD and a minimum of 8GB with a starting price of $1299 and a retina Display (better than Full-HD quality display).
Whilst comparing other notebooks from other companies, including HP, Dell, Acer among others, they offer much less priced notebooks but do not comprise a Core i5, 8GB RAM and an SSD.
These would include an Intel Pentium, Celeron or an AMD CPU, and the average amount of RAM would be 4GB nowadays, 500GB, and less than Full HD quality display.
When comparing these differences alone, one can conclude that even though the least priced Apple MacBooks aren't as cheap as $400 but they don't even offer a model with a Core i3 (entry level of the Core models, which are good enough for normal day use).
The entry-level MacBooks (13" models) can run PhotoShop with ease whilst other entry-level notebooks struggle whilst running PhotoShop and high processing applications.
If you compare Ultrabooks, the MacBook Air are very cheap when compared with some other Ultrabooks from other brands, and still offer good performance for every-day use operations.
One can't exclude the Software which comes with Computers.
Apple ffers MAC OS X with their computers which is very user friendly and stable (the claim not based on the latest OS X Version 10.10 Yosemite, although I am not disappointed with it) and comes bundled with quite a list of free software.
Whilst others offer Windows 8.1 (very less user friendly) and don't come with free software, you would have to find similar software over the internet yourself.
Apple also offers great build design, in their products, whilst others offer little to none attractive build design especially in their entry-level notebook models.
Also if you plan to sell the MacBook in the future, it would get you a good resale price (even if you do not keep it in mind condition, while other laptops resale prices go down even if they're in like new condition.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
There's no competition within the platform, yes but then that's Apple's major strength as well. MS has to write so may drivers and be compatible on some many variations. Apple can draw on a tight integration of software and hardware. While we as the consumer have no choice on the hardware (outside of a hackintosh), the upside is a better user experience.
No, you applied a 20% tax rate to the US (converted to pound sterling) price which is incorrect as US state tax when buying from the online apple store is lower, sometimes 50% lower than UK VAT.
So using your $1299 example, and the state of Massachusetts, worked out on the apple store website this comes to a total of $1,380.19 incl. tax which is 910.38 GBP, again lower than the post tax UK cost of the same machine.
There's basically zero competition in the OS X market. Saying competition keeps pricing down applies to windows where you have multiple manufactures competing with the same platform. No such thing exists for OS X so apple can charge whatever they feel is appropriate and consumers have to either accept it or switch to windows.
New Dell XPS 13 --> i5, 256 SSD, 8 gig Ram , price = 1149.... pretty comparable IMO
Comparing an entry level $1300 macbook to an entry level $400 dell, as repeated in this thread, just doesn't work. Any 1300 dollar machine apple or otherwise will be handle to run photoshop with relative ease. 400 Dollar budget laptops simply are not intended to be used for design. Once you get realistic with which windows machine you are comparing to the macbook, the difference in performance more or less disappears.
Dell really cheaped out there. The Broadwell chip in there has the HD5500 instead of the HD6000 or 6100. If they want to sell premium, they ought to at least spring forth that $30 or so difference. Bulk pricing is likely less than that. They certainly aren't milling bodies so the price should at least reflect better components internally.
A lot of PC OEMs are on the same route just like last generation opting for the HD4400 instead of 5000. Doesn't instill much confidence in me when they still play the lowest price game yet try to present themselves as higher-end with faux materials.
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acctman
macrumors 65816
get a rMBP and run BootCamp... system will boot directly into Windows. Now you'll have OS X / Unix Variant / Windows all on one system
That's basically what apple did with the 750m in the 15" rmbp...profit over performance. It's still early, so there's a good chance that as broadwell becomes more widely incorporated into laptop lineup's you will start seeing the hd6000's...I haven't looked into the benchmark details but in gaming fps the 5500 is about the same as the iris on notebookcheck.net
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Thanks captain. If you read my post before you start talking you will realize I mentioned that's what I'm doing right now. Windows experience through bootcamp is a hassle and annoying for someone who has to use Windows day to day.
No arguments here for the 750M. A Maxwell 8xx refresh would have been nice but who knows, perhaps they wanted more or felt no need to change up anything but the RAM last year. I'm hoping they go Maxwell since it should be a big boost architecturally now that it isn't compute-limited (sort of irrelevant but that was a complaint against Nvidia).
Skylake's GT4e looks good to replace 750M entirely; another GT3e refresh would be disappointing and I will direct the same cheapness statements at Apple.
I doubt the HD5500 will match Iris. It's only 24 EUs from HD6000/6100's 48 and throttled due to the 15W TDP. Yeah, the HD6000 in these 15W chips will probably suck too but at least the user is getting something new and decent albeit thermally limited instead of a cheap decision.
Dell is driving a higher resolution so I feel they ought to have included the faster IGP if nothing but for that alone. Offer it on the higher-end models but nope, same across the board.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
Why is running windows a hassle and annoying? Your op mentions how the MBP isn't overpriced and you'll not buy a Lenovo again. You seem to infer that windows on a MBP is a better option or did I miss something?
Overpriced is highly subjective (and overused) just as expensive, cheap, good, bad, better, worse, etc are. For some MacBooks are overpriced, for others they're not. Arguing over what one thinks should be a universal statement on such matters is pointless.
Are you unable to use Parallels or Fusion?
Sadly for my salary, they are overpriced. However; I really like their design and quality of the materials that Apple use. I paid over $2000 for mine, but I don't regret it
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Windows experience through Bootcamp is identical to any other laptop with similar characteristics on the market. I have no idea why you would call it a hassle unless you refer to using Windows as a hassle.
I noticed this when I was building my gaming tower. Im not complaining because I'm fortunate to have the best of both worlds but I was shocked how close specs & pricing got. Given that people give off the vibe that apple products are more expensive than any other.
Mr. Buzzcut
macrumors 65816
Honestly, I have to agree with shahin90. Apple gimps the drivers, especially the touchpad. Windows works better under VMWare than Bootcamp, IMO. There may be other reasons but that killed it for me.
I'm starting to question the whole "Macs have higher resale value" thing. I have my 15" MBP (early 2011) up for sale on Kijiji and I can't even get my asking price of $950 for it. Someone offered me $450. It's in perfect condition cosmetically and works wise. Here are my specs.
15" hi-res antiglare display (1680 x 1050)
2.0Ghz quad core i7
8GB ram
500GB SSD Samsung EVO 840 (upgrade)
500GB HDD installed into the optical drive slot. (Still have the optical drive)
256MB AMD 6490M graphics
Intel HD3000 512MB (shared)
FW800
Thunderbolt
USB2
Backlit keyboard
poiihy
macrumors 68020
If MacBooks are a "good value"... then why does Apple have 20% profit margin while HP, Dell, Lenovo, Asus, Acer, etc, have ~1% profit margin? Seems to me that these "cheap PCs" have more bang for the buck; or is there a lot more to this? I've heard Macs have much higher resale values, and "cheap PCs" have higher failure rates.
Profit margin has nothing to do with value perception. Apple can charge a premium because 1) it's the only OSX manufacturer and 2) its products can support it. PC OEMs compete on low margins because everyone has the same thing but with a different badge on top. Razor thin profits are not a way to do business or gain revenue for future developments. At the end of the day, quality design, engineering, and manufacturing has a higher per-unit cost that can't be covered by race-to-the-bottom pricing. An aluminum chassis needs milling machines and materials that are harder to come by (Apple's manufacturing leverage) and not cheap if done right.
Arguing profit margins is the wrong approach. Say the iPhone 6 costs $250 to make. If they only sold it for $300, they would not be releasing anything new each year. Wouldn't have as many stores or employees or software updates. That's how it is with others: they aren't on the forefront of technology or pushing boundaries.
EDIT: I'm sure tight inventory and retail pricing control help too.
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That machine has issues
Unfortunately the 15 inch 2011 machines have a known fault with the graphics card whereby it fails catastrophically needing a logic board replacement, which will also fail. This has lowered the second hand prices considerably.
At 4 years old it also has some other things holding it back, no usb 3, No AC wifi, no bluetooth 4, inability to run handoff with yosemite, no retina screen, no thunderbolt 2, no HDMI. The battery life on these older machines is not great either. The ssd no longer adds much of a premium as all new apple notebooks have them as standard. Indeed the only 2 things going for it are that anti glare screen and the CPU.
In short anyone who buys this is risking a catastrophic failure on ageing tech that is starting to look outclassed by the 13 inch pro. I'd say $500-$600 is about the best you can hope for at this point.
Unfortunately the 15 inch 2011 machines have a known fault with the graphics card whereby it fails catastrophically needing a logic board replacement, which will also fail. This has lowered the second hand prices considerably.
At 4 years old it also has some other things holding it back, no usb 3, No AC wifi, no bluetooth 4, inability to run handoff with yosemite, no retina screen, no thunderbolt 2, no HDMI. The battery life on these older machines is not great either. The ssd no longer adds much of a premium as all new apple notebooks have them as standard. Indeed the only 2 things going for it are that anti glare screen and the CPU.
In short anyone who buys this is risking a catastrophic failure on ageing tech that is starting to look outclassed by the 13 inch pro. I'd say $500-$600 is about the best you can hope for at this point.
Well that sucks. I paid almost $2,000 CAD for it when I bought it. And it was an Apple refurb. i haven't had the issues others have experienced with this logic board issue. Also I thought I saw a thread here saying that handoff could be run on 2011 Macs. I connect my Mac to my TV with HDMI but with an adapter. How many people know about specs like that? Many people go and buy a computer not even knowing what ram is or what an SSD is. All they want is something that works for their needs.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I can't answer on the price, but yeah, with a lot of newer technology going into the laptops the past few years really mean that the older models are showing their age. The biggest issue though is Apple's track record with discrete GPUs, the 2011 model has some serious bad mojo with this.