Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]

[zakatov]

This quote from a CNET article may answer some of your questions.

After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that."

However, Schiller said the company does not plan to let people run Mac OS X on other computer makers' hardware. "We will not allow running Mac OS X on anything other than an Apple Mac," he said.

So windows can run on mac, but can OSX run on PCs?

 

[DakotaGuy]

I have to ask this even if it has been asked before?

Anyone buying a new Mac today? ;o)

After a few years with Intel when the x86 becomes old oudated technology like the PowerPC where will Apple go then?

 

[funfunfun]

no CELLs

yeah, I was wondering why not many people are talking about CELL - apparently an order of magnitude more powerful than the best intel can hope to make in the next few years, although admitedly trickly to develop for and not yet available... but surely Apple must have considered it's vast potential and the fact that IBM are one of the 3 companies that developed them (Sony and Toshiba being the others). Why walk away from that technology? I really don't get it. Will they switch again when in 3-4 years CELL chips are kicking intels but all over the shop in workstation machines?

I'm confused,

[btw, I orderd a dual 2.7 Ghz G5 last friday. I don't mind about the news as I believe it'll still be a useful machine to me in 2 or 3 years time, even with current software.]

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

As Apple said the PowerMac won't make the trans until 2007. That is 2 years away. The P4 by then will be a memory and Intel will easily have dual core's across the board. Even Intel knows they've hit the end of the road with the P4. Bet that Intel demoed some highly secret CPU. Its rumored to be based on the Pentium M's arch.

Well, the Pentium M could have some promise and there was some mentioning of a Pentium D (based on PIII and/or PM) with built-in DRM capability, which would suit Apple's iTMS and potential online video store very well...

...but, now that the unthinkable has happened, I'm interested in as much HARD information as possible, to assess my options for the future...

 

[Marvy]

Big Endian?

Yes they will whatever protection they use it can be broken unless its a hardware level thing.

What if the Intel spinoff is a Big Endian chip? That way, it will be difficult to get any "normal" PC software running, and easy to emulate PPC code.

 

[ColoJohnBoy]

People! Calm.... calm... calm. Whether you bought a Mac a year ago or buy one tomorrow, it will not be any slower because new Macs have different processors. OSX makes Mac great, not PPC processors. Beautiful design makes Mac great, not PPC processors. Today's applications will run on tomorrow's computers. The decision to transition processors is not a flippant one; if Apple has been developing OSX for x86 from the beginning, this was a possibility forseen seven to eight years ago. If resale value of current hardware drops, the effect is counteracted by the certain drop in prices of the new hardware. Just as Steve said Apple WILL release further G4/G5 updates. The apocalypse is not impending. Bill Gates does not run Intel. Apple, though possibily targeted more, will be no more prone to viruses than they are now. At the end of the day, all will be well, and the world will live in harmony.

Are we going to react to this like teething infants screaming in the middle of the night, or rational people possessing the ability to comprehend all facets of this, all implications, both positive and negative?

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Apple is making a bold move to compete head-to-head with MS, and the timing is interesting.

More or less like David and Goliath right? The problem is, as I have stated a couple of times before, in the real world David gets his ass kicked.
The day Apple goes after MS they better have double digits marketshares, preferably 25 - 30%. My money would still not be on Apple. The reason can be summarized in one word: OFFICE

 

[savar]

I wonder what the Intel-based Macs will be called. Didn't the "Power" in PowerMac and PowerBook come from the fact that they use PowerPC chips?

No...Powermacs are named for the PPC chip, but powerbooks have existed far longer. Try searching for "Powerbook duo 270" on google and tell me what CPU it has.

 

[FoxyKaye]

Has any one asked the question why the processor on the flat panel iMac is a replaceable module??!!! What stops Apple from releasing an Intel processor module fo it??!! The Actual iMac has no G5 signage on it!!! I always asked why make the module an FRU (driving the cost up!!) unless there where more processors in the pipe and Apple wanted people to have investment protection for the monitor, disks etc...

I don't know about Apple wanting people to have investment protection, and to replace the processor you'd have to replace the entire mid-plane, but it's an interesting point. Shame the graphics card isn't replacable as well...

Here be the link... http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86812

 

[Ultimatetone]

WHY INTEL OVER AMD ???

WHY INTEL OVER AMD????

Taken from Cult of Mac (from WIRED Blogs)

Sunday, 5 June 2005 : Apple Shifting To Intel, For Hollywood's Sake

Apple wants Intel's new Pentium D chips.

Released just few days ago, the dual-core chips include a hardware copy protection scheme that prevents
"unauthorized copying and distribution of copyrighted materials from the motherboard," according to PC World.

Apple -- or rather, Hollywood -- wants the Pentium D to secure an online movie store (iFlicks if you will),
that will allow consumers to buy or rent new movies on demand, over the Internet.

According to News.com, the Intel transition will occur first in the summer with the Mac mini,
which I'll bet will become a mini-Tivo-cum-home-server.

Ultimatetone

 

[DakotaGuy]

So windows can run on mac, but can OSX run on PCs?

Schiller say no, but we will see what happens in a year or two. If Apple Computer takes a huge hit over the next couple of years with this move to Intel, they might change their minds.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

I think it was a good thing. Mac sales will increase a lot because not only you're gonna be able to run OSX on it but also Windows.

So, for all those people that want to buy a Mac Mini, iMac, etc because it's cool but don't want to switch to OSX, that's an opportunity to have both: Windows and a cool Mac.

I'm just worried about the transition period. I'm planning on getting a dual 2.7 G5 + Final Cut Studio in December and don't know what to do now.

INCREASE???? Are you kidding? Mac sales will be as good as heaters in Sahara. Who in their right mind would buy a PPC Mac now?

 

[AllieNeko]

"I just can't shake the feeling that the same chip that is running in some POS DELL is RUNNING IN MY BELOVED MAC."

Hate to tell you, almost everything in the machines comes from some of the same few suppliers, now the CPU just adds to that list.

 

[MacRohde]

This quote from a CNET article may answer some of your questions.

After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that."

However, Schiller said the company does not plan to let people run Mac OS X on other computer makers' hardware. "We will not allow running Mac OS X on anything other than an Apple Mac," he said.

Oh. My. God.

So I can buy a MacIntel and install Windows on it and then use OSX for my everyday computer stuff/schoolwork and then Windows for gaming! That's like....that's like....wait...I need to change boxers now.

 

[zwilliams07]

Microsoft isn't switching to PPC. Nor is any other computer system. Those are game consoles. Good god man, grow a clue.

Consoles these days are designed for the best bang for the buck. For consoles its all about performance/cost. Nintedo's Gamecube is PPC, it runs circles around PlayStation 2's processor and at a fraction of the cost as well. Of course no major computer manufactor is going to make a jump like that, they'd alienate their business partners, their suppliers, their consumers. "Good god man", I'm talking about performance.

Please try again.

 

[runninmac]

INCREASE???? Are you kidding? Mac sales will be as good as heaters in Sahara. Who in their right mind would buy a PPC Mac now?

Um how about that average consumer that doesn't observe the mac world?

 

[tokevino]

So windows can run on mac, but can OSX run on PCs?

Probably right:

OS X: Apple's call.
Windows: Beyond Apple's control...

 

[iMeowbot]

It's called optimisation, and can only be done for one type of arch. Doing optimisations for the G5 and G4 is enough of a pain in the butt, I don't want to know how bad the PPC vs x86 optimisation will be.

It's basically daft to try and hand optimize code for a modern CPU. the out-of-order execution will work against you. The compiler does the optimization, and the developer concentrates on picking a good algorithm.

Secondly, who will want to support a dead end arch?

We went through all this in the switch from 680x0 to PowerPC. Programs requiring more memory or disk space than the old systems could handle became a problem a looooong time before binary compatibility would be an issue.

Look back at the Windows experience too, 16-bit programs were the norm for years after the 32-bit APIs turned up.

Every developer with more then two braincells will swich archs so fast it'll hurt.

You mean less than one.

 

[365]

And then the virusses will start coming :-(

The last time I looked the vast majority of Linux distributions ran on x86 and have few if any virus' so why will OSX on x86 be any different. Most virus' target weak security that is inerrant in Windows

 

[Cue]

So...I really dont know what to think of it. I guess time will tell.

I was in the process of buying a new iBook and was waiting for the updates.

We all know that both iBooks and pBooks exceed 4 hours of battery. I haven't heard of any x86 notebooks that go over 2 1/2 hours...

 

[cwedl]

Its a shame!

Intel world domination it seams?

Shame, lets hope the Mac Cult is not over!

 

[MacinDoc]

A few random thoughts about this intel thingy...

Hope this hasn't already been said...

1. I guess we'll find out if the supposed superiority of PPC over P4 and AMD in Apple's comparisons was due to hardware or more efficient OS code. Hopefully it was the latter.

2. Apple's PowerBook G5 experiment was clearly a failure, and Apple obviously sees portable computers as their key to the future in hardware.

3. This should be VERY good for Windows emulation. You could probably even get a daughtercard to run Windows without emulation. Dual OS could be a good thing.

4. Related to #3, quite possibly higher risk of viruses and piracy.

 

[SiliconAddict]

More or less like David and Goliath right? The problem is, as I have stated a couple of times before, in the real world David gets his ass kicked.
The day Apple goes after MS they better have double digits marketshares, preferably 25 - 30%. My money would still not be on Apple. The reason can be summarized in one word: OFFICE

Yah well in this version Goliath is on the crapper compiling with his pants around his ankles and David is sneaking up behind him with a bazooka.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

After being switched to Apple about 6 months ago I really felt that I switched to a completely different platform: other processor, other computers, other OS. That changed today....

I kind of liked the "Think different" slogan. But Apple PC's are now going to be a sort of Sony Vaio machines. The only difference is the OS.

But that is my emotional side. (Isn't Apple about emotions?)

I am all with you there... whatever happened to think differently?

Businesswise it is a very smart move which guarantees growth. It will not be long before other PC vendors will start licensing OS X (wasn't that on the rumors sites a few weeks ago) and Apple will become just as big or bigger then Microsoft.

And then the virusses will start coming :-(

It will be an exciting time. That's for sure!

I couldnt disagree more... The day you will see Apple clones, buy sell options in Apple

 

[Nutter]

It's not just machine code thats architecturally dependent you know.

It goes all the way up to practcally all non interpeted code.

Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but as I understand it the vast majority of applications don't directly use architechturally dependent code. Most applications are completely abstracted from the processors architecture.

Of course, the underlying code does depend on the CPU, but it's Apple's job to revise that.

No?