Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]

[GroundLoop]

It is amazing how stupid some of you are.

I wouldn't have been so blunt....but I agree with your assessment...



Hickman

 

[acedickson]

There's still some unknowns - are the Intel chips going to be proprietary, or will OS X run on any x86 chip? If that's the case, will it also run on AMD hardware as well?

I think the implications for the normal user (those that don't write/code apps) are incredible - cheaper/faster machines with a faster cycle between speed refreshes, and the lovely ease of use of OS X.

Some of the other rumors in the past few days thought that a partnership with AMD is possible too.

I don't understand any of the negativity about the transistion. I don't have a problem with Intel or AMD. I don't like using Windows, as I'm sure most forum members agree, but they're not switching to Windows. That'd be the only reason I could see to be outraged. I agree with several people that I hope this brings the costs of Macs down.

I guess it could also be easier to upgrade your CPU in the future too. Just buy a new chip and pop it in. I guess only time will tell.

 

[FoxyKaye]

Pretty much any new app that is built using Xcode 2.1 will work on BOTH ppc and x86. A developer would have to go out of their way to make it x86-specific.

Would that more specifically be Tiger or later on a PPC? I think that might be the real tradeoff - PPC Macs will continue to be supported as long as everyone upgrades to 10.4... This isn't too bad, I suppose - maybe I'll go ahead with that new iMac anyhow, they are mighty nice...

A new build of Xcode, version 2.1, is being released today. This new release enables developers to specify PowerPC or Intel architectures. “… and you’re going to build what’s called a universal binary. It contains all the bits for both architectures,” said Jobs. “One binary, works on both PowerPC and Intel architecture. So you can ship one CD that supports both processors.”

 

[iMeowbot]

Why does everyone think Apple is abandoning the PPC? They didn't abandon the G3 when the G4 became available, and they didn't abandon the G4 when the G5 became available. Heck, even Tiger still supports machines that haven't been sold in 5 years or so.
I am pretty confident that the Macs I own will continue to be valuable and supported as well as could be expected.

Exactly. 680x0 Macs were sold alongside PowerPC models for a full two years. It would have been a support nightmare for developers to release programs that didn't work on both flavors of Mac then, and it would be again today.

 

[Hemingray]

We need to try to be optimistic. If done correctly this can be a very exciting transition.

Hear hear! For all the "doom and gloom"ers out there, you're giving a knee-jerk reaction to this. Think it over. Apple's been against a brick wall. Where was it going to go? This is the most logical road to take. I say more power to 'em!

It may be a rough next couple of years, but I'm looking forward to the outcome. Just think: no more MHz Myth!

 

[slowstar]

Ding Ding Ding - WRONG

http://www.dynamism.com/r4/index.shtml

THAT's what a powerbook should evolve to. 9 hours battery life, widescreen all for 2399. Hell, if I didn't like my MAC so much, I would be tempted to buy that machine. It's exactly what I need.

Screen too small? How about a 12.1" widescreen, 2.29 pounds enhanced battery - 7 hours.

I'll use my 12" powerbook until 2006 and pick up the first Mac/Intel ultraportable the day it's released. And I could care less about what's inside running it.

I think that INTEL have something big "Under the table" and Steve knows it.
My prediction is that in couple of weeks of time we will see something surprising, much earlier than published in news, and VERY, VERY FAST!!!

 

[t^3]

From the file at http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/universal_binary/universal_binary.pdf (p. 67):

Rosetta does not run the following:
- Applications built for Mac OS 8 or 9
- Code written specifically for AltiVec
- Code that inserts preferences in the System Preferences pane
- Applications that require a G4 or G5 processor
- Applications that depend on one or more kernel extensions
- Kernel extensions
- Bundled Java applications or Java applications with JNI libraries that can’t be translated

Edit: This file also includes x86-equivalent instructions for Altivec.

 

[arkmannj]

???

I'll Miss PPC... I thought it was a great design.

but now I have Sooo many questions.

* Does this mean we'll see mac updates as often as we see PC updates ?

* Also does this mean that we'll be able to use the same (lower priced) video cards that PC's have been using from ATI & NVidia

* how much of a perfomance boost could we expect in virtualPC / wine

* do I have to have a friggin "intel inside" sticker ?

* why not AMD....

* what do I need to do to mod my PC to trippleboot OSX / Linux / Windows

* I could go on forever....

I hope they keep it a closed architecture somehow though, keep those system configurations down to help maintain stability etc.

 

[BlairMALL]

It is curious, especially considering potential buyers

Not even a mention on "Hot News" yet, over 2 hours after the keynote is over. Apparently they're cowards. I can get used to and accept a major change like this, but not if Apple keeps people in the dark. A short keynote with so many unanswered questions and no information readily available on their website.

You can say I should be patient. They didn't decide this overnight, though. When they have new products to sell, they seem to be able to update their site in a timely fashion. Certainly they could at least post a copy of the press release on Hot News, as is customary after keynotes?

They obviously knew some/many people would react negatively to the change, or would not know what this change would mean exactly. Apparently Apple couldn't come up with anything to allay their fears, or they're just hoping people don't watch or read the news today?

I personally am fairly confident it will all work out in the end and that it was probably in Apple's and consumers' best interests in the long run, but that's thanks to the posts here at Macrumors. What about the poor souls who don't read the forums here??

This is my major concern. There is no answer for anyone who is looking to buy an apple now. It seems that they don't want to draw attention to the change, because the answer is obvious. There is no reason to buy an Apple right now.

I understand that this is probably good for Apple and perhaps even necessary in the long run, but as an apple consumer there is no place to go right now. There is no future machine, and the current line is dead.

Maybe I'll buy for art's sake.

 

[CalfCanuck]

Last month PC sales - more laptops than desktops

You are spot on, this is what it's all about - portable computers...

Yes! Steve and Apple needs some progress on their portable chips like the Pentium M.

Intel had enough sense to realize the P4 was a dog, and backtracked to develop the older P3 into the Pentium M.

It became a great chip for laptops. And Steve realized that IBM was giving him nothins - he was looking at a "laptop-driven" world without a new CPU ...

 

[admanimal]

LISTEN UP!

This is why OS X will NOT BE USABLE ON EVERYONES DELL:

First of all, there is Open Firmware. A computer without Open Firmware will not be able to run OS X as is. Now, as several people have pointed out, it may be possible to hack the software/hardware so that OS X can run without open firmware. That's all great, but there is still one problem...

OS X HAS NO DRIVERS FOR MOST PC HARDWARE!!!!

And there's no way in hell that legitimate hardware manufacturers are going to have their developers support a hacked OS. And I doubt that Apple is going to start supporting the full gamut of hardware choices like Windows does, since OS X can be a better product if they don't.

You are also NOT going to be able to install Windows on a Mac, because Windows needs a BIOS, which Macs do not have.

 

[Redneck1089]

What about games and software in the future? Will the games and software available two years from now still work on my Powermac G5?


And will these Intel processors be 64 bit still?

 

[jiggie2g]

The PPC vs. Intel war is over ....x86 wins hahahahahahahahahaha

Hector where are you I want to gloat. Your precious G5 is going to the junk bin.


I want my 15in Centrino Aluminum PowerBook Now APPLE................I can't wait a year Arghhhhhh

 

[iN8]

This is exactly what has been spooking me....

It won't be obsolete, because they will be using Universal Binaries that run on PPC & Intel. I'm sure Apple will support PPC for the foreseeable future, so you should be ok.

 

[SeaFox]

The interesting thing is that Steve said OS X has been leading a secret life for the past 5 years...able to run on both PPC and Intel.

So why didn't anyone see this in the code? I know some geeks are pulling apart the code. How did they sneak that around everyone?

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/

Shock and Awe! I found a secret website where the bottom half of OSX is available for x86 platform. It would be SOOoooo difficult to just keep the top half separate if was available for x86 as well.

 

[bartelby]

To all those saying you are now going to buy PCs...

Go ahead, but don't post threads about being crippled by viruses and all that crap on this site.
Because no-one here will really care...

 

[iGary]

I'm still throwing up in my mouth a little.

 

[leekohler]

Reservation is a good plan since your present new iMac will work and be supported for years to come. People who buy a computer today with the INTENTION of using it beyond 2 or 3 years are not looking at the lifespan of an average computer which is about 6 months to 1 year before being replaced in the market by something better (except in the case of the Dual 2 GHz G5 ). If your computer is supported for two to three years from now, you will have gotten what you paid for. Computers do not generally have a lifespan of 5-10 years. Some are used that long, I will concur, but that is not what they are built or intended for.

What? I've had my G4 sawtooth for over 5 years now. I've upgraded it over the years and it still kicks my year-old iBook's butt. There is no reason someone shouldn't expect a desktop to last at least 5 years or more. I plan on keeping this desktop until the Mactels come out. By then I'll have had it 7 years. That's one of the reason's I bought a Mac in the first place.

 

[Cougarcat]

This is awesome! I can go ahead and buy my PB G4 now without worrying that PB G5s/dual cores might come next week. And it will last me until rev 2 of the "Powerbook M" or whatever they'll call it is out. I don't think this will hinder mac sales at all. The transition is going to be a joke compared to OS X9-->OS X.

 

[DakotaGuy]

This isn't too bad, I suppose - maybe I'll go ahead with that new iMac anyhow, they are mighty nice...

If you REALLY need a new computer, they are pretty slick and fast computers. I am thinking my 1Ghz Powerbook and 1.8Ghz iMac will last me through all of this transistion so I am good there.

The BIGGEST issue I can see is when it comes time to upgrade I will want to upgrade my Powerbook first and then I will have a PPC iMac and a Intel Powerbook...two incompatible systems for future software purchases. I would hate to have to buy a Intel Office 06 and a PPC Office 06. I guess I will just have to wait it out and see. I see good things here, but always very confusing things as well.

 

[rosalindavenue]

Apple have basically just lost part of their differentiation in this announcement

True. But the major differentiation is the OS.

Who the hell is going to buy an overpriced Powermac PC in a year or so when you can have a Dell at a fraction of the price and STILL run Mac OSX.

No way this will be a problem. Dells arent going to be running OSX. There will be a special motherboard, or something, to keep OS X on apple hardware.

Bottom line: Apple was getting hung out to dry, AGAIN, by a SECOND powerPC chipmaker, particularly with notebooks. They are still stuck with a 5 year old motorola notebook chip. They had to do something.

 

[Earendil]

OMG. You guys are acting as if you are using an Apple machine because it uses a Motorola/IBM chip. A few of you have gone so far as to say you are going to buy a windows box now because of this. WHY?!

I personally use Apple computers for the operating system, and the quality of the computer is a huge bonus.

None of you are going to notice the transition, except for perhaps a faster computer. Get over yourself.

~Earendil

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

It's in Apple's best business interest for people not to continue to use their old systems for so long... That, and the "but macs have a higher resale value" argument is a direct result of the relatively slow progress in the mac world.
Now we finally do see some progress, and people are complaining? It's like the black-and-white screen iPod owners getting upset for apple releasing a color iPod.

I own a black-and-white screen iPod, and to be honest I dont see your point. I dont see it as good business screwing people over by selling them very expensive systems that will last two years. If Apple would drop their prices, ok... but then imagine how people that just bought their new PM 2.7 would feel.
This has nothing to do with resale value, I have never sold an old computer. It is about not cutting the lifespann short, which I think Apple is doing here.
I might be wrong, but I haven't been told by one person here that Rosetta will enable you to run x86 Mac programs on your PPC.
THAT is screwing people over.

 

[Cue]

To tell you the truth, Im more concerned with the fact that Apple has no new hardware delivered 'till next year's June (heck not even at the end of this year!).

What where they busy doing all this time? Releasing an iPod Shuffle and some minor speeds bumps for all Macs? :/

 

[cptcaveman]

I think that INTEL have something big "Under the table" and Steve knows it.
My prediction is that in couple of weeks of time we will see something surprising, much earlier than published in news, and VERY, VERY FAST!!!

Seriously, get over it. Mac comprises 2% of the PC market, Apple needs Intel, not the other way around.

Jobs has gone Intel because it is a faster, cooler, cheaper processor that can yield well over 3Ghz.

Pentium M has been such a raging technical success on the notebook that derivatives are being purposed for use in future desktop chips. In a year or so you will have a brand new 64bit Intel inside your beloved Mac and you will love it!