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Afterall,I m so glad that my configured 1 GHz PB 15'' is arriving on Thursday , which means i still have a choice to send it back, and wait for the intel based powerbook or whatever they are going to name it next year. 'coz i have no need for a new laptop, and I always want to have a laptop which can run both pc and mac programs at the same speed.

*keey our finger croosed that Apple will not disappoint us again with its Roadmap schedule*
 
I looked through the Universal Binary Guide Apple put up on the developer's site. 3 things jumped out that are not good:

1) Intel based Macs DO NOT have Open Firmware
2) Disk partitions are not compatible between PPC & Intel Macs
3) Rosetta only emulates G3 - no G4/G5 or Altivec support. So how did the Photoshop stuff run in the keynote? I assume most of the plugs use Altivec?
 
DrGargoyle said:
I might be wrong, but I haven't been told by one person here that Rosetta will enable you to run x86 Mac programs on your PPC.
THAT is screwing people over.

leekohler said:
Exactly, that's why people are upset. That's why I'm upset.

YOU ARE MISSING THE WHOLE POINT!!! That's why I'm upset. Until at the very least 2008 or 2009 (a year or two after Apple sells the last of the PPC Macs), any application that is meant to run on x86 will be available as a Universal Binary, which means you can run it on your PPC. THERE IS NO REASON FOR ROSETTA TO ENABLE x86 APPS TO RUN ON A PPC!!!! Universal Binary was created specifically for that purpose.
 
Its just funny

I mean first of all they have to get this stuff off the site ASAP - the baseline is the development machine for gods sake.

I mean I'm cool with it if it makes a better computer but....

Will our current machines (my brand new 20" iMac) be totally unsupported soon? I mean they say they can have a dual but developers don't have big budgets to sit around and take care of apple every time the wind blows.

THey touted this coding thing to us Audio people a while back when they introduced Audio Units - they said it takes seconds to make a VST plug-in a AU plug in and demonstrated it and blah blah blah ..... It took (and is still taking) years to get all of our plug-ins and Audio software working.

Say goodbuy to Pro Tools - they have got to be done with all this crap by now. LE still isn't supported by Tiger even though Mark Altecruz and Craig Linnsen (Apples 2 Audio Czars) said Pro Tools would be fully supported the day Tiger shipped.

If I can go to Compusa and buy a PC for 1299 that has the same junk inside that my Mac will have for $3K-4k I'm going to really have to check my head.

I love the experience as a whole but that's just silly. Then to have to rebuy all my software to work with the new x86 processor when I just rebought it all to work with OS X then AU. I am not made of this kind of money and bug testing time.

I'm so confused - Apple please post a FAQ to make some sense of this. I have 5 days to return that iMac - I may just do it and play it safe for a while - I already have too many G4 G5 potential paperweights.

P@ul
 

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Dr.Gargoyle said:
It is about not cutting the lifespann short, which I think Apple is doing here.
I might be wrong, but I haven't been told by one person here that Rosetta will enable you to run x86 Mac programs on your PPC.
THAT is screwing people over.
There is no need to have a x86->PPC translation program (rosetta or otherwise) because all new apps will be built as Universal Binaries (containing support for both ppc and x86). A developer would have to go out of their way to make an app x86-specific.
 
ruud said:
It doesn't even have to. Pretty much any new app that is built using Xcode 2.1 will work on BOTH ppc and x86. A developer would have to go out of their way to make it x86-specific.


b-i-n-g-o, b-i-n-g-o, b-i-n-g-o and bingo was his name o!

Ruud has the right idea. Xcode 2.1 is going to allow all future software to be both x86 AND PPC compatable. So the Mac you are using today will still be able to run the newer software, that is for at least the next 3-4 years, and at that point the computer will be, more or less, obsolete.

My main concern would be hardware (which could be good or bad). I really dont want to have to spend 2G's to replace my audio hardware, but then again it should just be a matter of a re-write/re-complile of the current drivers.

To me the next question is Leopard. Will it be built to be PPC and x86 compatable or only x86???

Even if Apple ships the new computers with Intel stickers on em, ill peel that sucker right off, and keep on computing.
 
Interesting that OSX for Intel will ship to Select and Premier developers soon - what are we going to run it on? Existing PCs? (which - obviously - don't have Open Firmware) If not, what?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abercrombieboy

If you REALLY need a new computer, they are pretty slick and fast computers. I am thinking my 1Ghz Powerbook and 1.8Ghz iMac will last me through all of this transistion so I am good there.

The BIGGEST issue I can see is when it comes time to upgrade I will want to upgrade my Powerbook first and then I will have a PPC iMac and a Intel Powerbook...two incompatible systems for future software purchases. I would hate to have to buy a Intel Office 06 and a PPC Office 06. I guess I will just have to wait it out and see. I see good things here, but always very confusing things as well.


Brian Hickman said:
All together now...Universal Binaries!

Hickman

I am with Hickman

Abercrombieboy you really, REALLY need to read the kenote coverage, and understand what was said. The main thing that you need to read is what apple said it will be doing to make the change as smooth as possible.
 
CTerry said:
I'm shocked I have to say. I never REALLY expected to see OS X on a x86 machine. That said, provided Apple doesn't allow other PCs to use OS X (which is what I've heard) I see no reason to object to something that will ultimately provide faster, better and possibly cheaper computers to Apples customers.

That said I'm starting university in September. As such I'm planning on purchasing a PowerBook in September. I don't run very resource intensive programs. I just wanted a laptop that would last a long time and ran OS X. I don't want Windows. I'm fed up with Windows PCs. I am pretty certain I will still buy a PowerBook, but I am worried. My course lasts 4 years. Will the PowerBook last 4 years? I don't know. I have a sneaking suspicion that Apple will try to support G4s for that long (considering that most people get a new computer every 3 or 4 years and that Apple isn't releasing x86 Macs for another 12 months) and that so will software makers, but I am worried, nonetheless, that at some point during my university career I may find my PowerBook no longer cuts the proverbial mustard. 4 years is a long time, and there is a possibility I may continue on to Masters (which would yield another year of study) on a students budget would I be able to afford the possible change of laptop? I suspect I would, but it would not be a situation I'd like to put myself in.

Think of it this way, you have two options.
A: Buy a powerbook now, and risk it not cutting the mustard for your last year of college, or perhaps in grad school.

B: Wait two years (thus for sure not having a computer for 2 years of school) and getting a computer that last through the last part of school.

It seems better to take the bet, and perhaps make it through all years of school, then to guarantee not having a computer for two years and waiting on a computer that may never have been needed in the first place.

At least that's what me with my PB going into my sophomore year is hoping! And yeah, I'll be doing a Masters in CS, so I need this sucker to last another 5 years or so!

~Earendil
 
really

Can someone explain exactly why noone should be worried about future software not running on their recently bought 3k+ machine, better than phrases like: "trust apple" "apple knows" or "if it's good enough for steve it's good enough for you"
 
Hey I got a great site for all of you...

Hey guys I have a good idea what kinds of technologies we will see in the new Apple hardware. Just go to this site, imagine a nicer looking case and OSX running on it...

www.dell.com

Apple won't be able to keep anything secret anymore on the hardware side. That will be a nice thing.
 
khollister said:
3) Rosetta only emulates G3 - no G4/G5 or Altivec support. So how did the Photoshop stuff run in the keynote? I assume most of the plugs use Altivec?
Well, photoshop runs on a G3, doesn't it? Rosetta probably uses the same non-optimized fallback code as photoshop would use on a physical G3.
 
leekohler said:
What? I've had my G4 sawtooth for over 5 years now. I've upgraded it over the years and it still kicks my year-old iBook's butt. There is no reason someone shouldn't expect a desktop to last at least 5 years or more. I plan on keeping this desktop until the Mactels come out. By then I'll have had it 7 years. That's one of the reason's I bought a Mac in the first place.
If you read the post you were responding to, it said that I concur that SOME people keep their computers for 5 years ... I owned my IIci for 8, albeit with a Daystart Turbo 601 PowerPC board in it. But the NORM is about 3 years and within 6 months to a year the computers are upgraded or replaced (by the manufacturers) with something new. I love how people will pay thousands for software and then pay every year or two for upgrades to that software, but expect never to have to upgrade their hardware to work with that new software. You can buy a lower-end Mac for $1500 or less every 3 years and the cost comes to about $10 a week. If you want top of the line, then you have to pay for it. And it is not designed to stay top of the line forever, just because you paid more for it. BMWs, Hummers, Lexus, etc all depreciate just like Ford, Chevy and Hyundai. Some a little faster, some a little slower, but they all go down.
 
aap said:
Can someone explain exactly why noone should be worried about future software not running on their recently bought 3k+ machine, better than phrases like: "trust apple" "apple knows" or "if it's good enough for steve it's good enough for you"

Universal Binaries, Universal Binaries, Universal Binaries and last, but not least Universal Binaries.
 
just to add my 2 cents

Psychologically, this was a big blow to me. I just don't like the idea of "Intel Inside" my Mac.

But I agree with those who beleive this will be a good thing for Apple. Apple has been plagued from early on with poor chip makers. IBM proved to be worse than Motorola in many ways, particularly because a) the competition for computers has become much more intense in recent years, and b) Apple has gained so much mindshare because of the success of the iPod. Intel has tons of R&D money and will be able to provide high yields and fast clock speed -- both areas where IBM fell far short.

But that's in the long-term. In the short term, Apple is in for some real difficulties. I predict flat hardware and software sales for the next two years as people wait to see what shakes out. I know very little about Rosetta, but I just don't buy that it will be perfectly seamless. Running Classic in OS X was okay, but it wasn't seamless in many cases.

I see many people either holding off on purchases of new Macs for the next year or two, or at best making interim purchases of lower-end consumer Macs to get them through the transition. I have an original G4 Yikes that I have been wanting to replace but for lack of money. At this point, even if I scrape up the cash I think I would rather buy an inexpensive Mac mini to tide me over, even though it is a far cry from the dual 2.7 G5 that (until today), I badly want.

I haven't checked the markets yet, but my prediction is Apple stock slightly down, Intel slightly up.

All in all, while this should have been done years ago, it's perhaps not a bad time for Apple to make the chip switch. If the success of the iPod can hold relatively steady it will give Apple a bit of a cushion with which to weather any transition problems. I'm looking forward to an iPod video and a movie download store in the near future to bolster sales. But the Intel news now means that Apple is going to have to really sell its computers on design and the strength and ease-of-use of its OS. Although many have argued that the different chip architecture between Macs and Wintels meant that many potential switchers believed that Apple was woefully behind in the megahertz war, I think (perhaps incorrectly) that many people did realize that you couldn't just compare clockspeeds to get relative performance numbers. Within two years, however, you will. This might make it more difficult for Apple to sell hardware that, on the outside, appears much more expensive than the cheap offerings from Dell and Gateway.

And how long before someone figures out a way to run OS X on a Dell x86, despite whatever roadblocks Apple/Intel may throw up?
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
I might be over reacting, and I hope I am wrong. I still think we will see a significant drop in Mac sales. Especially since the pro line is priced like it is.

I think so too. Why buy a mac now when this switch is happening in a year?
 
iN8 said:
It won't be obsolete, because they will be using Universal Binaries that run on PPC & Intel. I'm sure Apple will support PPC for the foreseeable future, so you should be ok.
From your mouth to Steves ear. Still, i wished he would have been a bit more specific since he should have known that this announcement would hurt sales. I am cynic which makes me worried when steve don't explictly say that the PPC platform will be supported X years. My question is whether x86 Mac programs will run on PPC... Just that
 
aap said:
Can someone explain exactly why noone should be worried about future software not running on their recently bought 3k+ machine, better than phrases like: "trust apple" "apple knows" or "if it's good enough for steve it's good enough for you"


I for sure havn't heard the steve one (even though thats what some people have been thinking) and i have read all 19 pages of listening to people say oh how horable it will be. I personally think this will come out good.
 
aap said:
Can someone explain exactly why noone should be worried about future software not running on their recently bought 3k+ machine, better than phrases like: "trust apple" "apple knows" or "if it's good enough for steve it's good enough for you"
For one thing, Apple has said they will continue to sell PPC-based machines well into 2007. Until then, they HAVE to support PPC code. That is two years from now.
And even then, what software company in their right mind would release software that would work ONLY on x86-based macs when there are millions of existing ppc-based macs out there.
 
aap said:
Can someone explain exactly why noone should be worried about future software not running on their recently bought 3k+ machine, better than phrases like: "trust apple" "apple knows" or "if it's good enough for steve it's good enough for you"

They should not worry because future software until at least 2008 or 2009 will be available in Universal Binary format which can be run natively on either PPC or Intel based Macs. In reality UB might last much longer....I'm not sure how long Fat Binaries lasted during the 68k->PPC change.
 
Cue said:
To tell you the truth, Im more concerned with the fact that Apple has no new hardware delivered 'till next year's June (heck not even at the end of this year!).

What where they busy doing all this time? Releasing an iPod Shuffle and some minor speeds bumps for all Macs? :/

Yeah, that's my big worry too... 2 things come to mind:

1) Apple have been preparing this for 5 years, since they first launched OSX - I wonder if they haven't done some homework on the hardware too. Meaning it won't take that long before the updates come (new powerbooks for christmas :rolleyes: )...

2) the reason they make the transition now is that, with the economic space they get from iPods and the music store, they can afford a fall in hardware sale now .

oh - and 3) the whole thing seem pretty well timed with my own update needs :D

A
 
leekohler said:
Exactly, that's why people are upset. That's why I'm upset.
Can you run x86 apps on your PPC now (other than through virtual PC or the like)??? Systems change, you have to adapt. Perhaps Apple should have been content waiting on IBM to get off of their butts and upgrade to 3.0 GHz+ like they promised Apple 2 years ago. Come on now!!
 
840quadra said:
Quote:
Abercrombieboy you really, REALLY need to read the kenote coverage, and understand what was said. The main thing that you need to read is what apple said it will be doing to make the change as smooth as possible.


I did read it. I get the idea. It just seems like there are moving pieces and although you feel they have been all answered by Steve I don't feel that way. It seems down the road there could be some issues. Maybe you are all right and no one will ever notice anything, I guess we will see.

Steve has been known to lie as well. About 3 weeks ago he was asked about a possible switch to Intel and he said "NO." He also stated today they will continue to release improved PowerPC products (I think that is a lie as well.) I just hope he is telling us the truth on how easy this is all going to be. Steve can be quite a politician sometimes. ;o)
 
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