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Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]
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I guess how Steve Jobs is going to explain all that ******** now. Oh, yeah, I know: he will not.
(Benchmarks kindly provided by Apple at http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/)
tophat said:
In your case? Will everybody be so kind? Furthermore, there will be a new generation of developers who begin with the Intel machines: small time programmers whose apps become important (a la Adium or others). They won't have legacy PPC machines or code.
I'm not sure if this has been said already, but from Xcode 2.1 on, all compiles will be for both PPC and x86. (That's what I gathered from the Stevenote.) So all new apps will support both PPC and x86 WIHTOUT any translation. All old PPC-only apps will be supported on Intel via translation.mikefl420 said:
In 1983 I used an Apple 2e. Was I angry when Apple introduced the Mac in 1-84?
In 1996 I used a PM8600. In 1997 Apple introduced the G3 -- was I angry?
I currently have a PBG4, but the PowerMacs are now G5 -- am I pissed?
So now Macs will use chips made by Intel. I'm not crying.
The fact is that Steve Jobs had to make a decision: stick with two companies (Moto & IBM) that could not promise him that they could build either superior chips, or competitive chips with what was going to come from Intel or AMD. He made a choice. It's an uncomfortable choice -- but it was probably the only choice.
I've been waiting since December 2003 for a significant upgrade of the "rev. a" G5's. It's been a year and a half and it hasn't come. Guess what . . . it will never come. So, what is Jobs to do? Continue to wait for IBM?
I use a Mac because of its OS -- despite that fact that the hardware is not as fast. What I want is 1) the Mac OS, 2) a good CPU and 3) a good graphics card. I have one of three now -- maybe I'll get two of three in the future. Maybe all three.
In 1996 I used a PM8600. In 1997 Apple introduced the G3 -- was I angry?
I currently have a PBG4, but the PowerMacs are now G5 -- am I pissed?
So now Macs will use chips made by Intel. I'm not crying.
The fact is that Steve Jobs had to make a decision: stick with two companies (Moto & IBM) that could not promise him that they could build either superior chips, or competitive chips with what was going to come from Intel or AMD. He made a choice. It's an uncomfortable choice -- but it was probably the only choice.
I've been waiting since December 2003 for a significant upgrade of the "rev. a" G5's. It's been a year and a half and it hasn't come. Guess what . . . it will never come. So, what is Jobs to do? Continue to wait for IBM?
I use a Mac because of its OS -- despite that fact that the hardware is not as fast. What I want is 1) the Mac OS, 2) a good CPU and 3) a good graphics card. I have one of three now -- maybe I'll get two of three in the future. Maybe all three.
Hmmm...
Well, now I don't feel so badly about my Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 2 a few weeks ago... This thing absolutely CRUSHES the PowerBooks. I just can't WAIT to be able to stick OS X onto this thing and get rid of WinBlows XP! As much as I don't like this decision of Apple's, IBM/Motorola were killing them. BUT, I DO wish they went with AMD instead of Intel. Not only is AMD superior to Intel, but their architecture more closely resembles the PPC's.
Anyways, to the uninformed, this means that PowerBooks will have the Jonah/Yonah chips next year!!! THIS is the great news to me! 64-bit dual-core Pentium-M's! This is what I can't wait for. -JB
Well, now I don't feel so badly about my Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 2 a few weeks ago... This thing absolutely CRUSHES the PowerBooks. I just can't WAIT to be able to stick OS X onto this thing and get rid of WinBlows XP! As much as I don't like this decision of Apple's, IBM/Motorola were killing them. BUT, I DO wish they went with AMD instead of Intel. Not only is AMD superior to Intel, but their architecture more closely resembles the PPC's.
Anyways, to the uninformed, this means that PowerBooks will have the Jonah/Yonah chips next year!!! THIS is the great news to me! 64-bit dual-core Pentium-M's! This is what I can't wait for. -JB
Not all PPC Apps will run on x86
(I did a quick sift and didn't see any mention of this already in the thread)
From Apple's Universal Binary PDF:
What Can Be Translated?
Rosetta is designed to translate currently shipping applications that run on a PowerPC with a G3
processor and that are built for Mac OS X.
Rosetta does not run the following:
- Applications built for Mac OS 8 or 9
- Code written specifically for AltiVec
- Code that inserts preferences in the System Preferences pane
- Applications that require a G4 or G5 processor
- Applications that depend on one or more kernel extensions
- Kernel extensions
- Bundled Java applications or Java applications with JNI libraries that cant be translated
A LOT of apps are going to fall into that list.
(I did a quick sift and didn't see any mention of this already in the thread)
From Apple's Universal Binary PDF:
What Can Be Translated?
Rosetta is designed to translate currently shipping applications that run on a PowerPC with a G3
processor and that are built for Mac OS X.
Rosetta does not run the following:
- Applications built for Mac OS 8 or 9
- Code written specifically for AltiVec
- Code that inserts preferences in the System Preferences pane
- Applications that require a G4 or G5 processor
- Applications that depend on one or more kernel extensions
- Kernel extensions
- Bundled Java applications or Java applications with JNI libraries that cant be translated
A LOT of apps are going to fall into that list.
faintember said:
I'm a producer - I walk into any studio and use what they have or take what they have and use it at my place. I have Cubase, Logic, DP, Pro Tools Waves, NI, Peak etc etc... It will take years for those Dual Binarys and apps to become stable and they won't be free ..... trust me.
For the record - I'm not a fan of Pro Tools but TDM is a standard. Like gas - I'd rather use Hydrogen but I can't find much of it around.
Just for another record. Dr. Lengling and I have talked several times and I've expressed to him how freaking hard it is to use logic - its so polarizing the two; Pro Tools and Logic - Bring Vision back!!! Damn you Gibson Guitars for buy and then killing Opcode just for fun.
People can be frightened of change.
These are the days when new sales of laptops are finally beginning to outpace sales of desktop computers.
This almost HAD to happen, and Apple knew it for years apparently (Marklar.) We should have known it too.
The future of Apple (5-10 yrs, not 1-2) lies in great part with healthy hardware sales. The future is iBook and PowerBook. Be it for technical or financial reasons, IBM was not making the G5 mobile. Supply was not meeting demand. Demand found another solution; a solution that has the perfect fail-safe. If Intel gets moody theres AMD. There was no viable IBM-alternative without a major transition.
Ill wager that we will someday see another Keynote performance match:
PowerMac G6 or X1 5gHz w/ Intellified MacOSX 10.5 Leopard
vs
Dell Dementia P4 5gHz w/ Wronghorn
Watch the Mac smoke the PC at rendering a graphic-intensive document.
Apple always finds a way to provide the best computing experience.
I would certainly peel off any Intel inside Mac sticker. But I might not throw it away.
Thanks Intel. Thanks Steve. You have balls.
Long live MacOS.
These are the days when new sales of laptops are finally beginning to outpace sales of desktop computers.
This almost HAD to happen, and Apple knew it for years apparently (Marklar.) We should have known it too.
The future of Apple (5-10 yrs, not 1-2) lies in great part with healthy hardware sales. The future is iBook and PowerBook. Be it for technical or financial reasons, IBM was not making the G5 mobile. Supply was not meeting demand. Demand found another solution; a solution that has the perfect fail-safe. If Intel gets moody theres AMD. There was no viable IBM-alternative without a major transition.
Ill wager that we will someday see another Keynote performance match:
PowerMac G6 or X1 5gHz w/ Intellified MacOSX 10.5 Leopard
vs
Dell Dementia P4 5gHz w/ Wronghorn
Watch the Mac smoke the PC at rendering a graphic-intensive document.
Apple always finds a way to provide the best computing experience.
I would certainly peel off any Intel inside Mac sticker. But I might not throw it away.
Thanks Intel. Thanks Steve. You have balls.
Long live MacOS.
feffer37 said:Look here, naysayers, none of this can be bad IF....
1. Apple still controls it's own hardware design
2. Apple still controls it's own OS design
When 95% of us buys a computer on today's market, it's for the Operating System, NOT the type of hardware it runs on. OSX still crushes any other OS for 95% of all user needs out there. It doesn't matter WHO makes the chips, as long as it's up to Apple's Standards.
If apple starts to farm out however, well, let's just trust that doesn't happen
Personally, I'm hoping that a cooler chip + faster clockspeed x recent apple patents = that OSX tablet I dream about every night
Yes and within a week of it's release, the Linux guys will have it figured out. I BOUGHT a PowerPC because I wanted to get off the damn CPU treadmill. Sure, there may not be a 3 GHz G5, but WHO CARES! The G5 can STILL blow the doors off all PC's but the tippest of the top and the only ones who want/need those is the Gamerz. I am disappointed in you Apple. You STILL have the best platform, but when the Mac is just a proprietary PC, what other point is there to buy one? Who is to say that those same open source people you supposedly embrace won't do you in and make it so any crappy PC can run Leopard??
Granted, Mac OS X is the best OS for alot of people and that includes me. I will likely stay in the fold, but at some point, there has to be something that truly differentiates the Mac from a PC OTHER than OS. Now besides a proprietary BIOS, there will be nothing else that makes it different. The minute I find a Linux program for editing video that does at least as good as iMovie, I may consider another switch....but that may take a long time!
You've hit the nail on the head... whatever the fastest speeds of the G4 and G5 are now, is as fast as they will EVER be. (I'm assuming that IBM/Motorola are contractually bound to keep supplying the chips for as long as Apple needs them, so the supply line shouldn't dry up before the IntelMacs come out.)Mr Maui said:My comment is in reference to Steve Jobs saying that there are PowerPC updates in the pipeline. The minimal comment was in reference to the fact that IBM has ZERO incentive to update or upgrade anything for Apple anymore.
Balin64 said:
You know - the best part of the news is that you don't need to buy your software again - because of Rosetta. It will run just fine on an Intel Mac.
No worries!
I doubt that Apple will be able to charge the same premium as they do today. The only difference is going to be the OS and the Apple ROM. MS will have a field day when they say Longhorn is $200 and OSX is $129+$500 in premium.B-52 Macer said:
Just got off the phone with apple store
Guy> Which order?
Me > Powerbook 15" 1.67 + SuperDrive.
Guy> Why do you want to cancel the order sir?
Me > Because of the keynote? this thing will be worthless in a year and companies will not support it anymore
Guy> *silence.... not able to say much*
Guy> *silence.... not able to say much*
Guy> Ok sir, check the OrderStatus page, your order has been canceled, *throws the phone down, not even waiting for me to confirm the cancellation*
my $2500 saved!
Guy> Which order?
Me > Powerbook 15" 1.67 + SuperDrive.
Guy> Why do you want to cancel the order sir?
Me > Because of the keynote? this thing will be worthless in a year and companies will not support it anymore
Guy> *silence.... not able to say much*
Guy> *silence.... not able to say much*
Guy> Ok sir, check the OrderStatus page, your order has been canceled, *throws the phone down, not even waiting for me to confirm the cancellation*
my $2500 saved!
elmimmo said:
I guess how Steve Jobs is going to explain all that ******** now. Oh, yeah, I know: he will not.
(Benchmarks kindly provided by Apple at http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/)
he won't have to, Especially if the new Powermacs run on DUAL 64bit Xenon processors, at or above 3 GHZ.
clayj said:
Not massively disagreeing here, I just said some of us feared it.
I was always an Apple devotee in waiting. Amiga owner over the IBM platform until it died and then when I had a PC I went AMD before Intel.
IMO this is entirely about the powerbooks. And I can see that Intel may have solved that problem for Jobs.
I just hope we don't end up with Mactels being expensive consumer items running an OS that you can sling on your Dell cheap as chips box - that makes Apple a Maybach and not a BMW.
I look forward to Jobs' interviews in the coming weeks where he tells us the megahertz myth and the superior altivec PPC chip was a mistake... in the meantime I'll just look upset when Intel owners say "see, it was a lie" and hope that the sales don't dry up as we wait for Steve to fluff his bottom line for the shareholders.
And just for fun this...
"o a different group of people start to move up. And who usually ends up running the show? The sales guy. John Akers at IBM (IBM ) is the consummate example. Then one day, the monopoly expires for whatever reason. But by then the best product people have left, or they're no longer listened to. And so the company goes through this tumultuous time, and it either survives or it doesn't.
Q: Is this common in the industry?
A: Look at Microsoft (MSFT ) -- who's running Microsoft?
Q: Steve Ballmer.
A: Right, the sales guy. Case closed. And that's what happened at Apple, as well."
Jobs on "what went wrong" at Apple.
Hey, is it true or confirmed BTW that Rosetta is QuickTransit, or is it something different?CmdrLaForge said:
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