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Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]

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Fraize said:
I'm sure I'm just feeding a troll, but come on, guy! What difference does it bloody make if it's PowerPC or x86? You should see the power of Macs going up while the price of them goes down! How could this be in any way a bad thing?
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It makes a huge difference! I work with simulation codes and as far as I have seen the current pentium processors DO NOT cut it in terms of performance! My Dual G5 2.0 stomps the ground with the fastest P4s even when utilizing only a single processor. It would do even better if I could find the time to optimize it for PowerPC features such as DST and Vec.

x86 is a pathetic architecture.
 
BlairMALL said:
Yes, my thoughts exactly. I would like an honest/simple explanation of what we can expect as far as the future of software on the PPC G5 variety. I really want to buy and Apple. I think the experience is unmatched. I've looked at Dells and will never go that route.
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Because I am sure that the people that work for Apple, and for the Apple software developers want to keep their current jobs.

If apple doesn't work hard to support current and recent hardware, they will alienate diehard apple users, and the people that support them.
 
jZilla said:
Dell-type scenario - ie all about the bottom line. Many of us like a company that was the BMW of the industry rather than the Ford.
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Just remember however...Ford does own companies like Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover that are very comparable to a BMW in performance and quality...not that I am suggesting Dell will own Apple someday...

(does that idea give anyone else nightmares???);o)
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
LMAO.....funny. It somehow captures how I feel right now. I wonder how Apple is going about asking for a hefty premium on their computers now, since they basically will be just as all other computers.
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Nope, they will run Mac OS X which no other computer will.
 
iMeowbot said:
The Apple II and the toy Commodores had the same CPU.
The original Mac and the toy Ataris had the same CPU.
The current Mac and the toy Xbox 360 have the same CPU.
And now, the new Macs and the toy peecees will have the same CPU.

Somebody's got to show those toys how to act when they grow up :D
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The Atari's weren't toys, sorry to burst your bubble. They had a 68000 processor, same as the Mac, either 512kb or 1mb RAM, color display (640x480, I _think_, but I may be wrong), and the ability to run either PC or Mac apps with an expansion card. They also had built-in midi ports. Musicians were using them until at least 1995-ish. (We got our Atari 1040ST w/1mb RAM in 1985, if memory serves, may have been '86, and the last time I remember seeing Atari ST's being sold was in music-related magazines I read during my senior year of high school, 1995).

They were much more popular overseas than they were in the states. I think the association with Atari 2600's made people think they were toys, so people didn't take them seriously.
 
noel4r said:
Men, I just bought a Dual 1.8 I thought that's gonna last me at least 3 years. Now what?
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Now sit back and enjoy it because it WILL last you three years. :)
 
BlairMALL said:
Yes, my thoughts exactly. I would like an honest/simple explanation of what we can expect as far as the future of software on the PPC G5 variety. I really want to buy and Apple. I think the experience is unmatched. I've looked at Dells and will never go that route.
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Long time Mac users have been through this before. It was painless, honestly. The biggest problem was getting smaller developers to add PowerPC support so we wouldn't have to run in emulation forever, not getting them to keep 68K compatibility!
 
Anyone who thinks the Xbox 360 is a toy doesn't understand consoles. Between them, Sony, Nintendo, and MS are making far more money on their machines than Apple is. I don't even like Microsoft or the Xbox and I can see that.
 
So the Rosetta stone will run PPC aps as good as ...say ... VPC run XP apps on a PPC? Terrible.

I guess I wont bother buying Tiger at this point and wait until I can load it onto my Fujitsu.

And for those saying I cant be or wont be done, talk to the guy dual booting to BSD and Linux on his xBox.
 
iMeowbot said:
Long time Mac users have been through this before. It was painless, honestly. The biggest problem was getting smaller developers to add PowerPC support so we wouldn't have to run in emulation forever, not getting them to keep 68K compatibility!
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Exactly! Look at the history and rejoice. Back then it worked smoothless. It really did. There's not reason to think it won't work this tima around.
 
Jesus said:
look, i like the idea of fast, cheap intels in macs as long as os x stays exclusive, but i have 2 negative points about intels:

1. they can't multitask for sh**

2. the pipelines are too long, so pentiums for example are marketing chips (i.e. they are designed to have a high ghz so intel can go 'look at us with are warp-speed chips') and long piplines are a serious bottle-neck in a system.

3. arn't the 32 bit, not 64 bit like the G5

just my opinion

of course, intel could be fabbing some new x86 chips for apple that have shorter pipelines and 64 bit.


Jesus
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1. They can multitask. Just that Windows has a different way of distributing processing power, and it's not like Macs.

2. The Pentium M does not have as long a pipeline as the P4. They have fixed this problem, and they are now changing their position on the megahertz myth. It's a very different Intel these days thanks to the Israeli team.

3. Pentium chips are now 64-bit as well. By the time that Apple starts transitioning next year, most of Intels chips should be 64-bit. Not that it really matters, but they have that checkbox feature.
 
jZilla said:
here's the point. Some of us like the "different" bit of "Think Different".

That doesn't mean "no way Intel" it means we are concerned that Jobs is creeping towards a Dell-type scenario - ie all about the bottom line. Many of us like a company that was the BMW of the industry rather than the Ford.
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OK, but how long has it been since Apple used "Think Different"? I certainly don't remember seeing any of these ads for quite a long time now.

And in case you hadn't noticed, Apple is a publicly-traded company... so Jobs and Co. HAVE to care about the bottom line, and the bottom line is that IBM and Motorola were not delivering what the Mac needs if it is to continue to evolve. Intel can do this.

And lest you forget, BMW has create lower-priced cars in order to compete with other car companies... neither they nor Apple exist in a vacuum. You can have all the quality you want, but if you're too expensive or if your goods show signs that they have gone as far as they can (as has happened with the Powerbook line), you have to make a decision: adapt or die.
 
jZilla said:
here's the point. Some of us like the "different" bit of "Think Different".

That doesn't mean "no way Intel" it means we are concerned that Jobs is creeping towards a Dell-type scenario - ie all about the bottom line. Many of us like a company that was the BMW of the industry rather than the Ford.
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Just because it has an Intel chip, dosen't mean it is an other x86 clone. There is still room for apple to do unique and "diifferent" with an intel chip. The reason others don't do this, is because their systems wouldn't run Windows, or many versions of linux.

Did you know that there are PowerPC G4 and G5 systems that do not support OS X, and are made by other computer companies? Apple can do the same with the intel chips, making a system that is all in all pure Apple.
 
kikuchiyo said:
Anyone who thinks the Xbox 360 is a toy doesn't understand consoles. Between them, Sony, Nintendo, and MS are making far more money on their machines than Apple is. I don't even like Microsoft or the Xbox and I can see that.
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The XBox 360 is being designed as much more than a mere gaming console. Microsoft is making in a multimedia machine capable of many things, including High Def video playback, internet access and gaming, to name a few.
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
I am not in the market for a new Mac right now. I am happy with my trusty PM G4. What worries me is that most people will hold their shopping until the new chips are out. That will hurt Apple bad since 47% of their profit comes from computer sales.
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I think you're right. Rather than speculate, we KNOW this is happening. So why not wait a while?
 
Mr Maui said:
The XBox 360 is being designed as much more than a mere gaming console. Microsoft is making in a multimedia machine capable of many things, including High Def video playback, internet access and gaming, to name a few.
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Thank's for the school lesson, Mr Maui, I really needed to learn that. :p

As is the PS3. The only thing that looks to remain a traditional console is the Big N's Revolution (thank god).
 
kikuchiyo said:
I call BS: the developers would still need at least a PPC and an Intel machine to bug test and develop. That's already double the amount of hardware they need now. Plus you can't simply recompile complex software. Portions (not whole programs, but parts) will have to be rewritten.
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Obviously you are not a software developer. We do have our PPC systems now and we will keep them for testing for many, many years. After the previous transition (68K->PPC) we delivered fat binaries for ages - in our case it lasted 8 years.
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
Or it could be that they can see that the current line will be hard to sell
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Or perhaps they are still trying to digest what it means as a whole and the jury is still out on the matter. With no clear answers yet, the stock will adjust itself accordingly. When the boxes start to ship and the machines are a success, Apple will continue to drag in the money hand over fist.
 
leekohler said:
Remember when Apple said they would continue to develop OS 9 after OS X? That little statement proved to be false real quick.
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Actually, in a weird, roundabout way they did and are: If I remember correctly 9.2.2 came out after X was released. And, if you look at the system files on the "Classic" CD that comes with your Mac, there are some tweaks Apple has added long after OS9 was a running operating system rather than an emulated environment.

I know what you mean though, and I suppose a shift to x86 might "break" classic alltogether. Someone should see if they can run Adobe Streamline on Steve's P4 that he used for the presentation today...
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
Or it could be that they can see that the current line will be hard to sell
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Yup... a lot of people who might have been thinking about buying a Mac will probably wait for the new IntelMacs to come out. This is a prime example of the old "the next version will do everything you want / oh, I was going to buy the current version, but I guess I'll wait" situation. Change involves pain; in this case, Apple will suffer the pain of lower sales during the transition, and developers will suffer the pain of having to convert their code to work on the new hardware.
 
On the bright side, if any of us long time Apple users gets lonely for a PowerPC chip after Mac has gone to Intel, you can buy a Microsoft xBox 360.
 
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